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  1. Back To Top | #1

    Default Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Hi Everyone,

    After 10 years in the lifestyle and several playmates I still have problems getting the ole boy erect 50% of the time. It seems to be more situation related than about the girl. As the girl can get a rise out of me in the club or on the couch, but the second clothes come off I lose it or cannot get it up. Even though I am totally into the girl and totally into what's going on and what my wife is doing...NO GO. If the girl hangs in there eventually I can come around but even then, it's mostly physical, my head is still freaking out. In fact I have gotten to the point where I know if it's me or if I'm just not into the girl. Most of the time it's me.

    I have come to realize that I have been putting AROUSAL ahead of RELAXATION and that clothes have been coming off way too fast for my comfort level. The successes I have had were phenomenal experiences but what worked for one did not work for the other, all they had in common were things took their time and we went at a natural pace. So I get that I have some direction to go in resolving this issue.

    Drug assistance is OUT OF THE QUESTION - I refuse. I have no problems on my own or with my wife, so I want to figure out how to do this on my own so I know it's genuine.

    My question to the ladies...and stories of your experiences are WELCOME PLEASE...what do YOU want to hear from your swapped partner when they cannot get it up?

    It's terribly embarrassing yet I REFUSE TO GIVE UP. It's not about the girl, but I know human tendency is to blame ourselves and I know the girl won't help but take it personally. I've been learning what to say but thought I would be brave and throw it out there. So have at it...
    Steve

    "Relaxation over Arousal"

  2. Back To Top | #2

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    I'm not a lady, Steve, so I'll leave it to them to say what they want to hear. I believe you're onto something with "relaxation over arousal." I find it works best if we quit trying to get it up. I ask her to lie on her stomach while I give her a back massage. I try to be gentle and as non-sexual as possible except to occasionally caress the sides of her breasts. It usually works.

    Alura
    "They may call me a rube and a hick, but I'd a lot rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it."
    óWill Rogers

  3. Back To Top | #3

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    The back massage does work wonders in one of our relationships where the chemistry with my partner runs its course quickly after having sex the first time but still have a few days together. My wife has great chem. with her swapping partner so I have to find ways to make it work with mine as I want my wife to have fun too. Of course next time we will be dialing down the sex until we're at a level that we can both enjoy.

    Thanks for your comments Alura - even though you are not a lady. ;-)
    Steve

    "Relaxation over Arousal"

  4. Back To Top | #4

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    As the lady, I'd prefer to have you say "I'd rather take things slow as it makes my penis work better" than to get naked and have issues. You sound like you know your body and the situations that will lead to issues, so as a woman I'd rather you avoid them.

    That said, if I'm naked with a guy who can't get it up, I'd rather him say "why don't you lay back and relax and let me focus on you", than to try to explain why his equipment isn't working, or tell me "oh this never happens..."
    The Swinger Manual - all the info from the Swingers Board in one convenient book

  5. Back To Top | #5

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Going slow and keeping clothes on until you are aroused seems to help. Also, you might consider dialing back the long-term (days/whole weekend) playtime. That just seems like too much for your situation.

    What do I like to hear? If you know something that will help, tell me. It's fine to say you are a little jittery or nervous. Don't beat yourself up or complain about the issue. Also, in my case, I'm fine if you want to stroke yourself. Your own hand and stepping into your own imagination is often quite effective. Since this is a regular friend for you, I would ask her.

  6. Back To Top | #6

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    I don't mind hearing 'sometimes i get a bit stressed' and i understand. I love to blow Pete when he's not hard as I feel like I am making out with his cock-- he gets lots of sensation and loves it too. And then of course a lot of the time things 'wake up' again and we're happy campers. I like the idea about massage too. Pete eats me a lot to get himself re-hard. Ebb and flow.
    loves2lovepr
    we've only just begun

  7. Back To Top | #7
    Swingers Board Addict DigginIt's Avatar
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    DigginIt

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Drinnt - what is the big aversion to an erectile drug. I think I saw you post something similar elsewhere. You said you have no issues at the club, etc. with getting hard from being turned on but as soon as the clothes come off, the trouble begins. With the exception of the last three couples (by the way, all lifestylers for a couple years +), every guy, and I mean EVERY guy, had performance issues with Mrs. Diggs. Not, one or two but ALL of them. My thoughts about this are that people who are new, have these issues. I believe it takes the body awhile to adjust and get used to the amount of overstimulation that takes place while swinging.

    With all the issues my wife had, she doesn't want to hear an excuse. It sounds kind of bitchy, I know, but let's look at it from a different perspective. You haven't played with a couple in a month or so and you meet a couple, all click, you go out and the guy can't get hard. You leave disappointed even if you had fun other ways, it's still a little bit of a let down. Another 4 or 5 weeks pass, meet a couple, get to the room and the guy can't get it up. After a few times, you are 4 months down the road and the sex hasn't been that great. It's extremely frustrating for the girls when there is a way you could have prevented a let down.

    When you are meeting a couple, they could have chose another couple but they chose you. You should be doing everything and anything to make sure that night goes smoothly. You commented on a post earlier about a woman that had three bad experiences in a row. I'll say that this is very, very, common in our experience, especially with new people.

    We went out with a couple about a year ago, the guy was 34 and he was boasting through dinner how he has never needed to take an ED drug. His exact words were something like..."I don't need that shit, I never have erection problems" Let's just say I'm sure he felt pretty silly sitting there with my wife while I was having sex with his wife. If there is an attraction, Mrs. Diggs is all about continuing to try and not give up and she will not call it quits just because the guy can't perform. She will continue to try and get them up, be encouraging but when we leave, she will be like..."scratch them off the list" meaning for repeat encounters.

    I like the things you post and this really isn't a knock so hope you don't take it that way. I'm posting it for all readers and not directly at you but I believe, as a swinger, I owe it to any potential couple we play with to ensure that I'm doing everything I can to make sure the night goes well.

  8. Back To Top | #8

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    First of all thank you ALL for your comments so far. I have found them to be insightful and helpful with the introspection I've been engaged with. Ultimately...I still feel new at this. We've only had full swap with 5 couples and soft swap with 2 couples over the years. 2011 / 2012 are the 2 most active years we've had so all the issues we've experienced over the past 10 years off and on are coming at us very quickly now...and we're taking them ON!

    DigginIt, no offense AT ALL. My swing "buddy" of 8 years who is a doctor takes Cialis. He says it will NOT help with the head, if the head is not in the game the drug has no chance. We've had nights on the last 2 visits where his wife and I are up and at it while he was unable...then next day he's off to the races and I'm lagging. Yes I get the psychological implications there *wink*. I have tried it...once...years ago. Did NOTHING for me. Maybe I could give it another go...but really what I want is to work this stuff out for real.

    Consider there is more on the table in this issue than just a hard cock. I can take a pill and blow through these encounters, assuming the pill will work. But what I really want is to figure out where our comfort zone is. I just had a breakthrough today in realizing that I have a huge issue surrounding the fear of rejection and how different personalities play on that with me. It comes to play NOT just in the sex. It comes to play in my relationship with my wife, in our swinger relationships, in my reactions to our interactions with our swinger friends and seems to be present on many other levels as well. If I take a pill, I might be able to have sex but I WON'T be working out the TRUE ISSUES that will make or break this lifestyle for us.

    So bottom line is. I need to work this out because even though it may be showing itself in the ED, it is also something that affects the relationships too. I fix it for one issue, I fix it for all issues. Best I know, no pill can do that. FYI - wife and I are in FULL communication on this. I'm not going it alone.

    As far as the experiences I am providing for some of the ladies. Yes, I do feel bad and responsible for some of what they are feeling. Ultimately though we are all responsible for our choices and our emotions. I have been with girls that couldn't relax - told me so - and I was forced to choose between thinking I was not good in bed or they just couldn't relax. The next time I was with them, they relaxed and came and came. I fully accept that to some couples we may be (and have been) a stepping stone. What goes around, comes around. I'm happy to help someday if I am in a position to be a little more understanding if for nothing else than to pass on the appreciation for what I have learned and been through along the way.
    Steve

    "Relaxation over Arousal"

  9. Back To Top | #9

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustAskJulie View Post
    As the lady, I'd prefer to have you say "I'd rather take things slow as it makes my penis work better" than to get naked and have issues. You sound like you know your body and the situations that will lead to issues, so as a woman I'd rather you avoid them.

    That said, if I'm naked with a guy who can't get it up, I'd rather him say "why don't you lay back and relax and let me focus on you", than to try to explain why his equipment isn't working, or tell me "oh this never happens..."
    I will not be getting naked any more unless I am relaxed about it, that is for sure. Possibly not until I'm aroused either. I've had situations where I've been aroused and the girl undressed me and it was AWESOME when it popped out for her. All the other times I realized that when I revealed a limp noodle it just pushed me farther down into my situation.

    And I do give them the royal treatment when I cannot roll out the carpet. ;-)
    Steve

    "Relaxation over Arousal"

  10. Back To Top | #10
    Swingers Board Addict DigginIt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Hey Steve, I totally get that. If it's in the head, your right, the pill isn't going to do much but if you can perform well with your wife, then I don't think it's a psychological issue, but more of an anxiety issue and that should be able to be helped with a pill. If you just tried the pill one time, I would highly recommend trying all three to see which works best for you. Viagra didn't do squat for me until like 8 hours later when I work up, lol. I worry that the more times you have problems, the problem is just going to get harder to overcome.

    I totally respect where you are coming from and you sincerely want to work through this and get to that point where it works like you expect it, lol. An underlying point I was trying to make but didn't put out there as clearly as I would have liked is that, in swinging, you may not get a second chance to make an impression. We are looking for friends and I think we are more of the type willing to give a second chance but everything else about the night would have to be exceptional because at this point, we have a few couples that we see regularly and when we don't see them, we try to meet new couples and that time is limited. We have to make the decision, do we give couple A another shot or do we try couple B.

    As a final note, I didn't mean to make you feel bad. It's how you handle the situation that's ultimately important, do you get frustrated and give up or do you keep trying and ensure that the lady you are with is still having a good time and it sounds like that is what you do. When we play, we are genuinely concerned about the other couples good time and Mrs. Diggs will go above and beyond to help her partner overcome any obstacles, lol, and I do mean above and beyond but it's also a blow to her ego as much as the other persons. That's what's disappointing.

  11. Back To Top | #11
    Sunny...For Your Pleasure sunbuckus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    drinnt,

    Interesting post! From my limited experiences, it seems to happen more often than men would like to admit and it's okay. Our first swing experience, my playmate had to rub himself back to arousal a few times. Of course, it could have been that he already played twice earlier than night (we were at a party) or it was the alcohol effect. Sometimes, it can be stress or fatigue. And perhaps it can be a the level of relaxation (as you mentioned) or trust.

    At our recent swing experience (another party), my last play partner for the night was ready to go but then a friend came over to him to whisper in his ear while he was performing oral on me. He lost all concentration and couldn't become aroused again even though I did what I could to get him excited again. He was pretty disappointed in himself but I tried to reassure him that it didn't bother me and that we could always play the next time we see each other. What would I have wanted to hear? He pretty much said everything he could have to make me feel that it wasn't me (he found me to be the most attractive woman at the party, etc.) Of course, if I didn't find him attractive or he was off putting in personality (like blaming me for his non-arousal), I wouldn't give him a second chance.

    As for taking vitamin V (as Mr. Sunbuckus likes to call it), do give it another try, as someone else has suggested. Mr. Sunbuckus has told me that it won't work unless both heads are into the game. He takes it for stamina reasons. Usually, he's a one shot man and it allows him to play more than usual which I like because after a party or swing experience, I like to take my final ride on him.

  12. Back To Top | #12

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Yepper; Vitamin "V" doesn't do a thing unless you're in the mood mentally. When I take one, I'm good to go, and then if something interrupts the thought process, it's a no-go until I get my mind off the exotic car or plane that happens to grab my attention. Some folks are under the impression that once you take one, you're off to the races.. not so much.. Like coaches always preach... "Get you mind in the game"!!

  13. Back To Top | #13

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by drinnt View Post
    I have come to realize that I have been putting AROUSAL ahead of RELAXATION and that clothes have been coming off way too fast for my comfort level. The successes I have had were phenomenal experiences but what worked for one did not work for the other, all they had in common were things took their time and we went at a natural pace.
    For me, you are hitting the key part when you talk about a natural pace. The only difficulty I have experienced has been when things progressed faster than the natural pace. In one case, the way that events had transpired almost by chance, the spouses had spent more time together before myself and my playmate had really had much of a chance to get acquainted. We had to some degree, since we both knew we were good to go, but less than usual. Once they got the go-ahead that all were good, the other two went into high gear pretty fast but my trusty gear shift wasn't ready for overdrive yet, which was a first for me. It is extremely frustrating, and the harder you try, the worse it gets. Everything turned out well though, and the pacing was key - even though it was a same room experience and we were all on one bed, once me and her stopped trying to play catch-up and took the time to settle into our own pace (at her wise suggestion, obviously this wasn't the first time she had dealt with the problem) with some pillow talk and more foreplay even though the others were well beyond that phase right beside us, then in short order everything started working just fine and dandy.

    Based on that experience, maybe the problem is you are trying to match your pace too much to your wife's? Have you tried separate rooms, or if y'all aren't comfortable with that, at least something with more separation to let your and your playmates pace develop on it's own working off of cues from just each other and not others in the room?

    As sort of a related question, when you do get hard, do you ejaculate? That is where I have difficulty, and again it's pace. I aim to please, and so I certainly don't want to come too early, and when you are with someone new you have little to no idea of what sort of pace they want, for how long, and when and how they want it to end. Throw in the decreased sensitivity with condoms, and the anxiety that I would much rather error on the side of not coming at all versus too early, and that is one I struggle with. When or even if she tells you she is ready, then it's hard to just do a 180 on something you have been doing your damndest to not even think about up until that point. Me and the Mrs. have 20+ years of learning our rhythm and pace, and when you get out of that, then your body just doesn't respond in typical ways always.

  14. Back To Top | #14

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by sunbuckus View Post
    drinnt,
    As for taking vitamin V (as Mr. Sunbuckus likes to call it), do give it another try, as someone else has suggested. Mr. Sunbuckus has told me that it won't work unless both heads are into the game. He takes it for stamina reasons. Usually, he's a one shot man and it allows him to play more than usual which I like because after a party or swing experience, I like to take my final ride on him.
    Thank you Mrs. Sunbucks for your candid and honest reply. I am finding more and more that it is VERY common. There seems to be a correlation between the experience level and the performance level. I find that when people are new to the lifestyle it's very exciting and everything is arousing. Then you go through a few relationship growing pains in your marriage or in dealing with another couple and emotions come into it. Depending on the people involved and the issues at play these head games can do numbers on arousal - and the feeling of safety required to become aroused. Then as we get more experience and work these issues out over time the REAL EXPERIENCE sets in and things hopefully get easier. I will not give up!

    The irony is I currently have NO stamina problems. I can go 2-3 times in a day/night. I can go twice a day for 3-4 days in a row under the right circumstances. I can even get hard again within 5-30 minutes and fuck for an hour with or without coming. When both my heads are in the game I can be a real champ. I desperately look forward to the day I can clear my head enough to share this with the world! LOL

    My learning path is showing me that both heads must be in the game. And despite my desire to responsibly unleash my mushroom headed friend upon our cohorts I must bow to the shackling wisdom of my hairy dome and figure out where these two great minds need to meet in the middle to make this a "go". My wife and I are in constant contact and agree that we need to step back, focus on us and go with situations that we are both VERY EXCITED about. Try to follow the "exciting vibe" that got us in this in the firstplace. We feel that we have been pushing ourselves too hard just for the sake of swinging. Wrong reasons. I think we are on to something!
    Steve

    "Relaxation over Arousal"

  15. Back To Top | #15

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by cplnuswing View Post
    Based on that experience, maybe the problem is you are trying to match your pace too much to your wife's? Have you tried separate rooms, or if y'all aren't comfortable with that, at least something with more separation to let your and your playmates pace develop on it's own working off of cues from just each other and not others in the room?

    As sort of a related question, when you do get hard, do you ejaculate? That is where I have difficulty, and again it's pace. I aim to please, and so I certainly don't want to come too early, and when you are with someone new you have little to no idea of what sort of pace they want, for how long, and when and how they want it to end. Throw in the decreased sensitivity with condoms, and the anxiety that I would much rather error on the side of not coming at all versus too early, and that is one I struggle with. When or even if she tells you she is ready, then it's hard to just do a 180 on something you have been doing your damndest to not even think about up until that point. Me and the Mrs. have 20+ years of learning our rhythm and pace, and when you get out of that, then your body just doesn't respond in typical ways always.
    Hi cplnuswing. Thanks for the reply. Natural pace is key. Ideally my wife and I would like to be equally into our prey so that WE (she and I) are good to go and the only "pace" that needs to be set is with the other couple. That has only happened to us twice, so we know it when we see it. Where we run into trouble is when one of us is more into their swing partner than the other. Some times I can use my wife's pace as a turn on, sometimes it's a distraction. What that boils down to for me is that when my wife and I are at different paces I need to step back with my partner and go at mine. As long as my wife and I are both playing at the same time I have no problem with same room, different room...she has sex twice, I have it once...whatever...play time is play time. Our problems arise when one of us engages in play time when we don't really feel like it. For me it's been about getting in touch with the "not really feeling like it" part and being honest about it. Up to this point I have prescribed to the idea of "there are titties in my face and I am a man so I should be HARD". That has become so not the case anymore. I have seen soooooooo much T&A, my wife is pretty wild so she gets people whipped up very easily...so we have had a lot of flirty fun. For me hard on = sex. I used to be at the point where I could approach every titty flash as a *chance* that sex might ensue - even if the couples were a total mis-match...it would trigger my arousal response because I would equate that with "you might get sex". Now I'm so desensitized to that stimuli I really only find myself getting aroused when there is a REAL chance of sex. Truth be told that window is pretty damn small for us...it has to be just right.

    So now I'm on a mission to gather all I have learned in the lifestyle and put it into practice through relaxation and having FUN!!! Sex will come when sex comes. The less I think about it the more free my body will be to react. Maybe I'll even get back that old feeling of arousal just by virtue of seeing someone's awesome titties!

    When I get hard...if my partner is performing a sex act on my penis I approach it from a place of - "hey don't taunt the camel if you don't want to get spit on!". I will come, I will not hold myself back...if I am up and my cock is getting some action then I will see it through. Now I don't HAVE to come. I've had my cock sucked plenty just for the fun of it, foreplay, teasing...and that is just fine. I enjoy that too. But no, I don't "hold myself" back from coming. I also do not employ the "distraction technique". I focus every fiber of my being on the act of sex with my partner because I want to give them all I've got. I have learned over the years that the best sex comes from being 100% present to the act and throwing myself fully into it. I might come in 30 seconds, I might come in 30 minutes...over exert myself in a position...lose my erection for a minute as blood rushes to my cramping abs or legs...recover and get back to it. I have no particular recipe for when and/or if I ejaculate, no. Especially with new partners. I let nature take its course. All I'm going for is success and follow through. If my partner liked it / me then we can get to know each other's natural rhythms over time.

    I will say that I have had some MEAN MOTHER FUCKING ORGASMS during swapped sex. Some of the best actually come from a partner that oddly enough I'm "not that in to" and often have delay getting aroused with. That is a head scratcher, but when we do get it to go off - the world moves a little out of orbit. Thing is it's 90% physical and 10% "other stuff". I like more "other stuff" because it turns me on when a girl shows me she is into me in more ways than just giving me their body as a play toy. I really get off on emotions. Not lovey dovey stuff...but REAL and GENUINE emotions. Sometimes I will have heart to heart conversations with my wife, they will be of a serious tone where we are admitting our true feelings on a topic like how we feel about our friends or maybe I'll admit my position on something that I never really shared out of fear of her reaction and I'll actually get hard from her acceptance of those emotions. Fucking weird ass shit we learn in this game, aint it?
    Steve

    "Relaxation over Arousal"

  16. Back To Top | #16

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    ok...

    a) viagra/cialis will not make you have an erection if you are nt aroused. it simply keeps those fun little brain "holy shit" stress/new situation/etc chemicals from interfering.

    b) if a guy im with cant get it up, i dont need to talk about it. we both it happened, move on. maybe we can go back to other things till he gets up again. if he can't, i nicely say it happens, no worries, and we move on.

    c)seriously, get over the concept that it's not "genuine" if you take a little blue pill.

  17. Back To Top | #17

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Also lay off the booze before playtime...


    Jose Cuervo has ruined more than one moment for me during playtime......

  18. Back To Top | #18

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Don't try to be a hero....I have no toubles with my wife but sometimes at a party I may feel some pressure. I started using a supplement or some prescription for the positive results. Since then I don't go to a party without it......still don't use it at home, but when the time is upon you at a party why not have a little turbo boost. After all it's not just about you, it's also about making your partner have a good time too....

  19. Back To Top | #19

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Ah Steve , you are mixing up the symptom and the problem.

    The problem is that you are not enjoying what you are (usually) doing. Your natural inclinations are (seemingly) more inline with a slower , more natural gradual seduction theme and pacing. Kind of like a kinky , multipartner vanilla hot date. You're trying to force yourself into a situation outside of your inclinations.

    *Sometimes* pushing beyond usual boundries revs things up. *Sometimes* it just leaves you feeling out of bounds. But trying to press on when it is clearly not your cup of tea , just sets up self reinforcing frustration.

    There is no right or wrong ways of ( having fun , that also includes other people and often sex) . The spectrum in endless. Emphasis is on Fun , not how *everybody else* goes about it.

    Take a break. Wait until you really really want to try somthing new. Then instead of trying the same things you guys were trying before , do things differently. *Probably this means more focused on fewer people, going slower , aand building more of a rapport , and graduly getting physical. That's probably not the typical Club or party scene, but so what. Do you nd your wife enjoy , don't obsess over fitting into preconcieved niches.

  20. Back To Top | #20

    Default Re: Ladies: What do you want to hear when I cannot get it up?

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Passing By View Post
    Ah Steve , you are mixing up the symptom and the problem.

    The problem is that you are not enjoying what you are (usually) doing. Your natural inclinations are (seemingly) more inline with a slower , more natural gradual seduction theme and pacing. Kind of like a kinky , multipartner vanilla hot date. You're trying to force yourself into a situation outside of your inclinations.

    *Sometimes* pushing beyond usual boundries revs things up. *Sometimes* it just leaves you feeling out of bounds. But trying to press on when it is clearly not your cup of tea , just sets up self reinforcing frustration.

    There is no right or wrong ways of ( having fun , that also includes other people and often sex) . The spectrum in endless. Emphasis is on Fun , not how *everybody else* goes about it.

    Take a break. Wait until you really really want to try somthing new. Then instead of trying the same things you guys were trying before , do things differently. *Probably this means more focused on fewer people, going slower , aand building more of a rapport , and graduly getting physical. That's probably not the typical Club or party scene, but so what. Do you nd your wife enjoy , don't obsess over fitting into preconcieved niches.
    Hi Just Passing By,

    Thank you so much for what you wrote. My wife and I have grown in leaps and bounds since first posting this thread not too long ago. We have been experimenting in the bedroom with me taking control and saying / doing what I want and like. It has been nothing short of amazing and the place we've ended up is just short of full blown BDSM.

    How does this relate?

    Well I never have erection problems with my wife. However I noticed my erections were virtually instantaneous when I would express myself assertively and passionately. This shocked me. It's like I knew I always WANTED to be THAT GUY but I never thought I had it in me. It was with this self-expression and the results that came from it that led to a huge breakthrough in my extramarital rationale.

    One other thing I have never been is FULLY SELF EXPRESSED. Just as you say I KNEW I was out of my element but I didn't WANT to be. So instead of sharing that with my wife and play buddies I just went along for the ride all the while trying to "work it out" for myself. It even went so far as to me not saying the vanilla things I wanted to say - I would express myself to them in a way that would leave them seeing me as the person I wanted them to see me as...NOT THE REAL ME. So when it came time to have sex it's no doubt I had a hard time relating to them because they were not even seeing me as me so no way they are going to be able to relate to the REAL ME!

    So since my last post I have had conversations with them and told them that to be myself I have to say things my way and without thinking about what they will think. If they have something to say in return good or bad, we talk and at least everyone is on the same page and being REAL. With that comes a powerful surge of connection for me with those people. The more connected I feel the easier it is to explore the physical - the more "desirable" those people become.

    So this new way of being fully SELF EXPRESSED will give me the confidence to go into any situation and BE ME. That might mean saying "I'm not comfortable having sex right now - I want to know you better." Or whatever I need to say based on how I'm feeling in the moment WITHOUT FEAR OF REPRISAL. With that I will have the confidence to only go into situations that I choose. Confidence in being able to be myself is exactly what I've been in need of.

    You guys have all been such a great help in offering great points of view as I work this out. THANK YOU!
    Steve

    "Relaxation over Arousal"

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