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km34

Do open relationships lead to failed relationships?

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This was posted in the another thread and it made me think.

 

I could see this happening and I am also willing to publicly state here that we will see even more relationships fail then we are now.

 

The divorce rate within the "Lifestyle" is getting higher by the day. My personal belief is that is because "Swingers" are not living by the no strings attached, keep the emotion out of it as we used to.

 

EVERY Poly relationship I have seen in the last 30+ years has ended. I hate to say, I am seeing most every "Swinging" relationship from our past also end.

 

We have a "few" long timers like us that are still together and I suspect that our small group of 30+ years will remain death due us part but most of those we have known over the years are now split.

 

Really is to bad that things have changed to the point that to many don't value the core relationship to keep it together.

 

To many have now become like the "regular' folks in this world.

 

 

Does engaging in swinging and/or polyamory and/or another version of nonmonogamy increase a relationship's likelihood of failing?

 

I personally think it depends on your definition of a "failed relationship." Did a relationship fail because it ended? Or does a relationship only fail when it existed for no reason? All but one of my romantic relationships have ended. Do I consider them failures? Only one, and that was because I never really cared for the person and only entered the relationship because I didn't want to be alone. Every other relationship I have learned from and grown because of. I count these as successful life experiences, even if they couldn't last until they day I die.

 

I also think that the reason we see more and more relationships within the swinging community fail is because people enter into it for the wrong reasons. People see to think "I'm not getting enough sex from my spouse, so I'm going to convince him/her to let me fuck other people so that I don't have to cheat and/or get a divorce." This is a just a recipe for disaster. Broken relationship + more people =/= Fixed relationship. I've found that the couples who have entered into swinging as something they are mutually interested in (not one person just going along with it - both people actively interested) stay close and remain loving, intimate couples. The people who enter it with vastly different expectations, desires, and attitudes tend to fail.

 

Just something that got me thinking... What do ya'll think?

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I don't know if anyone has done any actual statisical studies to back up the claim that divorce rates among swingers are rising or if it's just a claim based on the posters personal experience or philosophy. In my personal experience couples that swing are closer, more honest, have better communication and thus have overall stronger relationships. In fact, I believe I can honestly say that swinging helped make my marriage stronger and that open and honest communication got us past some serious difficulties in our relationship.

 

That said, I do not believe that swinging by itself will save or damn a relationship. If a relationship is strong, communication is good and honesty and trust are present, a relationship can endure all manner of hardships. If not, it won't. Simple as that.

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I am the one that made the post that is being referenced here.

 

I can agree with both of you on many points you made.

 

In the "Lifestyle" today way to many people enter it thinking they are going to fix their relationship or fill a need they don't feel is being taken care of within their relationship. There is also a lot of "cheating" going on by those not in the Lifestyle but go to parties. I hate to say I am also seeing a lot of "cheating" by many that have been in the Lifestyle for many years. I think that gets back to the "forbidden fruit" thing. They are alright with Swinging, sharing their spouse but the sneaky thrill of not getting caught doing something that they are not supposed to do it happening now. Same reason that some feel they are in the Lifestyle. It is something that the "normal" folks don't do or accept and they sneak around and become swingers.

 

Any studies, nope, I don't know of a one. We have been SWINGERS for well over 30 years now. We also host at a major club that is 30 years old. We see 800 to 1000 people each and every week. We get a real good feel for things going on after all those years and seeing that many people.

 

We used to be part of a core group of about 20 couples. This lasted for over 15 years. Out of that core group there is only us and two other couples that are now still together. It used to be about nothing but the sex. As time went on many of them ventured into other types of relationships, hanging out, dating and letting "feelings" get involved. Except for three couples now they are all divorced. In the first 20 years before that core group we never had the problems and divorce that we have seen in the last ten years.

 

I am not going to claim to be an expert, I am just a human that pays attention to life and the things around me. I have the experience but not the degree that you may be looking for to call it a "statistical study"

 

Now I do admit, the first post related to Poly. I have only been exposed to about half a dozen true Poly relationships on a regular basis. I have seen all six of them fall apart over the time period I knew them. Some of them had been together over 12 years, some only a few years but the out come was the same. All three going their own way. In one case the two women stayed together and ended up bringing in a new "male" after their other relationship ended. Once again, I am not an expert.

 

I post about what I know, what I see and what I have enough experience in to talk about. I don't deal in rumor or fiction. I don't tend to sugar cost things either.

 

Are there people that live their whole life as Swingers? Yep. we know two others besides us that have been Swingers since our teens are now all well over 50/60. Does that make us special? Nope, makes us different.

 

We have had this same conversation with the other two couples at times. We all agree that this new "Lifestyle" appears to be the common denominator to the problems and the fact that society as a whole has changed about how they deal with life and relationships. Most people today don't want to put the effort into making of a Life Long Relationship.

 

Bottom line this is nothing more then my opinion based on my life long observations and experiences. Does not make me right or wrong.

 

Good luck to all of you, hope you have what it takes to enjoy life and have the best relationship in the world.

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I am the one that made the post that is being referenced here.

 

I didn't want to use your name in case you didn't want to be a part of this discussion. :D

 

I can agree with both of you on many points you made.

 

In the "Lifestyle" today way to many people enter it thinking they are going to fix their relationship or fill a need they don't feel is being taken care of within their relationship. There is also a lot of "cheating" going on by those not in the Lifestyle but go to parties. I hate to say I am also seeing a lot of "cheating" by many that have been in the Lifestyle for many years. I think that gets back to the "forbidden fruit" thing. They are alright with Swinging, sharing their spouse but the sneaky thrill of not getting caught doing something that they are not supposed to do it happening now. Same reason that some feel they are in the Lifestyle. It is something that the "normal" folks don't do or accept and they sneak around and become swingers.

 

True.

 

Any studies, nope, I don't know of a one. We have been SWINGERS for well over 30 years now. We also host at a major club that is 30 years old. We see 800 to 1000 people each and every week. We get a real good feel for things going on after all those years and seeing that many people.

 

I don't see any reliable studies happening unless/until swinging becomes an acceptable activity in mainstream society/media. We'll see if that ever happens.

 

We used to be part of a core group of about 20 couples. This lasted for over 15 years. Out of that core group there is only us and two other couples that are now still together. It used to be about nothing but the sex. As time went on many of them ventured into other types of relationships, hanging out, dating and letting "feelings" get involved. Except for three couples now they are all divorced. In the first 20 years before that core group we never had the problems and divorce that we have seen in the last ten years.

 

Compelling personal experience, but divorce in general spiked for a while when it first became widely accepted. Divorce rates are just now starting to get to where they were in the 60s/70s. Fewer people are also getting married now, so I'm not sure if the divorce rates lowering have any meaning..

 

I am not going to claim to be an expert, I am just a human that pays attention to life and the things around me. I have the experience but not the degree that you may be looking for to call it a "statistical study"

 

Now I do admit, the first post related to Poly. I have only been exposed to about half a dozen true Poly relationships on a regular basis. I have seen all six of them fall apart over the time period I knew them. Some of them had been together over 12 years, some only a few years but the out come was the same. All three going their own way. In one case the two women stayed together and ended up bringing in a new "male" after their other relationship ended. Once again, I am not an expert.

 

Is going your own way a failure of a relationship or the growth of a person, though? Not all relationships are possible to maintain for a lifetime. People grow and change. I don't think that necessarily means the relationship failed. Now, the relationship ending in a nasty divorce/bitterness would mean failure to me. The relationship ending with the people agreeing that it wasn't working and amicably separating, not a failure to me. Would you (VegasLee and swingersboard as a whole) agree or disagree? Just curious.

 

I post about what I know, what I see and what I have enough experience in to talk about. I don't deal in rumor or fiction. I don't tend to sugar cost things either.

 

I think that's a good way to be.

 

Are there people that live their whole life as Swingers? Yep. we know two others besides us that have been Swingers since our teens are now all well over 50/60. Does that make us special? Nope, makes us different.

 

We have had this same conversation with the other two couples at times. We all agree that this new "Lifestyle" appears to be the common denominator to the problems and the fact that society as a whole has changed about how they deal with life and relationships. Most people today don't want to put the effort into making of a Life Long Relationship.

 

What is the new Lifestyle to you? Is it poly? Polyamory has been around since ancient times. Nothing new about it except for, like swinging, it has evolved.

 

Bottom line this is nothing more then my opinion based on my life long observations and experiences. Does not make me right or wrong.

 

Good luck to all of you, hope you have what it takes to enjoy life and have the best relationship in the world.

 

Thank you for sharing. :)

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To many today just bail because they don't want to put effort into relationships. Relationships take A LOT OF WORK and the American public is not into anything that takes effort anymore. To many think "moving on" is growth, I personally don't feel that way.

 

What I call the new Lifestyle has nothing to do with Poly. A few years after the Internet became popular we started seeing many more people become "swingers". You also had a certain nationwide group and self proclaimed leader try to change the image of Swingers. They cerated a "Lifestyle" and told the world this was for couples only. They seemed to forget all about "Swinging Singles" and that this was just all about sex. They started the social aspect, dating, meeting families, going bowling, etc. Once that started emotions started entering into "Swinging."

 

Any time you take something and add emotions then you open the door for people to start looking for something "better." Once that started we started seeing more and more divorces with Swinger groups.

 

Read back through the years, you will see that I will always put my name on anything I say or post. Many people here know me personally and I am the same in person as I am on line. That scares many also. :lol:

 

My opinion is that Swinging is not for 99.9% of the people in this world. Most people can not even deal with their main relationship so they have no business adding others to it. (still not talking poly)

 

Swinging used to be nothing more then recreational sex between consenting adults. Most today make it much harder then it needs to be or ever was. I don't feel it has changed for the better.

 

Sex for fun without drama is a great thing.

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Most people can not even deal with their main relationship so they have no business adding others to it. (still not talking poly)

 

Swinging used to be nothing more then recreational sex between consenting adults. Most today make it much harder then it needs to be or ever was. I don't feel it has changed for the better.

 

Sex for fun without drama is a great thing.

 

On these points, I agree with you completely. Swinging is not for everyone. People who are not in a solid relationship shouldn't do it. Swinging is recreational sex between consenting adults, sex for fun without drama.

 

Of course, I also think all these statements are all self-evident. I am now honestly curious... are there people in your experience who disagree with these points? How do you feel people are making swinging "harder then it needs to be"?

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Yes, believe it or not there are people that do agree, maybe not with their words but their actions.

 

Spend time around any club and observe that high level of drama over time.

 

People make it hard by not using common sense. They set very high expectations for others yet don't act as they expect others to.

 

Many these days are looking for life long friends but they want the sex also. Involving emotions. Do a search of these forums and see how many people feel "heart broken" because their swinging best friends have moved on to others. You can see tears in some of the posts.

 

This is supposed to be about recreational sex with consenting adults. When you start mixing emotions drama is going to happen in time.

 

We keep it simple. Meet at clubs, find people that we are attracted to, have some sex and go our own way. Sometimes we even get their names. :lol: We have made "friends" over the years but not with 95% of the people we have had sex with. We are not looking for friends, we have friends. We are just looking for some fun times without drama emotions or B.S.

 

Our life does no work for everyone. It works for us. Does not make us right or wrong and what we do may not work for you. Each to their own.

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I haven't personally in my (paltry compared to your 30) 5 years seen the level of drama you apparently have. My club experience is limited, because quite honestly the idea of fucking someone I don't know freaks me out, but I have been to a number of house parties and meet and greets.. I'm apparently one of those people watering down the swinging stock, and I am quite okay with it.

 

We have had multiple long-lasting swinging relationships that turned out fine. We'd hang out - go bowling, watch a movie, play some games - then screw each other silly. We did that until we didn't anymore. Nobody got upset when someone moved on since we were all adults and fully aware that life happens and things don't last forever. Only once did we have anything complicated, but that was entered into in a vastly different mindset than the other friendships we've had.

 

I'm a big fan of sex for fun. I despise drama. But personality plays such a HUGE role in attraction for me that I couldn't do completely "emotionless" sex. Doesn't mean I get attached to every person I have a romp with, though. :facelick:

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Most marriages fail. Swinger or not. I don't think people look at marriage as really 'to death do us part' any more, and therefore they don't really work at it. People, in general, want to take the easy route with things and when work is involved they'd rather run the other way. Marriage is work. I don't see it having much of anything to do with swinging (whatever the form the swinging may have taken). Instead swinging ends up being a bi-product of trying to lengthen a relationship past its "best by" date. Just my thoughts.

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Most marriages fail. Swinger or not. I don't think people look at marriage as really 'to death do us part' any more, and therefore they don't really work at it.

 

It's worth noting that when they came up with the while "to death do us part" thing, the average human life expectancy (even adjusting for infant mortality) was considerably less than it is today. Being married for life is easier when that means you'll probably be together for 2 or 3 decades (barring death in childbirth) rather then 5 or 6 decades.

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In the "Lifestyle" today way to many people enter it thinking they are going to fix their relationship or fill a need they don't feel is being taken care of within their relationship. There is also a lot of "cheating" going on by those not in the Lifestyle but go to parties. I hate to say I am also seeing a lot of "cheating" by many that have been in the Lifestyle for many years. I think that gets back to the "forbidden fruit" thing. They are alright with Swinging, sharing their spouse but the sneaky thrill of not getting caught doing something that they are not supposed to do it happening now. Same reason that some feel they are in the Lifestyle. It is something that the "normal" folks don't do or accept and they sneak around and become swingers.

 

Thank you for your post and your candor. I haven't been swinging for long (since last summer), but the majority of what I read and the people I talked to before entering the Lifestyle followed the party-line that swingers don't cheat, and definitely not as often as people do in the vanilla world. I came into this probably a little naive, because I thought what I was hearing was exactly what I was looking for. NSA sex with people who are committed and aren't looking to hurt their spouses or s/o.

 

I'm a people watcher and I love to talk to people about their experiences (at parties, M&M and clubs). These things have changed my view of the overall philosophy of swinging. Many of the 'long time' swingers I have talked to say they see cheating in the Lifestyle at the same rate as in their vanilla counterparts. They've helped me learn to better vet my play partners and steer clear of drama.

 

I personally know of three Lifestyle couples that have had cheating issues. One I played with a few times and the wife called to ask if I had been contacted 'on the sly'....she started crying and said she had just found out her husband cheated on her with another one of their play partners, emotionally and physically.

 

The other was a wife that started having an online emotional affair with a man. I don't know if it ever progressed to a physical affair...but an emotional affair is far worse to me.

 

The last was about three weeks ago. I went to a club in my area and played with a couple I had played with one other time. I had previously emailed with them via a joint email account and they would both reply at different times. After this time at the club, I received an email from the husband from a separate email and he asked me to meet for coffee. I knew that they played only together and it was mainly a way for her to explore her bi-curious side. I forwarded the email to the joint account and asked that they only contact me with that one in the future. I received an email from her thanking me, because she didn't realize what he was up to.

 

I'm not saying swinging is killing these marriages, but I am surprised by the number of indiscretions I've seen or heard about within the Lifestyle.

 

It's almost to the point that I won't join a couple unless they have been recommended by someone I know and trust.

 

Maybe I'm a cold-hearted woman, but I don't have an issue with keeping emotions out of sex...at least at this phase of my life....

 

Bottom line this is nothing more then my opinion based on my life long observations and experiences. Does not make me right or wrong.

 

There is great value in life experience...thank you!

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I haven't personally in my (paltry compared to your 30) 5 years seen the level of drama you apparently have. My club experience is limited, because quite honestly the idea of fucking someone I don't know freaks me out, but I have been to a number of house parties and meet and greets.. I'm apparently one of those people watering down the swinging stock, and I am quite okay with it.

 

We have had multiple long-lasting swinging relationships that turned out fine. We'd hang out - go bowling, watch a movie, play some games - then screw each other silly. We did that until we didn't anymore. Nobody got upset when someone moved on since we were all adults and fully aware that life happens and things don't last forever. Only once did we have anything complicated, but that was entered into in a vastly different mindset than the other friendships we've had.

 

I'm a big fan of sex for fun. I despise drama. But personality plays such a HUGE role in attraction for me that I couldn't do completely "emotionless" sex. Doesn't mean I get attached to every person I have a romp with, though. :facelick:

 

Just because someone juggles with fire and doesn't get burned, doesn't mean they were not juggling with fire.

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This year we will celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary. We've been a couple for a total of 29 years. We started swinging about a year and a half ago, and as I posted in other places on this forum, for the past year (almost) we've been swinging exclusively with one couple. Not poly (on which the emphasis, as I understand it, is on developing multiple committed, loving relationships). Not an open marriage (since we always get together as a quad, never as separate couples). But by strict definition of the term, not really swinging either since we have become best friends with the other couple (so yes, emotions are involved). We call it friends with benefits. I think I tend to think of non-monogamy as being on a spectrum, with "hard core" poly on one end and "hard core" swinging on the other, with our "friends with benefits" relationships somewhere in the the middle.

 

I'm similar to km34 in that having sex with a stranger would be scary to me. I simply couldn't and wouldn't. From my perspective, at that of my husband and our friends, we are getting all the benefits of recreational sex and all the excitement of swinging, but without the risks of swinging with strangers.

 

My relationship with my husband is very strong. It has not always been easy and yes it has taken lots of work and lots of commitment. But it is very strong. And I can honestly say that this past year has made it even stronger in that we communicate far more openly and honestly than we ever have before. Our friends' marriage and relationships is very different from ours, but equally strong in their own way. My husband and I throughout this past year have made a continuous effort to always reconnect with each other after being with our friends and to make sure we still set aside time to nurture our own relationship. Recently we realized that we had been spending so much time with our friends that we hadn't had much time to ourselves, so we've made a commitment to have a "date night" - just the two of us, once each week - and that "date" will take priority over anything else going on. We see our friends doing similar things in their own relationship.

 

Could the relationship between our "quad" end? Sure it could. And it makes me very sad to think of it ending. We care a great deal for our friends and they truly have become our closest and dearest friends. But, because we are each committed to our individual marriages as well, I don't see how our relationship threatens our marriages at all. So, to answer the original question, I don't believe our "modern version of non-monogamy" increases the chances of our relationship failing. But I also think our commitment to our vows are probably stronger than the general population. Even through the hardest and most stressful parts of our marriage, divorce was never an option for us. I'm married to the man I plan to grow old with and be with "until death do us part."

 

However, for couples that did not have this level of commitment, I could definitely see the potential of a relationship like we have with our friends causing some serious drama and problems. But I think the same would be true of a couple engaging in any type of non-monogamy on any part of the spectrum. For it to work the foundational relationship must be strong to begin with. Just my two cents.

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    • By couplers
      Forget the long-ass article in the NY Times, the America's Finest News Source again sums up nicely a complex topic:
       
      https://www.theonion.com/pros-and-cons-of-open-relationships-1823614676
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