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So newbie here.. the wife and I have decided that our marriage is 'open', meaning that if we met someone we want to have sex, we have approval to go play. It's still in the theoretical stage at this point, but it's still early on.

 

I think the difference in what we're looking at and swinging is that even though we're a couple, I don't know that we'll play together. Honestly, I think she's more comfortable with the idea of having one-on-one with someone she's built up a friendship with than being 'exposed' to several people. Self-conscious and all that.

 

Which actually puts me in a worse boat than if I were a single man. The assumption (and probably with good reason!) is that a married man playing alone is cheating on their spouse, which is worse than some single guy just trying to get laid. Of course, that sounds like I'm being whiny. ;) I'm not really out and looking for people to go have sex with, I'm just leaving the door open to possibility.

 

So we'll see how things go, and if the wife feels up to playing. She's bi-curious, so the best 'warm up' would probably be to bring another female in, and see if she's comfortable with that. We shall see...

 

Okay, honest truth, I'm just posting because I have to get to 10 before I can upload my own avatar...now you know! Don't hate me! *sobs*

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Hey, whatever it takes to get you to post :) Seriously, I've always viewed open-relationships as a type of swinging. As I posted elsewhere that is basically what I had with my ex-husband when we first got into all this. We swang (is that even a word?) together as well, but I would say most often it was each of us doing our own thing.

 

You are right it does put you in a much harder position than it does her for the very reasons you listed, but it doesn't make things impossible. Actually, the fact that you are doing the open relationship thing makes it easier than if you were just "swinging seperately" or actually cheating. In your situation you aren't really looking to get with couples, you are just looking for whatever. You aren't trying to make something happen (like most single/married guys we encounter in swinging). So just continue with what you have been doing and see what happens, and know that if someting does come along you can be open to it and let it happen.

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So newbie here.. the wife and I have decided that our marriage is 'open', meaning that if we met someone we want to have sex, we have approval to go play. It's still in the theoretical stage at this point, but it's still early on.

 

I think the difference in what we're looking at and swinging is that even though we're a couple, I don't know that we'll play together. Honestly, I think she's more comfortable with the idea of having one-on-one with someone she's built up a friendship with than being 'exposed' to several people. Self-conscious and all that.

 

Which actually puts me in a worse boat than if I were a single man. The assumption (and probably with good reason!) is that a married man playing alone is cheating on their spouse, which is worse than some single guy just trying to get laid. Of course, that sounds like I'm being whiny. ;) I'm not really out and looking for people to go have sex with, I'm just leaving the door open to possibility.

 

So we'll see how things go, and if the wife feels up to playing. She's bi-curious, so the best 'warm up' would probably be to bring another female in, and see if she's comfortable with that. We shall see...

 

Okay, honest truth, I'm just posting because I have to get to 10 before I can upload my own avatar...now you know! Don't hate me! *sobs*

 

This is actually how my wife and I first started. Funny thing is, once we decided to go for it, the opportunity presented itself to me before it did for her, which surprised both of us. After each having one "open relationship" experience, we ultimately decided that it wasn't working for us, and that swinging with other couples worked much better.

 

Look forward to seeing your avatar.:)

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Actually, the fact that you are doing the open relationship thing makes it easier than if you were just "swinging seperately" or actually cheating.

 

And that's the biggest piece of worthwhile advice I've picked up along the road. Whether playing as a couple or off doing your own thing, have to be open and honest about the whole thing. I'm not going to make up some cover story to go to Georgia, when I'm actually meeting up with somebody. Whatever I do, I'm going to make sure that she knows about it, and that she's cool with it. If she's not cool with it, it doesn't need to happen, and we need to talk about why. Same thing applies even if we play together.

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I think the difference in what we're looking at and swinging is that even though we're a couple, I don't know that we'll play together. Honestly, I think she's more comfortable with the idea of having one-on-one with someone she's built up a friendship with than being 'exposed' to several people. Self-conscious and all that.

 

Well...I really don't want to burst your 'open relationship' bubble/label...but there are quite a few people in the lifestyle that play precisely the way you describe. They want to be friends first and then the sex...whatever you may think you 'know' about swinging might just be turned on it's ear by reading the Board and profiles on SLS (saw you joined there). Swingers don't just drop trou for all and sundry...many of us tend to be pretty picky about who we will and will not play with...so strike that myth down. As for not playing as a couple, there are folks in the LS that also play that way...it's hard to get 4 people that are sexually compatible, so for some they choose the separate play.

 

Which actually puts me in a worse boat than if I were a single man. The assumption (and probably with good reason!) is that a married man playing alone is cheating on their spouse, which is worse than some single guy just trying to get laid. Of course, that sounds like I'm being whiny. ;) I'm not really out and looking for people to go have sex with, I'm just leaving the door open to possibility.

 

I don't necessarily think this is the case. In everyday life there are probably women that will play with you...I've been a cheater before...and my playmates were married men. I know, I know...take my swinger card away and stone me now. :surrend: I am NOT insinuating that you are cheating, obviously your wife is in the know...I'm just trying to illustrate the point that I wasn't looking in clubs or on personals sites for playmates, they were men I knew from a vanilla setting. If you are looking on SLS for playmates, I will agree that you may have a more difficult time finding a playmate that thinks you are legit.

 

So we'll see how things go, and if the wife feels up to playing. She's bi-curious, so the best 'warm up' would probably be to bring another female in, and see if she's comfortable with that. We shall see...

 

I'm confused here...first you say you aren't playing as a couple...but here you mention bringing another female in. Can you please elaborate?

 

Okay, honest truth, I'm just posting because I have to get to 10 before I can upload my own avatar...now you know! Don't hate me! *sobs*

 

You're half way there! Can't wait to see it :)

 

Also...:welcome3:

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Playing alone as a swinging couple seems to be essentially the same as an open marriage as you describe it.

 

Pondering this as the male half of a couple that has decided to explore playing alone, and knowing that single males in the swing lifestyle have fewer opportunities than single females, the open relationship language seems to offer greater promise. Meaning, if you meet women with whom you would like to play, saying that you are in an open relationship would be more acceptable to a woman than saying that you are a swinger who plays alone.

 

Forgive me if I am off topic from this thread. These thoughts just occurred to me as I have been reading. All of the many designations of variations on lifestyles make up a continuum in a huge gray area. So much overlap.

 

This all sharpens the boundary between people in the lifestyle and in the vanilla world, because people in the lifestyle are not so hung up on labels and meaning. They are immersed in exploration and pleasure.

 

Maybe you use the label that you think will work the best with whomever you are talking.

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I'm confused here...first you say you aren't playing as a couple...but here you mention bringing another female in. Can you please elaborate?

 

It's not that playing as a couple is out, it's just not as likely to happen. At this point, where she is cool with each of us doing our own thing seperately, I don't think she's comfortable with the idea of getting together as a group with 4 folks or anything. Right now it's more like she already has a few people that she has talked to for a long time, has built a friendship with, and is interested in, and now if they ever get a chance to meet she is free to play with them, but as far as going out and meeting new people, she's more nervous about.

 

If it sounds kind of fuzzy, it is to me too, so join the club. ;) Which is why for the most part, we're not looking for anything, it's more like just leaving the door open and see if anything interesting wanders up. So far all I've gotten is door-to-door salesman and holy rollers, though, dangit! :D

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A question I have is where are you going to be looking for your playmates? Are you going to be looking from within the swinger community, Craigslist, vanilla bars etc etc?

 

Lets face it, she will be able to pick up playmates in the produce section of the grocery store but you will have your work cut out for you. I do think if you attended lifestyle clubs and parties together as a couple and made it publically know within the lifestyle that you are separate play prefered I think you have a fighting chance. If people know that you as a couple play separately and that you aren't cheating you will not be thought of as a cheater or single guy. They will often have to hear it from here though.

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I agree, also building a profile some place, not making it about sex and just try building a friendship or even a good aquaintence type thing with people that interest you. In the process of talking your lifestyle will come out with those you are comfortable with and go from there, some will balk, some will be cool with it, and some ( a few) may even want to hook up

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A question I have is where are you going to be looking for your playmates? Are you going to be looking from within the swinger community, Craigslist, vanilla bars etc etc?

 

Honestly, I probably won't do much active looking. There's one lady that I've been talking to in Georgia that may become a playmate, but other than that, I'm just perusing this board and SLS, chatting with folks, and doing more talking than anything.

 

Lets face it, she will be able to pick up playmates in the produce section of the grocery store but you will have your work cut out for you. I do think if you attended lifestyle clubs and parties together as a couple and made it publically know within the lifestyle that you are separate play prefered I think you have a fighting chance. If people know that you as a couple play separately and that you aren't cheating you will not be thought of as a cheater or single guy. They will often have to hear it from here though.

 

I think I might eventually wander up to one of the social clubs, and hopefully the wife will want to come as well and see what folks are like and all that. But I'm in no rush.

 

I agree, also building a profile some place, not making it about sex and just try building a friendship or even a good aquaintence type thing with people that interest you. In the process of talking your lifestyle will come out with those you are comfortable with and go from there, some will balk, some will be cool with it, and some ( a few) may even want to hook up

 

Yup..that's kind of where I'm at. Just talking to folks, getting to know them, and *shrugs* maybe something will come of it. If not, I'm not sweating it either. I can at least say I won't be one of those desperate guys at the club, starving for sex. ;)

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Honestly, I think she's more comfortable with the idea of having one-on-one with someone she's built up a friendship with

 

I'm going to rain on this thread a bit.

 

When I read this my first thought is 'Divorce in 2 years tops'.

 

Someone new inspires those sort of crazy 'in love' feeling you don't get from your current spouse that you have been with for years. They are more fun to be with because of this, you just don't seem as fun, and he wants to get married and see the world with her or some such.

 

'Honey its not you its me, I don't know what I want any more, I need time alone. blah blah.'

 

'Translation, I have more fun with him, see ya.'

 

Finding stats on this stuff isn't easy but from what I've gathered open marriages have very low success rates, too much appart and the marriage seems to become less of a loving intimate marriage and more of a friends/business associate type of thing.

 

I can't say I have personal experience with this, but the only two open marriages I knew of both quickly failed.

 

I think swinging does work long term because its a 'together' thing, a shared experiance. Even when couples play alone it tends to be with people they already know together. Its a bit different than 'Honey I met this great guy today, don't wait up.'

 

Like all things sexual I'm sure for some this can work and still maintain a real to death do us part marriage, but I don't like the odds.

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Chicup,

 

Yeah, you are probably right, but don't rain on their parade yet. We all get to our place in life at our own pace. Part of that is terminology. Grey may be using the words that he knows But he found his way here. Will this work for them? Who the hell knows? But give them time.

 

S

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I'm going to rain on this thread a bit.

 

When I read this my first thought is 'Divorce in 2 years tops'.

 

I won't lie, there is some discord on the home front because the wife is quite solidly addicted to Second Life (online community, hard to explain, but google it if you're not familiar with it) and there's one person in particular that she has an online relationship with. And that's all fine and dandy, except that she's pretty absorbed in it to the exclusion of everything else.

 

Will it work and last? *shrugs* Dunno...the alternative options are to lock everything down, no playing or flirting or outside relationships, or to get a divorce now and move on. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I don't really know that the first one is a viable option either, actually. So I'm willing to try and see if we can maintain a working marriage, while having relationships outside of it.

 

And I'm sure you could find stats that show swingers' marriages have a high rate of failure too. I mean, hell, marriages in general have a high rate of divorce. Nothing is really ever certain, especially when people get involved.

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I won't lie, there is some discord on the home front because the wife is quite solidly addicted to Second Life (online community, hard to explain, but google it if you're not familiar with it) and there's one person in particular that she has an online relationship with. And that's all fine and dandy, except that she's pretty absorbed in it to the exclusion of everything else.

 

:duh:

 

Ok its worse than I thought. I'm very familiar with this sort of thing, in fact the last open marriage I knew that failed was a woman I knew from an online game. She wasn't happy at home, her husband agreed to the open marriage (he wasn't happy with her either), shes now divorced and living with her online buddy.

 

I've been involved in online gaming for years, and I've seen this happen now in one form or another about 5 times.

 

You are in trouble, and if the guy she knows online is her 1-1 friend she wants you are in serious trouble (unless he is married, then he will have an affair he won't leave his wife and she will be miserable about it (yea saw that too)) .

 

Breaking the online addiction is very hard, its one of those where she will basically have to get sick of it, you can't really reason with it.

 

I wish I had some constructive advice on how to fix this but I don't other than you need to either ween her from the game 'somehow' or maybe even play yourself to get more together time (though that doesn't always work). I find the entire concept of second life to be about as exciting as watching paint dry but it would be worth it to save your marriage.

 

Will it work and last? *shrugs* Dunno...the alternative options are to lock everything down, no playing or flirting or outside relationships, or to get a divorce now and move on. Now that the cat is out of the bag, I don't really know that the first one is a viable option either, actually. So I'm willing to try and see if we can maintain a working marriage, while having relationships outside of it.

 

And I'm sure you could find stats that show swingers' marriages have a high rate of failure too. I mean, hell, marriages in general have a high rate of divorce. Nothing is really ever certain, especially when people get involved.

 

My impression was that open marriages were less stable above and beyond normal divorce rates, but I think you are trying to fix a broken relationship in a way that almost guarantees failure. If you are not #1 in her life now, you most definitely won't be after she starts to play around with someone else.

 

Edit: Though knowing the second life crowd your wifes 'friend' could turn out to be 15 ;)

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I don't know. The 'open marriage' thing has always sounded, to me, like short trial separations.

 

OK, those of you have done it successfully, please excuse me.

 

I loved our swinging and would absolutely love to get back into it in some way.

 

But, about a year ago my wife actually mentioned the possibility of an open marriage. It was a point when I was actually a bit depressed about not swinging anymore.

 

My very first feeling was a little excitement but then I realized that I'd feel so darn guilty if I did it that it wouldn't be enjoyable. I would have to be single, not just have permission, to enjoy being alone with someone else.

 

And, Julie, is the fact you and your first husband are ex-s partly due to just this?

 

To me 'swinging' is when couples are enjoying this adventure together. Well, separate rooms accepted. :)

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I don't know. The 'open marriage' thing has always sounded, to me, like short trial separations.

 

OK, those of you have done it successfully, please excuse me.

 

Finding stats on this stuff isn't easy but from what I've gathered open marriages have very low success rates, too much appart and the marriage seems to become less of a loving intimate marriage and more of a friends/business associate type of thing.

 

I can't say I have personal experience with this, but the only two open marriages I knew of both quickly failed.

 

Given I'm one of the few on this board who actually admits her status as being in an open marriage, I think I'll take this opportunity to jump in with my two cents as a form of counterpoint based on my experience.

 

To start, our marriage is not a trial separation or business association nor have we lost any intimacy to our marriage. Actually, I thought we were even closer, if that was possible, due to our commitment to honesty and full communication with each other and everyone else involved, just like the straight-up swingers. I don't see this changing, even if someone spit out the study or numbers showing that my marriage is more likely to fail than a vanilla marriage or a swinger marriage. It can and does work for some...

 

There's certainly failure of marriages associated with swinging or poly as there are with open marriages. A screwed up relationship isn't going to survive swinging, cheating, poly or an open relationship arrangement. Someone who moves into an open marriage or swinging because they are bored, or want sanctioned cheating or unfulfilled already has issues prior to doing this. It's certainly no different than married couples that enter swinging to try to fix their marriages or who decide they are poly in order to sanction their cheating somehow.

 

The reasons why people go into open marriages, polyamory or swinging to me is more indicative to the potential to successfully maintain the current marriage or relationship. Expectations for/upon entering into a non-monogamous also seem to play a huge part. The state of the marriage or relationship before entering into an alternative arrangement is yet another huge factor.

 

And this is what seems to have been revealed by the OP, that there may be factors out there that may indeed indicate problems already that may indeed end in a broken marriage. But it isn't going to be necessarily because of an open marriage. We could substitute any number of alternative relationships in place of the term "open marriage" and the potential for failure will remain the same because of the potential underlying issues that exist before even entering the alternative sexual relationship arena.

 

To me 'swinging' is when couples are enjoying this adventure together. Well, separate rooms accepted. :)

 

I know this is your opinion, and my response is not intended to be an attack. I read this, and my first thought is who is to say that people in an open marriage are not enjoying this adventure together? When did proximity become the qualifier as to enjoyment?

 

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox. It was kind of lonely up there anyway since I'm in the minority position here.

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:duh:

 

Ok its worse than I thought. I'm very familiar with this sort of thing, in fact the last open marriage I knew that failed was a woman I knew from an online game. She wasn't happy at home, her husband agreed to the open marriage (he wasn't happy with her either), shes now divorced and living with her online buddy.

 

Yeah, in this case it's a little less likely to happen, since dude lives in England, but still. I've tried to get on SL, but like you said, it's just boring to me. Early on I brought up the option of divorce to the wife, and she's insistent that that's not what she wants. *shrugs* So we continue to try to work on things, and life goes on.

 

And like rpu3 said, I wouldn't judge all open marriages by my situation. I realize there's some huge flashing neon warning signs all over my relationship, but that doesn't mean it's because of the open marriage. In my case, the open marriage is more of a symptom of the problem, than the cause. And now I sound all sad and pathetic, like a kicked puppy. Awwww. ;)

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In 30 years of being involved in alternative lifestyles I have never seen a relationship become "fixed" or last by delving into something outside of the broken relationship.

 

Many will use it as a reason to try easing the pain of being alone as the relationship breaks up at some point.

 

Anything that distracts from the relationship will not help it in the long term. It may prolong the break up but it does not fix the problem.

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I don't necessarily think those in open marriages are more likely to fail. It's the same argument that non-swingers make about swinger marriages. But, in light of the online gaming, the issues you all are dealing with, I think ANY outside contact, including swinging, open marriage, or cheating is only going to further seperate the two of you.

 

If a couple agrees to open marriage while their marriage is a healthy one, I think it can work. If your marriage is in a fragile place and you decide to have an open marriage (or swing, for that matter) you are either prolonging the inevitable, or speeding it up.

 

Pepper

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rpu3 ... I'll hold your coat while you're on the soapbox, you are not alone. What is swinging and what is not is a never ending debate on here but in my mind it's rather simple, swinging is consentual sexual play with others. And to head off an 'others definition' tangent, I'll just say ...you all know what I mean.

 

We did mostly couples, some mfm, and she had an ongoing relationship with a b/f for years. He was a platonic friend of hers long before we ever met and her first encounter with him was after we'd been married almost 10 years. It was something she had 'on the side' with no involvement on my part in their activities, and yet it was something her and I shared and delighted in. I didn't pursue like activities, that just wasn't in our realm of interest. Can that be called an open marriage by definition or by opinion? Kinda some degree?

 

I believe the important thing is that it's something we were both comfortable with and, equally importantly, it wasn't to fix anything. And, by the way, explaining a venture into the lifestyle because of 'boredom' or to 'spice things up' are interchangeable motives by and large, just a matter of degree and depending on how one expresses it. I mention that to differentiate between those motives and trying to fix something that's broke.

 

Rob

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If a couple agrees to open marriage while their marriage is a healthy one, I think it can work. If your marriage is in a fragile place and you decide to have an open marriage (or swing, for that matter) you are either prolonging the inevitable, or speeding it up.

 

Pepper

 

I think you're right, actually, not just in my case, but in general. You have to start with a healthy relationship between you and your spouse before you can add any other elements to it, whether it's playing together or seperate.

 

I'm glad I came on here and started talking to you guys, because it's gotten my brain juices flowing. I want to work on what we already have before or if we chose to expand on it. Looking elsewhere for attention isn't going to make things any better on the home front, but it can hurt.

 

I'm still not saying that open marriage/polyamory/swinging is a bad thing, but if the foundation is crumbling, the house can't stand, whether it's a Ranch or a Tudor. ;)

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And, Julie, is the fact you and your first husband are ex-s partly due to just this?

 

 

Actually, no. As I've posted in other threads, I think swinging (including the open marriage side) is probably what kept us together as long as we were. What split us apart was just wanting different things and realizing we were different people. When we got married I was 20 and I thought I knew what I wanted/needed in a relationship and that he could give it to me. By the time I was 26, I realized it was something completely different (something that included having a lot more in common than sex - there was a lot more to it than that).

 

I won't lie, there is some discord on the home front because the wife is quite solidly addicted to Second Life (online community,

 

I always pictured you guys as more WOW types. My last ex was a WOW addict to the point that it caused a serious divide in our relationship. I don't like the idea of being second to a GAME! and it was something I wasn't willing to put up with. I put that in the category of extreme selfishness. I don't know what extent it is for you, but for us it was if he was awake and not at work he was on WOW. He'd spend some time with me in the evening on the nights we had together then as soon as I was asleep (if he waited that long) he was online until he fell asleep in the computer chair. Then he'd sleep all the next day and not want to do anything. By the end, he just didn't bother coming over because it was easier to stay home and play WOW than "fight" about it. It took me a month to break up with him just because I wanted to do it in person without his kid around. I finally did it over the phone. :eek:

 

I hope it's not to that point for you guys. If I remember right you've been together a while... at least 5 years? (it was about that long ago the last time I ran into you guys).

 

In 30 years of being involved in alternative lifestyles I have never seen a relationship become "fixed" or last by delving into something outside of the broken relationship.

 

Many will use it as a reason to try easing the pain of being alone as the relationship breaks up at some point.

 

Anything that distracts from the relationship will not help it in the long term. It may prolong the break up but it does not fix the problem.

 

That about sums it up.

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I base my opinions on open marriage on my own investigation of swinging and later readings I've done on human sexuality as it relates to genetics and evolution.

 

I think we all know that swinging is not for everyone and every personality type.

 

The same of course applies to an open marriage, only more so, there are going to be even less people who will 'succeed' in an open marriage than a swinger one.

 

An open marriage is often the last resort to fix a broken one, and obviously won't be very successful for most people in that. This was my initial feeling with the OP and apparently it turns out to be the case.

 

geminigrey I wish you luck you are dealing with someone with an addiction more than anything else, those games have destroyed countless relationships even without a sexual aspect to them. I normally don't say look for professional help in that, and I don't know if psychology has caught up to dealing with this kind of addiction yet, but you may find resources out there to help out as this is such a common problem.

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We are new to the scene as well. More broke in now then what we were thou. We took our marriage open and had the same issues. I could easily have play dates and hubby could not. The swingers lifestyle has allowed us to both play together and play apart. The couples aspect can be fun if theres a mutual attraction. Some couples will allow one on one play with the others from diffrent couples. This is how its working for us. We recently attended a party and each played alone the whole partty. It worked for us. I classify myself as more of a swinger then having an open marriage as its just concensual sex among our group of friends. Yes I still have one that I see on the side, but for the most part we play are playing with couples.

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I read once that the reason there is no data on long-term open marriages is because there aren't many that last for a long-term. Where do you draw the line between an "open marriage" and a "trial divorce?"

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I don't necessarily think those in open marriages are more likely to fail. It's the same argument that non-swingers make about swinger marriages. But, in light of the online gaming, the issues you all are dealing with, I think ANY outside contact, including swinging, open marriage, or cheating is only going to further seperate the two of you.

 

If a couple agrees to open marriage while their marriage is a healthy one, I think it can work. If your marriage is in a fragile place and you decide to have an open marriage (or swing, for that matter) you are either prolonging the inevitable, or speeding it up.

 

Pepper

 

I completely agree!!!!! Kudos for putting it so well!

 

 

 

Does anybody else have a hard time paying attention to the posts instead of her arse??? Sorry Pepper, I mean no offense, and I'm sure you already know you have a great body....

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Whats the diffrence between and open marriage and swinging yet playing apart. An open marriage only works if rules are in place. Everyone has there own set of rules. I enjoy swinging with my husband just as much as I enjoy my man on the side. The only diffrence is the couples aspect. I dont mind a married man whose wife that knows about me. But I find it somewhat wierd to talk sex with a wife of whom I have slept with her husband. I prefer the one on one aspect in both the swingers aspect as well as in an open marriage. But I honestly dont see much diffrence between an open marriage an d swinging.

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Swinging- Both partners know that the other is doing it and when

 

Open Marriage - one of the partners does not know the other is doing but they have permission to do whom ever they please, when ever they please AND they may or may not tell the partner when they have done some thing.

 

Personaly on our end its a matter of safety, I want to know where and who and have met them, same for me in the reverse, that way if anything ( godforbid) bad happened I/we have a starting point

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There is always the option of finding a committed couple both of you are attracted to. I would like to think such of one exists. Swinging isnt just about having sex. We have made some awesome friends swinging, I have yet to find a committed couple but I keep hearing such a thing exists.

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I disagree with the take on a open marriage. An open marriage can be done with the same rules as swinging. I made sure my husband always knew when I was going out who and where I thought I was going and gave him a way to always contact me. I also would send him a text while I was out letting him know when I would be home. In return I expected to know who and when he was going out. We did have an don't ask don't tell policy in place when it came to sex. But still had he ever asked I would answer.

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IMHO what you discribed is more swinging than an open marriage. as I stated in my post I feel that opne marriage is when you don't know when where or how and may never know, and as I stated those in open marriages may or may not tell.

 

Lets face it my opinion of open marriage is going to differ from someone elses and I feel the defining would be impossible ... kinda like definining "Nice couple" in the other post ... or even what one looks for in a playmate ...

 

Now if we take where folks ( and I know we have some here ) that are in open marriages and swing ask them where they feel the line crosses, find out from folks who ONLY practice open marriage where they feel the line is that they would be concidered swinger, and where the swingers feel at what point they feel it would be crossing into open marriage.

 

If we do that we may find a commonality to which we all MIGHT agree with a minimum of grey area.

 

however the open marriage folks I knew (never played with them) were of the mind set that they could do who ever when ever, no need to tell or inform at all.

 

The way those folks I met and knew played was a hair line from cheating as its cheating if you have no permission, but the open marriage folks had a never ending permission.

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I think trying to define open marriage is going to be like trying to define swinging. Everyone's opinion is going to be different. Can someone who doesn't consider themselves in an open marriage even really attempt to define what one is?

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I think to a degree yes they can define, how one might ask, By knowing at what point they feel they would be crossing into that area. which is why an understanding from all three sides as to what hey think that line in the sand is may lead to a more definite answer.

 

For us who have dabbled on the fringe at times ( by our definition) it would be

 

approval and knowing (whether seperate or together) -Swinging

Approval and not knowing (or finding out after the fact) - Open marriage

no approval and not knowing -cheating

 

but here in again, it is only my opinion.

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I think trying to define open marriage is going to be like trying to define swinging. Everyone's opinion is going to be different. Can someone who doesn't consider themselves in an open marriage even really attempt to define what one is?

 

I agree with Julie here. Even those in an open marriage will most likely see it differently than another couple.

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Swinging- Both partners know that the other is doing it and when

 

Open Marriage - one of the partners does not know the other is doing but they have permission to do whom ever they please, when ever they please AND they may or may not tell the partner when they have done some thing.

 

Personaly on our end its a matter of safety, I want to know where and who and have met them, same for me in the reverse, that way if anything ( godforbid) bad happened I/we have a starting point

 

I don't know that that is the best description. Most of the people I know personally who consider themselves in an "open marriage" know what each of them are doing and with whom. Like you said, it's a safety issue, and for a lot of them, individual 'approval' has to be had before you can go off and play.

 

I really don't know there is technically a difference between an open marriage and swinging. I'd say it is that each of the spouse play seperately, but I've seen people talking about swinging solo as well as with their spouse, so I'm not sure.

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Swinging- Both partners know that the other is doing it and when

 

Open Marriage - one of the partners does not know the other is doing but they have permission to do whom ever they please, when ever they please AND they may or may not tell the partner when they have done some thing.

 

I can see some open marriages operating like this. I consider myself in an open marriage, and we engage in swinging on occasion. However, when I go about my open marriage activities, I don't do whomever, whenever and I don't NOT tell my spouse. I may not ask permission per se, but my spouse's opinion and comfort are very important to me and as such, I keep him in the loop at all times.

 

I disagree with the take on a open marriage. An open marriage can be done with the same rules as swinging. I made sure my husband always knew when I was going out who and where I thought I was going and gave him a way to always contact me. I also would send him a text while I was out letting him know when I would be home.

 

I do what you do/did. And I too disagree the one take on an open marriage.

 

I think trying to define open marriage is going to be like trying to define swinging. Everyone's opinion is going to be different. Can someone who doesn't consider themselves in an open marriage even really attempt to define what one is?

 

I agree that trying to define open marriage is going to be no different than any of the threads regarding a definition of swinging.

 

While I find opinion interesting as to how others perceive an open marriage, if they aren't in one or have not participated in one, I'm hard pressed to do anything but put out a counterpoint based on my actual participation in an open marriage.

 

Just like in swinging, there are variations; some are some that might operate from Bama's definition, but there are just as many that would be put off by his definition. I am one of those. Just like in swinging, open marriage participants have established their own boundaries with each other, and with those whom they see and those arrangements can take any number of shapes.

 

Defining an open marriage makes as much sense as creating a hard and fast definition of swinging. It makes for interesting debate and long threads, but it really doesn't go anywhere; we all define ourselves as we see fit.

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I really don't know there is technically a difference between an open marriage and swinging.

 

I've seen enough web pages and a couple of books that would consider open marriage one big category, and swinging, polyamory, consensual non-monogamy, fuck buddies, etc. as subcategories or styles of an open marriage.

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I think we all know that swinging is not for everyone and every personality type.

 

The same of course applies to an open marriage, only more so, there are going to be even less people who will 'succeed' in an open marriage than a swinger one.

 

Are there numbers or case studies or something in what you've read/studied that show a difference in marriage success rates between "swingers" and "open marriage participants"?

 

An open marriage is often the last resort to fix a broken one,

 

I've seen swinging used more often by those in a troubled marriage as a last resort than open marriage. That's just my observation from participating in the open marriage/consensual non-monogamy communities, as well as participating in swinging. There seem to be far more swingers than open marriage participants, so I'm curious as to the numbers or where the perception arises as to the reasons or failures of an open marriage.

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[

 

Defining an open marriage makes as much sense as creating a hard and fast definition of swinging. It makes for interesting debate and long threads, but it really doesn't go anywhere; we all define ourselves as we see fit.

 

I would say that I can live with this and as stated would feel that is accurate as well ... Kudos ;)

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This weekend I decided to see what MOST people see as Swinger and Open Marriage. I think a good way to find what the majority of people think is Wikipedia (I'm not saying that their definition is right, I'm just saying it's what is most widely accepted)

 

I always thought that Swingers were a subset of Open Marriages, but according to the good people who write the wikiarticles around the world, it's the opposite that is true. Open Marriage is, according to general belief, one of the many ways you can swing. Others include Dogging, Hotwifing, Threesomes, Group Sex, cuckolding etc.

 

I think what wasted2008 described actually fits into the wiki-category of hotwife (depending on the vicarious pleasure felt by the non participating partner), again, not that I agree, it's just how they describe it.

 

I guess one could argue that Open Marriage could be when the other person doesn't feel outright pleasure from his or her partner getting a little on the side and swinging is when he/she does... Maybe??

 

My conclusion is that most of the time people argue is because some people want to call it one thing and the other person understands this as another thing. Just sticking to an established nomenclature would solve many misunderstandings. So lookup swinging and open marriage in wikipedia and see if you agree.

 

can you place links here? I wont just in case

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I always thought that Swingers were a subset of Open Marriages, but according to the good people who write the wikiarticles around the world, it's the opposite that is true.

 

...

 

can you place links here? I wont just in case

 

I believe you can link.

 

What Wiki are you reading? Wikipedia has exactly the opposite for its open marriage entry - open marriage as the big group, swinging, etc. as subsets.

 

I won't necessarily agree to what Wiki says about any number of subjects, given that any Tom, Dick or Harriet can write whatever they like. One is lucky to get an actual supporting cite, it's hard to view it as anything but a potentially interesting read.

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Are there numbers or case studies or something in what you've read/studied that show a difference in marriage success rates between "swingers" and "open marriage participants"?

 

No of course not, at least not with a realistic chart that can be trusted, few people would be honest about it. That doesn't mean I can't see how things seem to work, and being a swinger I get to see more of this than the average Joe.

 

Every couple we know since we started swinging are still together. Every one. Now I know of swinging couples that have separated or divorced via message boards and the like, but of the people we have met, they are all still couples, married, and a few have added kids since then.

 

Every open marriage couple I've known has divorced. Every one. Some were people we met while swinging, and two others were non-swingers I knew personally well enough to find this kind of information out of.

 

This if of course not scientific, but when I couple it with my knowledge of human mating systems as part of my study of evolutionary biology, I feel very confident in these conclusions. Were I some young PhD student I'd be making a post here to test this hypothesis, and then not ever coming back with the data :rollseye:

 

I've seen swinging used more often by those in a troubled marriage as a last resort than open marriage. That's just my observation from participating in the open marriage/consensual non-monogamy communities, as well as participating in swinging. There seem to be far more swingers than open marriage participants, so I'm curious as to the numbers or where the perception arises as to the reasons or failures of an open marriage.

 

I think as a swinger I've read/seen this more as well. In the non-swinger world though I think the "open marriage" is more common as things are so broken they want to do their own thing. Normally someone already found someone they are attracted too, or they just want to feel better about cheating. This is what I think is going on in the OP, at least potentially.

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I think as a swinger I've read/seen this more as well. In the non-swinger world though I think the "open marriage" is more common as things are so broken they want to do their own thing. Normally someone already found someone they are attracted too, or they just want to feel better about cheating. This is what I think is going on in the OP, at least potentially.

 

I had a neighbor that wanted to get into swinging, they asked us as they (once upon a time) were close friends and knew about us. Now had they heeded our advice and came here to read up and ask questions, or even sat down and asked us questions, rather than just saying they think they want to try it, perhaps it may have worked or they would have never tried. What they did do is found a lady whos hubby was out of country (not by choice) and they began to schmooz her. the wife of the couple started feeling STRONG jealous feeling right off, the hubby descided he wanted to do what he wanted to do and now 2 marriages are broke up and none of the 4 are with anyone they were involved with.

 

I say that to say this I think the ones failing are the ones going into it half cocked ( no pun intended) and the ones that are already on the rocks and shakey

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Does anybody else have a hard time paying attention to the posts instead of her arse??? Sorry Pepper, I mean no offense, and I'm sure you already know you have a great body....

 

Awww, bless your heart! :blush:

 

Pepper

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:blush: I'm all for "Open Marriage" as long as she comes home & indulges my voyeuristic tendancies, (telling me what a naughty, fertile little "breedee" she was that night.) As long as its all just once-a-week or whatever play dates & not a way to find someone else to move on to, I'm okay with it.

 

Your Friend,

Jason

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Personal Opinions...You know what they say....lol..But, I have one here...We have been in the Life Style for about 2 years now...I have personally found out if you start to go your seperate ways..you also grow apart..It's hard to pull it back together...I feel swinging is for that couple..to enhance things a little...I am personally more comfortable with just one couple as my play partner..Like I said Personal Opinion...lol....Good Luck to you both

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Open marriage vs. swinging? In one case you could say that 2 + 2 = 5 if both partners have the freedom to seek and enjoy others that may turn out to the couple's friends and play partners together and separate. If it's couples or nothing, I think it less likely for getting 4 people to agree on the potential partners. Therefore it's a limiting factor. To be fair, couples enjoying the lifestyle together will enjoy more collective success than single individuals. There is one superior benefit to couples, both of whom are genuine swingers... each will be pleased and happy that the partner finds pleasure, joy, and fulfillment in a shared and participating experience. That doesn't happen with singles, open marriage or just singles. I'm in the 60 plus range and my opinion comes from observation over the years.

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At this time, Mrs. CXXC plays individualy. She lets me know when and where she is at the time and then fills me in on the activities after. This works for her right now. She is not completely comfortable with being active as a couple with another couple at this time. As I have not started to "play" yet, we have not tested the waters with the separate play issue.

We are going to Desire Spa and Resort in a month and plan to "play" together there to see how she feels and how things work out. If she feels comfy with that activity then, we will move in that direction going forward.

I personally feel that we are in our present activity together as she tells me everything before, durring and after.

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