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  1. Back To Top | #1

    Default Nanny approached us for sex but wants husband more than wife

    My wife and I had just gotten back late Saturday night from Christmas shopping for our children and extended family, and decided to have a few glasses of wine in front of the fireplace to relax. Our nanny ended up sitting down with us and having a few glasses herself, as she had quite the day keeping the kids occupied while we were away. One thing lead to another, and we casually mentioned this board and our brief discussions on the swinging lifestyle. This topic seemed to interest B (our nanny, who's been with our family for over 2 years), to the degree of her confessing that she was bi-curious, and turned-on by the idea of being intimate with a couple. This peaked my wife's interest, as B is 21, in great shape and very attractive (wife is bi curious). Although the wife and I went to bed without B (and had some great sex to boot), we talked about it again during our morning walk on Sunday (the wife and I, that is). Just talk, no plans, which is fine with me, as I figured swinging was out of the question with my wife's feelings on the subject (see our previous posts).

    Only problem is that later that afternoon, B pulled me aside while I was finishing up some work in my office at home, and said that she was actually more interested in having sex with me, than having her first bi experience with my wife (although she is turned on by the latter). This kinda made me feel uncomfortable, not only because of her actual feelings on this subject, but because she specifically chose to bring her feelings up while my wife was away. Am I reading more into this than I should because of my wife's pronounced feelings on the subject of swinging, or do I have a valid concern?

  2. Back To Top | #2

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    RUN, run as fast as you can. This is way too close to home and a situation that could deteriorate quickly and cause BAD feelings for everyone........ time to start interviewing new nannies!

  3. Back To Top | #3

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    Give the nanny a fat bonus, help find her a new position to avoid wrongful dismisal opportunites and out the door she goes asap. (No puns intended) Your conversations can now be used in a open court if she were to file suit.
    Wrongful dismissal, sexual harrasment, etc, there are several government agencies who would love to come after you on her behalf.

    Gone, gone, gone, now!

    Also get a lawyer to draft up a termination letter detailing confidentiality and repercussions if broken.

    Man, did you ever dig a hole and jump in with both feet.
    You can get there from here!

  4. Back To Top | #4

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    I agree with the above. Bad bad situation. This is someone who deals with your children for heavens sake...I would definately shut that door and quick and start looking for a new nanny. eek
    "Well! Evil to some is always good to others." - Jane Austen

  5. Back To Top | #5

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    I'm not sure I would terminate right away. I used to work in Labor & Employment law, and though I am not sure what your laws are in your state, the others are right about the possibilities of wrongful termination lawsuits and the possible bases for those.

    So you definitely don't want to give her the axe right away, bonus or not. I do agree that your conversations have entered the inappropriate realm with someone that they shouldn't have. So, I would give it some time, let your nanny know up front that it was thoughtless and inappropriate for you two to have discussed the subjects you discussed with her and let her know, in no uncertain terms, that those types of discussions will no longer happen. Let her know that from now on, she needs to keep her thoughts and comments to herself, and pretend the conversations never happened.

    After some time has passed, THEN I would consider shopping for a new nanny and finding some other, justifiable, reason for letting her go. Along with an average severance package, a handful of letters of recommendation and possibly some job-finding assistance.

    And in the future, I would suggest you try to remember that certain things cannot be undone. Certain things are impossible to erase. This is a sticky situation for sure.
    Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.

  6. Back To Top | #6

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    Ack, I don't think I made myself completely clear in my last post. Let me clarify: My wife and I only brought up the subject, in a *very* casual way. We never went anywhere with it, ie., never invited or even hinted at inviting B into our sex lives. When B stated she was bi-curious and turned on by the idea of being with a couple, that was at the tail end of the conversation. A few more minutes out there talking about sex in general and it was done.

    What did frighten me (nearly as much as some of your replies about getting an attorney and the like), was that the morning after she more or less invited herself into our bedroom, when there was no invitation. All the "talk" about inviting her was just between my wife and myself, it never was brought up with her as a reality. I told B that my wife and I had a few drinks, and normally would have never even casually talked about our fantasies. She said she understood, and that the wine had an effect on her also, but that if it ever became a possibility, those were her feelings on it. (That she was more interested in having sex with me than with my wife)

    This woman has been with us for over two years, and in that time has almost become a part of the family, and the kids love her. Think Alice from the Brady Bunch, but younger and much better looking. I'm going to talk with my wife about all this and see where we can go from here. I'm hoping that this issue dies a quick death with all of us concerned.

    Thanks for all the advice, hope some of it is never required.

  7. Back To Top | #7

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    When a swinging couple brings up swinging in general to another person/couple most people don't think its because they want to talk about the lifestyle in general but are indirectly inviting them to join them.

    Now maybe this isn't really true, but to someone not involved I can't blame them for thinking this, so the fact that you even casually brought it up with B is just a step from saying 'hey would you like to have sex with us' in her mind. We see posts like this on the board not infrequently.

    The fact she brought it up with you means she THINKS it was an invitation. Also it means she is shy/nervous about the bi thing and doesn't want you or your wife to get the wrong idea. There is a big leap from bi-curious to bi, and she might be afraid you guys want her to take the plunge when she is not yet ready.

    So while my first reaction was RUN, RUN AWAY, the more I think about it, the more I'm not so sure. You really opened up to this woman, and she in turned opened up to you. When she is still open you were closed and recoiled in fear. I can tell you most couples we are with the woman wants me more than my wife, its pretty normal for a full swap couple so why would your nanny be any different?

    You did in fact create this situation, but I wouldn't be thinking of firing her at this point.

    As for the employee, employer situation, yea you fucked up big time. Back when I started on my career path, and older owner told me the advice HE got back when he started, which was 'Never screw the help!'. Just because it was casual to you, it amazing how a lawyer can twist the truth, and if she can 'prove' you are swingers you might as well start writing the check now, so don't let it get to that stage.

  8. Back To Top | #8

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    I agree with what Chicup has said.

    Just because it was "casual" for you (and your wife), doesn't mean the nanny perceived it as such, and considering she approached you later about the possibility of making the fantasies reality, that screams that she considered it to be much more than casual.

    As she has been with your family for over 2 years, and has become almost "one of the family" herself, perhaps she might be able to move on and kind of forget this ever happened. Personally, I think the thoughts will linger in her mind for a very long time, and things just might not ever be the same as before.

    You really have to tread very lightly when it comes to employee/employer relationships. There are just far to many possible ramifications from making that type of relationship too personal.
    Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.

  9. Back To Top | #9

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    If your wife has mixed feelings about non-monogamous sex to begin with, exploring this situation further will do nothing to improve them!! TRUST me! This is where that 'gut instinct' comes in. Something didn't smell right about this woman's intentions? Then listen to that hunch! From what you've said already, there are nothing but red flags everywhere.
    1) Your wife doesn't have any interest in swinging, per se.
    2) This woman is almost like part of your family (meaning anything goes wrong, and you're looking at some serious upheaval, not just for you, but your kids too.)
    3) There were copious amounts of alcohol doing the talking that evening.
    4) B is very young. Sorry to any 20-somethings out there, but we've found that folks under 30 generally have less life experience with which to make decisions (Please don't be offended; it's just a fact of life). This being the case, she may not be able to recognize all the factors involved.
    5) She approached you while your wife was away and stated (under some assumption of confidentiality) that she was in fact more interested in you than your wife (HUGE red flag).
    6) Your wife still doesn't really want to swing.
    7) Your wife is interested ONLY in exploring her bi-curiosity (nothing wrong with that), and B is interested MOSTLY in sex with you.

    I haven't read all your previous posts yet (I will), but I do recall a post where your wife stated that as long as she was your wife, there would be no swinging. This sex between you and B is NOT something, I gather, your wife is interested in exploring. So. That being the case, this should be a no-go right at that. There are still plenty of other reasons, as stated above, why you shouldn't even be considering this.

    I don't think this indicates a problem between you and your wife, and there's no need for attorneys. Just that some boundaries you've both set forth are being tested right now. Do you both want to stick to those boundaries, or have your comfort levels changed? That's something only you and Mrs. Coupleinidaho can hash out together. The problem I'm seeing is that you're letting your libidos influence your decision-making process. It happens to everyone, because it's unbelievably easy to do. The sex drive can be pretty persuasive that way. But that doesn't take away from the fact that you do need to make these important decisions objectively.

    So, my advice would be this: 1) Tell B in no uncertain terms that neither you nor your wife will, under any circumstances, play with her. You value her too much as a trusted employee and family friend. 2) If you're going to have a drink with B again, make sure that at least one of you (you or your wife) stays sober enough to keep things between the lines. Somebody needs to keep their wits about them. Your marriage may depend on this. 3) Fantasize all you like about B, and both of you can share those fantasies with each other. Do not share your fantasies with B. A similar situation happened between Mr. intuition and I regarding a friend of mine who had expressed some bi-curiosity. It sure heated up our sheets, but because she was a good friend of mine, we chose not to pursue something that could end very badly. 4) If you discuss sex with B, a) make sure either both of you are present, or fully disclose anything that was said after the fact, and b) don't let her get the wrong idea about your discussions. She needs to understand that, while you both are definitely intrigued by the possibilities, you have made a firm decision and that she needs to respect that.

    Hope this helps.
    Fear is a symptom of ignorance. Knowledge is the cure.

  10. Back To Top | #10

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    Everyone has given you much to think about already, so I'll try not to repeat and instead add some other thoughts that have come to mind.

    You didn't mention if you told your wife about the nanny approaching you while she was out of the house. Have you told your wife?

    Knowing where my naive, romantic head was at 21 years old, and from what you have described, this nanny is probably living in a glorious fantasy world right now. She's consumed by visions of you two. She's playing a movie in her mind: "How Mr Nice Boss fell in Love with Me." Even though this all started with the discussion of swinging, she likely has no real idea of what swinging is. For her an involvement with you would not be just sex.

    I don't think you can ignore what has transpired in hopes it will go away. I would let the nanny know that you were all just talking freely and that's all it was. Keep it simple and to the point. AND, make sure you and your wife are standing together as a team communicating this message to her, so the nanny knows you have kept no secrets from your wife. I think this is a crucial tactic to break the spell of fantasy that this young girl is living right now.

    She's probably hoping there is something special developing between you and her, and that you secretly want her as much as she wants you. (I don't think she would have approached you privately if she didn't want you BAD.) She's probably hoping you are willing to start having sex with her behind your wife's back.

    LM

  11. Back To Top | #11

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    If your state is a 'work at will' state then I wouldn't worry about asking her to move on. Help her find a job and get her out of the house. You crossed lines and those lines can't be erased. She is going to be in your house all the time: too close to home for your wife I guarantee you. Talk to your wife and agree that it's time for a new nanny. If you didn't actually have sex with her then she has no case against you anyway. You are not obligated to keep help if it's no longer needed or wanted.

  12. Back To Top | #12

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    Yes I think you are overeacting...but you wife's feelings are way more important than this young ladies.

    You both have an opportunity to be dignified educators here. What needs to happen is have more, not less, talks with her in front of your wife. She needs to learn what swinging is all about now, not later after lots of damage could've been done by being mis-informed about how things work in the lifestyle.

    Kinda curious as to why you and your wife brought it up at all if your wife's not interested.

    One more thing, it would be easier to talk about things if she wasn't your nanny, but I'd hate to let her go on just what has happened so far. Is she smart? What are her ambitions in life? She can learn how thoughtful swingers are or she will learn how she should never ever trust herself with others again. Not saying she's that frail, but you have to make the call.

    Male D
    "Just nod if you can hear me..."

    David Gilmour

  13. Back To Top | #13

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    Quote Originally Posted by kittycat11
    If your state is a 'work at will' state then I wouldn't worry about asking her to move on. Help her find a job and get her out of the house. You crossed lines and those lines can't be erased. She is going to be in your house all the time: too close to home for your wife I guarantee you. Talk to your wife and agree that it's time for a new nanny. If you didn't actually have sex with her then she has no case against you anyway. You are not obligated to keep help if it's no longer needed or wanted.

    I am going to digress a bit from the original topic and just state, for the record, that "work at will" doesn't matter in cases of alleged sexual harassment or discrimination. Those are federal statutes that cross all state boundaries.

    Texas, where I am, is a "work at will" state, and it is definitely non-union, and pro-employer. However, at any given time, there are multitudes of lawsuit for wrongful termination in the state courts. Most are moved to district court level (federal) because of the very nature that the charges that they allege are covered in federal statutes and leave state statutes moot.

    I am not saying that this situation has even gotten to this point. What I am saying is that you can never guarantee another person's motives if they feel scorned in any way. I am saying that once you throw something on the table, the person that picks it up may have a completely different mindset and thought process in the whole thing.

    It's best to know everything up front, and not leave anything to chance.
    Life is not measured by how many breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.

  14. Back To Top | #14

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    Well here is my $1.99 special: Having had a few close calls with a few similar experiences, I/we apply this rule, work & play ok, play & sex ok but work & sex not ok, especially since "B" is your employee and takes care of your children.

    Kieth recently found out that one of the kids he coaches his parents are swingers, plus they have routinely tried to make a date with us. We both agree that while Kieth is this child's coach there are no get togethers.

    Plus the only common denominator is that we are considered swingers, but personality wise we would not hang around them.

    So in conclusion, keep your mouth shut and your dick in your pants when around the "B", your wife should also stay clear too!

  15. Back To Top | #15

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    The short version to all this is:

    You are her employer
    She is your employee

    Whole different set of rules apply. The slightest sexual innuendo can be construed incorrectly.

    Fred
    You can get there from here!

  16. Back To Top | #16

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    fire her. and see her in private with your wife present for a threesome. talk to wife about it though as she is most important.

  17. Back To Top | #17

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    I don't give a damn about the labor laws--here is the important point. This woman has now propositioned you for an intimate encounter alone with you. That means someone living in YOUR HOUSE has feelings for you and is seeing if you'll take the bait. That means she's got to go. I don't know where, I don't know how, but if she doesn't go, I see this ending badly if she's kept in the picture.

    Pepper
    "Swinging is a lot like riding a Harley, ...for those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don't, no explanation is possible." --Mr. Alura

  18. Back To Top | #18

    Default Re: New development, am I overreacting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coupleinidaho
    Only problem is that later that afternoon, B pulled me aside while I was finishing up some work in my office at home, and said that she was actually more interested in having sex with me, than having her first bi experience with my wife (although she is turned on by the latter). This kinda made me feel uncomfortable, not only because of her actual feelings on this subject, but because she specifically chose to bring her feelings up while my wife was away. Am I reading more into this than I should because of my wife's pronounced feelings on the subject of swinging, or do I have a valid concern?
    I personally wouldn't worry too much about it. You and your wife have not swung, she is young and hasn't been in the lifestyle and doesn't know the rules. I'd tell her that is not the idea and that you come as a couple or not at all.

    We had this same situation with a gal I met in West Yellowstone while on business. Ironically enough she was from Idaho Falls and 20-years old. We hit it off well and I laid-out the situation. Mrs. WS and her talked on the phone, sent emails back and forth, etc. She came to Salt Lake twice and both times tried to see me alone. Both times I told her we are a package deal. She eventually disappeared from our lives.

    I would have to believe your nanny would be the same way. Either she will respect it or she will move on. I don't think this girl is in love with you and is a threat to you that way. I think she sees it as some fun with you. It's kind of a fantasy situation anyway, wouldn't you agree?

    Regardless, I'd first tell your wife about it and get her input. Swinging is all about honesty, and this shows you're very honest with her. I'll bet she goes with firing her.

    Mr. WS
    "Sex is something you do, sexuality is something you are." ~ Anna Freud
    Blog: Bigger Love

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