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hamlet

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hamlet last won the day on January 24 2008

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About hamlet

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    Syracuse

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    antonyandcleopatra

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  1. Up until recently, I would have brushed this question aside, as we'd almost never run into bisexual males in the lifestyle. We've been to clubs all over the United States and a bunch in Europe as well, and the only time we've ever seen bisexual activity was an MMF threesome we observed in Vienna. Even then, we didn't believe it until we took a more focused look at exactly whose organs were lodged in exactly which orifices. Lately, however, my wife has become more open to the idea of meeting single men--we've played with single men at parties, for sure, but rarely done private MMFs. I've been on Adultfriendfinder a lot, trying to weed out the many volunteers so that she can choose from a short list. And I've been downright astonished at how hard it seems to be to find straight males. Don't get me wrong: we think bisexual males are cool--after all, my wife's as bisexual as they come, and that's entirely cool--but me, I'm completely straight and, for the sake of keeping our health risks down, we'd rather stick to straight guys. After 11 years in the lifestyle, I never would have dreamed they'd be the apparent minority of single men. But, based on the wholly unscientific sample derived from my search, I'm beginning to wonder. Maybe it's just starting to feel more safe for men to reveal their bisexuality (and, if so, bravo!) or maybe there have always been this many men who are bi and out about it, and I've just had my head in the sand about it. Whatever the case, it feels to me as if it's on the rise.
  2. If we're talking about my ex-wife here, the answer not only is "Yes," but the specifics run well into double figures. But if we're talking about the woman whom I think of as my real wife, the answer is: No way--and, since I can't imagine that it could ever happen, I can't choose any of the options offered in the poll. Of course, we've both had other partners we've enjoyed lots, both before we knew each other and since we started swinging. But we've come to understand that a lot of what makes our swinging encounters exciting (apart from the obvious elements) is that, when we go to a club or meet a couple, we're making sex the main event of the evening. Conversely, when our one-on-one sex generates something less than fireworks, it's usually because it comes in the context of a busy day when we don't have all that much time for it and we're just trying to get it in (all puns intended). However, we've been on vacation together of late, and have been reminded of something that's proven true of other such vacations: when we're able to relax, ignore the clock, pour a drink, put on a porn movie, and take the time to do all the fondling we want before we move along to other activities, our sex is not only as good but better than anything that happens when we swing. And that's after 16 years together. If there's any exception I should make in answering this question, it's probably on my wife's behalf. I believe her when she tells me that she's never enjoyed any other man as much as me, but when she's with a woman--well, it's not that she might enjoy her partner more, but she certainly enjoys her differently. And I can't really feel threatened or diminished by that, because I know that it's comparing apples and oranges. And, since she hasn't announced that the three of them are running away together (i.e., her, her favorite lady friend, and the strap-on), I assume that, on the whole, she'd rather be with me.
  3. Although this thread has been around for quite some time, I never read it before today. We've had a number of experiences in which I've watched my wife with other men: two gang bangs (one that involved her, another women, and four other men (besides me), and another that involved her, two other women, and seven other men. We've also had a couple of encounters with single men that were arranged on line, and a couple of others that developed spontaneously at clubs. Better yet, we have pictures of most of these events, so I can relive them whenever I like. And that's not infrequently. Even still, if the number of men who want to see their wives with other men are really a small minority (2%, according to one previous post), then I/we are a minority within this minority, because we don't share many of the preferences that seem to be common among many of the posters here who are into MMF (or MMMMMF, or whatever). Specifically: 1. It's not the centerpiece of our swinging life. A lot of people here have identified this as their greatest or sole turn-on. And, of course, there's nothing wrong with that--on the contrary, if you've found something that really makes the rockets burst in air for you, then go for it! For us, though, we can pretty much take this or leave it. My bet is that it will happen again sometime, but if it doesn't, neither of us will feel deprived. 2. My wife doesn't like huge cocks. In the abstract, if I were going to watch her with other men, I'd like to see her with guys who are big, largely because it would make the experience conform better to all the porn movie models I have in my head; in actuality, I don't like to see her with large-dicked men, because I know she's probably uncomfortable, and it's hard to get turned on if I'm conscious that she's most likely not turned on. We know a couple who are very into gang bangs (it's through them, in fact, that we wound up in the two we attended), but my wife has said that she probably doesn't want to do another one with them--not because she doesn't like them or because she doesn't like gang bangs, but simply because the men they invite tend to be either huge or huger. 3. My wife also has no interest in doing a DP. Again, that's something I'd like to see in the abstract, but if she doesn't want it, then it won't and shouldn't happen. Again, it's no big deal: if I'm really hot to see a DP, there are lots of websites that will enable me to slake that thirst. As for participating in a DP myself: even if she were into it, I don't think I'd want to have quite that much intimate contact with another man (again, this is just my personal preference, and in no way a judgment on those whose pleasures are different). I've been sucked off by my wife while another man fucked her, and I've fucked her while she sucked another man, but neither of those situations involved the other guy and I rubbing our bodies against each other. 4. I've noticed that black men seem to figure prominently in the fantasies of couples who are into this--particularly white couples. We're a white couple, and my wife has been with several black men--a couple were present for one of the gang bangs; we've had foursomes with two different couples in which the men were black; and I vaguely recall a black guy doing her in the midst of an on-premises club free-for-all. And, frankly, it was neither more nor less stimulating to see her with black guys than it had been to see her with white guys. The racial difference was, indeed, a big deal for one of the guys: we did quite a few swaps with one particular couple in which the guy liked to talk to her, while fucking her, about filling her up with his black seed and breeding her, and she'd play along with it because it seemed like a harmless turn-on for him (and, besides, she's fixed). So what does all this prove? First, it proves that I've got too much free time on my hands if I'm using it to write posts as long as this. Second, I guess it simply shows men who enjoy this particular sexual turn-on come with all kinds of different preferences.
  4. Not only WOULD I like watching it--I DID like watching it when she did it on Tuesday (and then had it done to her). I think she's used it now with a total of four women, and she agrees with what some of the other posters on this thread have said: the turn-on isn't entirely about the physical sensation but rather about the power. But she also likes being the recipient of a strap-on, especially in doggystyle--which works out well, as that's not a position in which I'm very functional, so at least she gets to enjoy it this way. Interestingly, the woman of the couple whom we've been playing with longest (ten years or more) brought a double-dildo into play in one of our early encounters with them, and it's reappeared regularly over the years. My wife never minded playing with it, but it wasn't a big deal for her. And I don't think it's a big deal any longer for the other woman, either: ever since my wife introduced her to the strap-on, it's won her heart (along with other relevant parts). In fact, I sometimes think this woman would willingly forsake her husband, me, and any other males if only she and the strap-on were able to run away together and, perhaps, legalize their relationship.
  5. Halle may be a hypocrite, but she's welcome to park her Catwoman costume under our bed any old time.
  6. First of all, I have to say that, after reading the responses on this thread, I've been really impressed with the careful thought that went into just about all of them. And I say that even though I disagree with most, as I'll explain in a moment. To SpyBunny: You were concerned about whether your feelings about this are valid. In my opinion, they're absolutely valid. Swinging is an activity which a couple can happily engage in only if both are fully consenting at the very least. My wife and I discovered this the hard way in our early swinging days, when I was apparently pushing her too hard. She told me she didn't like it anymore, and my immediate response was that we ought to stop. And we did, for about two years. Then, after a long series of conversations in which we carefully sorted through what went wrong the first time around and how to avoid having it happen again, we took baby steps to re-enter the lifestyle. We've now been happy full swappers for about 11 years. But if she were to tell me tomorrow that she wanted to stop again, my response would be the same. It seems to me that, in swinging, the two members of the couple are like two presidents: each of them has a veto. We play individual situations the same way that we played our overall decision to exit/re-enter the lifestyle--i.e., if there's a couple that one of us wants to swing with and one doesn't, we don't. If there's an activity that one would like to engage in and the other doesn't, we don't. If we're at a party and one of us would like to stay and the other would like to leave, we leave. It's what I remember learning in Algebra: multiply a positive term by a negative term, and the answer is a negative. Having said that, my disagreement with most of the other respondents comes down to this: I don't think that SpyBunny's is necessarily an either/or situation--although, in the end, that's how it may turn out. But, before reaching the point of deciding either to get a divorce or resume unwilling participation in swinging, there are some half-measures you might consider. If what your husband really likes is the sense of sexual edginess that comes from swinging and swing clubs--well, what about strip clubs instead? Or what about going to on-premise clubs just as observers--or, perhaps, as observers who then move on to playing only with each other? An off-premise club, where you keep your hands to yourselves and to each other, might work too: the limited sexual interaction that you often see on the dance floor makes it edgier than a strip club but not quite as extreme as an on-premise club. Also, there are lots of personal ads I see, on AFF in particular, in which couples express a desire to meet others for same-room sex, but only to watch and be watched (we don't answer those ads, as that's not our thing, but I know they're to be found). Any or all of these might keep things sufficiently spiced up for him and sufficiently safe and monogamous for you. Or maybe not. Perhaps he won't be able to have a good time at a swing club without hunting for different partners; perhaps you wouldn't enjoy, or even feel comfortable in, any of the situations listed above. But it seems to me that this is stuff that's at least worth thinking about, and perhaps discussing, before you either find a lawyer or reluctantly slip into your bustier for one more go-round. Adding counseling to this, as another respondent suggested, might make it work even better. Whatever you choose, good luck!
  7. We've participated in two gangbangs. Based upon that limited experience, I can make these limited comments on a number of the issues raised during this thread: 1. What's the appeal of a gangbang for a man? For me, it was mostly the opportunity to watch: I'm really turned on by seeing her in action, and this was a much more baroque form of action than I'd ever otherwise witnessed in person. Also, both parties involved other women (one additional woman in the first one, two in the second) and, needless to say, I enjoyed having some time with them. For her, I think the primary appeal was that all that attention made her feel sexy--which she surely is, but I'm glad that she got an extra jolt of affirmation. Still and all, we didn't have a conversion experience as a result of these events: it's possible we'd participate in another someday, but it's never going to become our regular thing. 2. How much time did each man spend with her? I guess that our gangbangs were pretty unorganized, as they were both really free-for-alls. In each case, we were invited by a couple we know who are regular gangbangers: a group of guys whom they'd played with rented a hotel room and, once all the expected guests had shown up, the clothes started to come off and the fucking began. In the course of the night, I'm pretty sure my wife was with all of the men (four plus me in the first one, seven plus me in the other) and I know she was with all of the women. But there were no lines forming in front of each woman; rather, when there was an opening, it was understood that any man was free to jump in. Some jumped in multiple times. Of course, the women were free to say no to anyone, but only in one case did my wife do so, to a man whose cock was just too big to be comfortable. 3. How did we feel after our first gangbang? That's really the oddest part. We expected to feel some pretty heightened emotions--and we did while the event was in process--but afterwards we felt as if we had just come from a movie or a play. In fact, we went to the same light-night sandwich shop we often stop at after the theater, got ourselves something to eat, and went home to watch the episode of "Jeopardy" that we'd taped. We both laughed about how casual the whole thing seemed.
  8. I'm old enough to remember when porn magazines didn't show pubic hair. When that finally changed (around the early 70s, I think) it was like getting a glimpse of something forbidden, which is maybe why it's always been a turn-on for me. The first time I encountered a shaved woman was about 15 years ago, before I was in the lifestyle. She also had a big picture of her father in her bedroom. It was all a little too Freudian for me; in fact, I felt like a child molester, despite the fact that she was actually a couple of years older than me. Pubic hair is just part of a fully sexual adult woman's anatomy--at least in my opinion. That said, I concur with the others here who've said that they can't imagine turning down a sexy woman, even if her hair (or lack thereof) isn't exactly as one could wish. To tell the truth, we've had encounters with couples where, an hour later, I couldn't tell you whether or not the woman was shaved. There are many more interesting things to pay attention to during sex. My wife, by the way, keeps herself trimmed, but doesn't really care much what her partners (male or female) do about themselves.
  9. After reading this thread, I checked and found that our number was 2987. And, frankly, that seems unlikely--as do almost all the other numbers that have been posted. I base that conclusion on two things: 1) Like others, we've received precious few e-mails from new people--maybe 4 or 5--in the last 30 days. Even e-mails from Nigerian princes soliciting help in freeing up assets from Icelandic banks have got to get a higher percentage rate of return than that; 2) I used to check this number occasionally, and for a long time it was always in the hundreds. Of late, it's shot up and is consistently in the thousands--despite the fact that we haven't posted any new pics in years. And I can only infer from this that SLS must be tracking its numbers in some more inflationary way than it used to do.
  10. You go, daisy girl! Opening yourself up to relationships with people of all races is certain to improve not only the quality of your sex life, but the quality of your life in general. As I said in a previous post, people have a right to their preferences. And, if it happens that someone prefers not to have sex with black or white people because they don't find the physical characteristics of that particular race to be appealing, that seems just as valid as a decision to exclude blondes, or short people, or men with beards (like me), or whoever it is that doesn't turn you on. Or you can exclude people of a particular race (as Greg and Sheryl do) because you've tried swinging with them and your experiences just haven't been good. But when someone makes a decision not to have sex with black or white people BECAUSE they're black or white, that seems to me to be the essence of racism.
  11. I'm not a fan of really big tits (even though my wife is large-breasted--but, in my unprejudiced opinion, any part of her looks simply because it's part of HER), and neither of us likes artificial tits. So, when the shot that fronts the profile consists of two huge mounds with the perfect roundness of volleyballs, I generally scroll on past it. And, while I understand the desire of women to see the men that might be interacting with, we're always suspicious of profiles from supposed couples in which only the man is seen in the picture. We always wonder why the woman is invisible: perhaps she doesn't look so good? or perhaps she doesn't exist? Besides, my wife is bi so, even though she wouldn't mind having a look at the man, both of us are interested in seeing a shot of the woman.
  12. Of the four passages that were quoted to "prove" Greg's racism, it seems to me that the only one that's even potentially problematic would be: "With white men, the problem usually falls into one of two categories. Either they cum too early (after only four or five strokes during intercourse) or they can't get an erection at all (and then make some lame statement like, "This has never happened to me before!"). This has happened at least 60% of the time during swinging encounters with white men. Black men, on the other hand, rarely seem to have these problems." But, if this passage were prefaced with the phrase, "In our experience," the problem would disappear. Even though these sentences might sound like a swipe at all white men, my guess is that it was just intended as a factual statement of what's happened with the white men Sheryl's been with. And you really can't take exception to that: the facts of their experience are the facts. Likewise, people's turn-ons are what they are, and they don't necessarily imply racism. For instance, I can say that I would under no circumstances want to have sex with a man of any color. Does that make me sexist? Though it's never happened to me, I don't think I'd be bothered if a woman were to say to me, "Sorry, I don't swing with white men." (I might be disappointed, but that's another story.) I might even consider it to be tactful. We've sent face pics to a couple of couples who've declined to meet us because "Mary just doesn't go for men with beards." Now the truth may well have been that Mary just didn't go for me, but putting it the way they did made it feel a lot less personal. Granted, if a woman were to snarl at me "I don't even touch vile honky bastards like you," I think I'd be perturbed, but if she politely told me that she prefers black men, I can't imagine that that would be a problem. And, judging from the tone of Greg and Sheryl's posts, it doesn't seem likely that they'd ever be anything but polite.
  13. I was really surprised to see this topic come up, because I would have thought it to be a non-issue. As we've watched our kids grow up, one thing we've often remarked upon is that dating combinations (male/male; black/white; female/female, etc.) which were somewhat shocking when we were younger are barely even noticed by them. In fact, when we've seen them treat such pairings as perfectly natural, it's one of the few things that gives us hope for the future social development of humankind. Yet here we are (those of us on this board, I mean) in the lifestyle, pursuing behavior that is considered taboo by the vanilla world around us, and apparently even in our 'alternative" world, there's something less than 100% tolerance for other alternative behavior. I don't by any means intend to suggest that someone who happens to have a preference for black or white partners is a racist, any more than I'd call someone bigoted who had a preference for taller or shorter partners: our turn-ons are our turn-ons and can rarely be negotiated. But the notion that anyone might consider a black-white pairing to somehow be wrong is really surprising. Then again, perhaps that's only an additional piece of evidence (not that additional evidence is really necessary) that I'm entirely out of touch with what's going on out there.
  14. Here's one I've seen on SLS: "not4umyfriend." Can anyone explain why people who are actively looking would call themselves that?
  15. In the course of our swinging experience, we've been to over 30 clubs, in seven different countries, and we've yet to see a single instance of M/M play. And that seems a little sad: swing clubs are sanctuaries for those of us who enjoy a kind of sexuality that we can't practice openly in the outside world, but they don't provide the same kind of refuge for bisexual men. On the other hand, I can see the counter-argument to what I've just said--i.e., someone might ask, "Well, if you think clubs should be a refuge for all kinds of consensual adult sexual practices, would you be okay about allowing people to urinate/defecate on each other?" And I'd honestly have to answer "no" to that: I surely don't condemn people who do that kind of thing, but I really don't want to see it. I don't especially want to watch M/M play either, but it wouldn't bother me to know it was going on at a club I was attending. I suppose it all comes down to personal tastes/comfort levels. But, to respond to the original thread: the only thing that would make me interested in bi play myself would be a sex change operation, because "bi play" would then mean playing with women.
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