wandj10

I think you're right. I often feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but maybe that's just needed. I sometime brood on a subject but realize after talking about it it's really no big deal. In the past I don't think I really cared about same room or not. I think right now I'm just starved. I feel like its been awhile since we've done something in the lifestyle together as strange as that sounds. Most of my recent recollections of great times are with F. That to me is a pretty big problem.

I was thinking about this today. I think I'm really good at doing this for her as she has pretty much zero jealousy issues. I'm constantly trying to make sure things are cool and that I'm never stepping over the line. And being very thankful when she lets me experience things. Is there something specific that you guys do? or say or something? Like how does the wife reinforce you, I guess is what I'm asking.

Man, this would be very difficult. We're really good friends and hang out for maybe an hour or so almost every day or other day. Is there a specific reason hanging out in a vanilla way would be hurting things? I think that's the biggest thing right now. I feel like there's sneaking going on when I don't even know why that would be happening. I know M is really aggressive so she's probably just going with the flow and not knowing that it's bothering me. He has even told me before that if I'm doing something that's bothering me to let him know. So far I feel like it's more of a me and the wife issue. I think the other thing is we really have no rules. She has asked, "If he wants to take me back and fuck, is that OK?" And I've more or less replied, "Well sure it is, why wouldn't it be?" but then I assumed that I would be somewhere around or even just getting into things. I'm the one that never clarified. Right now a break is in order, I've got to sort this crap out in my head, plus it's super bowl weekend :P. One weekend they said they weren't going to go out (prior to drama) and I got pretty excited, they made other arrangements though so it fell through. Then one weekend we were going to go out, but my wife wasn't feeling it - and it was an emotional week so I don't think anything there. I haven't specifically asked, but I have brought up that'd I like a time to go out alone it just doesn't seem to have happened. I mean, I really like hanging with them, but these new feelings... I can agree with this. I don't really think she's in sync more so with someone else, but I do feel a disconnect - for sure. I do wonder if she wants to play more alone and I want to be together, but I guess that's for us to talk about Great post, thanks. Actually since we've met this couple the drinking bit has come down with her and we've played sober a few times. For me though it's gone up. I never really thought about that, but before I'd just be the DD so drinking would be at a minimum for me. At parties though we do tend to get a bit lit up (not falling down drunk or something but just a good buzz), so maybe we should cool that too and see if there's a difference. I've told her repeatedly that SHE isn't doing anything wrong, that I'm just expressing how certain things made me feel. If anything, and I've told her this, I feel like I'm the one doing something wrong. Another great post, thanks for your thoughts. We really don't have rules, I always thought they led to maybe not having as much fun and she doesn't have any rules for me. I think we need to rethink this though as lack of rules seems to be causing a problem for me. I just hope that my rules can still enable us to have a good time. I guess if they don't though, giving up the LS isn't the end of the world I do agree that I need to make my needs known much earlier and much "louder". Typically I just stay quiet, and bury it, because I want her to have a good time I'm willing to throw myself under the bus. I'm being pretty stupid though because I'm sure my wife would be just fine if I said something - I know I would be, and have been in the past. I've stopped a few times midstream because my spidey sense went off and could have cared less. I am really into finding new people. I do like playing with the same people (obviously lol) but finding someone new is really cool. I mean, I was actually excited that she sucked another dudes dick - yet somber that I was playing with a single girl and she was with M at the time and missed the whole thing. I wonder if I had been there what would have transpired . Finding single girls are fun don't get me wrong, but finding new friends to bang would be super awesome Thanks everyone for your replies, I really appreciate it. I wrote this with some trepidation but at least I don't feel like I'm crazy anymore and actually have a plan on how we can get back to having some fun. I welcome further ideas.

You know I was thinking about it and we really don't have any rules. She's asked about certain things being OK, and maybe I just need to be more clear and set some boundaries so we can get back to having fun again. I don't know if it's sulking either, mainly she feels really bad that I feel bad. She doesn't want to hurt me, so if I'm feeling bad then she gets sad. Basically by me admitting that something hurt me, hurts her.

She's suggested that we take a break too already. She definitely isn't doing anything on purpose it just seems like there's been a shift. I don't think anything in the LS could really hurt our marriage, if anything it's just hurting the LS - making me not want to do it anymore. As far as leaving permanently, even with these issues we still have a ton of fun - I don't think either of us wants that. I just want to know if I'm crazy or too selfish or something lol. I talked with her about it and she seems to understand. I wonder if there are any female perspectives out there? Maybe in a few weeks we'll could try it again.

We've been around for about a year. About 6 months ago we found a great couple that we became best friends with. I thought it was really great that what started as just sex turned into something more. We hang out with each other all the time and I guess this is where the problem began. We also go to all LS parties and events together. So far, they have been the only couple we've full (penetration) swapped with. About two months ago the couples F had some issues downstairs so we started having some fun MFM's with my wife as she's always wanted to do that and she really loves it. I love doing it for her, but it's not something that I'm really that into. She's repaid the kindness with some hall passes and everything's been good. Anyway, the problem is that recently when going to parties, I feel like I'm being left out...of something, and I've started getting jealous or frustrated or something? Instead of me and the wife going to parties, I feel like it's her and the husband and me and the wife. The past few weeks I feel like it's gotten way worse but I'm not sure if I'm overreacting. Let me explain with some situations: In the past when we would go we would a lot of times be the kick starter of the parties. Drink a little bit, doing like some stripper pole time, laugh our asses off, dance some, get a little frisky, make some eyes at people, invite people back to a room (or 3 or 4 or...I lost count) and just have a banging good time. Two weeks ago, I'm chatting and leaving the wife explore while I explore a bit. Having a good time. We're out with the other couple like usual and the night is going pretty well. I start chatting with another two couples and then somehow after getting some drinks get pushed out of the conversation entirely with my wife's back actually facing away from me. It was so apparent that even the dude next to me was like...so what should we talk about (his girl more or less did the same thing). Not a big deal, just something that has never happened before. Then I "lose" the wife. At the club we're at I'm told I can't go to the play rooms alone and it kinda gets me a tad angry. The wife hears me, immediately comes down and I guess they were just watching some other people. Again, something that's never happened before. If I go into a play area I always inform her - and for about 10 seconds I flip out. Whoa...that's NEVER happened before. I apologize immediately and calm my ass down. The the next weird thing happens, I go up with the F and we start fooling around...and I wonder where the heck is my wife? Why isn't she following us up? The music's loud, I yell out and try to get their attention, some other people see me and I ask them to go ask them to come up...we go into the other room but they never come... I guess the other people never told them. So I go back downstairs and my wife goes, "Well why didn't you just continue?" In my head I'm thinking, because this is about you and me US, not me and her. She's a great friend and we have a lot of fun, but aren't I supposed to be here with you? After the party I explain the situation, we give it two weeks and then we go out again... We're at our own table and there are couples giving us the eyeballs, checking us out. I'm totally digging them...I go over and talk with one of them, and I look around for my wingwoman, she's in the back fucking already. WHHHHAAAAT? I'm just like ok...how about a memo? A text? I could really care less that she was fucking, just that a) didn't say anything b) I was totally left out and c) here we are again locked into playing with the same couple when there's two other hot fun couples that seem interested. When the wife finally shows the other couples ask who she is. Everyone thought F was my wife, kind of funny if I wasn't missing mine so much. I kind of get over it, we go back to the back to try to get back on track, but again I go back with F and I expect them to show up any second. Instead I hear a loudly fucking couple in a room far away. I get kind of distracted as I'm thinking is that them? Where are they? I don't get hard in the slightest, I apologize but want to go find them. Sure enough they are having a great time alone, and I blow up again but only with a comment and just walk out. I've told my wife that I prefer same room (actually really enjoy it, watching her, interacting, holding hands, laughing) and yet she keeps ending up not in the same room. Eventually I go back in and just start engaging in a MFM again trying to coax the other F to come back (I think she's pissed at me - I talked with her later she just said she had too much to drink) but eventually I'm done sharing, was asked to swap, but I was close so I decline and a few more minutes and we're all done time to go home. Afterwards I actually feel selfish for keeping the wife all to myself. I'm all mixed up, and I just don't feel good anymore. I kind of again let the wife know my feelings because she keeps asking me "did you have fun? I had (barring the outburst) a ton a fun!!!" and my replies were mainly...meh, feel like we missed opportunities, and did the same thing we could have done if we just stayed home. I again tell her my concerns and she always says stuff like "great I'm doing something else wrong" and getting sad. I respond with, it's not wrong, it's just making me feel -----. I hate making her feel sad so sometimes I just bottle it up, but eventually it comes out anyway. I don't think it's raw jealously because if anything I'm thinking, next time just let them go out alone. I feel that I'm ruining their party - constantly. Before it used to be about us, and now I feel what are they going to do this week - and it's really ruining the LS for me. I've told her that I don't want to give up my friends, and I have enjoyed them in our lives at parties and not - just when we go out, I want to have fun with my wife too I know she's picky, she's only wanted to fuck a few other guys and for the most part the girls didn't like me or I didn't like them so it never worked out. She's also said that she's not as slutty as me in regards to finding other couples, which I find kind of confusing. I guess I do keep finding the single girls, which allows her to play with my bud (which also leaves his wife out to dry), but would much rather find another couple because single girls have their own set of drama that I'm kind of getting tired of. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? I'm confused! Recently, despite all the positives, I'm wishing we had never met them which really sucks... This has probably gotten long enough. TIA for any helpful responses.

One of the biggest reasons for coming into the LS was to be drama free. We thought of the potential for drama was too high so we've just dropped it. No need to hurt feelings, risk losing friends or whatever. He's still with the girl and she's pretty much moved in now so that ship has just sailed.

We're in the same area, and we've been to two parties in the Riverside area. One was at a hotel with a lot of dudes and another is the house that I'm going to guess that you are referring too. The hotel with the sausage fest wasn't our speed. It was our first anything in the swing LS and almost turned us off immediately. The house one was more do whatcha wanna do; there's an area to talk, dance, and some rooms to go do whatever you want. We've gone before and just talked, just wasn't "feeling it" to some soft swapping to sometimes playing with others. It was more of a ask and see type of situation. We're more go with the flow if something happens cool, if nothing happens "sexually" then that's fine too, we had a night out away from the stress of life and got to meet some new people. We've also just not been into it and just wrote down some numbers for a little more private setting at someone's place. Just think house party with the availability to do some fucking in whatever fashion presents itself.

The weird thing about this is that I'm pretty sure he already knows. There was one night when I was getting all ramped up and a little drunk and we were all dancing in the living room. Grinding me, J was grinding VF a bit (with GF there LOL) and then a tad later I was blurted out rather loudly, "OK the sexual energy is going to burst. This tank is done full and these pants are coming off in T-minus 5 minutes. I am going to start fucking!" To sell the line I unbuttoned my pants (yeah sorry by this point I was drunk) and started dancing about the room with my manhood starting to bulge. It was still covered, but VF's girl starred at me and said something like, "Oh shit time to go" whereas VF took a freakin seat on the couch! GF said, "Hey time to go", and he didn't budge till she started dragging him out the front door. Course then there was the time later when they again sort of crashed our swinger time with another couple, and I sort of had my pants off at one point and it didn't seem to phase either of them. Instead later they started making out rolling on the floor and the other couple asked probably a little too loudly, "Are they swingers too?" It seriously looked like they were kicking off the festivities, while we were patiently waiting for them to leave. I had my pants back at that point but was like....whhhhaat am I missing here? They did end up leaving and even if they were swingers (which they aren't) I'm just in no way interested in her. Yucky!

Thanks to all for the responses. I do agree, that asking to cheat is not cool. We just always thought this was a casual thing that just kept going...and going...and going..and wtf?? In person he says it's just casual and that he's not going to settle, in real life though it seems otherwise. How quickly things develop though. VF in the past two weeks or so has started to "flake". Not only on us but on other things that he said he'd be doing and then just didn't end up happening. Last night I was supposed to meet him for some lunchtime exercise and that ended up being a no go. Oh well, the wife and I would be seeing him later that afternoon at our weekly game. He's injured so wouldn't be playing but could coach a bit and help the team. Anyway, at lunch over the phone he offered to pick me up to drive over there. That afternoon, no call, no VF. I figure, well what the heck I'll drive over with J and probably just see him there. I'm called him twice and no answer. WTF? I play the game and I can already tell that J is a bit angry, stemming from a disappointing loss. That started to transfer into a bit of sexual frustration but more that our bud has "chosen". Mainly because we despise her. Fair enough though, it's his life his decision. I give it one more try calling a bit late and still a no answer. Ouch... Fortunately for us, her angst turned into outright lust and we had a grand old time, with me commenting mid-stream later that night something along the lines of, "HA HAHAH AH VF really missed out. OHHHHHH, WHOOA, what are you doing? OK THEN!! Go go go, oh shiiiiit". Lol. This morning we realized that it's too late, he's in a committed relationship and he's effectively broken up with us. I suppose we didn't see it at first but over the weeks the flakeyness has gotten more often and not answering telephone calls? Yup, we were dumped. We'll still hang I'm sure, but that was the end of an era. Cheating for us is a big no no, so until that status changes the thought of entertaining it is gone. Actually, it's sad but I think she's so controlling that we'll mainly just be people that we see during events that we both happen to be at. I don't think she allows him to answer his phone anymore is what we're guessing. Poor dude! As far as single guys, I dunno if I'm into that weirdly enough. For now, I'd rather be with a couple and maybe swing it MFM or MMF that way maybe for both girls and then swap over to FFM MFMFM and MFMMFMFMM LOL. This was simply more of a fantasy that I thought would be fun for the wife mainly because he was our good friend.

Apologies in advance, this is a long one but I would appreciate your opinions! I've had a close work bud that turned into a really close family friend for the past 3 years. I no longer work with him but we remain very close. I think of him as my brother and I know that J also loves him too. (I'll refer to him as VF.) Not in the same way that she loves me, but more or less like a brother as well. We pretty much feel the same way about him, but I'm not interested in him sexually. We have a lot of things in common and have pretty much hung out whenever there has been any free time for a few years now. Almost like a bunch of dates that we went on as a couple with just him is how I've described it in the past. More about us: W = Man J = Woman We've only been into the LS for a few months, but we have been having a lot of fun (and a few bad experiences too). We haven't fully swapped yet, but that day is coming, and we're really not in a huge rush. Its not that we're not ready or anything its just that we haven't found the right mesh. We've basically kissed (she's really into that) and I've gotten some oral action, as well as a few soft swapping situations. We also almost got into a full swap situation but J wasn't into it. I might make an introduction post and I'll link it here in due time if you'd like to know our full story. In this situation it was mainly me going at it with the other girl, with all clothes on, and instead of jealousy or feeling something else 'silly' I was redefining the word 'hot' inside of my head. I looked over though and she wasn't into the dude and so an abrupt halt was called to the proceedings and we went back to soft swapping. An epiphany of sort though occurred that night because it wasn't about ME doing something with the other woman but it was more along the lines of US having a blast with each other. That's why I stopped when I got the "look" and it didn't bother me one wit that I couldn't continue with the other woman. Fast forward to me waking up this morning and what should pop into my head? Fantasies! I remember watching an Skinimax soft core porn when I was a teen and it was all about how the two girls who were best friends decided to have fun with the husband. At first it was just the wife and she put a blindfold on the guy and kept kissing him, then she sort of tagged the friend and she started kissing him and at first he was like all "Wahhh?" but he went with it, and then the wife came back and started kissing his chest and...you get the rest. So I started thinking about how like guys really do have an attraction/curiosity to their mate's friends. I mean, I had to hold so much together to never bang the shit out of my ex GF's sister. And she was always getting me into certain situations that I'm sure she knew were giving me raging boners... YIKES! Ergo, why wouldn't females have the same fantasy? Except in my case we have a bonafide best friend in our midst who we both care for ... holy shit! Ding ding ding we got a winner! Maybe?! So now I have it playing around in my head for 3 hours this morning and J keeps wondering why I have this grin on my face because I'm thinking about how I can go propose this to my bud. I'm thinking all about how we're going to be just sitting on the couch, then I'll just start maybe making out with the wife a bit, then try to grab VF's hand and plant it on her boob, and whisper something like "hall pass" while trying not to laugh. Then I'm thinking about how turned on both of them would be and how excited my wife would be and I wonder if after a bit maybe she'd call me up, or not, and how "hot" the evening would be. Course, this probably wouldn't be the way it would play out at all but it's my head people! Shit always works exactly the way I want it to You see, I know he's clean, great person, has hangups like most people do but he's my best male friend. My wife is my best friend as well. I figure what a fun gift of sorts I could give them, would be a fantasy that they would remember for a long time. I think that the only reason I wouldn't be involved is if he wasn't ok with another male around or if it would make him uncomfortable or unable to get it up or something. I also know that he's into the wife, and I've caught him eying her with the "kissy face" that pretty much sums up his desire. I've already talked with the wife about it and she's expressed her curiosity and it kind of makes total sense to me if you look at the fantasy up above that I got into so much as a teen. I'm going to have to give you more back-story here as it is warranted for him. You see I inadvertently hooked him up with a girl about 8 months back. And she's quite a bore, no same interests, not attractive, not smart, really judgy (meaning: likes to judge others) and mean. We're both baffled why the hell he would be interested in her but we both think it comes down to that he's had 1 serious other girlfriend and this girl now has him ringed in with his cock. He's 30+ years old. I always thought he'd hit it and quit it, but she's still around and it's just all weird. I think it's mainly due to fear that he'll be lonely and this is as good as it is going to get (that's pretty much what he's told me). I think his main problem is that he's so introverted that it is very hard for him to approach girls. I think if he could get past that he'd have no problem as he's very successful and has a great heart. Oh I also helped him lose 50+ pounds too. Rrrreooorww! So there that is, he's got a girlfriend and that's one hang up that might turn him off. No problemo, I respect that even though who in the hell could resist my wife?? The other thing that got me thinking that time is running out is that this psycho biatch seriously started talking aloud this past weekend about "having kids" and "buying a house together". PUUUUKE!!! I talked with him after and said: "Really this is it? You wouldn't fuck anyone else out there?" "No, I would" "Buying houses dude?" "I'm going to buy a house if I want one." Well OK then, that's really inconclusive. I figure if there's ever a time to do this it should be soon. I don't want to screw around with anyone's marriage. I already know she is going to be the super jealous type so I'm figuring this is his last shot. If they are casually dating as he's putting off, then I'm thinking I should be making my move before this thing ends up in a horrible marriage that will eventually end in divorce :P So feel free to give some opinions on the matter so far. It might be too much to ask him to cheat on her, but I feel that's his prerogative but I think it'd be a lot of fun for everyone involved and maybe give him a little confidence boost and help him clear his head and not be so latched on that other horrible pussy. I can see you asking, "Is this to maybe break them up?" While we wouldn't mind that outcome, it wouldn't matter either way as in the end we both want him to be happy. After a little pestering me I finally caved into the wife and told her what was stewing in my brain. I wanted to just have it be a fun surprise but I think she was glad I told her and she told me that she'd be into it if I was OK with it. So now to talk to VF. I think it would go with (forgive lack of quotes): So uh...how's that whole GF action going? You guys pretty serious? If no, continue... I mean, do you love her or have you told her that? If no, continue... What if I told you that you could probably fuck someone else? Today even if you wanted to? Gauge response, if positive then continue. Well there's this person I have in mind but it might be a bit weird. Not sure how to approach this... Conversation I hope would ensue. What about my wife? With a giggle maybe so I might have a last chance to back out? I'm expecting a big WTF?? Well I dunno...I mean you never thought of it? Then I'd go into how it might be fun. I would never bring up the fact that the wife was in on the whole scheme as that would make things weird for them if he didn't want to give it a go. I'd think he'd be fucking bananas not too, but who am I to judge. The only negative for me that I've found is that well the first swap wouldn't include me, or at the best it'd be a MFM which does sound fun even though I'm not into dudes, because mainly I bet J would really enjoy it. I figure that life is long, I'll get my chance, or the more morbid: I'm dead I don't care. I can sure as shit tell you that if it was the other way around and J did a FMF for me I'd be smiling for months. I somewhat thought about that maybe J could then go around my back and cheat on me later with VF. I figure if that's what she wanted to do she could have easily done that in the past 3 years no problem. The only negative for him would be he thinks we're fucking crazy and doesn't want to hang. He's pretty laid back that I think even if I did ask he might be weirded out for a few days but we'd be OK in the end. Or he thinks I'm a bastard that wants to break them up or something although I would hope with my line of questioning I could get that before the whole proposition part. I also would make clear that this is just going to be a one time thing. The reason for saying that would be so that there would be no expectations for anything in the future. I'm not so sure that he could the making love vs fucking or casual sex part of the whole equation. I'd make it really clear though up front that it'd be just sex and if he couldn't handle it then never mind, no hard feelings. The other thing would be is that somehow he'd spill the beans and it would end up affecting his relationship with his yucky GF. Like I said before we'd be happy about it, but he might not be. If he breaks up with her we certainly aren't playing with him every night so he might be lonely till he found someone else. Which if he tried would be a day. That's not to say that if everyone had a good time we couldn't give it another go, I just don't want to give him the wrong idea or maybe even provide a band aid for his other relationship. Mostly as if that one gets more serious then I really want nothing to do with that. I can definitely over-think this though so I'll defer to the good people of the community. Is this just a bat shit crazy idea or should I give it a go?