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SpyBunny

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About SpyBunny

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    Just Getting Started
  • Birthday 04/07/1967

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    Single female
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    ohio

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  1. Hi- I'm not sure if anyone remembers this thread from last year, I was upset about swinging and thought maybe someone here could explain something that I was missing or not grasping or help me see why this was so important to my husband. I thought I would post an update. Mr Bunny and I attempted counseling last fall, as several posters suggested, but it was a short-lived and ultimately a failure. He canceled more appointments than he attended. I left him Thanksgiving weekend of last year, and our divorce was final two months ago. We get along ok for purposes of co-parenting. Mine is the typical cautionary example of not pushing. It took two years for him to talk me into this- he wore me down with the pressure and a divorce threat prior. He's very used to getting his way, ever since he was a little boy, and in hindsight, I can see the patterns now. There's a big difference between a couple taking two years to really discuss the idea of swinging because they both want it versus a couple where one partner has to convince the other. He tried the tactic that I've seen mentioned here- point out the possibility of pleasure for me in this deal. "Here's the chance for you to f*** another guy SpyBunny, doesn't that excite you?" My immediate thought which I told him- "I don't WANT another guy!" He honestly couldn't grasp that- why wouldn't I want to sleep with someone else if he says it's ok, after all, he would jump at the chance. He really couldn't understand that I'm happiest sharing my sexuality with just one special man. One other thing that has stuck in my mind is a conversation I had with my ex prior to posting on here- and I don't remember if I put this in a prior post- was the last time he spontaneously told me he loved me. This was in February of '09. I had come back from a night out with a single male. This started off all wrong- the reason for going is I learned that acting out sexually gets positive reaction from him, it wasn't because I really wanted to f*** another guy. Anyways- I wasn't happy when I got home because I felt really used by this guy. I told my ex at this point that I wanted to stop because I felt like a hooker who was too stupid to charge. He looks me in the eye and says "but I love you when you do that! It was just a bad night, just get back out there and try again!" Anyways, to me that conversation is indicative of the mind-games my H used to get what he wanted. I tell him I feel like a stupid hooker, and he says he loves me for it. No wonder I was so messed up. In counseling, my ex explained that what he really wanted was a wife who could speak up for herself and not be afraid of the process of resolving difference of opinions. It turns out that he really couldn't handle a wife speaking out. When i did speak out at the counseling, he told me privately afterward that I wasn't really that good. In summary, it comes down to control issues, immaturity and not listening. Just be sure this is something you BOTH really want. Take cared everybody. Thank you for listening, both now and last year. You have been a great help in helping me consider what I needed to do. Hugs- Bunny
  2. Hi CrazyKatie- I didn't want to use divorce as a threat. I finally told him what I needed and why, and if he accepts that, it's because he values our marriage, not out of fear. I figured when I mention divorce, it won't be open for discussion, it'll be an announcement only. Maybe that was the wrong tactic, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. I thought it was a small step forward that he is willing to even step foot inside a counselor's office with me. Maybe the counselor will be able to help facilitate a more open dialogue between us, maybe not. I have to be able to say I tried it. Also, I have been wanting to have this discussion for almost a year now. However, my father-in-law died suddenly in October, with a tremendous amount of family trauma as a result (I didn't want to add to DH's pain by forcing the discussion or leaving while he was so down). Things are finally calming down a little, and he was bringing it up, so this month seemed like a good time. We'll see how this plays out over the next couple weeks, and I'll be able to make a final decision.
  3. Hello- here’s an update for anyone interested. First off, I just wanted to say that “Yes”, I viewed the option of being alone and all the associated turmoil to our family that a divorce would cause as worse than dealing with a swinging marriage that I didn’t want. Yes, I was too scared to get out. Not that I was afraid of violence- please don’t think that. I was scared about the fights regarding the kids and the marital assets, of the financial consequences, of being alone. Still scared about that but willing to face it now. This weekend, I finally worked up some courage and clearly told DH that I wanted to return to a regular, traditional marriage for all the reasons previously mentioned before. I never dropped a bomb about divorce. I’m giving this one last shot- told him he didn’t have to make any decision immediately, think it over, and go ahead and f*** a few if he thought that would him decide- whether he considered it a last fling, or research to make sure he knew what he was giving up, or whatever he wanted to consider it. I told him that I honestly wouldn’t hold it against him while he decided. His response: “I need variety- just like I don’t want to order the same thing all the time at a restaurant. I can tell you what you want to hear, but I can’t say that in 3 months, or 6 or 12, that I won’t reach a point where I can’t take it anymore and would have to do something about it.” So I got a cheating threat- that’s really nice. Part two of the conversation: he turns it all around- this is supposedly all because of my “insecurities”. We need to “fix” those, and then return to the swinging discussion. 1) “After all, you were 100 times better when on Paxil, and REALLY need to go back on it.” 2) “After all, how many friends do you really have?” That was a low blow- I don’t have many, but the ones I do have are very dear to me. 3) “And I know you consider _______ a friend, but does she really consider you a friend back? I don’t think so” Another low blow- we are best friends and it goes both ways. 4) He wants a more active social life and I’m an impediment to that- i.e. hosting frequent get-togethers with friends and becoming regulars at a bar. I am not excited about those ideas but I am willing to work at it. Family circumstances haven’t been such that we had much time for those and I admit I don’t do well with people I don’t know. Not that he is willing to give up swinging if I become a more frequent partier... Yes, I am a quiet, shy person, a homebody, and don’t do well in large groups. I am fairly easily intimidated and a worrier. I have never been a social butterfly and never will be. DH isn’t real good at being social either- we’re both big-time introverts and he finds that incredibly frustrating about himself. I’m happy with myself, my friends and family, not with my marriage. OK, fine, DH will come tell my counselor just what he told me. She will hear his point of view so she hears more than just mine. But I’m not going back on meds, I can tell you that right now. I’ve already discussed that with the therapist, and she agrees they are not needed. We all have our issues, and I realize this whole thing was a diversionary tactic. But I still manage to fall for it at the time- I was a mess by the time we were done talking. His final response: I am so happy that you are taking my concerns about you seriously. Gee, thanks... I pointed out to DH that even if we “fix” me, we still have the whole swinging issue. “We’ll discuss that later”, he says. I’m not changing my mind, I won’t. We may end up divorced yet, but at least I will be able to say I tried. Thanks to everybody who listened.
  4. I have been scared to death of getting a divorce. I should have stood firm years ago, but didn't out of fear and lived with the results. I've been building the strength to change my situation now- it's been an ongoing process for about a year. We are both the passive-aggressive types, not good at expressing what we feel, and he's the stronger of the two of us. It's been hard for me to stand up and say what I want, but I'm trying- and he's not used to that. After last night, a final conversation about swinging is the only next step, I know that. We've set out our positions, but we have to set out the final resolution. I've been tap-dancing around it for a long time, stalling the inevitable, but it's time. Over the last couple months, I think I've gotten myself to a place where I can go through with a divorce if it comes to that- emotionally and financially. And I appreciate the collective kick in the pants to get going with that conversation. Thanks.
  5. I'm sorry- I didn't mean to sound like I was whining and complaining. After our conversation last night, I was very unsure of myself and needed to hear if my feelings were valid or not. 2x4's to the head are accepted if needed... (I felt like I was being told my feelings were just plain wrong or that I shouldn't feel that way.) The current situation is that I'm taking a break from the lifestyle while I'm thinking things over and he can go do whoever he wants at the moment , just leave me out of it (my attempt to prevent him from suffering on my account while I figure things out). His preference is for us to continue playing as a couple, but that's something that's out of the question for me. Second choice is to continue on his own. For a long time, I have felt like bait in this whole thing, as we both know his chances are far better if I'm with him. I want the monogamous relationship we had at the beginning but that doesn't seem to be an option. I don't want to share my husband or be shared myself. I'm sorry if that sounds like petty jealousy but I had thought sex would be special and reserved between us as a married couple, but the rules changed on me. I don't want to be a swinger, and never did, and I'm working on building up the strength to tell him that- I am not good at speaking up for myself and I am very scared about the possible consequences. We have two kids, 18 and 16, and their needs will be the overriding consideration in all this, no matter what happens. Again, I'm sorry if I sounded like I'm whining, there just aren't many people around whom you can talk to about a situation like this or to bounce ideas off of. Thank you for listening, and I'll continue to work on building up my backbone.
  6. I posted previously about the swinging history of my husband and me in another thread. It hasn't been pretty. I've been talking to H about our feelings regarding the whole matter the last couple days, and we're at a stalemate. I can't handle watching him with another women and would be content to leave the lifestyle entirely. H points out that I have had some good times with it, he has had some good times, why can't we have good times together in the lifestyle? To him it's not just the sex- he says he also enjoys the atmosphere of the clubs, the sexy, edgy vibes that people give out there, the thrill of going against norms. And don't I enjoy refusing to become the frumpy wife that a lot of his friends have? I pointed out that the occasions when I had the most fun were the ones when I was by myself- I can only enjoy it if he's out of sight, out of mind- can't do it with him. Couple activities I have problems with. He asks why I would be willing to give up having that fun? I've pointed out to him that I can live without this and be content with one man for the rest of my life- I don't need this and it's not working for me as a couple. We can find social outlets elsewhere. His response: he believes it's made us stronger as a couple and really improved our sex lives. He has the best sex with me after being with someone else. I believe the total opposite: I have put a wall up around me that keeps me distant from him emotionally and sex afterwards feels really off. I have asked him previously which was more important to him- me or the freedom to have a variety of swing partners. He won't answer that because he feels I'm painting him into a corner to say he'll drop it for me- and claims he could easily ask the reverse: if H was the most important thing to me, then I would be willing to do this. Thing is- that's exactly why I've done it this long (6 or 7 years), and I can't anymore. We're at a stalemate- has anyone else had these kind of discussions/impasses? Am I making too much of the whole situation and should just go along with it like I have been?
  7. Thank you everyone for the moral support. I am taking everyone's advice to heart, and thinking carefully about what I want to do and how to proceed. I have a counselor who is helping me with each step, and one of the attorneys at my office does domestic work and has been giving me the legal info I need. (Not that I didn't already know it- it's just different when it's you and not a client...) If I was, I didn't mean to be a downer on this thread- the title and question really hit a nerve for me. Thank you to everyone for listening and caring- I needed that! Love to all- SpyBunny
  8. I knew I didn't want to be a swinger when my husband first asked about it, and I'm still hold that feeling. Here's the background- H and I will have our 20th anniversary next month but I'm not sure we'll make it to 21. We nearly got divorced about 7 years ago- H felt like he was of a father figure in our marriage and wanted a more "equal partner". I had no idea that he was feeling that way, and it sent me reeling. I was a stay at home mom at the time, and I panicked about the kids and income if we divorced. I started Indiv Counseling and went on Paxil after this- H thought I needed to work on self-esteem issues, plus I had some bad anxiety from the D threat. I stayed on it longer than I needed to because H thought it was helping my "social anxiety". We tried some Marriage Counseling but H thought that the counselor was a crock. Looking back on it now- I was jumping through all the hoops that H wanted to make sure he stayed- Medication being a big hoop. Another hoop- H wanted us to be swingers. He had nagged me about this for 2 or 3 years before the D threat, saying it was just sex, what's the big deal, why not a little variety? My first thought was I love YOU- I don't want someone else! I held onto that for a couple years. During this period when I was feeling emotionally beat up (and on medication!), I finally gave up the fight about it and agreed to try it. I figured we would meet this couple, nothing would happen, we could say we tried and he'd be off my back about it. It didn't work out that way- full swap happened. I could see where the evenings activities were going, and I didn't see a way out. I didn't think NO was an option- H was so excited for this- I knew it would crush him if I backed out. So I drank a lot of goldschlaeger which helped numb things. After the activities were over, I ran to the bathroom and threw up- from the alcohol and the shock of what happened. After we got home, H was feeling "extremely close" to me (in contrast to my emotional sickness), and decided that was a good time to tell me about the one night stands he had while we were in the near-divorce period. All I could say was "Oh.." No screaming, no crying, just numb... A hell of a night. There was no going back after that night. Up until that night, I thought I had been his one and only lover- now there were 4 (me, two one-night stands, and the swing partner). I tried going along with the swinger lifestyle over the last few years, but it made me miserable while it made him happy. It hurts me to see him with another woman, whereas he found it exciting to see me with another man. I didn't want other men, but tried to convince myself that this was something I could do. It didn't work- sometimes the other women could see that in my eyes- a couple of women even pointed it out to H, but he wanted me to keep trying. (While this was going on, I went back to school, got a paralegal certificate to add to my bachelors degree and got a nice job as a paralegal at a law firm downtown. That helped my confidence more than anything.) Over the last couple years, H wanted to branch out from swinging as a couple, to also include swinging separately. Again, I foolishly agreed. I met a couple of nice guys, and started having an EA with both of them. There were no secrets with them, they knew exactly what I was doing. One was even in a similar situation with his own wife. It made me realize what I missing with H- I hadn't realized it before then but I had been distancing myself from him emotionally as a way to deal with the swinging. At this time, H felt that I was retreating into my "shell" again and thought i needed to start taking meds again. No one else in my life thought this- just him- not coworkers, friends, family. I see that he mistook my withdrawal from him specifically as withdrawal from life in general. I started going back to IC in Feb to figure out what I want out of my marriage. Counselor agreed meds were not necessary for me. I can't keep going with the swinging- I told H that I was taking a break from it while i was going to IC. As a compromise, I told him he could f*** whoever he wanted in the meantime, just keep me out of it. I don't think he has, but I know he keeps checking profiles... he'll do it in front of me- he'll work on his laptop while we're sitting in bed. Recently I asked him which was more important to him- our marriage or the freedom to be a swinger. He said he couldn't answer that- he loves me, but he also loves "variety". The weird thing is that we have a good sex life as it is- 3 or 4 times a week. For me it's just sex at this point. The passion is gone from me- I can't kiss him, there is no non-sexual contact, and I just don't have much to say to him. I have really turned my emotions off when it comes to him. Our son graduates HS at the end of May, and I'm holding off any further discussions about swinging until then. After that, I plan to give the ultimatum- me or swinging. But part of me doesn't want to give the ultimatum, and just leave. I don't trust that if he chooses the marriage that he won't erupt again in a few years with buried resentments about it. and I have a lot of resentments of my own right now. Is it so bad to want to keep sex between husband and wife? I thought that was special for us- now I know it's not special to him. His rationale: with others it's just sex, with me it's lovemaking. I can't accept that- I miss the bond we used to have and I'm not sure that it can be recovered, and if it can't- i want to move on. I don't want any drama before the graduation- this is our son's time to shine. Afterwards, this summer is gonna be rough. If anyone has any thoughts, I'm open. In summary- I knew I wasn't a swinger from the get-go, and that's not changing. I'm sorry this post is so long- Thank you for letting me put my thoughts are there. I've been exploring this site trying to understand where my husband is coming from- again, Thank you.
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