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Ave Satanas

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About Ave Satanas

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  • Birthday 06/09/1988

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    Taken Male
  • Location
    California

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    CoolestPeopleEver

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  1. I just had one of the weirdest, funniest situations of my swinging experience occur last night. We went to a (vanilla) party, hosted by a (non-vanilla) friend, with whom we've had some experience. We're chilling, flirting in our usual manner. We've always flirted like this, even before we got into the lifestyle, and I guess it was a sign of where we were headed. We ended up talking in the backyard with the host of the party and this very pretty girl there. She's asking about us, and out of nowhere says "are you two, like, swingers or something?" . We answered truthfully, which lead to a bunch of questions. The girl was very obviously curious. In the end, she asked if she could come home with us that night to watch us have sex. Just watch. We said yes, and headed back inside, where the girl and I sat at a table. She was in the process of rifling through her purse when out of it fell a leather bound bible. I picked it up and was thumbing through it, worrying that she was set on converting us. She noticed my interest, and asked if I was a Christian, to which I responded "Not at all, but it's still interesting. Not to impugn your beliefs, it just isn't my thing". She was perfectly cool with that, and simply asked that I return the bible to her purse when I was done. I skimmed through it for a few minutes more before doing just that. So we escape the party (Me, my SO, the girl, and the host lol) and make our way back to my place. After some fooling around in the pool and some more drinking, the girlfriend and I had sex before the girl and the host. This girl got WAY into it, directing us, nibbling my SO's ear, etc. Once my SO had cum, I proceeded to move to another room, along with the girl so that the host and my SO could fuck. The girl and I get to talking, and she seems to have this notion that I'm much more mysterious than I really am. Earlier in the night, my SO had gotten the girl to kiss me, and of course I was hoping for more. But the girl continues to marvel at what a pseudo-enigma I am, all the while drinking more and more. Through some cosmic series of events, we end up in another room, where the girl suddenly changes. She starts getting really serious, almost angry sounding, going on and on about how I can think I know so much because I swing and because I'm mysterious, etc. But she maintains an air of sexiness, not unlike a really good, aggressive lover can be. After ranting, she proceeds to tackle me to the floor, kissing me aggressively and generally being really sexy. She pins me down (or I let her, whatever) and after a bit more kissing, stays straddled atop me and proceeds to lecture on the error of my ways, and how she'll be there when I'm ready to accept Jesus, and how chaste she is because there's more to life than lust and these carnal sins that I apparently revel in, and on and on and on. After which she'd kiss a bit more. Not to rip on any Christians here at all, but in the moment, it was one of the funniest situations I'd ever been in. This cycle continued over the course of the night: She'd be really aggressive, pushing and pinning and scratching, then really kinky, making out aggressively and pulling my hands up to her chest, then talking, about how chaste she was and she wasn't having sex because she was saving herself for God, and then back to square one. At the climax of all this, she mentioned how I was corrupting her, and insisted that I show her just how much I could corrupt her, splaying herself across the bed. The way she was saying it, she was begging to be fucked. Sadly, I had that awful realization that she was really, monumentally drunk, and that if I were to actually go through with it, I would be less of a man. So I told her right there that I wasn't going to have sex with her, and explained why. She proceeded to become very cuddly and talk about how sweet it was and so on and so on. I took her home this morning and the girlfriend and I hope to have more experiences with her. Not a bad night, but an interesting, and hopefully funny one.
  2. For my SO and myself, we prefer separate rooms because we have had situations with first-timers where the guys had difficulty getting going when other guys are in the room. Most guys we've dealt with tend to get nervous and feel like the situation is a competition or something (obviously not the case), a problem that is only made worse when I can get going and they can't. It makes it easier on everyone to be in separate rooms.
  3. It's rather funny that I found this poll tonight because I'm scheduled for a foursome this weekend that had to be put off because the other guy involved is on the verge of breaking up with a girlfriend but has yet to do it. Not as bad as a someone cheating in a marriage, but in any case you're asking for drama by playing with the unfaithful.
  4. So I've only just read this, and I can't resist adding my own bit of inside humor to this thread by telling you this: DON'T HIT THE GUY. I hope I'm not the only one who understands/laughs at that.
  5. I honestly don't think I'm a violent person at all. Yeah, I hit a guy, but I just think I'm different in the sense that hitting a person can sometimes be worth the hassle. I'm not going to get involved in every fight I see, and this is the first time in a good 6 or 7 years that I've been the one to throw the first punch, but I'm not afraid to hit someone. I considered the consequents and deemed it worthwhile. As for a macho attitude... I don't think so, but it doesn't really matter because it's not convincing coming from me. I have a confident attitude, maybe, but not macho. As for maturity... my views on this have already been stated, I'm not going to repeat myself every time someone new questions it.
  6. It's one of those things that we mean to do, but honestly just never get around to. Between both of us working and going to school, when we get time together in which we could take decent pictures of ourselves, we usually have sex instead, honestly. We do have older pictures of the two of us, but they're all of when she was underage (hey now, we've been together for a couple years now!)
  7. Oh your God. I must be a total nightmare... violent because I hit a guy for my making my girlfriend cry... Homophobic despite having a lesbian sister and girlfriend who had played with the girl from this situation... and at 6'2" and a STARTLING 130 pounds, WOW am I hyper-macho or what? Yep. I'm a nightmare.
  8. Since I’m kind of being attacked from all sides, I think that after this last post I’m going to do my best to just avoid speaking anymore. What began as a search for advice has become a bunch of people chastising me for being something that I honestly am not. Yeah, I hit him. And things are cool. I just talked to him a couple of hours ago, and he assured me that everything was fine. If there really isn’t another guy who has ever seen a friend of theirs hurt another friends feelings and given him a punch and a ‘what the hell, dude?’ as a way of showing said friend the error of their ways, then there is a much bigger generational gap than I thought. I don’t go around punching everyone who has ever hurt my girlfriend’s feelings. I don’t think I’d hit any other swinger on the off chance I ended up in that situation again. The fact is that at that particular moment, it was acceptable, and he thinks so too. I’m not sorry. As for them being in love and me being such a dick for ruining what precious little time they had… there’s more to the story than you know. They had only recently gotten back together after a bad breakup involving her cheating on him. I’m not going into any more detail because it’s not really relevant anyway, but it’s sufficient to say that their relationship isn’t nearly as romantic or ideal as many people seem to think. And despite all this, just to clear up a fact that I think might have been lost in the rat race to condemn me: I never once hassled him in ANY way for being so outspokenly in love with his girlfriend. Not even jokingly. But I have mentioned before that he had left the room at one point and his own girlfriend complained that she was getting sick of him being in love with him in the same way that a 2nd grader might profess love for his teacher. And for the record, my own sister is a lesbian, and I love her regardless. Don’t try and make me out to be prejudiced towards homosexuals when they themselves use the term ‘gay’ in the exact same manner that I have. The fact is that this isn’t going to stop me from swinging because I honestly don’t think that I’m wrong here, and whether you want to believe me or not, I’ve never had a problem admitting when I’m wrong. Maybe it’s the medium in which this information is being delivered, but the fact is that no one who can really, honestly say that they know what kind of person I am. Instead, I am made out to be the biggest asshole imaginable. And just as a note to miss Safire, my girlfriend did nothing more in this whole predicament than cry. If you intend on making me anathema to the entire forum, then I beseech you to at least do her the courtesy of not lumping her into the same category as me, whether I’m an asshole or not. She’s a much better person than I think I could ever be. On final notes, I’m not going to defend my friendship with this guy, nor am I going to admit being in the wrong, nor apologize for my actions. I’d like to note that the whole idea of separate rooms was instated with the intention of helping to quell his nerves. I appreciate the help that I DID receive from some people on this board, and while I disagree with many, I respect your opinions. I’d also like to that ncmd_couple for being the one person I can note who gave me even the slightest benefit of a doubt. Their little bit of defense is appreciated more than they could possibly imagine. Thanks for your time. -Ave Satanas
  9. Actually, mentioning that I go by that name was more of an introduction than anything else, it wasn't really relevant to the thread. But if you're curious about the name itself, it is a term used in a religion I practice. I don't name it too much because doing so is akin to trolling anyone who is Christian, and I don't want to alienate myself or anyone else. Suffice it to say that it is written in my bible that practitioners of my religion are welcome to engage in all manner of sexual activity, be it heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual, asexual, or polysexual (which I know isn't a word but should be, because it describes swingers pretty well). I should also take this moment to address something I had missed, which was LikeMinds mentioning that in some of my older posts I had described myself as a jealous, temperamental, and so on. I assure you that this has changed pretty dramatically for the most part. Did I mention that we engaged in MMF activities prior to this current situation that went pretty well. The only reason those stopped is we felt that we were hindering the third party from ever getting a steady girlfriend, and chose to stop for his benefit. I've actually gotten over jealousy completely. The whole protectiveness and temper thing... Look guys, I know I shouldn't have hit him. There were better things to do. I made a bad decision because I was seeing my girlfriend cry, and thankfully got out of it better than I could have. But there are a couple of issues I have, because there seems to be a lot of focus on my maturity because I hit a guy. First, I wouldn't have hit any guy in that situation, but circumstances were different here. I'm still great friends with this guy, I can't stress that enough, and I'm not going to hit him if the exact same thing happens again. Maybe the hitting thing comes with youth and being stupid kids, but I never had any intention of beating him to death or anything. It was a frustration thing, a stupid thing to do, but I refuse to believe that I'm the only guy on Swingers Board who's given another guy a punch in the noggin. I'm having an issue, because while the anonymity here means that's I can safely ask for good advice from everyone, it also ensures that none of you TRULY know me, and I think that it kind of skews your opinion about me and my behavior due to this situation. Honestly, I don't hit dudes every day. I actually spend a lot of time breaking up fights (I work at a middle school), and if it had been any one of you I was swinging with in this situation, I can promise I wouldn't have hit you. It was a friendship thing. I've just now become paranoid that I'm persona non grata because of what I did, and the whole fact that an hour later we were playing video games and everything was cool is being ignored. I want to made sure I'm not thought of too badly.
  10. So I had expected to be told that I shouldn't have hit the guy, that it was bad behavior, immature, etc. I agree there were better paths I could have taken. But at the time, there was no straight 'no' that MEANT 'no', only a shrug off after being put under the assumption that a foursome is exactly what we were there for. And like I mentioned, on my end things were heading that way. I suppose deep down I knew that this guy and I were (and still are!) good enough friends that the hit wouldn't be a huge problem. I suppose that might be because we're younger and will hit one another half the time just for the hell of it. And anyone who knows hockey guys knows that fighting isn't a HUGE thing for us. In the end, the guy later offered to take another hit, saying he himself felt like he had it coming. And I should probably mention to everyone that regardless of what I did that night, odds are that I would never, NEVER hit a member of another swinging party just because they shot down my girlfriend. Had it been someone else, the circumstances would have been different. But as for appearing in good taste, mature, etc... I did not care, and am not sorry. Maybe I'm just stubborn like that. But where maturity might be my problem, some of those who have pointed this out might want to look at ageism as THEIR problem. Sure, bad taste is never good. But neither is a condescending attitude... However, I respect everyone's opinion and appreciate the feedback I've gotten thus far. Especially since it seems like most everyone read the damn thing. That deserves a thank you in itself. So to clear up some individual facts: - we never MADE swingers of friends. From what we had been led to believe, they were swingers already. As for swinging with friends and all that... Eh, it's what we do and I don't think we're changing that. - When we got a straight NO that meant NO, we were actually much better. That's when we went back and just enjoyed sex with one another and were honestly not angry. Everything angry happened before they gave us a straight no. - We don't actually intend to steal this guys girlfriend away, that was actually a joke. I respect the hell out of this guy and would do a lot for him. And with that I've got to go pick up the lady from work. Thanks for the feedback, the cast list (God that was funny. I could use more of that. Every guy likes getting compared to Brad Pitt), and the Fight Club reference. Can't wait for more. I swear I'm more mature than you might be taking me for.
  11. So I guess I'll start this off with a little background information: I go by the name Ave Satanas, and I've been a semi-active member of the swingers board since April of last year. At the time that I joined, I was only curious about the lifestyle, but I soon realized that it was perfect for my SO and me. Things were tricky for us, since both of us are under 21, which meant no clubbing, and we were reluctant to engage in any activity with anyone we didn't know. More problems plagued us, but we made the effort and think we've done pretty well considering we both live with our parents and it's still under wraps (hey man, it's tough being a college student!). Now if you haven't read any of the threads I posted, let me give a quick update: we had engaged in our first group sex activity, a MMF threesome, with a friend of ours. It went fairly well, but since then we have come to the conclusion that the particular friend involved, while a great guy, isn't particularly well suited to swinging. We went on the hunt for a female, since that's what my lady was interested in. In my last post, which was quite a while ago, we were preparing for a threesome with her. Long story short: the whole event crashed and burned. Drama ensued. Thankfully it's over, and I've learned a lot. So now we get to the meat of this blog... A coworker of my girlfriend had piqued our curiosity, and we were considering throwing out the idea of playing with her. Not a minute after we resolved to, the girl's previously unknown boyfriend comes into town for winter break from his school in Alaska. We were pretty disappointed, but my girlfriend met him and said that I would like the guy anyway. She said she had even made a joke about the four of us having an orgy, which he half-jokingly agreed to. So I sent the guy a text message, and we agreed to meet up. (I should probably mention that my girlfriend works at an arena for our cities hockey team with this girl, and since I'm a rabid hockey fan, I attend every game). After the game was over, we met them outside. Sure enough, me and this guy hit it off. Really, REALLY well. It was like he was me in a different skin. Being so immediately comfortable, I figured 'what the hell' and said "So, foursome?". To which he responded, deadly serious "Well, what are you two doing tomorrow?" So we agreed to hang out the next night. We were unsure if the two were serious or not, but we prepared for a good time regardless. The next day, we met them and we all enjoyed a nice dinner. We went back to the guy's house and proceeded to go out to the hot tub. Well, it wasn't long before the two of us guys were able to convince the ladies to undress and get some kissing action going. And right then, we hear his family pull into the driveway. We were all pretty disappointed, and exited the spa. We decided to go grab a coffee, and near the coffee place, we see a cheap hotel. He jokingly says that we could get a hotel room, and so my lady and I take a gamble and say "well, we'll pay if you're interested". Next thing you know, we're in a hotel room, calling our parents to say we're staying with friends. We push the two beds together, and start having fun. First predicament: in all my plans, I had never thought that I would be NERVOUS. Thankfully, he was two, and it became the running gag of the night between the two of us. Eventually he's having sex with his girl and we're doing the same. However, we had yet to swap, and my girlfriend and I were pretty anxious too. So to give the whole situation a kick-start, i suggested that she go over and try getting a little intimate with the guy while he was giving his girlfriend some oral action. Things were looking good, and at some point or another his girl ended up over with me. We got pretty occupied, and soon enough she's on top and we're having fun. That is, until we look over and notice that his nervous problem has come back. Now, I don't have to recount the ENTIRE story, but in the end, my lady never actually had sex with him. Not that he didn't give her any attention, and there were no hard feelings in the end. So the next weekend, I ended up house-sitting for some people I know and ask this guy if he and his girl want to hang out. We don't mention a foursome specifically because we didn't want to make him feel as though that's all we want. But thankfully, he and his girl suggest it again and we end up at this house. Now, a little more background: This is basically the last night we have a shot with the two of them for a while because the next day he's due to go back to Alaska for school. So we've got big plans for the night. Things start off similar to the last time, and we all end up in the same bed (we started out in separate rooms to quell the usual nerves). However, he and his lady seem pretty busy and we're reluctant to ask him. However, we're not really having too much fun because we're growing more and more disappointed by the second. His girlfriend seems to get the idea, but him... not so much. So his girlfriend decides that she needs to leave the room for a little while and heads out, and I suggest to my girlfriend that she attempt to get some action going while I leave the room. Now, before I continue, some more background: his girlfriend is incredibly sexy. Gorgeous. Now obviously I don't think she holds a candle to my girlfriend, but my lady doesn't share my opinion. So me and his girl start getting something going, and we decide to go to a different room while my lady seduces the other guy. We sneak a peek in their room before we go into ours however, and are greeted with a disappointing site: he's laying there, facing away from my dejected looking girlfriend. His girl goes to talk to him, while my girlfriend comes with me to another room. In the other room, she informs me that when she attempted to try getting him to do anything with her, he casually mentioned that he was just waiting for his girlfriend to come back so that the two of them could cuddle. Basically, he very politely told my girlfriend that he didn't want to do anything with her. Now, cuddling wouldn't be such a problem, except that a moment later, we hear the sound of the other two going at it again. Right around then, my girl starts to tear up. She doesn't take any sort of rejection well, and I don't take to seeing her cry well. I hold her for a minute, my blood boiling. In retrospect, it WAS his last night with his girlfriend. But he HAD been the one to suggest a foursome, and it seemed like that plan was out completely. I was starting to feel like I was just there to give them a place to fuck, and on top of that my girlfriend had tears streaming down her face. So I did what I figured any good boyfriend would do in my situation, regardless of how much they liked the other dude. I pulled on my jeans, left the room ("oh, I've just gotta pee, babe. I'll be right back."), marched into the other room, step right up onto the bed, pull the blanket back, and punched him in the head. Hard. Full-on. In the face. He gave the expected "what the fuck", to which I responded "that's for making my girlfriend cry, you fucking dick." I pulled back for another blow and he says "wait, she's crying?" "well of course she's crying, you stupid idiot, she feels like you rejected her. You just shot her down" Now, I know i had just punched this guy, and I know that it wasn't as honorable as I would have liked it, but if you ask either one of us now, we'd tell you that even at that moment, even RIGHT AFTER I hit him, we were still friends, and good friends at that. So, in lieu of hitting him again, I let him and his lady rush into the other room to console my girlfriend. He apologized profusely, saying that he didn't mean to hurt my girl's feelings, he just was caught up in the moment with his girl. I thought things were getting better, but as we all lay in that bed, he starts talking. Normally not a problem, except basically everything coming out of his mouth was "isn't my girlfriend so pretty, I love her more than anything, she's everything to me", etc. My thoughts: 'hey, if I wanted to hear this, I'd have rented a Hugh Grant movie. I signed up for a foursome, goddammit' But, against my better judgment, I put up with it. For a good hour and a half. To that point that when he left the room for a minute, even his girlfriend remarked at how sickeningly sweet. Now, and I'm quoting this from a friend, I'm cool with love. But not this chick-flick-gay-love. In the end, my lady and I went to our room while they went to theirs. So far, still no foursome. We're kind of pissed still, and my girlfriend says "well, he said he didn't mean for me to feel rejected... but I mean, nonetheless, I was". And we just start complaining to one another about how disappointing our night has become. So she goes into the other room, where they've started back up again. And she asks flat out if the foursome is going to happen or not. They dance around the question for a good five minutes, going on tangents and talking about just being 'so caught up in the moment' etc. My girlfriend tells them after all this that they've yet to answer, and he finally says "so you're asking if we're going to swap partners tonight?" I'll give you a moment to let it sink in. We nod, and he answers "tonight, honestly, probably not" So we go to bed, fuming angry. A few minutes later, they come in, and proceed with basically the same thing they did with my SO the first time. Sure, the apologies are nice, but in the end, things are the same: nothing has happened and he's still in gay-love. After they leave, my girl and I at least had a little fun with each other before going to sleep. The next morning the other two come wake us up super early, because I've got to take him to the airport. No problem, I had agreed to that. I even sat through the half-hour long, chick-flick-style goodbye between he and his girl. Mind you, I'm feeling a little better now that I've had some sleep. I'm less angry at him, and having talked to him a little, I'm convinced that a foursome is still possible the next time he's in town. So he leaves, and there are absolutely no hard feelings. His girl, my girl, and I head back to the house. We grab some breakfast, and all decide to lay down for a nap. Yes, all of us in the same bed. Hey now, we're all fully-clothed the entire time. Don't give me that look. In conclusion, here's what I'm thinking: 1) A foursome isn't out. The two of them were just really trying to enjoy their last night together for a while. 2) He's a good guy, it's just situations like this made me dislike him some. But in the end, he's still a great friend of mine. 3) His girlfriend, having been much more open to swapping that night than he was, is still awesome. In all honestly, my lady and I both harbor the fantasy that one day she'll leave him and come be our live-in girlfriend. She's a great girl, and we'd do a lot for her. Of course, we've known her longer, so... We have cut them out, but we're keeping an eye out for new playmates. I've written this whole lengthy, terribly unstructured blog to basically see what my friends here on swingers board think of the situation. So: comments, advice, feedback, flames, anything? Thanks for reading this far, if you have. I appreciate any feedback. -Ave Satanas P.S. This started out as a blog but became too long, so I apologize if it reads weirdly due to that.
  12. Thanks, Tybee, you really helped me realize how much that still bothered me. And on a side note, I actually drove by where the incident happened, and the driving school has since closed down, which is good. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
  13. Looking back on my last post, I feel really terrible for how I was being that day. I suppose I didn't realize how much I was pushing my opinion on her, and I'd like to thank Tybee, Sereneiders, and Socolais for their sagacious feedback. I really think that it has helped me grow as a person. In other news, just when I was thinking my time on this forum might be over, everything completely changed on me. The girlfriend and I spent some time together without having any sex at all for a couple of days, in favor of relaxing and enjoying one another's company. I got over my cold for the most part, and all in all I think we were both feeling better. And then tonight came along, she came over after work, I wasn't even counting on getting any, and somehow it headed in that direction. She started talking about all these new things we could try pertaining to a variety of mutual fetishes (with I won't get into, seeing as how this post is going to be racy enough), and after dinner, we... well.. started going at it. Then, not long into the process, she began to talk (Yes, on occasion we will stop everything to say something) of a threesome, describing (as though she desired it) what she wanted from such an act. I enjoyed and encouraged the behavior, being sure to point out throughout that I loved only her, that I only wanted what she wanted in this, etc. It even got to the point where we were naming specific people, and in the end we both acknowledged that neither one of us was jealous. It was all very satisfying for both of us, right up until a roommate walked in... Thankfully that wasn't as big a problem as it could be. It was mostly just funny. It might not seem like much, and eventually I might want more, but for now... This is good. It's a nice compromise. Afterwards, she even put some more thought into her whole bisexual curiosity, which was just frosting on the cake. I made sure to remind her that she has all the time in the world. Later, the conversation turned to the topic of our mutual past, and I seized the opportunity to pull out Tybee's card, and brought up the whole molestation thing. I told her how much her reaction had frightened and hurt me, and that I never truly received any closure, and as a result the whole situation still bothered me a lot. For one reason or another, she kept saying that she forgave me, and I had to come out and say that she shouldn't need to forgive me, I had done nothing wrong. I told her I wasn't looking for forgiveness, but rather an apology. Even then, she said that she couldn't honestly apologize for her reaction because "she was mad at the time". I had to point out of a situation when I was young where I punched my dad because I thought he was my little brother, and once I discovered that I was wrong, I felt sorry. It took some more explaining, but she apologized, and for the first time, I feel as though the whole situation is finished. I'll keep you all posted, but for now I want to thank you all again for your help, because it has helped me in more ways than I can count.
  14. So the first big news in awhile... Despite my desire to wait to bring the whole swinging idea up until after her period, it got brought up again tonight... and it didn't go well. But for people here to fully comprehend the story, I have to explain a bit of back-story. So crack open a drink, get some cheez-its out, or go and pee now, because this could take a while. About six months after my lady and I started dating, whilst I was still a minor, I was subjected to a very unfortunate molestation by my driving instructor (as I was getting my driver's license at the time). This driving instructor was very unfortunate looking herself, not someone I'd ever be remotely interested in, but nonetheless, it send my girl into a frenzy, crying and yelling that I had given this woman some idea that molesting me would be alright. Mind you, the perpetrator had told me not long before that her boyfriend left her, she wasn't great-looking (like I'd mentioned) and I have an annoying ability to make people laugh. So from this, she got the idea that it'd be fine to push me against a wall, force her tongue into my mouth, and grab my hand and slap in on her chest. The second I realized what was happening, I pushed her off, and I said I needed to go home. During that ride she decided that she would point out that by having her kiss me, I had cheated on my girlfriend. This caused me to become racked with guilt, and when I told me girlfriend I was honestly on the verge of hysteria. And against everything I had expected, my girl DIDN'T believe me, and agreed that I had cheated. It took me a long time to get it through to her that it wasn't something I had ever wanted to go through, went through the whole process of filing a report with the police, and it's safe to say I have recovered. Now, as I'd mentioned when I started this thread, I was once a very jealous person. I'm still quite protective and, dare I say, territorial about her ("She's MINE!!!"). Well, a couple of months back, my lady went through a stage where she would kiss other girls. Not especially passionately, but not a peck either. Some might have found it sexy... Hell, now I find it sexy. But at the time, it really bothered me. She accused me of cheating and put me through a miniature hell over being molested by some woman in her 30s, but if I freak out over her kissing another girl her age, I'm being a bit unreasonable? Fuck that, I say. I wasn't ready for her to experiment with something like that, and it's unfair. So tonight, in the midst of messing around with one of my best friends (the very one I'd mentioned before, who is in a loving relationship with HIS girlfriend), he and I decided that we were going to do some of that crazy dry-hump dancing that the kids are so fond of these days, sandwiching my lady between us, and I jokingly said "See? This is hot already!" Bad fucking idea. She responded with what sounded like a calm, serious "Well why don't you invite HIM into it?" It seemed like an opportune moment, so I told her "Eh, I think it'd be better if we just let someone watch us have sex, or maybe had sex in the same room as them while THEY'RE having sex, or something." Or something, indeed. Moments later, she was asking if I was bored with our sex life. I'm not, mind you. It's great the way it is, I was just trying to add something new that I thought she'd be interested in, and I pointed this out. I even gave a not-very-good analogy about how I love salt 'n' vinegar potato chips, and could eat them every day, but if someone offered me barbecue in addition, I'd probably try it. Bad, I know, but it was the best thing I could come up with off the top of my head. Then, kind of out left field, she began accusing me of not thinking that the sex that we have is special, that I was bored with her and just wanted someone else, and so on. I explained to her that it wasn't like that at all, but it still led to her being KIND OF pissed off (about a six on a one-to-ten scale), enough that she wouldn't hug me or anything to that effect for the next few minutes. She got over it eventually, though, and our night wore on. Here, I must explain something else. Since the start of our relationship, I have never once said "I love you, too". It has always been "I love you", returned with "I love you". Call me crazy or picky or ridiculous, but adding "too" to the end of it seemed to make the whole affection... obligatory. She understood this, and it made our love seem more real every time we said it. If say, my mother or a good friend of ours were to give us though the old "I love you", they'd get an "I love you, too". Ours was special. So as we're leaving our venue, we're saying our goodbyes to friends, hugging, chatting, the usual. One particular friend of hers came to say goodbye. This guy is interesting indeed: he's very... flamboyant. He's been long suspected of being gay, and while he's never come out of the closet, it's the general consensus that he was just that. So I have no real reason to be jealous of him. But nonetheless, it bothered me when, as he hugged her goodbye, he said (out-of-character-ly) "I love you" and she responded with an "I love you". No "too" in there, and I noticed. But I did my best to ignore it, and didn't say anything about it at the time. Later that night, at a more appropriate time, she asked if anything was bothering me, and I told her how I had felt about the whole goodbye situation. She first tried to make a joke of it, bringing up how "he's gay, so it shouldn't really matter". I wasn't in the mood for it to be made into a joke, and tried to explain why it bothered me so much. She said, not sounding sorry at all "Well, I'm sorry, but it's instinctive for me". It came down to me saying that I didn't want excuses, and she claimed she wasn't making any. I explained to her that the alleged instinctive-ness of the whole thing seemed like an excuse to me, and she exploded, saying "You know what, fuck you, I'm NOT sorry." It led to a looooooooooooong silence indeed. Later, she caught my eye and gave me the angry "what?" (you know what I mean by that) and I tried talking to her again. I explained that I felt it was unfair that when I suggest we spice up our sex life, in a totally non-romantic manner, she stops talking to me and showing affection, but when another guy tells her he loves her and she responds in a manner usually reserved for me, if I get angry then I'm being ridiculous and she decides she isn't sorry. It was eerily reminiscent of the whole molestation/girl-kissing scenario. She gave me her same response of how she felt I was diminishing how special our sex life was, and how she wasn't comfortable bringing others into our sex life. I explained that I didn't share that view, that I saw it differently, but it became very obvious that the only way the argument would end was if I stopped talking about my swinging fantasies. I explained that it would really bother me if I couldn't openly discuss something around her. It seems to me that an inability to communicate about something makes for an unhealthy relationship. But by now, she was so weary from the argument that she had basically written off any sort of experimentation. She left to head home not long after, and I half-faked feeling better so as to not end the night on a bad note. At this point, I'm more than a little worried. I can already imagine it being difficult for me to avoid bringing up something that I'm interested in. And who's to say that experimentation stops at this? While sex isn't everything, I'm not naive enough to pretend that an unvaried 'missionary-with-whipped-cream-on-holidays' sex life is going to suffice. The conflict here is that, despite the current situation, I love this girl more than I have ever loved anything. I have no desire to end the relationship, no desire to find someone new. I want no one but her, I just want her to have a more open mind. Part of me feels that I'm being unreasonable, and part of me feels that SHE is. But I know I don't want to propose to this woman (something I'm currently planning for) and know that I'm going to go forever not trying something that I want to try. I'm willing to give it time, yes, but I'm not going to forget about it. So any opinion, whether for me or against me, is welcome. Do I have a good point here, or do I just want to have my cake and have it try new things too? PS I'm sorry about the lack of structure to this post, I'm getting a cold and my work is suffering because of it.
  15. First up, thank you all SO MUCH for your feedback. I appreciate it like you would not believe. In response to what I've read thus far, many suggest going to a club. I've managed to avoid it thus far, but I'm pretty sure we're both too young to get in, although I could be wrong. Suffice to say we're both under 21. I'm not too sure on the rules there. Also, it seems to be less of a casual thing in my particular case. The idea of someone we only recently met wasn't too appealing to either of us. We actually are preferential to the idea of a trusted friend, like those I mentioned before, who would find the occasion as special as us. I don't worry as much about Sereneider's suggestion that I could ruin the friendship, because it seems easier to trust a friend to simply break the whole thing off should it become uncomfortable for any member of the party, and I can safely say that in a jealousy situation I can trust myself to think logically and reason that in the end, if something occurred, I SUGGESTED the idea, and cannot hold anyone responsible but myself. Furthermore, and this will sound absolutely selfish on the part of me and my lover, but the friends we've considered are in a weird null zone where in the unlikely scenario that the situation caused our friendship to end, it wouldn't have a profound impact on our lives. I don't know if Sereneider has had a bad experience when having friends involved in swinging, or if it's really common, so any other viewpoints would be good. In the end, it's more about trust for me than anything else, and as much as I hate to say it, it takes me a long time to start trusting people. I would also like to note that this does not diminish my appreciation of your opinion, sereneider. As for time, I wholeheartedly agree, and haven't brought up the idea since the last time I talked to her, not wanting to make her uncomfortable. I am more than willing to invest whatever amount of time is necessary before even trying any sort of experimentation. My sudden ideas just kind of pop up, and I wanted outside opinions. As was mentioned, I definitely do have a tendency to overthink things, as does she, and will ask a lot of questions in hopes of multiple, multi-faceted answers. Thankfully, they've all been great thus far. One particular response from nwincouple mentioned that having sex in front of a third party might cause the third party might cause them to feel left out. As of now, the third party that I had in mind wouldn't, I think, feel that way, mostly because she's had something of a crush on the both of us for a while, and we certainly wouldn't stop her from, say, masturbating to the scene or something to that effect. I assumed she would, and it could be used as a way of seeing all of our responses to it, and judging from there whether or not we would like to go a step further. I should point out that I do not plan to make that decision at that time, as I know that people tend to make rash decisions in the heat of passion, and it is something that needs to be thought out with a clear head. Any further feedback is welcome and would be highly appreciated, and I'll be sure to keep you posted as details unfold.
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