belgiumCouple

@Bernett69: we wouldn't be comfortable with that. Our swinging life is completely separated from our vanilla life. As far as we know non of our family or vanilla friends know we swing, and we want to keep it that way. That being said, we invited our closest swinging friends to our wedding anniversary, but they knew we wanted to keep this a secret and behaved well (well actually they stayed until the other guests left and we had a mini-swing party afterwards). We did arrange to have the swingers on one table and the vanilla friends/family on other tables One small fun fact: Two of the swinging couples we invited were lifetime friends (even had been on holidays together) but didn't know the other couple were swingers... guess their friendship entered a new level that night

We slowly got into swinging (almost 1 year between our first club visit and our first swap), but we had no list of rules. We felt what the other one wanted and what not. After almost 1 year of visiting clubs and (mostly my wife) not feeling comfortable enough to actually have sex with someone else or seeing me having sex, our first experience was full swap, and our third was full swap, separate rooms (large playrooms to crowded, small play rooms in that club not big enough for 4), so we proceeded fairly quickly after that (and yet never really discussed on rules, just a feeling. I must say that we're over 20 years together). We never thought about swinging separately or giving a hall pass until we met a great couple, where my wife and him had great sex, but the other wife and me didn't click sexually (we otherwise had a great click). Since that wife already had a hall pass, she gave her hubby one as well to swing with my wife. At first my wife didn't want to, but I told her I was perfectly comfortable with that. She thought I would need compensation in the form of a hall pass for myself (to stray around in a club alone) and she wasn't comfortable with that. But when I assured her I didn't need one she accepted it. They date about every 2 months. About 2 years later she gave one to me. Situation: a couple we swing regularly with had introduced a female friend into the swinging (actually into a threesome at their house, but they wanted to introduce her to more). She was comfortable with them but not with other couples,maybe an extra guy... That couple asked my wife (they know she has a hall pass for one guy) if I have one as well. She told them: not until now but I trust you and him enough, so go ahead. My wife was quite nervous the first time I went. But was afterward very comfortable with it. She even told me I could date with the woman alone, without that couple. I've been seeing her for almost a year now (quite often sometimes 2x a month), and it's a great addition to the swinging my wife and I have. It seems however that other swinger couples we know have more problems with this, than we ever had. One contacted my wife behind my back to tell her I was having an 'affair' but lied to them saying I had a hall pass. He didn't lie, he does, she told them. They still think it's not true but it's my wife way of 'saving' our marriage... which has never been bad, but is better than ever. Another couple stopped seeing us because giving each other a hall pass is 'not natural'. I'm not sure if we both would ever give each other a 'wildcard card hall pass" : to go out and pick up a stranger, but we both say why not if we're comfortable with that. At this moment none of us feel the need for it (but we don't judge couple who do).

All STDs are bad, but for us there is only 1 we're really afraid of : HIV. We checked around and most studies say: - Oral sex, no problem as long there is no ejaculation in the mouth - penetration: always use a condom So we do not use condoms for oral sex, but ask men not to come is Ms BC her mouth, for vaginal or anal (which we rarely do) we always use condoms (*). (*) except for one couple we trust for 100%, and who also swings the way we do in terms of condom use... Other STD's, well that is a risk we take as most of them are easily treatable (we're both vaccinated for Hep A/B)

hmm what should we say to my parents : We're going to Florida for 2 weeks and the kids and my parents are coming with us. We want to go to a swing club on a saturday night but don't know what excuse to use... (we are not people who go to night clubs, disco's...) We thought about saying that we would go to a dinner show but what if they ask how it was and I think most dinner shows won't last until 3-4 am

Just reread our post and the sentence above may be confusing. We didn't want to imply that the HepB+C vaccine provides any protection other than for Hep B/C, but we wanted to say that condoms provide protection that is worth while (at least to us)

With all respect to those who differ... but for us it is condoms or NO sex. I'm very surprised that so many of the people here go bareback, there are so many campaigns again now (at least here in Belgium) to make people more responsible (safe sex) and most of the swingers clubs also do actively promote safe sex. Especially now that studies have shown that more and more people are getting HIV infected during the last years as a result of less safe sex campaigns. Even if a condom would only provide 1% more protection than without (and believe me correctly used it's a lot more than 1%), we would still use them for AIDS alone... As for other diseases, we're both Hep B+C vaccinated and while not protecting to each an every disease it still offers protection worthwhile. We even find it amusing sometimes to add some play to put them on, and they definitely postpone orgasm too, so we can go all night so they're really a part of the play session. As for oral sex, we don't like condoms there but still use them. We both get tested about once year, sometimes a bit earlier, but we see testing as a way to check things out, not to prevent things. NandTfromCA wrote a bit earlier: "I have been repeatedly surprised (by anonymous polling) to find out how many couples either consistently or inconsistently play condomless, and how little couples have ever heard of someone leaving the lifestyle because of an STD. Along those lines, has anyone every head FIRST HAND, or even second hand, of a swinger contracting HIV? (in this question- hearing it from someone that has it is first hand, hearing it from someone that heard it from the person who has it is second hand)." Ok, we haven't heard of a swinger contacting HIV, but if you tested positive what would you do? Announce it to the whole world or keep it for yourselves (and continue swinging or not?). We know that some people would take their responsibility and tell it to their partners, but a lot more wouldn't! Besides some couples don't do private dates and go to clubs, have 1x sex with another couple and never see them again, so they wouldn't be able to contact them about HIV or any STD... Anyway we're NEVER gonna take the risk of playing bareback, and yes we know that even condoms don't provide 100% protection, but as someone else stated: riding a motorbike with or without a helmet??? (We ride with, and never without our protective clothing and booth, even though in the summertime it's quite hot: safety before pleasure also there).

I'm not talking about SLS or any other American/international Swingers site here because we don't have experience with that. We're on a local swingers site and certs are anonymous there. Certs are only a way to show people that you are genuine and can only be given by couples who are paid members and have 3 certs or more themselves. Other couples see that you have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or more than 5 certs. No more than 5 because people don't have to know how many other couples you met (so can't be accused of being sluts ) I think the system works quite well eliminating a lot of single males posing as a couple and the general opinion (and ours as well) is that you have to be a little bit more careful with profiles without any certs (we have a woman to woman phone call before we meet). Besides the certs the site also has a 'guestbook'. When you Certify a couple you can also write something into their guestbook. As the receiving couple you can choose to show their comment or not show it to other couples, so you have perfect control on what others can see and may think of you. Again this is specific for this Belgian swingers site, but we (and from what we hear everybody else) likes this system.

I'm the first to say that you shouldn't push someone into swinging. But I'm also the first to say that a gentle push now and then can change a lot. Let me describe our situation. I thought that my wife was the last one on earth that could be convinced to swing. After 15 years of marriage (20 years together) our sex live was about to be somehow non-existent. Some of that was her fault, some of that was mine but the biggest reason was lack of communication. Sure there wasn't lack of communication on day-to-day subjects like the kids, the family, renovating our house but there was almost no communication on our relation, sex live.... Due to some circumstances some day we started communicating about this, and I took the chance and brought up the subject "swinging". The first reaction was: "NO WAY". I let it cool down for a few weeks, but we we're still communication about other aspects of our sex live. We love to tease and surprise each other, so I started a tease-session about a surprise trip I had planned, giving her all kind of hints and tips that would lead to what we would do. Besides going to shop, staying in a very nice suite in a very beautiful hotel, sightseeing,... one of the nights we would be going to a swingers club. I picked out one quite far from us: so she wouldn't be afraid to meet someone we know, but also because it got reviews to be the best one around, not only offering swinging facilities, but also a sauna, massage temple... Her first reaction when she found out (and this was shortly before we left) was: "I'm NOT going into that place". We talked a lot and we finally agreed on going to it, and staying until at least 11pm, the moment that the 'dress-code' starts and we should go into lingerie. Until 11pm it should be like a regular disco... After 11pm she could ask us to leave at any moment, no questions asked... When we entered she was very nervous, we ate, danced,.. and around 11 got undressed (in lingerie). We went to the massage temple and I gave her a nice massage. I had to put a little pressure on her to take of the rest of her clothes (you're nice new lingerie will get greasy...), but she did. Then she started giving me a massage and it seemed that I wasn't the only one who was really turned on, she started having sex we me (her on top) and had one of her biggest orgasms ever. We shortly left after that, and talked for a few hours, when I asked her: will we ever come again, she replied: "hmm yes but not in the first 6 months". At home we talked about it quite often, told her I wanted to go again (earlier) but would wait until she wanted to go again. After about 3 months I asked her if she was ready for a next visit or if she wanted to wait more. Again she hesitated a bit and I had to push her a little bit, but we went. We had a great time again, did a bit more (into the big jacuzzi), and talked about it afterwards a lot again. This time she agreed that 6 months is too long and that she wouldn't mind coming every 3-4 months to this club. Too make a long story short we're 8 months later now and we've been 5 times to a club. Even more she planned a vacation in a swingers hotel as a surprise for me. We couldn't go (the hotel closed unexpectedly), but I found something else: a swingers boat trip. First she didn't want to go because the limited amount of other guests (only 3 other couples) and because it was a whole week (what if it's not good, if the couples aren't nice, if they're pushy...). After some talking we went, and we can both say that this is the nicest vacation we ever had together... !!! Until the boat trip we hadn't done anything with another couple (in the beginning because she didn't want to, during our last club visit because we couldn't find a couple that we both wanted to) so this was going to be our first experience. I was definitely going to be disappointed if no swap occurred, she was still a bit afraid of it.... Well nothing happened during the trip and I have to say, she more disappointed about that than I am... 2 of the couples knew each other and didn't want to make contact to us and the other couple thought they were too old for us (they are in there late 40's, we are in our mid 30's). We we're to green to take initiative with them and they didn't want to because of the age difference... (they wanted but thought we wouldn't want to). To my surprise my wife was almost more eager to swap than I was, one of the last days she asked me if I would mind having a separate room swap as the rooms where too small for 4 people and during the last 2 days the boat was in a port and we couldn't have sex on deck on the big mattress. It didn't came that far but we assured the couple that they are not too old and since we all like each other.... (unfortunately they live about 250 miles from us). So you see that sometimes a little push can help, but I agree that if the other person says no, you should respect that and give it some time. If after that time it's still a no, give it some more time, and after.... until you both agree or you give up. Sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes, English is not my native language...

I once had a sexpartner who was shaved and she suggested I'd do the same. Ever since I've been shaving once or twice a week. In the beginning in a very oily bath and with shaving foam to avoid irritation. Now (about 1.5 years later) I can just pass the razor under the shower or in bath without any shaving foam or oil. I would never go back and when I see a 'jungle' in a swingers club I turn my head away. My wife (who started shaving a bit later) has the same opinion about this and wouldn't like me letting it grow again...

I voted no, but this may change in the future... She's not the best but very rapidly becoming the best (she used to not-like blow jobs but loving it now and she's really an expert at it)!

How about a board game. I couple we're chatting with told us they created on as an ice breaker and it's really working for them.

Hey, I faced similar problems about 2 years ago, much has happened since then (I may post that story sometime but feel a bit shy about it), but IMHO the secret and magic word is COMMUNICATION.... talk talk talk, openly about EVERYTHING. It really worked for us, and while we haven't swapped yet, we've been to a swingerclub together 2x in the last 3 months and going again next month (something she wouldn't have considered before). She still has to grow in it (swinging in general, I just want to know how I can convince her to swap without pushing her), but meanwhile our 'private' sexlife in general has been great for the last 6 months! Actually I now have to beg her NOT to give me a blowjob, while before she wouldn't have touched my penis with anything else but her hand and vagina.

Things have evolved quite a bit here... Mrs used to be a complete prude, didn't like to give oral was neutral about receiving it: it didn't turn her really on, however sometimes she had rather intense orgasms from it (I guess she didn't want to ask for it as she didn't want to give it back). As far as giving it, she really didn't like it, and well for years she gave it only 1x or 2x a year on a special occasion to please me... (she thought a penis was dirty, would not touch it with her lips or tongue even a minute after I showered...). Getting it from others really turned me on, and I really loved it but no one could make me come. Then we started swinging. One of our swinging partners was really an expert and could make other men come really easily but not me... However it was she who found out something very special: after I had come (eg during intercourse) she started to blow me and I ended up having feelings much stronger than regular orgasms. I almost went through the roof. For reasons too long to explain my wife suddenly changed her mind on giving me oral sex and for the last six months she's can not only turn me on but also make me come whenever SHE wants. This can be after 5 minutes or after an hour... and she knows exactly what to do after a I came... So now I not only get blown almost too many times (she loves getting me that excited), but also much more intense. And yes I cum in her mouth, something she wouldn't have done a few years ago.

I (male) have very mixed experiences with squirting. My previous partner enjoyed clitoral stimulation very much but could NOT get an orgasm from it. Never ever... I tried so many times. However G-spot stimulation was a guaranteed success for super orgasms, 80% of the times with squirting. My current partner is very clitoral minded and until now I haven't been able to get a G-spot orgasm from her, even though I 'know' the technique...