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iluvurodsteel

The Journey has been awesome, but now she said she doesn't want to swing

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This isn't my first post. My posts have gone back several years, so you can read up on my past experiences, and the situations that led us to this particular time.

 

But to again fill you in. The lifestyle has been my epiphany of life. I want to live this way. I want to experience life in a way that I've never enjoyed it before, and I'm just not ready to give that all up because she is having second thoughts.

 

We've been on this journey for some time. We hit many bumps in the road, but we both experimented with other couples and had some very extrodinary times, but we also had some times that were not so good. She was wild if she had any alcohol, and so I limited that. I din't want her to be acting out merely because of the booze. But she had several good times, that she commented on over the first six months of this year.

 

Then something happened. She drank too much wine, and she had her truth serom that exposed her feelings that all of that stuff she did before wasn't really her. That she just wants to be with me. This of course, upset me. Although we had been with several other couples, I had not really been involved like she had been. I now learn she is forgetting all of the fun she claimed she was having.

 

So three months go by, and I'm miserable. I've gone to therapy. I've read up on these websites, and others. I've thrown everything imaginable into the trash. All of my mementos from hedo, etc. etc. Things that we did under the stars now seem unclean. She has made me feel dirty for wanting this, and its killed my libido. I just can't understand why a couple that has a Metaphorical Maserati in the garage. All she wants to do with it, is drive it to the grocery store, and I want to see what she can do on the interstate.

 

We did take the car out onto a nascar track, so to speak, and she loved the thrill at first, but then as those NASCAR began blowing by us at 220 miles per hour, it scared her so much, that now, she just wants the car driven to the store and back.

 

We are reconnected lovers from High School. I love her with all of my heart, but now I wonder where she is in her heart of hearts. She loves the comforts of life, that I afford her. She loves the life that I've given her family. She treats my family with love and affection, and we enjoy only being with each other. We just love to be up each others' butt.

 

Except that now, I'm on my last few good years. I've raised a family. I've had a successful career, and I'm respected. I never fool around, I couldn't fool around, that would be dishonest, and hurtful, but now I'm ready to give up the 95% of the good, merely because she now wants to go back to a plain vanilla life. We have no kids together. We've built a unified family together, where her ex and my ex go on family vacations together, for the sake of the family and kids. So we've connected in so many ways, but I'm addicted to the freedom.

 

I'm addicted to the freedom of being available, even if I don't act upon it. I love the freedom of nudity. I love the freedom that conversations with other swingers allow you to really open up about your loves, your lives, and your fears. I love the lifestyle, and those that are in it, and yet I love this woman who is everything to me. She is great in bed, but now, I can't bring my "A"game, because she wants me to stop fantacizing about it.

 

I feel strangled, and yet, I'm only focused on the joy I felt when WE were together and out there mixing it up.

 

We've agreed to end it. I've asked her not to leave for a while. That maybe we can find a compromise, but I see neither of us changing. She says she can't, and I know now, that I am what I am. I don't equate Sex with Love, but I equate love with sex. I want intimacy, but no chains. I want her to be as happy while she is screaming from an orgasm as possible, but I have to have it, on occaision in the freedom of an open relationship and she just can't do it.

 

I love you honey. I know she reads these posts. She's tried to acclimate into my heavy sexual appetite, but she honestly can't do it, and I feel like I can't compromise either. I'm too old to be worried about what some pastor, priest, or rabbi might say, or for that matter any of my family. This is my life. I want to share my life with the woman of my dreams and fantasies, but she wants me to go back to where its just us, and no one else. And I can't do it. I don't really care about the sex, but the freedom and communion of sharing her sexually, is just mind numbing. We went to a party, were she was sucking a few dicks, and getting her pussy eaten out, and I got nothing. But I had the most amazing time, because she was just having a great time, and that turned me on.

 

So there you have it. I'm a deer in the road, staring at the headlights of a big tractor trailer. I know it. But all I can think about is the freedom that we enjoyed in Hedo, Paradise, Cancun, etc. and wonder why did it have to end? I know why, its those damn christian judeo ethics that are ingrained in our brains from the first sunday school class we go to.

 

But I'm not going to live a life that Southern Baptists will approve, even though the ones we found in the lifestyle actually were regular attending S. Baptists. I don't know how, but they are.

 

Your comments, please be gentle, are welcome. Talk me out of this. Give me comfort, but dont' chatize me too much. I hurt too much knowing that she has been the most amazing lover I have ever had, but now, I'm told, that I can not be open to the field, even though, I've never really fully experienced it yet. One blow job doesn't count that much.

 

Thanks in advance.

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I am sorry to hear that you are going through this - I can't imagine how it would feel.

 

Is it at all possible to continue to attend parties or clubs without swapping being on thed table? Do you think that time will change her mind?

 

EDIT I want to go read your other posts before I chime in any further.

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I'd recommend that you also go back and read your own posts - especially this one from just a couple years ago where you describe your wife as the person who "makes life worth living".

 

We can only know what you shared here and everything am about to say is speculation...

 

In my opinion, you've been pushing the envelope of her comfort level from the onset of your journey - and it is possible that while she enjoyed the freedoms the lifestyle afforded her, she was always doing it to make you happy...maybe even believing that once you had some experiences, your curiousity would be satisfied and you would lose interest in swinging. Instead of quenching your thirst for something more daring, it has fed the fire and desire for greater sexual freedom.

 

Just as a caution, if you think finding a committed partner that is truly open to swinglifestyle or that swinging as a single male will be a piece of cake, please disabuse yourself of that notion. It sounds to me that you are in a really great relationship with a very loving partner and you are willing to throw it away to seek a freedom that you may never again find.

 

Each individual needs and deserves to be happy and sometimes for a couple to be happy individuals, that means they must go their own ways to seek that happiness. You need to ask yourself if chasing the *ideal* lifestyle is worth losing everything you have built within your relationship.

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Wonderful response, thank you for your reply.

 

You restated my own comments. I know she is everything to me, but I feel like my life is stuck in 1st gear with the parking brake on. Sure you can still go places, but not as fast and as wild as you can if you let life rip. I'm just overwhelmed. I have spoken to several of my guy friends, and they repeatedly say, Put a Ring on it, and you'll find its a lock to her chasity belt. One fellow told me his wife admitted blow jobs were not her thing, so she stopped after they were married. Another friend whose fiance and he would share her girlfriend for many years, only to get married, and say, nah, not my thing anymore.

 

I know this lifestyle is taboo, but why should I give up something so very important to me, while she gives up nothing. She gets to live by her code of conduct imposed upon her by society, and not me, nor any logical person.

 

So yes, she and I are sky rockets in flight. . . when we are in sync, now I've tasted from the Tree of Knowledge, and I can't go back to my pure ways any longer. I like the apple, I may not every taste one again, but at least I know nothing nor noone is going to tell me I can't. And thats the point about being free. I love her and would never cheat on her, but at the same time, I feel like she is chaining me down with her negative upbringing.

 

I'm going to give it some time, but again, I'm in love with being happy. The lifestyle makes me happy. Gives me something to look forward to, other than washing the car, and mowing the lawn.

 

The french have a word for orgasm, that connotates as briefly touching the boundaries of heaven for oh such a very short time. I like that feeling. I want to give that feeling to her as often as possilbe, and I want to have friends who have found the strenght of character as to stand up and say FUCK IT, I'm going to live my life doing what makes me happy. If you can't be happy, living this wonderful dream, then what in the hell are you wanting out of life, a good sturdy walker, and a remote control that has all of the movie channels on it. For me, give me pure sexual freedom of two people in absolute love, each trying to touch heaven, together, forever.

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For me, give me pure sexual freedom of two people in absolute love, each trying to touch heaven, together, forever.

 

You are contradicting yourself. Please do give it time, sexual freedom doesn't necessarily mean swinging...and don't forget, love is about compromise. I wish you the best of luck, please keep us updated.

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I do not think I have ever commented on your past post. In fact I cannot recall reading them. So I went back and read them before posting.

 

Angelkin is dead on.

 

As I read them it appears that this has been completely your fantasy and she has only complied when in some state of inebriation.

 

I hate to see anyone break up and hope it does not come to that, but swinging as a couple is about the couples wants and needs not the individuals. She has clearly never fully been on board, if on board at all.

 

I am not sure where you think this journey will take you, but if you are looking for these experiences a single male in the lifestyle, your are likely to suffer far more disappointment. And finding a significant other is difficult enough, when you add that you are looking for a LS partner as well it becomes imposing.

 

As you say you are throwing away the 95% for the 5%, it baffles me that you can be so with such ease. Be careful because the pasture is rarely green as you think once you are on the other side of the fence.

 

That said, if you do plan on trying to make it work with what sounds like a wonderful lady, put away the swinging ways. She is clearly not into it and if you manage to work things out in the short term, but eventually head straight back to wanting to swing, you will only hurt her more.

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Actually, I'm not interested in being a single guy in the lifestyle. I would not want that at all. I would however, like to be in the lifestyle that represents what I want, and what she wants. She had great times, but now is not comfortable with making any changes in her own thinking, and I respect that, but she expects that I should change my thoughts. Thats the thing, I can't.

 

I've been with three women. Since starting this lifestyle, I've gotten a single BJ, and I enjoyed eating out a friends wife's pussy. She came and was amazed. She never came from oral before. This made my gal wonder why she would share me, because I have been ten times the lover any of the other people we've been around has been. So I know what I'm doing, I love what I'm doing, and I want to experience life and love with her, in the lifestyle. I've been faithful to the nth' degree. I've had so many opportunities, but I always have been honorable about a committment. This is different, this is a new relationship and this was part and parcel of what drove my engine. This made me the sexual lover that she adores that I am. Her biggest complaint is that I satisify her, and no one else ever will. I like that she thinks I'm a great lover, but hey, I like sharing my gifts as well, but again, ONLY with her consent and complete involvement, otherwise, its just sex with a stranger. Who cares? I don't. I want the experience of having sexual relations wiht her and others together. If she leaves, I won't be beating down the doors to get laid. I don't want pussy. I want a love affair that includes no conditions. A love that respects me and honors me, and is even encouraging me in my journey, as I do for hers. She instead wants conditions on her love for me, and when you tell me that I can't have something, even if I dont' really want it, I begin to desire it. Being told no, makes me want it all the more. And come on guys, you are in the lifestyle because it has affected you and your lover in a positive way. I want the same thing, but now that she has made several half hearted attempts, she is now willing to bail and she expects I'll come running.

 

Why should I? I love her, but why should she not be running to me? I found happiness with her in the lifestyle. I'll be miserable without either of those. She knows it, I know it. But again, deer in the headlight. I love her, but I can't stand to be chained to someone's personal ethics that is shaped by old church going farts who thump their bible at anything that is fun.

 

I just can't do it. I love her, but I can't give up my chance to eventually be able to experience what she and I had those several times we met other couples.

 

I guess you guys think I'm a cad, or an idiot. I might very well be. But I just dont' want to give up that which has made me finally be excited about life. I'm just not going to do it.

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I probably shouldn't comment as I really don't have any useful advise. I just wanted you to know that you aren't alone. You may be a cad. Who cares? You have found what makes life worth living. As an older guy, there are some things that make getting out of bed worthwhile. As we are faced with our mortality, the things that make us happy become VERY important. I currently have 2 issues to deal with that are preventing me from doing my 2 favorite things. Life is dull. I feel your pain. I guess I will suggest one thing. See a shrink and get a mild anti-depressant. It wont cure anything but will make life more tolerable until you find what you are looking for. Good luck man.

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I love you honey. I know she reads these posts.

 

Is there any way possible to have Mrs. iluvurodsteel to come and share her side of the story?

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I've been thinking about your situation, OP, and factoring in your request for gentleness, etc. So, this is me pulling my punches and being as kind as I can in the face of some seriously faulty reasoning.

 

You're separating from a woman you love, with whom you have - when you're not withholding it out of pique - seriously amazing sex, not because the relationship has gone south but because your wife doesn't feel that swinging is something she wants to do. Earlier, you decided that even though she was happy with Hedo and other resorts so long as you confined yourselves to same room sex, you weren't going to go anymore, because she didn't actually want to swing. In addition to those two examples of emotional near-thuggery, you don't actually listen to what she has to say, instead deciding that her desire to not swing is the result of outside forces instead of her own inner compass of what is right for her.

 

So, you two separate and divorce. Then where are you? No closer to swinging, unless you manage to put a lid on your own entitlement and rage and find a single woman who a) likes you and, b) is willing to swing. How long do you think that will take? Do you think you can find a relationship as loving as the one you had with your wife? One where the sex is as good or better?

 

I get part of your issue, because I have no desire for a monogamous relationship. I've tried it, under protest, and it sucked ass. At the same time, I know that swinging isn't for everyone or even most folks. It's not because they're flawed or deluded, it's because sex has a different intrinsic meaning for them.

 

Finally, your wife actually has said her version of "FUCK IT, I'm going to live my life doing what makes me happy." Why can you not admire her strength of character (because that had to have been very hard for her) and explore what compromises can be made within her parameters?

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Marriage is a series of accommodations; great marriages are a series of great accommodations. Intimacy is foundational to marriage, as is compromise, as is communication. You can't get to an accommodation until there is wide open communication about needs and wants. Based on what you have written, probably best to let time cool things off and then find a way to have a conversation. Not about ending the marriage, but getting to the core of what's important to both of you...

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Iluvurodsteel, I’ll try to be gentle but I can’t promise that some of the things I’ll say won’t sting. You also have every right to dismiss my entire post but the following is how I see the situation according to your side of the story (or what you have chosen to share with us) so take all of this with a grain of salt.

 

So BEFORE the relationship began I let her know that although I've never crossed the line, that I had always wanted to see if I could. She said have a three way? I said yes, she said MFM? and I said no, FMF. But that peaked my interest. So we began our lives together three years ago, with no promises, just honest opinions about this sort of lifestyle. I was interested, she wasn't.

 

I know that people change over time and that their opinions or thoughts on a specific subject can go from one side to the other. However, you both entered into the relationship knowing full well that you two were incompatible in this respect, concerning swinging. You had a 25-year marriage behind you at this point and, may I dare say, already knew that you wanted to explore this type of lifestyle. Why did you forge through with the relationship knowing that she wasn't interested in exploring this from the get go?

 

She relented, and said she found a happy place to allow some soft swapping sex. Well, I have only been with three woman my entire life. My ex wife and one other one night stand when I was 18. She however, has been with dozens of guys. Many one night stands. And yet, now she says that she can find a way to suck some cocks, but no real hard swapping.

 

I am wondering if you are harboring some resentment that you haven’t had as many sexual experiences as your wife and using it as a “justification” for feeling the way that you do. I’m not condemning you. I understand how you might feel. Before we were in the LS, Mr. Sun had a lot more experience than I did. However, with all of his experiences, he said that they weren’t as fulfilling as the sex with me because we were in love while his previous experiences were casual. Perhaps your wife has come to the same conclusion and isn't interested in casual swinging sex.

 

I love her with all of my heart, but now I wonder where she is in her heart of hearts. She loves the comforts of life, that I afford her. She loves the life that I've given her family. She treats my family with love and affection, and we enjoy only being with each other.

 

I’m not sure if this is true doubt/ insecurity about her love for you or if this is another disguise for resentment. Do you feel that perhaps you are providing everything in the relationship (money, luxuries, love, etc.) but you feel that she hasn’t given you the same in return? And if it’s true doubt, if she really wasn’t interested in the LS, how much does it say about her and her love for you that she is willing to try it for your happiness?

 

Which leads me to…

 

She's tried to acclimate into my heavy sexual appetite, but she honestly can't do it, and I feel like I can't compromise either.

 

If you have perused the forum enough, there are a lot of halves of couples that wish that their other half wanted to swing or couples that haven’t made that plunge but one thing or another is stopping them. You can at least say that you and your wife tried. There are many who wish they could have at least gone as far as you two have. Since it didn’t work for your wife though and you entered into the relationship knowing that you were interested in the LS and she was not, you are at the same crossroads again, but it’s more difficult. You love her, you two have built a life together…you have to decide once again what your priorities are. Is it more important to be free to have a non-monogamous relationship with no guarantee that you’ll find another partner to love and share your lives together? Or is it more important to hang on to this woman who you love but doesn’t share your same passion about being in the LS?

 

Another possibility is that your preoccupation with being in the LS has caused her to doubt your love for her. For someone who might not be open to the LS and what it offers, sometimes it can make them question, “Aren’t I enough for my partner?” All of your pushing (gentle or not), signing up for nudist/swinging cruises/resorts might also make her feel neglected. Have you been so busy trying to set up the next time that it’s possible that you wife feels left out, especially since she might not have been interested in the first place? It could be possible that her pulling the plug on everything is her way trying to reconnect with you. Sure, she might also be doing it because she doesn’t want to but she might also think this could be a type of addiction for you. She wants you back…the man that she first reconnected with 3 years ago. This is all speculation though…which is why I asked if it were possible for your wife to come and tell her side.

 

With all of that said…your entire post shrieks of “Me, me, me!” and “I’m not getting what I want.” With any relationship, there are gives and takes. There are compromises. There are things you’re not going to like doing. But what you get in return from the relationship should be immeasurable. If you want to be able to do what you want without thinking about anyone else, then maybe being in a relationship isn’t your style.

 

I know you wrote :

 

…now I've tasted from the Tree of Knowledge, and I can't go back to my pure ways any longer. I like the apple, I may not every taste one again, but at least I know nothing nor noone is going to tell me I can't.

 

To me, it’s more like the proverbial carrot dangling just out of reach. You want it so bad and you’ve come so close to getting it a few times but now the carrot has been completely taken away. Now you’re angry, frustrated, and you are convinced on leaving everything behind to go out on a quest to seek it, even if you never find it. So, as I asked above, what is more important to you? Finding that elusive carrot (especially since you don't want to experience the LS as a single male) or staying put and putting the carrot out of your mind?

 

I did have two questions:

 

1. Why do you say, “I'm on my last few good years.”? You are 50-some-years-young. Don’t feel like you are over-the-hill because if you think that mentally, you’ve already given up the battle.

 

2. Was it your idea, each and every time, to go to the sex club, sex campground, swing/nudist cruises?

 

 

Also, I asked Mr. Sun to read your post (just the OP of this thread...the rest was too much for him) and he said, "Well, if he wants to go, then he should go."

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Also, I asked Mr. Sun to read your post (just the OP of this thread...the rest was too much for him) and he said, "Well, if he wants to go, then he should go."

 

I think maybe this is a guy thing, but I have to agree with Mr. Sun on this one. There are just some times when that 5% that is missing in a relationship is actually important enough to overshadow the other good 95%. The OP has found a new and exciting facet of his life with the swinging lifestyle, and he wants to share that excitement with the woman he loves. I say better for him to go out on his own and pursue a relationship with a woman who does have the same mindset that he has, instead of staying with this woman and "compromising" by pushing his own desires down into a little box that will only begin to fester into resentment at his wife. That's not good for him or for her, so better to search for his own happiness elsewhere.

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I think maybe this is a guy thing, but I have to agree with Mr. Sun on this one. There are just some times when that 5% that is missing in a relationship is actually important enough to overshadow the other good 95%. The OP has found a new and exciting facet of his life with the swinging lifestyle, and he wants to share that excitement with the woman he loves. I say better for him to go out on his own and pursue a relationship with a woman who does have the same mindset that he has, instead of staying with this woman and "compromising" by pushing his own desires down into a little box that will only begin to fester into resentment at his wife. That's not good for him or for her, so better to search for his own happiness elsewhere.

 

Yes, those are excellent points. My post was meant to get the OP to delve into what happened within the relationship and to turn it into a possible learning experience. This is his 2nd marriage. Whether the relationship continues or dissolves, he needs to understand what got him to this place so that he doesn't repeat past mistakes. It is very easy to walk away. It is even easier to walk away without thinking about thinking about how things went from A to B.

 

If I were to ever want to stop swinging in the future and Mr. Sun realized that he couldn't, I would want the dissolution of our marriage to be because both of us realize that we're incompatible...not because Mr. Sun felt I was to blame for taking something that he feels entitled to.

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I feel your pain but..., and, hopefully, this 'but' will give you thought for pause.

 

My wife has a similar 'swinging' history to yours. We delved into the lifestyle early on in our long (41 year now) marriage. Each time she seemed to be enjoying things as much, or even more, than me. I felt that I'd finally found the Utopia that I'd read about in high school.

 

Like you've said, it wasn't just the sex that I so enjoyed, it was the open conversations with friends. And it was the open conversation with my wife too. It seemed like I was able to say things to her, and her to me, that we'd never been allowed to say to a lover before. It was probably the nicest part of swinging for me, that being able to say exactly what you're thinking without having to fear that you crossed some line.

 

But when she told me that she'd only gone along for me and that she just couldn't do it anymore, well, I was devastated. I really felt that my world had ended. But, you know, I never considered that my marriage had ended. I simply accepted that I would never again have that complete happiness and would simply have to savor the wonderful memories.

 

And that's what I did for over twenty years. Then when we got the Internet and something happened that made her realize how much I missed the adventure and excitement of pushing that envelope, she suggested..., yes she, that we might explore that life again but maybe a bit more cautiously. And we did. It wasn't even close to being as adventurous as what we'd done years before but it was just so wonderfully enjoyable that I didn't care. My exciting wife and adventure partner was back and I was on cloud nine. And, as before, we didn't have to be careful about what was said to each other.

 

Then, and I still don't know what happened or why, she said she just wasn't interested anymore and for me to do what I wanted.

 

It's just not fun without her. It was that sharing that I enjoyed and, without her, there was no sharing. So for the past ten years we've lived a rather phoney life together that, amazingly, our friends and acquaintences seem to envy. Go figure. I guess it's an envy of our long marriage and how we seem to be so happy.

 

We always had a much more than average sex life but that has ended. And it's ended because I just don't find her sexually interesting anymore.

 

And our conversations are just about the most boring thing that I can imagine. There have to be ten times as many things that I think to myself than I say to her. But, and I guess she's just so content in her little world, she seems to think things are wonderful. Sometimes I think she must be getting sex someplace else, and am fine with that, but in reality I really don't think so.

 

So, honestly, I still never think about ending our marriage and finding a partner who would share my desires and adventures. And I try to find some enjoyment in the vanilla things we share. Every time I do consider the 'what might be's', I remember my favorite poem by Rod McKuen;

 

Only lonely men know freedom

Love, as lovely as it is, still ensnares

Is it better then to be on the outside in the dark and free

Or caged contentedly, yet still looking out beyond the bars.

 

I don't know how contented I am but I just don't want to be that man who abondons such a long marriage that has, otherwise, been a good one. I will admit though that if she found someone, or something, that inspired her to leave me? Well, I'd be happy for her and not at all unhappy myself.

 

I so hope this has helped you.

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Mr fun here.....

 

My ex ended our marriage for another male we met in the lifestyle. A 15 year marriage down the drain over a pipe dream. Lo and behold she married him. We hadn't spoken in years, but out of the blue tells me she made the biggest mistake of her life. Now both of us are remarried, but she wants me to leave my current wife and start again. The answer was and will always be a resounding no regardless of what happens simply because there will never be any trust again.

 

The OP has to decide what is most important.....the lifestyle or his wife and marriage. In this case you can't have both.

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Thank you Visexual. Your post seems to get my point, although I wonder why you torture yourself on this board, when you admit this life, this nirvana, this heaven on earth, cannot be yours because she can't be that kind of person. I lived and endured a wife of 29 years, who left me only to come running back once she realized that life should not be played like a game. She never figured this out after she had gone all in and had nothing. I lived without the lifestyle for those years, because although we had an average sex life, I learned to master ate regularly, because the averages had huge highs and lows. So I was committed to live this life out of a commitment and love. I had a family and I wasn't going to trash it for what was only a pipe dream.

 

My best friend helped me out during this time. He had an active sex life, mulitple partners etc. and he told me monogamy was better. To not overly glamorize it, so I swallowed that beautiful pill, gladly. I have always been prudish when it comes to how I behave around other women. I don't ever want to make someone fall for me, and me not be able to reciprocate. Had one employee, beautiful, single, and with all of the juices flowing so strongly, I explained how dangerous it was for us, and she left my employment at that time. God that was hard to do. I've had women make advances on me, time after time again. Apparently I am considered handsome, and even my female clients remark about my looks. But I'm a professional when they meet me, so they naturally think I'm "special". Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm reminded of dozens of other times that women, married and professional, with children, would invite me to their hotel room on conferences. Who would want to take me out to a private place to talk business. But I refused to participate. Cheating was wrong. Plus, women seem to fall really fast, especially now that many are now going through their own mid-life crisis.

 

My point is to say that, I've stayed true, always have, and I hope I always will to my love.

 

But let me step back a moment, she is not my wife. We reconnected via FB, and seeing that she was four hundred miles away, I let my guard down. My wife moved out on me, and I had no desire to find another love. I'd been with three women. She was my first, in high school, then for whatever reason, we broke up. But I always loved her. 33 years later, and 400 miles away, she talks about me being her knight in shining armor, and it broke my heart. She was married, in a stale marriage, and I now still believe that to be true. But I wasn't ready for a relationship, and again she was too far away, had another life, and I could not see that anything would happen.

 

We talked non-stop. I told her that my sexual proclivities far outweighed my experiences, and she said that she was scared of my desires. She had lived 25 years with a big zero. But she never pushed for better sex, and like most women, she became a mother and just focused on those matters. But now, she and I have been brought back together openingly talking about our sex desires.

 

We broke the bed springs on most if the first mattresses we had, in those first few months we learned each others bodies all over again. She openly wanted and encouraged anal sex. She would use dildos on live video, on her ass and pussy, when we were apart. We've experienced open and public sex and both went wild, and we've experienced a few very limited episodes of sharing. What put me over the top was having to turn down hot looking couples when we went to these places. Many of them our juniors by a dozen years, and again, I had to say no as if I'm in the same relationship I've lived for 29 years. I see it as if she is too insecure, because the times we've had have been mind blowing.

 

When you come back from one of the first group meets, and she jumps your bones and says, "I might be Bi!", well it's like you are in seventh heaven.

That night she kissed several girls, for the first time, sucked two of the guys, without me even watching, as she was across the room and behind me before I noticed. She then grabbed my cockand another cock while another ate her out. This seemed real. Like she really was coming out of her cocoon. This episode and subsequent. Emails with other couples, and our trip to Hedo where she watched a beautiful girl n girl at the hot tub, and said that it was Hot!

 

What am I supposed to think? That she is faking it? So that was when I said, lets set a date to get married. That was the moment I felt most connected. That moment when she holds me close and lets herself go, that's what it's all about.

 

But even though she has been with dozens of guys, she has something about penetration, or so she says.

 

Today, she was found sitting by our lake, in the cool morning breeze, drinking coffee, crying. We again talked and talked, but we've said the same thing over and over again. I adore her, but my passion is locked inside my sexual energy, without that we would be just best friends. We continued to talk. I posted most of what you've read above, when we continued our talks before I could finish.

 

Again we just reiterated our feelings. Our sadness, and our fear that this beautiful life was at an end. I then sort of thought to myself, and she asked what was it.

I thought just as a point of understanding, that if penetration is truly her difficulty, then why not just have a FMF? She looked at me, and again, I've never suggested one, because I felt like she would be jealous or something. She said that she couldn't think of a reason why not? But that she was not sure, and I reminded her that I wasn't askin, I was just throwing ideas up and into the wind. She thought about it longer and said, that might be okay. That it was something she could get behind.

 

Well, I'm not fooling myself again, so as I always do, I pushed it further, to again see how firm she was. I said that a single female would come with more baggage. She might want or need me. Something that a swinging couple hopefully would prevent. She agreed, then again she thought about me penetrating another woman, and she frowned again.

 

So we are talking, but I'm in no mood to manipulate, coherse, or bribe someone to unconditionally love me. If she can't stomach my happiness, because it effects her happiness, then it looks like we both lose.

 

Time to talk again. Again, thank you for not kicking me too hard. But I love to at least be able to sit on the bench during the game, even if we don't get to play. It beats watching from the stands, and you might just get lucky to be called in to play under the right circumstances to catch the ball that wins the game. God, isn't that what life is all about? Those wonderful moments?

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Swinging is great and fun but having the joy of loving someone completely and spending your life BY that unique someone's side is something any amount of physical pleasure can never equal.

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The joy of loving someone completely, by its very definition, means acceptance, and reciprocating enjoyment of pleasure. She lived with a sexual dud for 25 years. She couldn't get out, and now that we've tasted of the fruit of knowledge, I'm supposed to suppress that, and still consider that "complete"? I'm past the sexual games and mores that society has placed upon me. Why should someone else's demand supersede my own? Sex is, or isn't the most enjoyable part of a relationship. Take that away and you're just roomies that sleep together and occaisionally have suppressed sex.

 

I guess that's my delemia. I wish I could cut my balls off, and just play golf, or landscape my yard, when I'm not in the Kiwanis doing some fund raising event. But that isn't me, and I thought in her beautiful green eyes, she was there with me, now it's like it has cheapened those times. Every shirt, every tourist item I collected, and hid away in my closet, was thrown away. Why have memories that were not real, only attempts at compromise she made likely in hopes I'd get my taste, and then move on.

 

I mentioned my friend, who told me that monogamy was the way to go, and how I used that opinion as strength when I waiverd. Turns out, he lied. He said he loved the group sex and times he had numerous threesomes. He said he was just trying to keep me in check, since it never looked like that was possible. He wants to be in this lifestyle, but his gal says no, and he says he can live without it since he's been around, but if he had a choice, he would be absolutely willing to join in.

 

Everywhere I turn, I hear of stories of how women change after a while and lose their libido, I just can't live without great sex, that's complete. I don't mind vanilla, but I want to have the other flavors, should the opportunity arise. I just refuse to look anymore if I can't even hope for a shot of fun with another couple, so I just feel like I'm slowly dying and becoming a wuss. Forever plagued by what might have been. Poor poor pitiful, selfish, conceited, thoughtless pig that I am, can not see away around this.

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I do appreciate your honesty on this issue. I also know we're only getting your side of the story and your perspective, so I'm not basing what I post on the merits of your argument to stay or go, only you know what is best for you and your partner.

 

If what you say lines up with what is mostly true, I think it is only fair for you to leave the relationship. You are not going to be fulfilled and happy in the relationship so resentment will breed and grow.

 

I am glad you were willing to come here and be honest about how you feel now that you know swinging cannot be part of your life if you are with her. I've read many times here and other swinger's boards that if one partner wanted to stop all LS activity it would be ok and the relationship was the top priority. (I'm not saying anyone who has that belief is lying or wrong) I have questioned the reality and validity of that statement at times, because the LS does become a very big part of our lives and our identities even. I'm single so I don't have the life lessons, but I wonder how easy it would be for people to walk away from the LS if their partner decided it wasn't for them and then went even further and said they weren't really into it and did it for the other partner. It would feel like a betrayal it seems.

 

I'm sure for some leaving the LS to preserve the relationship would be a no-brainer, but I don't think that is so for everyone and I don't think it would be easy for most. I think many would struggle with resentment and wanting their freedom back.

 

One thing I read from your posts are that you seem to think you are *enlightened* because you have found the freedom of the LS. This seems a bit arrogant, because it isn't being enlightened, it's just different. I'm sure many *vanilla* couples would feel enlightened compared to swingers if they can say they have a more varied and active, passionate sex life with only one another, neither would be true, just different.

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Thank you for your reply.

I do feel enlightened with the LS, but that might be a poor choice of words. I feel addicted to it. I've purposefully stopped all thoughts about it for months, and I dried up into an emotional ball, like I was going through withdrawals. Yes our sex is awesome, and our intimacy is terrific, but I have to hold back, and that feels like my drug dealer who has been awesome helping me experience this new LS, has turned into a narc. Now not only can't I get a fix of this most wonderful high, I'm told ill never have it ever again. Maybe that's what this is, withdrawals? If I stick it out for another four or five months, maybe my behavior will change my attitude. . . . Or I could one of my nuts off.

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I think Sunbuckus may be right in that you should just get it over with and break up.

 

You're getting all the signs that she's just not going to be the partner you feel you need.

 

I was young when I overlooked signs and got married.

 

The first sign was when I returned from an overseas TDY and she wanted to wait until a perfect moment for our reunion sex.

 

The second sign was when the couple who introduced us were having sexual contact in the back seat of my car at a drive-in theater and she was mortified instead of turned on by it.

 

If I had been a little older, and had swinging experiences already, I would have heeded those signs.

 

And, honestly, if I could go back and break up with her and not hurt her, I would.

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Oh, almost forgot, to answer your question as to why I 'torture' myself by coming here. Being around normal folks who have embraced the lifestyle together lets me know that I'm not weird for finding it so wonderful. And it's just nice to be able to experience the lifestyle a little, if only vicariously.

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Thanks Visexual.

 

I was brought up and was very involved in the Christian Church. Even was a youth minister 30 years ago, until I had to break up with my faith, because I had changed and realized that that too was also a lie. Doesn't mean I don't believe in love, compassion, and selfless giving, it just means I'm not a sheep anymore and I'm smart enough to know of a con when I was ready to see it. I'm reading "A Reason Driven Life". Beautiful book.

 

But I sort of feel for you. In the movie Field of Dreams, they catch up with Doc Graham, who never had an at at in the majors, when asked if he wanted a chance to do that he said, No. He was Doctor and that was his life. Then we later find Doc walking down the road and now as a young man, he is excited about playing on the field of dreams. He always wanted it, but found happiness in what he gave to others. Which is perfectly okay with me. And yet, unlike baseball, in which years of hard work might never get you into the show, being a swinger in a loving relationship means you are in the show. The only reason you can't play is because you have no one to join you and that's not your choice, its not mine either.

 

She cried last night, kept asking why this wasn't enough for me, and then she said the opposite, why is the lifestyle not right for her. We are admittedly in a catch 22.

 

I told her the game playing is done, if I stay, then that means I have to forever give up on my own "field of Dreams" if she stays she has to make some minimal amount of attempts at getting past these indoctrinations she has been taught. I doubt she will be able to do it, and my scared as hell that she can't change anymore than I can.

 

Thanks again. I feel for you because I know what it's like to enjoy the fruit of the tree of full knowledge, and I like it. I love it.

 

Gees, why does life have to be so limiting?

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I'm really not trying to be insulting at all,but when I read your post you come off much younger than you actually claim. Not only the things you're talking about but the way yuo discuss them. You say you're older but you come off like you're very selfish. Your wife is happy with just being with you but thats not good enough for you. You two should divorce.

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angelkin said:

Each individual needs and deserves to be happy and sometimes for a couple to be happy individuals, that means they must go their own ways to seek that happiness. You need to ask yourself if chasing the *ideal* lifestyle is worth losing everything you have built within your relationship.

 

iluvurodsteel said:

I know this lifestyle is taboo, but why should I give up something so very important to me, while she gives up nothing. She gets to live by her code of conduct imposed upon her by society, and not me, nor any logical person.

 

She gives up nothing? Perhaps sometime you should ask her what she's given up to be with you, I bet you'll be surprised. We all give up things to be in any relationship and we do so willingly. You willingly gave up your hope to swing, knowing that she was not interested. Yet, you pushed and pushed (and by your own admission manipulated) her until she gave just a little here or a little there. She gave you an inch and you pushed for another one. She admitted she wasn't comfortable with something you wanted so you TOOK AWAY what she was comfortable with and enjoyed, thus taking away your own pleasure.

 

Had you at any point stopped to listen to her and to what she was actually comfortable with you might have found a happy common ground where you could both be happy. However, now you are well beyond that and would be doing her a favor by walking away.

 

Right now what you remind me of, most, is a BOY that I dated when I was a teenager. He got a bug up his butt about paying for our dates and decided that everything should be Dutch. Why? Because evidently he didn't get enough out of our relationship outside of sex (at least not in his mind) and therefore paying for all our dates was akin to paying for sex. Evidently, the fact that we were best friends and had a wonderful relationship (sexually and non) didn't register with him, and that's where you seem to be right now.

 

 

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I'm going to give it some time, but again, I'm in love with being happy. The lifestyle makes me happy. Gives me something to look forward to, other than washing the car, and mowing the lawn.

You are in love with an illusion, a dream of happiness that you have created in your own mind. You are in love with a situation you have not even really experienced, and likely never will.

 

When you leave this relationship (or it leaves you), you will find yourself in a very lonely place still without all the things you dream about and crave, still washing your car and mowing your lawn... except now you'll be doing it alone.

 

 

iluvurodsteel said:
Actually, I'm not interested in being a single guy in the lifestyle. I would not want that at all. I would however, like to be in the lifestyle that represents what I want, and what she wants.

Obviously you don't want to be in a relationship that represents what both of you want. If you did you would have worked from the beginning to find a happy compromise where you could both be happy instead of pushing her to do what you want, and taking away the things that you both enjoyed because they weren't enough.

 

 

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She had great times, but now is not comfortable with making any changes in her own thinking, and I respect that, but she expects that I should change my thoughts.

Has she said she expects you to change your THOUGHTS? There is a big difference between changing our thoughts and changing our actions. We have little control over our thoughts, but we have full control over our actions and more importantly our re-actions. If ViSexual posts show you nothing it is that you can still think about it and enjoy the thoughts of it without having to act on it.

 

 

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Why should I? I love her, but why should she not be running to me?

Why SHOULD she run to you? I don't really see you giving her any reason to. You expect her to give up what she is comfortable with (and she has already tried) but are not willing to give yourself? Here's the problem we all have too often in relationships, we always want the other person to apologize, and that waiting for the other person to apologize does more damage than whatever it was we were fighting about. We will often forget what we are fighting about while waiting for that apology.

 

In the end, you've got to decide if this relationship is something you want enough to give something back, to compromise, to accept the relationship as you signed on for it in the beginning, one where you talk openly but may never act on certain thoughts.

 

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I found happiness with her in the lifestyle. I'll be miserable without either of those. She knows it, I know it. But again, deer in the headlight. I love her, but I can't stand to be chained to someone's personal ethics that is shaped by old church going farts who thump their bible at anything that is fun.

 

Get over it! I get so tired of hearing people blaming their actions today on what they 'went through' as a youth. Seriously, we've all dealt with some shit. I grew up in church to with it shoved down my throat. I was able to realize that it wasn't for me and walk away. I don't make my decisions today based on the idea that "oh I can't do that because that's what the church would have wanted". No. I make my decisions today because it's what's best for me at this point in my life.

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I just can't do it. I love her, but I can't give up my chance to eventually be able to experience what she and I had those several times we met other couples.

 

Have you ever watched "Let's Make a Deal"? You know how the host gives them the option to trade their current deal for "what's behind the curtain" never knowing what's there. They are trading it for a CHANCE that it might be the big vacation or a car. Well, that's what you are saying you want to do. You want to trade a happy (well it was happy till you started withholding in order to penalize her) relationship for the CHANCE that you might get the fantasy life you desire. Do you know what those chances are? Pretty small because quite honestly the person you've represented here is not someone that most women would want to be with. So, thank your lucky stars that you have this wonderful woman and RUN back to her and BEG her to forgive you for being an asshat and for putting your desires above the happiness of your relationship. Because being in a happy LOVING relationship is about putting your partners needs above your own wants.

 

 

mauijanedoe said:

So, you two separate and divorce. Then where are you? No closer to swinging, unless you manage to put a lid on your own entitlement and rage and find a single woman who a) likes you and, b) is willing to swing. How long do you think that will take? Do you think you can find a relationship as loving as the one you had with your wife? One where the sex is as good or better?

 

This. Because she's absolutely right.

 

 

iluvurodsteel said:
The joy of loving someone completely, by its very definition, means acceptance, and reciprocating enjoyment of pleasure.

It's funny you should say that... and yet you aren't willing to give it anymore than you believe she is giving it. As for that last part of the sentence, I don't agree. I believe there are many types of pleasure in the world and yes we should all have pleasure in our lives and things that give us pleasure, but that doesn't mean it's up to our partner to give them to us or to do everything we enjoy with us. As individuals we each need to find things that we enjoy outside of our relationships - hobbies, activities, sports, etc - and do them on our own regardless of whether or not our partner participates in them or enjoys them. I would no more force my husband to go take a painting class with me than I would try to force him to attend a swinger club.

 

Lastly, you've said a few times that you feel like you are ADDICTED to swinging. If that is truly the case, then get help. Get counseling. Even if you just think there's a chance that that's the case, get help. You still may have time to save your marriage, but it's up to you to make it happen. It's up to you to apologize and fix things, it's up to you to RUN to her. Not, the other way around.

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Thanks Julie, You don't hold back any punches, and why should you? This is a website for swingers, and this is a topic designed to HELP. Which is what I am asking for. If I had all of the answers, I'd not need this website. Let me reiterate a few points, albeit minor.

 

I don't mean to demean her in anyway. She's a beatiful person. She is likely more normal than I. But we are not married.

She moved to live with me. I am financially independent, and fortunately, her transition to another state was made because I paid for it. In fact, even though we are not married, she is in my will, in my life insurance policies, and other than my weak assed Social Security, there is no reason why I want to get married. I only want to do it, because she would like to get married, and she admitted at the beginning that marriage was a sore subject for her too.

 

Am I supposed to get married, even though at the beginning I said never again? Does she get the final say on that?

I've even said I'd return her to her own lifestyle back to her home, which I helped pay off, and a significant amount to keep her going for several years. I don't want her to stay because she cant' afford to leave, I want her to stay because she loves being my soulmate, as much as I lvoe being her soulmate.

 

So this relationship is only 4 years in the making, and it began with my open and honest discussions with her about swinging. I told her that I have never done such a thing, but that I would like to try, and that I wasn't sure if I could go for it, I might get jealous, or feel dirty or something. IN fact, wihtout her holding my hand as we went this route, I would have never done anything. For me it is truely about sharing OURSELVES with EACH OTHER in a open setting wiht other like minded invidivuals.

 

So I'm not ready to throw in the towel. I am giving her ever reason to leave, so if she stays its for the right reason, and I fold, and or cave in to her, because I do love her with all of my heart, then I have to absolutely be able to say that I have to give this up in its entirety. That I have to let go of those few moments that I found the most harmony in my life.

 

Years ago when I was twelve, I'm 53 now, I went streaking for the first time. Stupid little naked run, but for me that was awesome.

Took me until I was 50 with my love, holding my hand walking out onto a nude beach for the first time. She had been to other topless beaches, and again, she had been with dozens of men in her twenties, while I had gone the Christian walk of life.

 

My point is that you may not appreciate or understand what it was like, but for me, this was a dream come true. I don't ever care to go on another vacation, but to live life in the sun, around a bunch of crazy ass people, who openly love their spouses, and enjoy the fun of being naked in a life in which sex does not equate to sex.

 

So thank you again for your comments. But I will remind you of one of your comments about Lets Make a Deal and the analogy you used. I've actually used that argument in one of my cases years ago when I did criminal defense work.

 

Mathematically, when Monty Hall (that dates me) would ask if you want to change from what is behing the current you chose, and whats behind another current, after having been shown what was behind the other third current. . . . that you shoud ALWAYS CHANGE. Mathematically, you have double the chance of getting the better prize, if you are offered the chance to change. I know it doesn't sound right, but mathematically, its true. Just do it with a deck of cars, ten times, and you'll see that your first choice was only right 33% of the time, while changing to the other current had the big prize 66% of the time.

 

Which coinicidentally makes your analogy fit into my theory, and that is, if you make an initial choice, don't hand on to it, merely because you are scared, but look at the real odds, and the real odds of happiness and/or getting the brand new car, is double.

 

This analogy isn't perfect, but I think what I'm saying is that, I can make an emotional one, or a logical one. Even though it feels logical to stay with my first choice, the truth is that the odds say I should change.

 

Let me ask you Julie, since you've been so kind as to reply, what if I gave you some examples and you tell me your thoughts.

 

Today in our morning hot tub routine, that we enjoy, I asked her, about oral sex. She absolutely enjoys it. Her past husband rarely tried, and never made her orgasm. Now she loves it whenever we make love, which for us, is daily.

She loves me to eat her out, and I love doing it. I want her to know I love it because, she is then allowed that hedonistic pleasure of knowing that she is recieving and giving at the same time. She is giving me the joy of pleasuring her, and she is giving me the joy of loving it in return. I just love it. I can do it for hours, until she says she can't keep keep it up. In fact, she now gushes, and gushes big, and she loves to 69 me, and gush all over my face while she swallows me. We have to have towels because she gushes so much, and I love it, becuase seh loves it. I just have passion for her pleasure.

 

Now to the question, what if like many guys, I decide that I'm not interested in that, I asked her. What if I said, you know what, your pussy just doesn't taste right, which ain't true, she has a sweet pussy. But if I just evolved into just wanting blow jobs, and an occaisional romp in the hay. What if I dropped down to something way below where she was at. Could you or she, be satisfied in your life with a lover, that only wanted to be sucked, and rarely reciprocated.

 

I mean if your lover just decided, hey, I'm just not interested in sex as much as I used to be, and its not physical, no ailments, I just don't want to have sex like we used to. This is not unusual, as I've shared about several of my friends. Women do this routinely.

 

But I'm telling you, that women want their cake and they want to eat it too, but men are told that we can have our cake and pussy and eat it to, up until the time that women say no.

 

I just don't understand why you would say no to something that at least, appeared to be a joyous time for all. And if it wasn't then she was being dishonest, or too scared that I might leave her to admit to the truth. So now that she has admitted to the truth, that which she half heartedly tried to prevent, is coming on in gangbusters, and I hate that.

 

So thanks again, yes I'm selfish, yes, I want it all, and yes, I know I should just be satisfied. But why? To show my love for her, I must stop being who I am, and like it or not, I love being in the lifestyle, or at least open to it.

 

Thanks again Julie. I'm just a putz, too stupid to control my own libido. I think Visexual can relate, its not something I want to feel, but it is how I feel.

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The grass is perpetually greener on the other side, no matter how green your grass is, and it will always be.

 

I am amazed that my significant other is so excited about allowing both of us to explore our fantasies together. Still, I KNOW I'm a better person with her than without her and I would gladly stop THIS SECOND if she ever asked me to. I've fallen into the trap before where I took someone for granted, knowing that 95% was perfect, but then found out that by trying to grasp that golden ring I lost everything I thought I had while not truly realizing what I had until I lost it. Now I never take anything for granted. I let her know how important she is to me EVERY DAY and she does the same to me. Love is giving...putting the wants and needs of someone else before your wants and needs, and yet I now find my wants and needs are all still fulfilled...only by her. Remember what you have. You want her AND swinging but that isn't an option (right now). You lose her and you lose both. You lose swinging and (according to you) it's not enough so you lose both. Sounds like you lose either way, but which way do you 'lose' the least?

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And yet she has given up nothing?

 

Do you even hear yourself? Please go back and read what you wrote. She gave up everything to be with you. She gave up her entire life. She moved to a different state, gave up her home and her friends and everything that was comfortable for her, to move to ANOTHER state to live WITH you. What did you give up? You gave up nothing at that point, and you are giving up nothing now that you had prior to your relationship.

 

Actually, the fact that you aren't married makes this much easier. Do her a favor and end it now. Let her go home. Release her and give her a chance to be happy. No one here has said you should stay with her or marry her just because. What we've all said is only that if you have the relationship you claim to have with her and the only thing that is missing is that you don't get to swing, then you are an idiot to walk away because you won't find that relationship again AND the likelihood of "having it all" the great relationship PLUS swinging is even slimmer, and is getting slimmer for you every day.

 

You are the one that asked HER not to leave yet. Keep that in mind. You keep going around in circles and quite honestly your situation makes little sense to those of us on the outside. Often we do dumb things when we are in the middle of a situation and can't see clearly. Things seem much more fuzzy than they really are. This isn't really all that fuzzy at all for those looking in, it's rather clear. You love yourself more than you love her. You care more about a fantasy relationship than about your real one. You'd be doing her a huge favor to let her go. And perhaps since you are so financially well off you can then afford to go and buy the relationship you really desire... however no amount of money will ever buy you happiness.

 

Honestly, the more you tell us about your relationship the more I can't help but think you will be miserable either way..however, if you let her go at least she has a chance at being happy. You've actually pretty much set yourself up as the poster boy for sexual addiction. You are torn only because your logical brain knows that you've got the best thing you are going to get and that walking away from it is just plain stupid. However, you are letting your emotions rule you. Your little boy petulent emotions that say

Being told no, makes me want it all the more

 

Now, go back and read your own words as you describe your relationship with/ feelings for this lady...

I love her with all of my heart, but now I wonder where she is in her heart of hearts.

I know she is everything to me

I adore her, but my passion is locked inside my sexual energy, without that we would be just best friends.

whenever we make love, which for us, is daily.

I just have passion for her pleasure.

 

Most people would kill for that description of their relationship, and that level of active sex life - even many swingers can't claim it. Again, what you want is a fantasy that does not exist.

 

You keep talking about how you worry that things will diminish, when the only thing that has actually diminished in your relationship is something that wasn't there to start with. The only reason she ever played was because you pushed and pushed. Sure she may have enjoyed it some but that doesn't mean it was something she really wanted to be doing, or to be doing as much as you wanted to push for. No matter what you got, you wanted more.

 

You've mentioned a few times a fear of how when women get married they lose interest in sex, various cliche's and such. You also said that she's mentioned marriage and you are not really interested. I can't help but wonder if that's not the primary thing holding you back and at the same time one of the issues that is causing this conflict in the first place.

 

Now to your question. How would I feel if my partner just up and decided "nope no more of your favorite activity" or "I just don't feel like having sex that often WITH you". I'd wonder why. I'd ask why. I'd question and I'd talk and I'd discuss and if necessary I'd seek outside help. Perhaps in time if things did not improve at all and my needs were not being met I'd leave. However, in all likelihood when we are talking about simply sex between two people there is usually more involved that just someone deciding "nope,don't want to do that anymore.". A loss of desire is usually much more, if not medical then mental. If not mental then a sign that there are others issues in the relationship that need to be worked on. A relationship is so much more than just sex and has to be treated as such.

 

I just don't understand why you would say no to something that at least, appeared to be a joyous time for all. And if it wasn't then she was being dishonest, or too scared that I might leave her to admit to the truth.

No. She's admitted the truth. She admitted that she was lying about enjoying it in the past. She lied for your benefit, but she has stopped lying and you are still not listening to her. You are stuck on what you saw in the past instead of listening to what she is saying now.

 

I'm just a putz, too stupid to control my own libido. I think Visexual can relate, its not something I want to feel, but it is how I feel.

Not to speak for another, but I've read enough from Visexual in the last 15 years to know that he can control his libido. Most emotionally mature adults can.

 

Again, no one is saying you should stay with her if you aren't happy. In fact, several (myself included) have said you should leave - for her benefit. What we have said several times in several ways is that you are not happy now and you will not be happier without her, nor will you trade up and find your fantasy behind Curtain #1.

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When I was younger I had a friend who was dating a girl who was a part time model (and rightfully so, she was very attractive), an absolute freak in the bedroom and would pick up and bring other girls home for them to share. One day he told me that he was going to break up with her just because there had to be even better women out there (assuming that all women just had to be like his current girlfriend). He was young and several months later he realized that he had learned a very valuable lesson. Sounds like you are about to learn the same lesson. The grass only looks greener...

 

As JustAskJulie has already asked numerous times, other than giving up on her, what have YOU given up FOR her? Love is all about giving...

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I cannot help but think this is a little (maybe a great deal) about what we have, what we want and what is most important.

 

When I was young my world revolved around my mother, we were extremely close. One day she was just gone, she died suddenly while I was still very young. I was crushed, bitter, angry. The world, as I knew it, had ended.

 

I had always been close to my father as well, but we became even closer after my mothers death. He supported me in everything I did 100% and was there when I needed him, even when I thought I didn't. When I was in my late teens he died after a long illness. This time I was crushed even worse, because the main supporter I had when my mother died was gone.

 

I had a sports career that I had dreamed about all my life and worked on diligently for over a decade. I had reached the college of my dreams, a top D1 program. I was doing well, climbing the depth chart and being recognized. A catastrophic injury ended it in the blink of an eye. I was medically disqualified from playing. This time I was angry, I had lost so much in a young life that I became bitter. I drove those closest to me away. I hurt people with how I treated them. I thought my life was a disaster, and I was letting everyone around me pay for it.

 

Then along came this beautiful women that I eventually convinced to marry me. Everything was going great for a change. I married out of my league, I had a career on the fast track and I was in my dream job. Then business started going bad for the company I was with because of the poor choices of some Sr. Management. Eventually they laid off around 60% of the company. My dream job was gone.

 

Things were tough, but we managed to push through. We have some fantastic children together, and we learned how to communicate better and love each other more as time went along. But it was very tough at times. Somewhere along the way we got to the point we could talk about anything together, and, after a while, she told me she had some fantasies she wanted to fulfill and we began this LS. My career path changed as well. I ended up in a career that was even better than I had dreamed off. Decades after we first met, we are more in love than ever.

 

If my wife came to me tomorrow and said she was done, no more swinging, I would miss it. We have a great deal of fun doing this together, it does have a sense of freedom to it, it is fantasies coming true.

 

But over the years and through the losses I have learned to ask myself a few questions that keeps it all in perspective.

 

What have I lost?

What do I have?

What is most important?

 

I lost enormous chunks of my life. My parents, my closest friends, my dreams. I still wish I had not lost those things, but I did.

 

So what do I have? Aside from an awesome wife and great children. I have the memories of my parents and what they taught me and how much they loved me. I pass that on to my kids every day. I have memories and friends from the sport I loved, and the knowledge that I achieved far more than most even dream of achieving. The job I lost taught me things that set me on a different path, towards a career that is far more enjoyable and provides better for my family.

 

So what is most important to me? Easy, my family. If I could give up what I have now and go back and change any or all of what has transpired in my life, the loss of my parents, the end of my sports career, the lost of my dream job, I wouldn't, I couldn't. What I have is far too important to me.

 

So, here you are. You have had the opportunity to live out fantasies with the woman you love. Most people would envy you, even if only privately. Now that is gone. But you still have what you called the love of your life. So what is most important? Chasing more fantasies that may or may not materialize or spending the rest of your life with the person you say is most important to you, and having some fond memories of the things most people we never get close to doing?

 

Every chapter ends, people die, dreams fall short, careers end, even marriages end, either by death or divorce. If you fixate on those things rather than having new dreams in different areas then you may end up with nothing.

 

For all of us the lifestyle will, at some point, end as well. So it is time to ask yourself if what you have more important or is trying to rekindle a fantasy that you may or may not ever find again.

 

If the fantasy is what is most important to you, then get it over with, let your wife move forward with what she desires. Know she will likely see you as the guy who loved sex with strangers more than you loved her. And be prepared in the event you don't find what you are looking for, you will have given up an enormous amount for nothing. And even if you do find success in the lifestyle you may find that you have paid too high a price. The grass usually is not greener.

 

If the woman you love is more important then get off the LS train, put away the swinger talk, for ever, and enjoy your life with your wife and your fond memories.

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I am amazed that my significant other is so excited about allowing both of us to explore our fantasies together. Still, I KNOW I'm a better person with her than without her and I would gladly stop THIS SECOND if she ever asked me to. I've fallen into the trap before where I took someone for granted, knowing that 95% was perfect, but then found out that by trying to grasp that golden ring I lost everything I thought I had while not truly realizing what I had until I lost it. Now I never take anything for granted. I let her know how important she is to me EVERY DAY and she does the same to me. Love is giving...putting the wants and needs of someone else before your wants and needs, and yet I now find my wants and needs are all still fulfilled...only by her. Remember what you have. You want her AND swinging but that isn't an option (right now). You lose her and you lose both. You lose swinging and (according to you) it's not enough so you lose both. Sounds like you lose either way, but which way do you 'lose' the least?

 

I deal with sales every day and we see some of the salesmen hit a wall. They want more and more commission hell they want it all.. Dont we all.... Sounds like your wife is great and has given you many years of her life and even slept with other people for you.. that is a win.

 

Our sales mantra when the I want mores come is.. Dont turn gold into shit...

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You appear to have some pie in the sky viewpoint of swinging that departs from reality. IN fact your posts come across as so giddy I would have to ask if you are bi-polar or something like that?

 

I couldn't even read through your posts after the first couple they were so "out there".

 

I'd give up swinging in a heart beat if it meant my wifes happiness

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I haven't been on in a while to update my situation but if you read my past posts, I know EXACTLY what you are feeling and my story and thoughts were almost word for word what you wrote. This was only a couple of month ago.

 

Especially the part about "she has so much fun when she does it so why doesn't she want to continue?"

 

you feel right now that you got screwed. You resent HER for "changing the rules"

You feel like you were "tricked" since you had such open discussions about it early in the relationship and she went along with it seemingly enthusiastically and now that you're more committed she reveals the "scam"

 

I know. I know.

 

When you guys play, she plays more than you do and seems like she found her freedom and let's loose.

Why doesn't she want to continue?

 

You look online, here, swinger sites, craigslist, and see soo many "compatible couples" who seem to share interest in the lifestyle and wonder "why isn't that us" and "look....those women are out there, I just need to find one"

 

There is nothing you have written that I can't relate to word for word. I came on here beating the same drum

 

 

ITS ALL BULLSHIT

 

Hate to say it but you're delusional.

 

Forgive me for sounding harsh, but remember.....I was YOU to a T just a few short months ago.

 

I was contemplating leaving my dream marriage of 10 years with a devoted adoring woman, pregnant, because she "decided out of the blue" after 10 years to stop swinging when she "knew from day one, that was important to me"

 

You may not see it now, but you will, and hopefully not when you're alone realizing what you did.

 

You have a problem right now. You have an addiction. An obsession. And its overriding your rational mind. Everything anyone says you can justify that you're right.

 

You're NOT.

 

You're going to split up, end up alone crying on the sofa, and realize you made a huge mistake. If you are in love with her, and she has up until recently been submissive to your desires, you can't imagine how you are going to feel when she stands up, takes control, and suddenly she takes action and you're powerless.

 

When I turned 30 it got bad. All these young hot couples that have "under 30" in their profiles.

I felt like my world was ending. I was running out of time. I had so much more to experience. By the time I find someone it will be too late. I,I,I,I

 

First off let me tell you.

That fantasy life that you think is out there if you only had a compatible partner.....doesn't exist.

You think it does because you are focused on a very small sliver of the population and they seem everywhere........they're not.

You feel like any woman would be "luck to have a guy like you to set her free" like every woman has this inner slut waiting to be let loose restricted by "traditional marriage"

 

Again....you're wrong.

 

You have a version of the "porn syndrome". Where every woman seems to have these secret desires to be cock loving cumsluts if only they were set free.

 

You're probably disagreeing with me now. As I would have a while ago. But I'll repeat that I can feel deeply exactly what you are feeling.

 

Hell. I make a good living. I give my wife everything. I ask for nothing. I work so hard and this is the ONLY thing I ask for and she denies it. What the hell!

 

You have long talks with her. You make rational points. She even probably agrees after your long speeches. Yet nothing changes. But IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE TO YOU.

 

been there. Done that. Won the trophy.

 

Let me tell you what she sees.......EVERYTHING.

 

You try different ways to explain it to her thinking she just doesn't really get it. You're waiting for the lightbulb to go off and her to finally understand and agree.

 

She gets it.

 

And you're pushing her right out the door.

 

It started the moment that you showed her she was not number 1.

The moment that she became merely a vehicle to carry out your sexual fantasies.

The moment she realized this was going to be a train that had an endless track and the throttle mashed.

 

In your mind she was having a great time....so you want to keep pushing the boundaries and make each experience hotter than the last. You see so many opportunities to take it to the next level.

 

And suddenly she just changes

 

She didn't change. She likely did have a lot of fun in the beginning. She probably still likes the idea.

 

Your attention left her and went to this. That's when she changed.

 

I'm saying "women" but this can apply to men too....but women may feel it more.

 

Women want security. Devotion. Stability. They adore you and fall for you 100%. They want nothing other than to support you and make you happy.

 

And they need to feel that in return. They need to feel that they are most important to you. They need that security and stability.

 

Look at cheating. (Yes, not every case but generally)

 

Men cheat for sex. They don't want to leave their family. They simply want some sex they're not getting from their boring disinterested wife. They can carry on like that forever until they get caught, never considering leavjng. They're just satisfying a need.

 

Women on the other hand. When they cheat. Its much more dangerous. They're not cheating because they want to feel a new rod in their pussy. They have made an emotional connection. And when that happens, they're looking for a way out.

 

They have found a man that is giving them attention. Listening to them. Focusing on them. Doing all the things that you don't do anymore. They see greener grass. They start realizing how much you take them for granted while someone else is now showing them they are important, and worth more.

When a woman decides to leave for another man. It was a very long time coming. They have thought it out, and you're not stopping them. They may have regrets down the road if its not peaches and cream. But right now, they resent YOU and the years they "wasted" with you.

 

Meanwhile you two are home, she's watching TV and you're on the laptop scouring the swinger sites for your next adventure.

 

You need to wake up and realize what you are doing or it will be too late.

 

You're not going to be free and start living the adventure as soon as you drop the anchor.

 

You're going to be another single guy that nobody wants. You're not going to have a line of sexually repressed compatible women who think like you do. At most you may meet another women who you can repeat the process.

 

Swinging is dangerous. Plain and simple. Any experienced couple will agree.

 

You MUST have a solid foundation in your relationship and swinging must be simply a little salt on the fries. Never losing track of what's important.

 

You became obsessed with the salt. Saw your wife liked a little taste of the salt. And you went and unscrewed the lid off the shaker and dumped the whole can on there until you could no longer see the fries.

 

Everyone has gotten that batch of fries from McDonalds. The ones that you can't even eat.

 

Time to hold the fry box out the window and shake it.

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confused12524, I remember your thread and how you were willing to listen to the forum members. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with iluvurodsteel...that's part of why I love this forum--people willing to be open and honest with others in order to give them some perspective and food for thought. I hope the OP considers what you have written, as well as the other replies he has received.

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Let me tell you the story of me, my husband, and the nude beach.

 

My husband LOVES being naked. I have to ask him not to walk across the yard to his shop without a pair of boxers on (we live out in the country, but still!) He also luxuriates in the hot sun, the hotter the better; he tans easily and goes very dark. He's also a very social guy and will strike up a conversation with anyone, anywhere.

 

I enjoy being naked, but not around other people. I do not like to socialize without clothes on, as I feel very vulnerable and exposed. I am also the whitest person on the earth, and never tan; just burn and go back to white, with some residual skin damage. Skin cancer runs in my family. I have a very low tolerance for heat and being under the hot sun is a torment to me, especially since I don't sweat and overheat very easily.

 

We live very close to a popular nude beach. We have been many times over the years. and almost every single trip has resulted in some unhappiness as a result of widely different comfort levels and expectations.

 

First, the umbrella. I simply cannot spend a day on a beach without shelter from the sun. He becomes impatient and questions its necessity as we haul it on the long walk along the beach, and then struggle to get it set up and aimed properly so I'm in the shade and he isn't. At least he has no problem with me spraying on the SPF 70- he's seen my burns. He'd love a wife who tans, but he knows that's a physical impossibility. (that took awhile for him to figure out)

 

Second, the clothing. I like to ease into stripping down. He wants me to take off everything immediately, "because everyone else does (they don't), and "You did it last time, so what's the big deal?"

 

Third, the socializing. I love being by the water; the lake is very important to me. However, the obligatory walk along the beach, to see who's there to talk to, is a torment to me, because, as I said, I don't like talking to people, even friends, whilst standing around naked. The walk is only tolerable because I get to collect beach glass. I have lots and lots of beach glass. I'd much rather lie and the shade and read, but he insists that I go for a walk with him; after all, I did it last time, didn't I?

 

We have often had tiffs while at the beach, because he isn't willing to let me go at my own pace, and keeps pushing the envelope farther than I am comfortable.

 

We haven't been to the beach this year, and it's the end of August. He isn't really interested anymore; he only wants to go with me if I'm willing, and he has finally accepted that it really makes me uncomfortable. He could go with other swinging friends, and even some vanilla ones, but he says without me, it's just not worth it.

 

He'd love to go to a nudist resort down the highway, but really, without even the lake as an incentive, I'd be miserable, and he realizes that. Walking naked around what is essentially a glorified trailer park? Uh, no. Even if the pool does have a swim-up bar.

 

In most other ways (well, there's his cleaning fetish) we get along just fine, and in swinging we are actually pretty much on the same page. But he realized that the beach was just making me miserable, so Mr Sun-Worshipper (seriously, lizard on a hot rock) has basically called it quits.

 

Now, you will probably argue that so what, he still gets to swing with you, so who cares about the nude beach? Okay, but he really did enjoy it, and no matter how much I knew how happy it would make him if I could enjoy it too, I just couldn't push myself to make that sacrifice. (burnt offering, most likely). It just took him a few years to figure that part out.

 

Does any of this help you see things from her point of view?

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Okay, Okay, Okay, I get the point, I'm a sexual pervert that will live my life all alone and without any of the things I've imagined in my life. Yada, yaday, yada.

I get that. If I didn't then why would I be posting to a board that would obviously contradict my opinions. Seriously, did you think I did this so that you guys could prove to me what an awful person I am. I know what I feel, I know that its not rationale, and I know that all of these matters are all tied up in the emotions of a mid-life crisis enviornment. So I know this.

 

My point in writing was to both to reaffirm my position, but also to read and learn from others. I find it interesting that confused, walked in my foot steps too, and now is castigating me for being as stupid as he was. I get it, I'm stupid. I didn't come to this board, and expect any sugar coating, but I want to reiterate that my passions for this lifestyle, are real. I know that. I have it in my blood. But I also have a great loyalty to my family and friends. AT the same time, we are all weighing what our lives are all about, and the last time I checked, I only had one chance to get it right.

 

So for me to find a happy balance in my relationship with my lover, I need her to be comfortable with my desires. She isn't. She demands, that I accept her version of how love is shared, and because 50,000 years of tribalism over our society, coupled with our DNA screaming at us from the womb to reproduce, I am fighting some very natural forces. We were born to reproduce. If not, then we wouldn't be here. Sex and love are not the same. Love can be shown in sex, and sex can be a form of love, but they are not equal.

 

So my desperate struggle to balance this wonderful and normal woman, with a fire that has burned in my soul for 40 years. I agree, that I am likely making the lifestyle to be a lot more than it really is, especially in light of my limited experience, but I"m also tickled when you guys castigate me for thinking the lifestyle is such a great thing. Yeah, right. You guys live on this website, writing about this subject on a weekly or monthly, or even a daily basis, but hey, its not that important. Yeah right.

 

If she had come down with a disease, or illness that prevented her from enjoying sex, then how can I resent her, how can I be upset with her. But when she chooses to not want that which she has endorsed in the past, including comments that she believed she was possibly "bi", gave me the assurances that she might have been timid, but that she was still growing in the experience. Yeah, she gave me mixed signals, and we talked about that very thing many times. She assured me she was on board, and the changed her mind later.

 

Again, back to my worries that I find repeatedly told to me by my many friends. That once a woman gets you, the sex is the first to go. My brother has been married for almost 40 years. and he longs to live my life. He says he hasn't seen sex since the last child they had. She just guilted herself out of having sex since she committed a sin by having her tubes tied. So no more sex. And my brother loves his family and he has willingly accepted that his life is sexless. So I know he just finds time to masterbate on his own terms and just dreams about that part of his life, but unlike me, he has given up hope.

 

Anyway, I've used this board so that I could be criticized. Its not like a reasonably intelligent person would say the things I've said, without giving pause to the real and underlying reasons. I did not want any cheerleading, but I didn't want to be kicked while I was down, which I am right now. So I really appreciate the heartfelt responses, and since I sort of write for a living, I'm well aware that the spin I put on my comments have been arrogant and sexually selfish. I tried to paint it with a bit of a bias against me, because if I lied to this board, then I"m only lying to myself. So I've drawn a picture of my feelings that make me look sort of like an ass. Hell, I even said as much. So when you guys remind me of what I already know, well, thats just not helpful.

 

So inspired me, depress me or ignore me, but I'm a big boy, I wanted the hard opinions that others in the lifestyle have, and obviously I'm considering your opinions with a great deal of credibility. And who else can I talk to, except my closest friends who lament with me about how they really understand where I'm coming from.

 

The truth is, I dont' know that I could ever hurt her, like this would hurt her. I can't deliberately take away from her and her family the life, that I've given to them. She has connected with my kids, and with my ex, and we even have dinners together and go on vacations together. So we are all a big and loving family, its just that the paterfamilias, is wanting to be free to enjoy the lifestyle from time to time.

 

So yeah, I'm scum, yeah I am a perv, yeah I don't deserve her, and to be honest, the hardest bit of advice you've given, is that maybe I should leave her merely because she deserves better, and that one point scares me. Because if I can't get my libido back, if I have to turn to porn, and after work masterbation before I go home, so that I don't feel the pressure in p;ushing her to have sex, then I'm worried that I"m only delaying the envitable, i.e. that she ends up very hurt by my inability to get this stuff out of my head.

 

Thanks again for your well intended comments.

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No one said you're a pervert just selfish, childish, a narcissus. You might even have other mental issues since you seem to be having trouble understanding what your girlfriend might be feeling and what she has been feeling for some time.

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And I for one know that I didn't call you stupid or any other degrading words. You have a choice: Her or the LS. Doesn't sound like you can have both. Pick one and go with it. It just seems that most of us would be willing to choose love over casual sex. No matter what you choose, I sincerely wish you good luck in your life.

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I don't think you are really reading the responses.

 

Nobody said anything about being scum or a pervert or anything to that effect.

 

I didn't put you down.

 

And so far there is not a single thing that you have said that I didn't say myself. Even explaining nature, reproduction, difference between live and sex.....and so on.

 

I don't think you're stupid. In fact I believe you're the opposite. You strike me as intelligent, successful, and rational.

 

You're smart enough to recognize that your feelings are irrational but at the same time you still feel them and they don't feel wrong.

 

I get it. Word for word I get it.

 

And you know what. You sound one way to yourself and to others, who don't have the same issues and feelings, you come across as a selfish narcissistic child. AS DID I

 

This board gives great advice. Posting and reading here changed my life. And I'm not all that active.

 

People here are blunt but not bashing. They are experienced. They can see things you can't.

You can't change how you feel. Your feelings have to change. If that makes sense.

 

What you need to do now is chill out. The problem is you. It doesn't seem like that now, I know.

You didn't change the rules. You didn't back out. You have been upfront and honest and now you're getting screwed in the deal.

 

I know.

 

But in the end. Its you. It was me.

 

It took reading a lot of the other similar stories on here for it to sink in how I was carrying on.

Reading stuff like you wrote.....my reaction is...."wow, what a self centered whiny spoiled child"

 

I'd say that and then go. "Holy shit....that's me"

 

After a little while it sunk in and I was embarrassed. It was a wake up call.

So if you think I'm putting you down or kicking you, you are wayyyy off base.

 

I'm telling you what you don't know yet. No matter how much you think you do.

 

I'm talking like this because very very few people can look at what you wrote and really feel it.

 

I lived it. Word for word. And I can flash myself right back and feel that all again.

I'm telling you there is a solution, light at the end. But now is not the time to make drastic decisions.

 

You need something to divert your attention from this for a little while so you can stop the obsession, and allow your head to clear up and stop making things worse for yourself and your partner.

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Actually, given how easy it is to see that you're driving at speed into a very thick wall, the commentary has been quite kind, more of the "Hey, crash coming" variety than anything else.

 

I agree, that I am likely making the lifestyle to be a lot more than it really is, especially in light of my limited experience, but I"m also tickled when you guys castigate me for thinking the lifestyle is such a great thing. Yeah, right. You guys live on this website, writing about this subject on a weekly or monthly, or even a daily basis, but hey, its not that important. Yeah right.

 

I checked the comments again and far from castigating you for thinking the lifestyle is such a great thing, we're saying you clearly have no idea of what is involved in the lifestyle. You seem to think it's about sharing sexy times, getting your freak on and exploring your fantasies. While those things may occur, they're not central.

 

What is central to swinging is the relationships. If, as a couple, it doesn't enhance your relationship, then you shouldn't be doing it. It doesn't matter why it's not additive, it only matters that it isn't.

 

Also, this?:

The truth is, I dont' know that I could ever hurt her, like this would hurt her. I can't deliberately take away from her and her family the life, that I've given to them.

 

There's a lot wrong with that statement, not least the flawed reasoning. You are grudging, obsessed with what you want, act out of pique (really, you threw away your souvenirs?), disrespectful of her reality and holding a massive pity party that doesn't seem like it will end anytime this decade, but you somehow think that by separating, she would be hurt unbearably? Really? If it were me, I'd take it as a favor to have it happen as quickly as possible so that I could get on with my life. Yeah, breakups are painful, but not nearly so painful as trying to work at something that is hollow at its core.

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Never mind what your friends tell you.

 

Your brother has a sexless marriage that's his problem not your relationships problem.

 

You talk about balance in a relationship and then immediately go on to say it has to be YOUR VERSION of a balance or else.

 

You tell us in your first post you only have a few years left because you're getting on in age and then go on to claim it's a midlife crisis. HUH? What is it?

 

The nature of your giddy posts leave me to believe that you are either bi-polar or addicted. Your utopia version of swinging just doesn't exist. As someone else said there ain't no group of shackled women out there waiting to get liberated and buddy, single guys in swinging are a dime a dozen. I put an ad in craigslist and get 60-70 responses in a couple of hours. Hot bodies, huge cocks, claim they can go for hours. You take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself seriously if you really think they're all just waiting for you to show up.

 

Most of us suffer from a mild to moderate addiction when starting swinging but experience soon levels that out and gives us the perspective to put it in balance in our relationship. Where they don't the relationship inevitably gets torn apart. Plenty of stories here about that!

 

That's what relationships are about finding balance that works for both. Not staring in the mirror saying me me me!

 

You remind me of a three year old in the sandbox running home cause he can't get his own way.

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The future told..... from another thread

 

After dating many women and zero interest in swinging

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Again, I understand ya'll opinions. Albeit, when I'm told I'm narcisstic or crying like a three year old in a sand box, then I sort of call that a bit of castigating, but then again, I only want your honest, if not your very assertive opinions. Visexual and Confused have given me great counsel. They feel or have felt my position for sometime, and yet, they have come to terms with it, in a manner that they can live with for the rest of their lives.

 

I'm just looking to find a way to do the same. Find a happy balance between a highly sexual and out there man, and his hot, but monogamous lover.

 

I know its addictive, I've said as much. So again thanks for smacking me around. I will take your comments to heart.

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Part of me is wondering if you came here looking for affirmation in your addiction to the LS because we're swingers and are a part of the LS. But instead, you found the opposite and you are only listening to advice that fits what you want to hear.

 

I hope wish you and your girlfriend the best...what ever the case may be.

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Swinging is supposed to enhance your marriage by its presence, not destroy it in its absence. Slow things down and calm your desire for absolutes. Sex is part of my life, but it's not the only part. I really, truly think you need to assess what you have. When I began dating Ed, I explained that I was non-monogamous and he was fine with that, just asked that I was discrete. I was. When he proposed marriage he asked that we would be monogamous, I accepted him as my husband and the need for monogamy, as well. After some time, he asked if I missed Playing. I said I didn't and he asked to try it. It's been a part of our lives ever since. Yet, if he asked us to return to a monogamous life tomorrow, I'd been all in from the moment he asked. The amazing things we have , would overwhelm the one thing I would no longer have. --Susan

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