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NY2004CTS

Want to surprise my wife with a MFM while on vacation

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I've read just about every post on here pertaining to first time encounters, open dialogue, etc. Although all are very insightful few are the complete directive a newbie needs to instill confidence to take that next step.

 

I've been married to my wife for 19 yrs - together 21. She was a virgin when we married. She was brought up in a very Catholic household where sex was shunned upon. Prior to marriage I had my fair share of sexual exploits. Up until the past couple of years I was content with our sex life, however dull and traditional it may've been. Recently I find myself envisioning us bringing another male into the bedroom. We NEVER talk about sex outside the bedroom while having intercourse. On a few ocassions she has shared very basic fantasies, snippets if you will with me but I could tell they were painful for her to blurt out so I didn't follow up with questions. I've never completely shared my fantasies with her because I don't want her to think I think of her differently than the person I married or the good mother of our son.

 

We're planning a vacation in July. During which period I'd like to take a day trip with her and try a MFM. Would like to meet someone online, develop a rapport with him, establish trust, meet for lunch then afterwards do it in a neutral hotel room. Family members are going with us so we'd have to get a room to avoid detection.

 

I don't need a lecture on the protocols of swinging. Ideally this would only happen once so she's able to experience what sex is like for another person. Personally I'll get satisifaction by knowing she had a great time doing it. No hidden agendas or underlying motives on my behalf.

 

Would some creative husband that has been in a similar situation share some advice with me on how to make this happen? When we watch porno mostly it's MFM so the seed has been inadvertently planted. Just need to find out without being blunt if she's on the same page. Thanks in advance for your assistance. If anyone is apprehensive about placing a post online I have the same screen name for my Yahoo email or instant messenger. Thanks!

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Start talking about your fantasies to her. You say it's hard for her to tell you hers; encourage her, ask questions...once she starts talking, make it CLEAR that her fantasies are a huge turn on to you ... that you're not jealous or feel betrayed in any way. Trickery is BAD, so just make sure she's on the same page.

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I would never try to TRICK her or anyone else into doing something. My motive here is for her pleasure. It has to be something she wants. I know she'll never come out and broach the topic with me. The only time we talk freely about it is during sex but no plans or further happenings are discussed at that point. Because she has no prior experience she has nothing (sexual) to draw from. To put it best, we have a very sheltered sexual life in terms of communications. That partly because I've never shared my past with her - in detail. She knows I've been with several other women but I've never told her what took place and don't feel it's any of her business because it has no bearing on our current sex life. I was just hoping to find someone on here that has had a similar situation and knew the best approach. Chose the vacation in the event it doesn't work out well we didn't do it in our own community. AND then we don't run the risk of the other male reappearing in our personal life. This will not become a lifestyle choice for either of us. I just want her to have the option of trying another guy. Plain and simple!

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I don't need a lecture on the protocols of swinging.

Oh.........really.

 

That would be, of course, because you're well-versed in this endeavor, have studied these threads and know exactly what you're in for when following this line of reasoning...

 

Given that you are ready to move forth...good luck!

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That reference to swinging protocol was made because in the threads I've read, when a common question was asked, it was routinely followed up with a reply (much like yours) that had nothing to do with the question but moreover the do's and don'ts of swinging - or imposing opinion on the post. Time is valuable. Rather than have someone spend effort educating us on lifestyle choices et al. it would be much more informative/helpful for only those who have relevant information pertaining to the topic replying.

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You do plan on bringing the SM up to speed on all of it so he knows what to expect, right?

 

I've been a birthday present a few times, and it's great fun, but being a surprize that may not be well received is NOT fun.

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Yes, absolutely! Everyone will be on the same page that's for certain. Ideally a married male who isn't promiscuous would be perfect.

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This will not become a lifestyle choice for either of us. I just want her to have the option of trying another guy. Plain and simple!

I don't have any experience in setting up the scenario you describe here and can only say it sounds like a bad idea to me, so were I you I wouldn't even think of pursuing this.

 

What I can say from my experience and the experiences of many others is that the quote above is a big assumption on your part, because I can tell you that more often than not if the woman does agree to give this a try, she won't want to stop at just one time. In fact their used to be a saying that goes like this, "men are often the ones wanting to try swinging most, but it is the women that keep them in it for the long run."

 

So I guess my question to you is, what happens if you somehow convince her to try it and she doesn't want to stop at just once? Is this something you are prepared to accept?

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Thanks for your position. It's a valid one. Going into the encounter I planned on telling her that I'm doing this for her and I would be comfortable with a one time fling out of our area. I understand what you're saying tho. Thanks!

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I would never try to TRICK her or anyone else into doing something. My motive here is for her pleasure. It has to be something she wants. I know she'll never come out and broach the topic with me. The only time we talk freely about it is during sex but no plans or further happenings are discussed at that point.

 

If you and your wife cannot or do not talk about this outside the bedroom how do you know that it's something that she wants?

 

Even if what you are wanting and/or planning is just basically a one night stand, if you can't talk about it at the dinning room table over a cup of coffee honestly and openly you are headed for what could turn out to be a total disaster.

 

 

This will not become a lifestyle choice for either of us. I just want her to have the option of trying another guy. Plain and simple!

 

Whether this becomes a lifestyle choice or not, I hope you are prepared for the fact that once you open this can of worms, it can never be closed again. You or your wife will never be able to undo the fact that she has had sex with another man. She may hate it and blame you for suggesting it or she may love it.

 

What are you going to do if you wife really enjoys her MFM threesome and wants another one? If you have the right to ask her to do this, she has the right to ask to do it again. She also has the right to say no and unless you two TALK there is no way you will EVER know what she wants or how she truly feels about this.

 

There are so many things wrong with this it would take a whole day to point them all out.

 

 

Teresa

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Because it doesn't fit the conventional mode of established swinging per se there is something (many things) "wrong" with the potential encounter?

 

If we've gone 20 yrs without sitting at the dining room table talking about sex, then all of a sudden, boom, there it is on the table, isn't there "something wrong" with that? Certainly that would jump off as a red flag to almost any adult.

 

I sincerely appreciate everyone's position, right wrong or indifferent. Everything will be taken into consideration before and/if fantasy ever becomes reality.

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There are so many things wrong with this it would take a whole day to point them all out.

And here I thought I had summed it up nicely....

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Because it doesn't fit the conventional mode of established swinging per se there is something (many things) "wrong" with the potential encounter?

 

Not the encounter itself, but the way you are trying to go about it. We've had MFM threesomes on vacation many times but....WE TALKED ABOUT IT BEFORE HAND.

 

If we've gone 20 yrs without sitting at the dining room table talking about sex, then all of a sudden, boom, there it is on the table, isn't there "something wrong" with that? Certainly that would jump off as a red flag to almost any adult.

 

Ummm...it's a hell of a lot better than springing a threesome on your wife without having talked about it anywhere other than the bedroom and...from your post it seems very little in there.

 

You said you have no hidden agendas or underlying motives...yes you do...you want to see your wife have sex with another man...that is a motive.

 

You have GOT to talk to your wife and know 100% this is something that she wants to try. A spontaneous threesome, is one thing, that's easy to chalk up to a wild night. But, you planning this without her consent is totally different and it will blow up in your face...but hey, if you don't want advice from those of us who have been there, done that...that's fine but you did come to a swingers forum and we're all trying to share with you what we've seen work and what we've seen doesn't work.

 

 

Teresa

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I was in the exact same situation. Experience on my side, little to none on hers. I liked to do all sorts of things and she was just a lay-there-and-enjoy-it type.

 

So, I started by introducing talk - asking what she liked while we did it. I even asked her what she'd prefer to call certain things. Some prefer the P word, some the C word (vagina is too vanilla!).

 

Finally one day I asked her if it was true that all women had the same fantasy as guys - two on one. She blushed and after some stumbling admitted that it was for some women. I zero'd in.

 

She finally admitted that she'd thought about it, but not with anyone in particular and that she'd NEVER do it. I kept talking about it and assured her that I had no problem with her finding other men attractive - it's only natural. I assured her that sex and love aren't the same and that maybe women just can't separate them like men can.

 

To make a long story short within a year we had our MFM. We found a fellow on-line and got to know him. I told her we could just do oral and she said "No. If we're going to do this then I want the freedom to fuck him if I want to." I was stunned. That was the most exciting thing I'd ever heard! Now I knew it was going to happen.

 

She started getting really excited about it and the e-mails that those two exchanged were breath-taking!

 

The whole experience was perfect.

 

Don't rush it. Let it evolve. Don't make it happen in July if it doesn't flow. You do NOT want her feeling like she's letting that guy do her because it is what YOU want. It has to be because SHE wants to.

 

Good luck. Wish I were the lucky guy!

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SPECTRASCHAIN: For someone who presents his position as one speaking from authority/experience, you'd think there would be at least (1) certification on your SLS profile. A fool and his money soon part...

 

Big mistake to treat all newbies as they're idiots. Newbie in a particular field of play but not the game of life. I will not respond to any further of your posts or "wagers."

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I've read just about every post on here pertaining to first time encounters, open dialogue, etc. Although all are very insightful few are the complete directive a newbie needs to instill confidence to take that next step.

 

Well, I'll tell you why I am reluctanct to provide "complete directives" to newbies, and I believe a lot of the members would share my point of view.

 

Often happens that "newbies" comes here asking the same question you did, and wanting to swing for the wrong reasons, or with a wishfull thinking mindsetting believing the reality would perfectly fit their desires and sexual fantasies, or both... as in your case.

 

We're aware of the risks of swinging, of the disastrous consecuences of engaging in swinging from such a weak ground. Instead of helping you reach your goals and "ensure" an outcome you suppose it can be reasured in advance, we foresight the damages you may be doing to your wife and your marriage. So, giving up "the recipe" (if there exist a recipe) as a roadmap to be followed step by step without knowing anything about the terrain by yourself, we'd be helping to destroy your marriage.

 

It seems to me that even when you read around, you did a pretty selective reading, just looking for the information you need, and skipping all the warnings and red flags we use to post way more often than the "how to". If you were reading those warnings, you wouldn't be asking this question nor requeting "a recipe".

 

Time is valuable. Rather than have someone spend effort educating us on lifestyle choices et al. it would be much more informative/helpful for only those who have relevant information pertaining to the topic replying.

 

You're right. Time is valuable for all of us. Besides how well constructed your question was, it falls into the "how I can force my wife to swinging" category. We even made bets on how long it'd take for another husband to come asking the same question (as for you to realize how often we warn people against swinging in similar cases). Insthead of spending YOUR time reading the board, you want us to spend OUR time giving you an advice we feel dangerous for you and your relationship.

 

And this leads to another question: you suppose it's ok for us to provide recipes, as if bringing more people into the lifestyle were our goal, without even caring of the consecuences for them (and for ourselves, because this would be risking to meet drama prone people).

 

So far, I feel your attitude selfish and pretty disrespectfull. I don't care what you mean by "relevant information pertaining to the topic replying", I have the right to disclose or undisclose information under my own terms, following my own conscience and a set of high moral standards most swingers features.

 

If I'am not up to play myself with people that turns me on when I feel the game could damage them, less I am up to help someone else to do it under the very same circunstances.

 

Let's see why I am telling you this:

 

I've been married to my wife for 19 yrs - together 21. She was a virgin when we married. She was brought up in a very Catholic household where sex was shunned upon. Prior to marriage I had my fair share of sexual exploits. Up until the past couple of years I was content with our sex life, however dull and traditional it may've been. Recently I find myself envisioning us bringing another male into the bedroom. We NEVER talk about sex outside the bedroom while having intercourse. On a few ocassions she has shared very basic fantasies, snippets if you will with me but I could tell they were painful for her to blurt out so I didn't follow up with questions. I've never completely shared my fantasies with her because I don't want her to think I think of her differently than the person I married or the good mother of our son.

 

You never completelly shared your fantasies because of this, and you want to bring her the surprise of her life planning an encounter with another guy behind her back? You cannot be serious, and if you do, then you've lost some screws.

 

Either you don't care of the consecuences, for example, if you wife feels insulted and "whored out", turning you into the most lewd of the pimps, or you're the master of the wishfull thinking, believing that the sole experience would change her set of beliefs and the way she thinks, and just the way you'd like her to do it.

 

Forgive me if I am harsh here, but you don't dare to SPEAK to her about your fantasies and you look for our help (first) and another male's help (later) to "open her up" to you? It seems to me you want to leave your responsibility to other people than yourself, which, BTW, leaves you in a pretty confortable place: should things go wrong, you'd be able to blame on swingers, on this board, and on the other guy for the bad outcome, to blame on everyone else but yourself. This would be a selfish and pretty coward attitude.

 

We're planning a vacation in July. During which period I'd like to take a day trip with her and try a MFM. Would like to meet someone online, develop a rapport with him, establish trust, meet for lunch then afterwards do it in a neutral hotel room...

 

You mean, you'd be the only one meeting the guy, your wife taste in this department doesnt care for you, right? You care of your own trust in the guy, even if your wife didn't had time to develop such a trust (because she'd only have a lunch to make up her mind about the whole thing). If you ever manage to get them both in bed, I bet for your wife this would be almost a rape. And I wont help you make this easiest for you.

 

Family members are going with us so we'd have to get a room to avoid detection.

 

How convenient. Let's suppose you have the MFM after forcing your wife to accept (because just a lunch isn't enough time for anyone to make up her mind, if she agrees, either this isn't the wife you described to us, or she'd be coherced emotionally into doing this). Should things goes wrong for her, and giving her education and morals, she'd be forced to put herself togheter to avoid exposing you and the problems in front of your kids and the rest of the family.

 

Well planned! Machiavello would have something to learn from you!

 

I don't need a lecture on the protocols of swinging. Ideally this would only happen once so she's able to experience what sex is like for another person.

 

Yes, you don't need us telling you some truths in your face, you don't need us warning you about the damages, you don't need a lecture on the protocols swingers devised preciselly TO AVOID the hipocracy and the damages.

 

Raise your sight from your own bellybutton. You don't need this, your wife does! Hopefully for her, you will acknowledge our advice. I hope so, for the safety of your marriage, for her safety.

 

Personally I'll get satisifaction by knowing she had a great time doing it. No hidden agendas or underlying motives on my behalf.

 

No hidden agendas. Right. How about the fast lane to turn your wife into the slut you'd like her to be for you, in your bed, afterwards?

 

You only talked about YOUR wishes, YOUR desires, YOUR feelings, dimishing the value for HER wishes, HER desires and HER feeling. Moreover, you not even know about her... you don't even DARE to TALK with her about this subject. You just want to act like a bulldozer, stepping over and smahing whatever she wishes, she desires and she feels, under the wrong (silly, ignorant, prepotent) assumption that you'd have the fiber and the hability to rebuild her wishes, desires and feelings to make them fit your mold. You already proven you don't have the fiber nor the hability! If you CANNOT EVEN TALK TO HER!

 

And you don't even plan to tell her about your "surprise". If this isn't a hidden agenda, I don't know what it could be.

 

Would some creative husband that has been in a similar situation share some advice with me on how to make this happen? When we watch porno mostly it's MFM so the seed has been inadvertently planted. Just need to find out without being blunt if she's on the same page. Thanks in advance for your assistance. If anyone is apprehensive about placing a post online I have the same screen name for my Yahoo email or instant messenger. Thanks!

 

Well, I was right in the same place you was. All my creativity lead me to the same place less creative and way more creative people reached: talk, talk and talk, take my own risks, being MYSELF the only one up to pay for the consecuences. Respect her desires and her own times. It took 15 years for us to do what you suppose you can do in a couple of hours. And it took it FOR US BOTH, and not "for her" to fit my wishes by following a master plan or a recipe.

 

Now, IF you're clever enough, you'd understand I am giving you the best advice I can. It isn't what you wanted to hear, I know, and I don't regret this.

 

However, my guts tells me you're too selfish to acknowledge this. You keep defending your "master plan", you're the genious and, suddenly, the guys you're asking for advice from become a bunch of idiots because we're not slapping your back and giving you the recipe. This reasures my belief about your cowardy, you'll listen ONLY to those reasuring your "master plan", as to be able to blame on them as soon as your wife files the divorce papers to you.

 

And if you do this, she should divorce, without a second tought. If she ever comes here telling us her side of the story on how you humilliated her and destroyed your marriage, I'll be the first one advicing her to divorce.

 

But once again, my gusts tells me you're too confident on her morals and education as to suppose she may ever think of divorce. If not because of you, because of the kids, the family, the values, the religion.

 

I feel deeply sorry for your wife. Even if you don't manage to make this happen, just because she's married with such a selfish and careless guy able to build up, and deffend against our advice, his master plan.

 

I'd say, "shame on you", but people like you doesn't shame. Right?

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Umm, wow. Where to start. Your first post had alot of "I"s in it, and I didnt see alot of "she would like". You're going on vacation with family and you expect her to be comfortable enough to have lunch and then "do it" in a neutral hotel room?

 

You said that after 20 years of sitting at a dining room table and never talking about sex was the norm, but then to talk suddenly would be weird....I would challenge you that 20 years of not talking about sex is weird. As a woman, what would be weird to me is going on a family vacation, never having talked about fantasies, and going to lunch with a guy that my husband thinks I should screw in an hour.

 

Ideally a married male who isn't promiscuous would be perfect.

You can't be serious. Isnt this an oxymoron for a MFM?

 

BTW, some people chose not to have any certifications on SLS......there have been posts on the pros/cons.

 

I'm sorry sir, I call troll.

 

Mrs

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NY, I'm confused on a very important fact. You have numerous details already in mind - details about where this will take place, how you'll meet the guy, even the preference that he be married, there will be lunch, a hotel room, etc.etc. (it's as if the detailed plot is all planned in your mind). But you've never had a discussion with your wife about any of this, to know what she would like or not like. You did say that "everyone will be on the same page" when this happens. My main question is....when are you planning to introduce this whole scenario to her? Very soon? While you're on the vacation? At lunch, when the man you chose arrives at your table, and the key to the hotel room is in your pocket?

 

I've been married to my wife for 19 yrs - together 21. She was a virgin when we married. She was brought up in a very Catholic household where sex was shunned upon.

....We NEVER talk about sex outside the bedroom while having intercourse. On a few ocassions she has shared very basic fantasies, snippets if you will with me but I could tell they were painful for her to blurt out so I didn't follow up with questions.

 

I can't imagine a person who is farther from being a swinger than your wife is. I've read many times on this board (and others) posts just like yours, written by men whose wives are just as conservative and have just as difficult a time (painful for them) discussing even just regular, married vanilla sex. And yet, the man who is posting is hell-bent on changing her into a swinger. I just don't understand why men deliberately choose a very conservative wife as their life partner, and then seem to expect her to change at a rapid pace into a completely different person. :confused: I've often wondered this. Is it fair for you to ask or expect her to change so much?

 

You want to turn this very conservative lady from a strict Catholic way of thinking, into a swinger who will meet a guy and after a quick lunch, will want to have sex with him right then and there - when she's never had sex with a man besides you in her entire life...never even openly discussed sex. This complete transformation will occur in three months or so. I just can't see how this will possibly happen.

 

Yes, absolutely! Everyone will be on the same page that's for certain. Ideally a married male who isn't promiscuous would be perfect.

 

Married men who seek MFM's on swinger sites are 99% of the time, cheating husbands. I just can't picture a good Catholic girl like your wife being okay with this. This is even if you miraculously manage to convert her into a swinger in the next few months. I've been swinging (including MFM's) for about 2.5 years, and I wouldn't touch a cheating husband as a playmate with a 10-foot-pole. I cannot stand cheaters - and I'm not even Catholic or conservative. How will your wife be okay with this?

 

You seem to have so many details planned out already - how are you confident that your wife will want all of these decisions made for her?

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HOLY SH*T! You people are completely nuts! The guy from Argentina - WOW - you're out there! "Rape???" Christ, I haven't seen a psychotic manifesto like that since Ted Kaczynski!

 

With the exception of the guy who sent the account of his first time (which I sent a private message to) the rest of you are the reason why "swingers" are stereotyped!!!

 

If you've made it to this post - save yourself the sanctimonious rant of piling on. I WILL NOT RETURN TO THIS WEBSITE! Have fun blowing smoke up each other's proverbial skirts attempting to justify your own positions or poor choices. Not a shot in hell I would EVER go to a swingers club with my wife solely based on this ONE ONLINE HORRIBLE experience with your (collective) types.

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Seriously, don't ask a question if you're not prepared for the answers :p

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If THIS was an horribe experience for the OP, I cannot even imagine what it would be for his wife to live the experience he's devising for her!

 

The good news: at least he won't attempt to do this to his wife at a swinger's club.

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Not a shot in hell I would EVER go to a swingers club with my wife solely based on this ONE ONLINE HORRIBLE experience with your (collective) types.

Well, first of all.....wouldn't you need to talk with your wife first, before you take her to a swing club? :rollseyes

 

Dude, you got plenty of advice on here from veteran swingers that recommend you don't go through with this fantasy....without your wife's blessing in advance. And I couldn't agree more with them.

 

Brett

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On the odd chance that you are not a troll NY....

 

That time you had set aside during your family vacation:

 

1. Take your wife to that hotel...just the two of you.

 

2. Talk to her about sex and even take both your clothes off (socks too hunny).

 

3. Show her what feels good to you and ask her to do the same.

 

4. Make sure SHE comes before you leave.

 

I would think after that she will be much more open to even discussing sex, let alone fantasies. Just 2 cents.

 

Mrs

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SPECTRASCHAIN: For someone who presents his position as one speaking from authority/experience, you'd think there would be at least (1) certification on your SLS profile. A fool and his money soon part...

 

Big mistake to treat all newbies as they're idiots. Newbie in a particular field of play but not the game of life. I will not respond to any further of your posts or "wagers."

 

 

Just because these fine people do not have any certifications on there profile does not mean they do not have any experience. It just means that they do not want everyone and there brother to know whom they have been with. Which seems to be a good idea from our perspective. We will vouch for Spectraschain that he/they are wonderful intelligent people that have plenty of insight to add to this board.

 

I am sorry if NY2004CTS cannot figure out that you cannot make plans for any type of swinging activity without the 100% consent of all parties involved. In fact if he ever hopes she will have an open mind towards any type of swinging activity it would be advised not to attempt this vacation hook up and when the time is right bring the subject up for discussion.

 

Whatever you decide to do good luck. You're gonna need it.

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Thanks for your position. It's a valid one. Going into the encounter I planned on telling her that I'm doing this for her and I would be comfortable with a one time fling out of our area. I understand what you're saying tho. Thanks!

 

Don't be so sure it would be a one time fling. Regardless of what is stated on this board many women have difficulty seperating love and sex. So, lets say you and your wife follow through on this MFM thing. Don't be shocked if you wife ends up falling head over heels for this dude who just got done fucking her. Just be prepared that you could be disrupting your life as you know it. Read through some of the other posts. Some other dudes wife just fell for some guy who was fucking her. Her hubby is probably kicking himself in the ass that he ever brought the idea up in the first place.

 

By the way. You are right. There are alot of nutty people on this board. I read it purely for entertainment.

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I knew this thread was going to be a train wreck by the way he responded to my earlier comment.

 

And, as LOL_OMG said -- don't ask questions you don't want answers to. If he's truly read the threads on this board, THAT statement should be apparent!

 

Gesh.

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SPECTRASCHAIN: For someone who presents his position as one speaking from authority/experience, you'd think there would be at least (1) certification on your SLS profile. A fool and his money soon part...

 

Please don't assume that those of us who don't have certifications are somehow not experienced and thus somehow not qualified to render their thoughts, advice or opinions. Some of us do not accept or give certifications for various reasons.

 

Personally, I'm of the mindset that if this is meant to be, she'd be highly involved in the planning, picking, etc. Maybe that's just us, but for an MFM, I'm the one who suggested it the activity in the first place, I decided who, and decided it would be okay if it seemed like all of us were on the same page. Further, we talked about the alternative sex activities all the time - outside of the bedroom.

 

But what would I know? I suspect anything said by anyone would be construed as a lecture, and if it's not agreeable, it's just a crazy poster who doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

Bummer that he wasn't interested in actually getting opinions, and has already departed back under the bridge. As always, there was something educational in the thread for a few of us, I suspect.

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To the OP.

 

What are you going to do if she says no? You have put a lot of thought into this, which is good. I'm not bashing your fantasy at all but what happens if she pops your bubble? Wouldn't it be a good idea to get a feel about her thoughts on this before your expectations get too high? I'm wondering what happens after the let down.

 

Assuming she says no of course.

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NY2004CTS said:

With the exception of the guy who sent the account of his first time (which I sent a private message to) the rest of you are the reason why "swingers" are stereotyped!!!

 

WOW We made headway. :claps:

This is the first time I have seen swingers stereotyped as caring people who give a shit about family values. Chalk one up for the swingers! :cheer:

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Be careful there. You might get lumped in with the rest of us smartasses if you aren't careful. ;)

 

Thrax

 

(In my best Southern Drawl)

Now prettylady, don't you let that nice lookin' Thrax frighten you outta the smartass corner. There be plenty of room for your pretty self and your handsome young man over here. My, my, been a long time since I seen handsome that fine lookin' ;) Now you two just come stand ova' here next to me, and let me tell you pretty ones a story now...

 

Once there was this fine looking young gentleman named Thrax...And boy could he make a woman feel...

 

:kissface:

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We NEVER talk about sex outside the bedroom while having intercourse. On a few ocassions she has shared very basic fantasies, snippets if you will with me but I could tell they were painful for her to blurt out so I didn't follow up with questions. I've never completely shared my fantasies with her because I don't want her to think I think of her differently than the person I married or the good mother of our son.

 

!

 

Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE just MAYBE she isn't telling you her fantasies because she fears that you will think differently of her? The very reason you claim to have for not telling her yours?

 

You won't tell her your fantasies but you will spring them on her? How is that respect?

 

I have not finished reading the thread yet because I finally just had to reply, but I have yet to see anywhere if, when or how you plan to let her know about your plan? Are you going to lead her into a hotel room where there is another guy waiting and spring it on her then? Tell her on the way to the hotel room? Or give her the option before you even waste this married cheaters time? And I say married cheater because if he's married and he and his wife aren't swingers to begin with.... then he's a cheater and chances are he's promiscuious.

 

Guess what, just because you've been together for 20 years doesn't mean things can't change. YOu obviously WANT things to change. But you want them to change YOUR way and in YOUR time. Just because you've been doing something for 20 years doesn't mean it's working.

 

Not a shot in hell I would EVER go to a swingers club with my wife solely based on this ONE ONLINE HORRIBLE experience with your (collective) types.

 

I kept reading some more... realized most of what I said had already been said...but I saw this....

 

DUDE! You will never go to a swinger club with your wife because she would never go with you and if you did manage to get her to go with you, she would look just like some other wives I have seen dragged to clubs who sit at the table and look miserable while their husbands are out carousing and trying to get attention from other women. Hoping that some hot woman's husband will look over at your wife and not notice the look of pure disgust on her face and only see another hot body to hit on so that she will feel desired and get her over her lack of desire to be there. It doesn't work that way. Even if some schmuck did look at her and see hot body instead of "damn she really doesn't want to be here" and did hit on her, she's only going to recoil and freak out.

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Damn:

You can actually contemplate watching your wife have sex with another man and plan to act this out. Yet you can not even talk to her about sex outside of the bedroom? How are you going to bring this up and discuss it so that you "are all on the same page"? Only an ass would consider doing this to a woman that he loved. I take that back, No one could consider doing this to someone that they really loved.

 

BTW: Here is the recipie that you wanted for making this all happen:

 

COMMUNICATION. If you had actually read any of the other threads on this board, you would already know that the one thing consistant for all swingers is that they COMMUNICATE. Since swinging is mainly to a great extent about sex, that means that you have to be able to talk to your partner about sex. If you can not do that you are not cut out for any type of extra maritial sexual activity except cheating.

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WOW!!! What a thread! I'm gonna do a follow-up on sereneider's thread, but wanted to say here:

 

Even if it isn't rape, it is nonetheless very selfish, potentially dangerous, cold and callous to put your wife in such a position.

 

I am married to a very strong-minded, self-assured, independent, and extroverted southern woman, and I feel absolutely certain that if I ever sprang something like that on her, she would stab me with the closest sharp instrument (and she enjoys MFMs!!)

 

You know what? I could give a sh$t less if other guys think I'm a pussy because I respect my wife, and women in general. This guy is under a psychotic delusion, and it is crap like this that really does give us a bad name. Yes, I love my wife. She does a lot of freaky sh%t with me and for me. Why? Because she knows that I respect her enough to let her come to terms with what kinkyness I'm asking for now and give her thorough consent before anything happens.

 

Good riddance.

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While I fully understand each position presented - and agree with almost all of it - I think the approach here was not the best.

 

This was a newbie that was having high levels of fantasy frustration. This can get to a male when you spend too many hours within XXX and mentally living through fantasies. You can start to think that your wife has all the same thoughts a feelings within her and you need to drag them out. But, in reality she's worried about anything but sex.

 

What needed to happend here was a brake job. He needed to be slowed down, sat down, and brought back to reality. He needed to know that there is a way to approach this, but forcing it into his plans and timetable is not the way to go about it.

 

Instead he was beaten up, slapped upside the head, called names, and accused of wanting to do horrible things to the woman he's loved enough to stay married to for 20 years.

 

When talking to newbies, remember that you aren't talking to peers. In many years of marriage counselling, there were only two cases I can recall where brute force was applicable. In one case I didn't use it, the marriage failed, and I later learned that brute force may have helped. In the second case I used brute force and saved a 5-year marriage.

 

Finesse is an art. Sometimes you just need to first gain someones confidence, then sit them down, calm them down, talk thing out, then help them change their course.

 

I think this is a terrific site with many talented, educated, and experienced people that for the most part are concerned for everyone they touch.

 

Take this in the spirit it was intended - to add to the help. I don't mean it to be critical.

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What needed to happend here was a brake job. He needed to be slowed down, sat down, and brought back to reality. He needed to know that there is a way to approach this, but forcing it into his plans and timetable is not the way to go about it.

 

Hi Bedmates, I think that some of the posts here were of the type described in the quote.

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Bedmates

You have been registered on these boards a lot longer than I, compared to some of the archives I thought people were very nice to this guy. His attitude warranted more than he recieved, IMO. He asked for advice, then took offense to it. That's no ones fault but his own.

 

Mr. Lol

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Bedmates,

 

Since I was the main one knocking on this guy head, I feel compelled to answer your post.

 

I agree with you on what to do with newbies. If you look around, you'd see I often take time to answer as deeply and respectfully as I can. However, for this to happen, the poster (even if disagreeing) have to acknowledge everyone else opinions, moreover when their purpose os to provide the advice the guys is asking for in the first place.

 

Not all the newbies are the same, nor all of us have the same personality structure. This guy is narcissistic, perhaps to the point of turning this into a disorder. He asked for advice, he was advised against carrying on his plan... and suddenly he dislike the advice, defending his plan by means of attacking everyone who wasn't up to raise the thumbs, and questioning their experience value. So, he wasn't here looking for advice, but for reassurance, proving to be narcissistic, and a narcissistic guys wouldn't choose to held responsibility for his mistakes should he have the chance to blame on others. His plan was manipulative, and he attempted to do the same with us.

 

I was blunt, and I posted another thread asking for alternative ways to deal effectively with people like this guy. I don't regret my words, I believe it was necessary to shock him by making him aware what he planned could be seen as an attempt to rape his wife, hoping this isn't his original plan, but also hoping him to understand his plan could lead to a very similar degree of violence towards his wife.

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sereneiders said:
Bedmates,

 

Since I was the main one knocking on this guy head, I feel compelled to answer your post.

 

I disagree that you were the only one that was matter-of-fact. The way it all read seemed like you were direct and then others took their shots - well meaning as they were, but together overwhelming. I certainly wasn't trying to place blame, merely expressing my observation. My guess would be that he felt ganged-up on, which is how I read it as well.

 

You points and concerns are valid and quite possible accurate. We don't know the real intent and are only guessing. To suggest rape is rather strong, but it certainly didn't seem like he was in it for her.

 

I just think this was a case that should've been taken slowly, that's all. I'm certain that everybody meant well, but I think it was a bit much when added up.

 

I also agree that he should've stuck it out. I believe someone stated "if you can't take the answer, don't ask the question." If you post a question on a forum like this, you have to understand that you're going to get all kinds of opinions and just deal with it. Unfortunately, he didn't have the patience for that.

 

Personally I saw a problem and would've preferred to talk him through it for the sake of his wife (first) and his marriage (second) - both seemingly in jeopardy.

 

I'll move to your post to discuss specifics if you like.

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...Which brings us back to the original point. I, too, was very blunt. I think this entire thread would have went a different direction had the guy came back after what was said and said something like "I see your point, or no, that's not how I meant it." This guy teed off on anyone who had anything the least negative to say to him.

 

We are adults here, and this is not the first time someone has said something and got flamed for it. With any board, you take a risk when you put something out there. You come to these boards to get opinions, and if you put it out there, we will give you our opinion, whether you want to hear it or not.

 

I feel I can safely say that many of us, through either personal experience or anecdotal experience saw where this was going, and felt genuine concern for the woman involved. Those of us who are experienced swinging husbands have a propensity for being very protective of our women, and all women in general. We big, macho boys can take care of ourselves.

 

If I said something out of line, I have complete trust that the folks on this board would call me on it. That's why I spend so much time here. We are a community that really cares about one another in pursuit of our lifestyle, and make no apologies for being swift and decisive in defending it against those who give it a bad reputation.

 

While it is ultimately none of my business what another person, couple, group, etc. decides to do, if you ask my opinion, I will give it. Newbie or not, some lines shouldn't be crossed.

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My guess would be that he felt ganged-up on, which is how I read it as well.

I agree that it appears that he was ganged-up on. I don't agree that it was an incorrect response though. If I started a thread and said that the sky is red, no doubt everyone would come on and say the sky is actually blue. As more than likely no one would agree with me it would be everyone ganging up on me, and while I may not like it, when everyone had their say, the sky would still be blue and not red.

 

So, I do not see how we could have possibly pointed out the error in this OP's thinking in any other way. I just reread the whole thread and for the most part, all the replies were the only replies that would be appropriate given the scenario presented by the OP.

 

The OP said that the responses here are the reason that swingers are stereotyped. yet he obviously had swingers stereotyped in exactly the way the world at large stereotypes us (as in - sex addicted lunatics with absolutely no morals at all) to believe that he would have received any other response to his original post than he did.

 

The bottom line is the answers he received were not the ones he wanted to here, yet they were the only honest answers that could be given.

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