The desire to and the reasons for swinging become very blurred

[Tarnished Halo]

Hello Everyone,

I have been reading for quite a while, and have come to the conculsion that at times, swinging can become more confused outside of the realtionship issues that is. and that reading the board, one gets the vague impression that many times, the desire to swing and the reasons for swinging become very blurred. Perhaps this is because some of the people posting are way more experienced, and they are coming from the position that most of their issues have been addressed and solved. At times, the "desire" to swing has now become the focus, and the swinging itself is no longer an issue and therefore, isn't questioned as someone who is still struggling with resolving their own personal issues.
Quite a few seem to give the impression that the reasons they are doing it (swinging that is), is the sex itself, or the desire to play with someone else, which can subconsciously come across as somewhat contrary to the "reasons" couple investigate playing sexually with other people. This can be quite confusing when you don't have a broad range of experience so that people don't knowingly cross the lines of what's going to be a very good experience, and what's going to cause some real problems.

I hope that has made some sense, as I have tried to determine before what swinging involved both in my relationship, and the qualities that we as a couple are trying to develop in our attitudes in swinging. For example, if my husband expressed an interest "AT THIS POINT IN OUR EXPERIENCE" (by the way...NO, we are not swinging, and are not going to until we are more prepared to) in baggin'' some babe because of his hormones, instead of approaching me with some more "our relationship" direction, I would instantly say no. I guess what I am saying, is that I realize that there are women out there that he would love to be with sexually, but at this point.....it isn't ABOUT him being with someone that he wants to be with sexually! If there isn't something in us being sexual with others that includes me, or us...then it ain't gonna happen.

This is a hard subject to address, I hope that I have stated it in a way that others understand what I am trying to say, but I just realized that all this can be quite confusing! Gads!!!!

[pelagic argosy]

I'll put it as simply as possible. People swing because they want to have sex with people other than their spouses. Husbands want the other guy's wife and vice versa. Anyone who says differently is kidding themselves! I've read this board for about two years now and it's funny how people try to add some emotional rationalization to it. It's all crap! If it was all about making friends and developing "deep meaningful relationships," it wouldn't end with me banging the crap out of some guy's wife. Hanging out afterwards is a bit surreal, for me.

Here's another joke about the swinging scene: "We only sleep together after we get to know each other." Puh-lease! It seems to me that swingers must be extra good at getting to know each other, since it seems to take only a few hours.

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by pelagic argosy
I'll put it as simply as possible. People swing because they want to have sex with people other than their spouses. Husbands want the other guy's wife and vice versa. Anyone who says differently is kidding themselves!

Well let me be the first to say I firmly disagree with your opinons.

We swing because it is enjoyable and allows us to experiment in sexual avenues that just aren't able to be done with two. Not because we want or need to have sex with someone else's spouse, or even that we desire to.

Here's another joke about the swinging scene: "We only sleep together after we get to know each other." Puh-lease! It seems to me that swingers must be extra good at getting to know each other, since it seems to take only a few hours.

I'm not sure where you hang out, but I know relatively few swingers that jump into the sack with just anyone that they meet...within a few hours. Maybe it is differnt for where we live or different in how we choose those that we meet.

It's all crap! If it was all about making friends and developing "deep meaningful relationships," it wouldn't end with me banging the crap out of some guy's wife. Hanging out afterwards is a bit surreal, for me.

Again, I'm not sure where it is you are coming from, however, I can honestly say it hasn't been like that for us. Even in the worst of times.

[Chicup]

flamethrow Troll post!

We've never had sex with anyone we met for the first time.

Swinging has made our marriage stronger.

I have a great friend who's wife I bang the hell out of

Moral of the story, go troll elsewhere.

[LadyCleo]

Because I agree with the post from pelagic argosy. I'm sure that there are going to be people who disagree. But I have seen 1st hand, the things that he says.
And if you do cut it down to the nitty gritty, it is about having sex with someone else who is not your spouse. There may be other things involved, but that is the most basic and primal part.

I'm sorry that the above posters are offended by pelagic argosy's ability to cut through all of the B.S. that we have to tell ourselves and we tell each other to justify the "lifestyle"

With that being said, *I* don't have a moral problem with my husband "banging" another man's wife...as long as I get to watch!

LC

[Tarnished Halo]

I had never intened this post to be quite so blunt, and to be honest, I am not interested in "banging someone's husband" as my primary motivtion for swinging.

What I really want is to expand my relationship with my husband, to share our sexuality with someone else and their relationship, including the friendship.

If his reasons (my husband that is), is only interested in banging someone else, he would prolly' do so, and we would then be in divorce court.

There is of course this fine line as a couple that we (I feel anyways) must walk without falling into one side the pit of having quickie affairs, or on the other degenerating into fucking machines. I've put a LOT into our relationship, and it seems reasonable to me that an equal amount of consideration should go into our choices that can turn around and bite us in the butt! I for one, would not try crack cocaine even once, as the dangers are simply too well known, I don't want the problem, and basically, I am not a druggie. Should I then equate that to swinging? I read of many problems that would not have existed if people had not opened their beds to others. However....does it have to be that way? ARE there dangers that swinging is going to damage your relationship if you aren't aware, or cautious or caring enough that are going to cause massive problems? I think that there are, but the choices have to be made with the thought in mind that what you really want is to enhance your relationship, not destroy it. That is the biggest reason why we are NOT swinging yet. We might not ever, but the biggest payoff (for us anyway) so far, is not who we get to bang, or that we even get to bang someone else, but that we are starting to talk in such a way that we never have before.

Having said that, there are still some cautions in your languaging. How many questions come up from guys about how to get their wives into swinging? How many guys sleep on the couch, or forever have their wives look at them from the corner of their eyes because they have gone into a direction that their wives are horrified that they want to do WHAT????? (those things can echo throughout your entire relationship).

Being the cautious one, I do not want (this again however is based a lot as I understand it on experience) my relationship to devolve (for us that is, your relationship is yours) into gee honey, I would really like to fuck her, mkay?

I was just letting people know that there are areas of confusion for those of us trying to navigate this obstical course and still maintain our initial objectives..

The biggest reason for this is there is NO right way to swing (but for me, there is a RIGHT reason), so in addition to determining what is right for us, and trying to determine what is the reasons THEY are swinging, and if it is RIGHT for us, I just tend to sometimes get confused.

[Elusive BiFem]

Hi, Tarnished. I’m glad to see you back on the Board posting, but I’m sorry to see that you still have so much confusion swirling around in the brain after all this time. It’s almost as if I can see you going through this decision making process, and from my vantage point, it seems that it is almost painful for you. Maybe I’m wrong.

I read your first post and decided not to respond. Actually, I was a bit confused as to what you were really asking, if anything. Sometimes it seems that you are just “writing it out” to clarify things in your own mind. But after reading the responses and your second post, I thought I’d offer my comments.

I believe, on the most primal level, swinging is about sex. The thought starts there – at that level. And let’s just face it. Sex is fun. For many of us, years back…we really couldn’t admit to enjoying sex for the sake of sex. How many of us, in our really younger years, professed a great love for some little boy (and maybe even talked ourselves into believing it) so we could justify sex. And I wonder how many marriages were created just to justify the sex, not to even mention the babies that were created. The bottom line, tho’, was we enjoyed the sex and the way it made us feel. Physically and emotionally. Physically…an orgasm feels good. Emotionally…I’m attractive. I’m sexy. I can turn someone on. And how many of us, tho’ we may not admit to it, had those occasional “one-night stands?” And who knows…this many years later, we may still be thinking, “How could I have done something like that!” Because it felt good. It was exciting. It was different. It held the element of the forbidden. Because we could abandon the idea of the emotional aspects and focus on the purely physical.

So, yes…swinging is about sex. But, fortunately, for most successful swingers, it develops beyond just sex into something more than just sex. Now the word successful can be defined any number of ways, but my definition falls in the area of a couple that can share the physical pleasures of their sexuality with others while maintaining an emotional connection for just themselves – not to be shared.

The other attraction, I think, involves that emotion-free zone. In a relationship filled with love and commitment, the daily, weekly, monthly sexual antics between a couple can become almost a burden at times. Regardless of how they may try, they can’t always have the passionate sex-filled nights filled with love and emotional bonding. They can’t always be “in tune” with each others needs, just by virtue of life/family pressures, and that can and does sometimes cause problems in their own sexual relationships. Unfortunately, we do tend to take each other for granted. We do tend to get caught up in thinking of each other as Mommy the diaper changer or Daddy the yard man. So many couples (and yes, I’ve been one) talk about everything under the sun but their sexuality – bills, supper, kids…then fall into the bed and suddenly they’re supposed to be turned on by each other?

With some couples, swinging allows an avenue for each person to really feel good about themselves and their partner. They see their partner in a different light. They see a sexy and stimulating and titillating side of that person they may not have seen in years. They see someone other than the diaper changer or the yard mower. They see their partner experiencing different physical feelings and sensations.

They also do form friendships…contrary to some opinions. They see a couple they can talk openly and freely with about their own sexuality. They can share a friendship bond that it totally unlike other friendship bonds.

And when they go home together, they can really focus on each other. Not just getting off for the sake of getting off, but a coming together in spirit and emotion that they may not have had the opportunity to experience for quite some time. There is no need for him to try to “be certain” she has an orgasm. That is just a small part of the experience between a committed couple. The biggest part, I think, is the emotional or mental orgasm. Much more powerful in my estimation.

The other thing is yes…most of us (not all, but most) find ourselves, over time, wondering about others. What would he be like? Wow! She’s great looking. Making those comparisons that can get any relationship in trouble. Or wondering about same sex experiences. Every magazine you pick up is full of articles on how to prevent your husband from straying, keeping his attention, etc., etc. We may not like it, but it is a fact. I don’t recall the actual statistics and they vary, but a huge percentage of people stray outside the marriage. Most out of curiosity and/or boredom. Rarely does the single woman that has an affair “get the man” in the end. Most return home. But what a horrible situation for the wife…lying next to someone night after night…wondering why, who, again in the future? Few people can ever really trust again. Now swinging…if we accept the fact that many stray out of curiosity and/or boredom, is it not better to stray together? Knowing that you will come home together and share your experiences? Knowing that you’ve talked about it, discussed it, formulated the boundaries that are acceptable to both? Knowing that there is no emotional bonding outside the bounds of friendship? Knowing that you are the one he is committed to? Knowing that the sex that was shared with others was just that. Sex for the simple pleasures of sex.

In my opinion, people should never enter into swinging lightly; however, many of us do initially and that is where problems surface. A really successful swinging relationship among all parties requires experience and practice. Just like a successful marriage does. You’ve made mistakes in your marriage. You will make mistakes as you enter swinging. But as I recall, you’ve been married for many years. Obviously, you’ve weathered the storms and corrected those mistakes. The same principal applies to swinging. Be ready to admit your mistakes, correct them, and move on. There isn’t a “manual” for marriage because every marriage is different. You end up writing your own. There isn’t a “manual” for swinging, because each encounter is different. You have to write your own manual for swinging.

I don’t know if this answered your questions. I just felt like writing it. - EBF

[bear_n_bunny]

First off, I am of the opinion that "pelagic argosy" is full of crap. Yeah, there are some swingers who are bedhoppers and work to bang everything and everyone they can get their hands on. However, all the swinger couples we associate with do NOT play that way. We nor they jump into bed with anyone right off the bat. But then, we have always sought more than just "fuckbuddies" or what-have-you. There is a lot more to the people we play with than just sex. What we go for is the "friends with benefits" arrangement, which is far more satisfying than just jumping into bed with whatever swinging you-name-it that comes around.

Having said that, when you get down to it (and I think this is what EBF was driving at), swinging is about recreational sex. Not many couples can do this, because one or the other member of the couple (usually the female) can't handle the concept. This is not a criticism; just reality (which is why so few couples do this compared to the population as a whole).

This is why that unless both of you are mentally and emotionally ready for swinging, it's best not to do it, because if you are not, then yes, you can wreck your marriage. We've seen a number of couples where (usually) the man has wheedled his wife into trying it, even though she is not ready. These we avoid like the plague.

You have to look at swinging for what it is; recreational sex play with people you know and trust, and the fun and pleasure one gets from it. The concept is simple but the execution is very complex. And for God's sake, don't rush into it until you are both 100% ready for it.

-- Bear

[austxmark]

The comment made by bearnbunny:

"First off, I am of the opinion that "pelagic argosy" is full of crap. Yeah, there are some swingers who are bedhoppers and work to bang everything and everyone they can get their hands on. "

was not even close to what pelagic argosy said. Being about sex primarly is not the same as jumping into bed with anything and everything.

I agree, generally with pelagic argosy because I think the first focus is sex. I also think that there are other reasons IN ADDITION to sex. We can talk about all the bonding and emotional support and deep relationships that come from swinging, but all that can be attained by not having sex. So why do we have sex? because it fun..Pure and Simple.

[sportync]

Elusive, you touched on some very good points and I would tend to agree with each and every one of them. I would just add that sexual desire and sexual fantasies are not something that we decide on as individuals. I can not really choose what turns me on. I know what turns me on, or excits me, stimulates me or gets my motor running. I can certianly recognize it, but I didn't conciously choose to be turned on by the things that I find exciting....I just find them exciting. I can choose to act on them or not. Once a couple becomes a couple, the fantasies that they can share together can make for some really great exploration, but I think most people tend to hold back from fear that they might appear kinky, perverted or a sex-fiend and this is a side of themselves that they might tend to keep from their partner. Everyone's fantasies are different. Yet, one person in the relationship will tend to dominate the sex life of the relationship. It is usually the one with the lowest sex drive. So, where does this leave the other person? They have these desires that they would like to explore, yet they know it will never happen. Well, they are right unless they open up and communicate their desires to their partner. If you really love someone, you want them to fulfill their fantasies. Swinging allows this freedom of discovery in a way that is out in the open without all the lying, cheating and sneaking around that usually happens when a married person wants to fulfill a fantasy. I have personally found group sexual experiences a major turn on ever since I was young. Some of my most memorable sexual experiences have envolved more than two people. I can't tell you why I find this type of activity exciting, I certianly didn't choose it, it chose me. But there it is. Does this mean that I love my wife any less? Of course not. Does this mean that I could live the rest of my life only having sex with my wife. Yes, I certianly could as she is beautiful, sexy, desirable and marvelous in bed. Would I jump at the opportunity to add another person or couple into the mix? You bet your ass I would! But if I thought it would cause pain or unhappiness to my wife, I would say, forget it...her emotional stability means more to me than a wild night in bed with someone else.
Only through open communication can these things be addressed and even if you don't ever actually hook up with another couple or individual, the discussions themselves can be a wonderful tool for learning more about not only your partner, but yourself as well. It can also lead to some really great love-making. Even if the fantasies are something you decide not to act on, just talking about them can really rejuvinate a relationship.
I think that a lot of people have hang-ups about things they haven't tried just because society has been telling them for years that it's wrong or evil or bad. If they ever get over the brain-washing and actually try some of these things for themselves, they often realize that , hey, this is fun! It's exciting! This feels good! My husband is pounding my best friend and his husband is pounding me and it feels good! And I still love him and he still loves me and we're having a really good time! And, yes, I was a little pissed when he started licking my best friend, but then her husband started licking me and God, it felt good. Just the freedom to be completely naked with people you never thought in a million years that you would be naked around can be wonderfully exhilirating experience. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Marriages, like kids, don't come with any instruction book or guarantee. We're all pretty much on our own and have to figure everything out between ourselves. I guess that's what makes us strong....overcoming obsticles and figuring out just how to best satisfy the needs and desires of both people. Sportync

[SexhoundDog]

I think Elusive BiFem's post is perhaps the most awesome and truthful one I've ever read. It hit on just about everything that I think crosses everyone's mind. Excellent post, truly excellent!

[saranmark]

Bear, remember when I said that I agree with you more than half of the time? This is one of those times!

I don't even have to add anything-- Bear and EBF's posts say everything I wanted to!

SARA

[incommunicado]

Originally posted by pelagic argosy
I'll put it as simply as possible. People swing because they want to have sex with people other than their spouses. Husbands want the other guy's wife and vice versa. Anyone who says differently is kidding themselves! I've read this board for about two years now and it's funny how people try to add some emotional rationalization to it. It's all crap! If it was all about making friends and developing "deep meaningful relationships," it wouldn't end with me banging the crap out of some guy's wife. Hanging out afterwards is a bit surreal, for me.

Here's another joke about the swinging scene: "We only sleep together after we get to know each other." Puh-lease! It seems to me that swingers must be extra good at getting to know each other, since it seems to take only a few hours.

I would both agree and disagree. There are pleanty of people who are only in it for the sex with others, no stringd attached. There are some who claim that swinging saved their marriage because they couldn't stop cheating on each other and now they don't have to worry about it. There are some who have very strong relationships are are secure in their desire for no strings, non-commital sex. And, I firmly belive that singles (both men and women) use swinging as a grocery store for easy and exciting sex rather than just hitting the bar scene. I honestly don't believe that swinging is a singles activity except for the rare occasion when a friend/neighbor/stranger ivites you to share his wife or her husband. But. that's me being opinionated.

But, there are those of us who also have altruistic, relationship enhancing reasons. For instance, all my ex-girlfriends cheated on me so I had a lot of insecurities over this. When I met a woman (my wife) who knew how to make a real committment, I could think of no greater gift than to give up my insecurities all together and watch her enjoy sex with another man. Our fantasies and experiences have grown from there, but the start was entirely atruistic.

In a nutshell, do I think about banging my neighbor's wife? Sure! But I also think about my wife banging my neighbor. I see this as an extension of the desire to give and receive pleasure that we normally would keep as a one-on-one experience in marriage.

As far as disputing the desire for friendship in swinging . I only want to have sex with friends. Our friendships range in age from 7 to 20+ years and I expect the same initial feeling of bonding with a friend I might sleep with, as with a friend that I wouldn't. I have no interest in disconnected sex with people I don't care about who don't care about me. I want to lay there afterward enjoying their company or be able to go for pizza when we're done.

Lastly, with regard to the speed with which these friendships form... I met my wife, slept with her before our first date, was engaged in three weeks and celebrated our 11th anniversary last May, and I like to think that we are friends. It happens.

[RMRx2]

Originally posted by SexhoundDog
I think Elusive BiFem's post is perhaps the most awesome and truthful one I've ever read. It hit on just about everything that I think crosses everyone's mind. Excellent post, truly excellent!

DITTO



whew!,this thread got to rockin, but GOOD STUFF hey watt?

to save much typing,,,,,may we just say ditto to sexhoundDog's post

rmrx2

[NealnAnji]

"hope that has made some sense, as I have tried to determine before what swinging involved both in my relationship, and the qualities that we as a couple are trying to develop in our attitudes in swinging".

The posting by Tarnished Halo impressed us immensely. As an inexperienced couple we are going through the same thought process regarding swinging or actually swapping mates with another couple for sex. To our inexperienced mind, however, swinging definitely does not appear to be just about "banging the hell of another guy's wife". Even though it may (and often does) involve sexual intercourse with someone else's wife or husband there has to be something more than "just fucking" him or her. If the other couple were someone we did not like the sex part will definitely not happen. On the other hand, the desire for sex with his /her best friend's wife husband comes about because of mutual admiration and attraction in dimensions other than pure physical attraction, even though physical attraction may be a contributing or dominating factor. One does want to take the friendship with him/her of the other couple to another and definitely higher level that would mean more than just holding hands or a kiss on the cheek. To make this connection with the individual does involve sexual intimacy, foreplay and sexual intercourse where both partners experience the pure joy of sex and orgasmic release.

Of course, there are those who will disagree and deny that swinging is about friendship or making a connection at a transcendental or sexual level with the individual who happens to be someone other than one's wife/wife .

Our kudos to Tarnished Halo for her brilliant postings that have generated such meaningful discussion.

N&A