Why the heck DO I swing anyway??? - Long, read at your own risk

[rpu3]

Why the heck DO I swing anyway??? AKA
Long Winded Kudos of sorts to the Experienced Ones

Last week there was a thread asking why we swing (or was it Why Swing?). My short answer was “why not?” Last night, I got into a discussion with the spousal unit in which I was listing everything that is difficult for me in swinging and ended it with “why do I bother? Is this even worth it?”

Some of you more experienced ones might relate in that swinging is or once was a learning curve and progression. We would fit best under the label of “newbie” – a few experiences, but not enough to be called experienced.

As a bit of background: Unknown entities tend to view me as “quiet”, “reserved”, “uptight”, “icy”, “focused” and finally, my personal favorite, “bitch” (hey, if that label keeps a jerk out of my cube, then I like it). Those who bother to get to know me, or whom I’ve decided to get to know find that there’s a lot of other labels that fit better. I have a small circle of good/close friends, a few acquaintances, but I would call myself socially awkward. Mark, on the other hand, seems to know everyone, and has friends and acquaintances everywhere. He’s outgoing, is rarely tongue-tied, and people seek him out. However, in swinging, this is not the ideal situation given our typical interactions are MFM. It’s not like I can send Mark over to go flirt with a guy on my behalf.

So, I’ve had to work very hard to try to overcome my normal tendencies in order to participate equally in our swinging. I never seem to catch the social clue-by-fours – we’ll go home from any number of events and I tell Mark that it didn’t seem like XYZ was interested in me and he’ll look at me like I’m crazy and start laughing and tell me “HOW COULD YOU MISS THE INTEREST????!!!??? And while we are on the subject, I can’t believe that you just said “see you around sometime” instead of saying something about perhaps getting together – that was the most horrific goodbye I’ve ever witnessed!!!???!!!” And heaven forbid if it’s in an email – I’ll still show it to Mark and say, “do you think he’s interested?” Then Mark ends up with a concussion from the repeated banging his head against the wall.

Okay, so we have this dichotomy we like MFM play, but I miss all the clues about possible interest. If that problem is actually overcome, and we progress to potentially something more, then the real fun begins, as newbies. For example, we have actually managed to set something up in the near future, but I feel like I’ve already screwed it up eight ways from Sunday. In this instance, it’s meeting at a hotel, which we’ve not done before. I don’t know the etiquette for who sets it up and who pays. Who does the research to find a place? I ended up cashing in hotel points that were about to expire – but I felt like that I was being too presumptuous in picking THAT hotel, and cashing in. Afterwards, I search the boards and find there are about eleventy-two hundred opinions as to who handles what and who pays what.

Then we get to figure out the “rules of engagement”. Okay, that part isn’t so bad, but then I’m worrying that I’ve said something wrong in an email or chat, or that I’ve probably made us look boring because I don’t think we are the kinkiest people on earth – I/we like sex. I don’t need a scenario where one is dressed like Krusty the Clown who ties me up in the back of a VW Bug. At least I/we don’t right now. So I search the board again about this topic, and it seems like we are really dull by comparison since we don’t really do much with toys, video cameras, dirty talk, edible underwear, etc. Gosh, who’d want to do anything with us since we don’t do that right now? And I thought I/we were a decent lay! So, I’m now waiting for the “thanks, but I don’t think this is going to work because you guys sound really boring and too inexperienced.”

Then we get to move on to picking a time so I can set up a dogsitter. I have two people telling me it’s up to me – and I’m now getting pissed at this point that a) I cannot find anything on the board that says XYZ time is the BEST time and b) I’m tired of being so damn new that I run around trying to defer to everyone else, and all it’s doing is annoying the others and c) why do I have to pick the time? Fine, I pick X as the time and I don’t want to hear about it from the spousal unit later that it’s too early or late!

Now I’m at the stage where I’m worrying about “this is going to be horribly awkward, isn’t it?” to “how are we going to start this?” Back to the boards. D@mn it! One hundred more opinions! Don’t dare start a new thread – there’s already a dozen threads on ice breakers and I don’t want to get chewed out and linked to other threads! So I decide to obsess on a different topic, like personal grooming, since I get horrible razor burn no matter what, so things must be timed carefully. Back to the board. Well, at least there’s only about 15 variations of what to do about that. And what to wear? How long do we expect (the housesitter issue again…)? The always pending question as to “what do you do right afterwards”? Back to the boards – and by this time, I’ve think I’ve read everything from 2005, and some select 2003 and 2004 threads… no wonder I have no desire to do any research at work.

So why do I do it? I’m sure there’s a person or two out there that may very well jump on me and say I shouldn’t be doing this. Well, I do it because I can, and because everyone was new once and had their own issues in settling in. I do it because I can eventually shut off my head and quit thinking so damn much about right versus wrong in the hours before it happens and it’s then fun (at least MFM always has been to date). It isn’t something the two of us can pull off on our own! But I’d like to know why there isn’t a
etiquette book out there!

So, thank you for your indulgence in newbie whining – I offer my sincere admiration to you experienced folks that survive your own newbie period and progressed to the point where it is far less work, effort, thinking and b.s., and just far more fun.

[havefuninsun]

Honey, I'm not gonna say you shouldn't swing. Tell us, though -- what do you LIKE about it? Tell us the good parts too. What you might find is that the good outweighs the bad.

You've admitted your personality can be termed "uptight" sometimes ... I think that is why you feel the pressure that you do ... and get discombobulated (not sure if that's a real word, but you know...) when trying to coordinate plans. I think you're nervous ... and if you let yourself think about it, maybe your nervous in a good, EXCITED way when meeting people, so the details just seem overwhelming.

God I know I get nervous. I can't TELL you how many times I change clothes before going on a date. And I think of myself as a pretty self-confident person (as I'm sure you do as well), but "dating" is nerve-racking!

So ... put yourself in the "fun situation" -- then you may realize, "ok, it's a pain, there's a lot of bs, but I have to say, I'm have a REALLY fun time."

Let it be all good ...

[Jalean73]

OMG...you've hit the nail on the head! I'm about to just say screw it.

RPU3,

Wow! I can understand after reading your long post as to why you ask yourself the question of swining... However, I can tell you that I go through similar questions myself at times and I think what you are feeling is normal for a newbie. MrVan and I have ran into problems with other couples or singles and I will get so upset that I just blow up and say "then why are we bothering? let's just stop now and be done." But I enjoy the lifestyle too much to give up because of another couple or single.

I am alot like you in the way that I am (was) very reserved and even if a guy finds me attractive and has an interest, I always feel like he isn't and MrVan will say that if he wasn't interested he wouldn't have said "yes" to meeting up and playing. I guess for me it is a low self esteem problem that I have and I am starting to work on that and not worry about it so much and just have fun.

But just because you do not play with toys or do something kinky does not mean that the sex won't be just as hot. I get total enjoyment out of an MFM with just having sex with 2 guys and having them please me till I cannot take it anymore (which is a very long time) but we do not use toys, or play any type of game or anything like that. When we meet up we get together for dinner, drinks, play pool or something fun and then we work our way up to the play time.

Yes as a newbie there are alot of questions of how do you do this, or that and then you look on the board and wonder..."OMG where do I begin, there is so much out there on this topic." but I think that it is best for you to take it at the level your comfortable with and have fun the way YOU want to have fun. If you having an MFM, the men are there for YOU and are there to please YOU so they could care less about what they want as they know you are all that matters.

But let me ask you....If you like being in the lifestyle and do not want to get out of it because of the fun and enjoyment you get, what is it that you like about the lifestyle? Are you looking for ways to change yourself or are you looking for ways to make the lifestyle easier? Cause I am sure we all can agree that the lifestyle is not easy and although some times seem to go along better than others we all at one point hit that hump where we just want to scream.

I am glad that you were able to come to us and vent as it sounded like you needed that.

Good luck and keep us posted!

MrsVan

[rpu3]

Hi Mrs. Van and HaveFun...

I have said much already - can one tell that I sure didn't feel like working today?!?

What do I get out of it? When it works, it's all about the sex, first and foremost. There is also a sense of community in some aspects (the clubs, this board) that is appealing. So, the sex is fun, and this paticular corner of the swing universe is quite nice and polite.

But, that being said - this is a whole lotta work. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. But that doesn't mean that all of a sudden you think to yourself "wow, this is a LOT OF WORK!" And this is somewhat of a shock, for some reason. Upon a bit of reflection, I think I just wanted to say that I was surprised to realize this, and wanted to hear others say that sure, it gets easier over time, and that no one said it would be all fun and games all the time, that it's okay to be new and overwhelmed at times by the freakin' details!


And I've never been adverse to a clue by four when appropriate, either!

[Mrs.PaganLovers]

First of all I have met both you and Mrs. Van, you are both beautiful women!
Even though my first experience was about 10 years ago and only a couple of times since, they just happened. I have just gotten into the swing thing, and us coming to Columbus, was a bit nerve wracking.
It sounds like you are over analyzing. Something I call mental masterbation, when the head won't shut up and you dig into every little detail and analize it to death.
The first thing I do, is go out with absolutely no expectations, if we meet people and get to know them that is great, we go party together and if things warm up, even greater.
I am an outgoing person so I don't worry about it too much, ya either like me or you don't (I think that comes with age). I know that being shy, it's really hard, and having a shy daughter, I understand the labels that get put on you, stuck up, bitch, etc.
My advise is to just relax, don't sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff, put it into perspective......in a hundred years is any of this going to matter, is this a matter of life and death....no it isn't ....Have fun!!!! Picture everyone in the clown costume, or their underwear (ok maybe that one will just make you hot). The point is, put in in perspective. If you enjoy what you are doing, keep doing it. You don't have to be kinky to be in this lifestyle, just like sex.
And you are a very beautiful women.

Blessings
Mrs. PL

[Dynamar]

Somebody laughed at me once on another board for referring to swinging as my hobby. But, I do think the analogy fits. For me, swinging is an activity that I pursue because I enjoy it... just the same as I might (and have in the past) enjoyed collecting baskets, gardening, throwing dinner parties, scrapbooking, well... you get the idea.

Think about any other hobby or interest you have or have had... does it cost you money? does getting better at it require research and/or reading? are there times when you're frustrated by it? does it fill your time, whether actively participating in it or just thinking about it? But bottom line... do you enjoy it? do you gain something from it? is it fun?

Whatever the hobby... if it's for you, the answer to most (if not all) of the questions will be 'yes'.

[TNT]

rpu3,

Your story is not an unusual one. I believe that a lot of newbies go though what you find yourself going through. They are so afraid of making a mistake, they forget to just relax and have fun. Newbies do tend to over analyze things...way too much, at times.

This board is a great place for newbies to come to for a "general" understanding of what swinging is about. The thing that most people forget is that they should read the experiences of others and how they have handled things, then apply that in a way that works for them. Basically using what you read here as "guidelines", more than "well, this is the way it's suppose to be done". No two, three, four or more people will do things the same way.

I don't believe there is any one "true" etiquette that can be applied when it comes to swinging...the only thing that should be of concern is if you, your spouse and those you choose to play with are all in agreement on what is happening.

One of the things that I have found through the years is that no one likes making a decision when it comes to...where to meet, what time, play at home or hotel, dinner before play, dancing before play, etc... so...as time has passed, we have found that we ourselves have established certain places we like meeting at, places we like eating at, and since we don't play at home, hotels that we know have reasonable rates and/or we have points at; to use as suggestions when we are asked...Where do you want to meet and what time.

Even the "rules of engagement", aka "what do we do once we get to the room" , is really rather simple...it's just sex, you've just added one or more people so just remember to play nice and things will be fine.

All the obstacles you mentioned are not insurmountable..the thing is you decide how hard you want to make them or how easy.

Always remember, swinging is suppose to be fun, not work and before you know it, you won't be a newbie any more.


Teresa

[ohash01]

Trust me sweetie...been there, done that, doing it again. J. and I are both still kinda "newbies". I have social issues...he does NOT. I am comfortable with people I meet doing other stuff (working, school, adult classes), but I just can't walk up to people and be like "hi!". My goodbyes are always awkward too.

And now - on that note - I can give you a tip or two about flirting and catching interest and being SURE you've got it, so you don't have to question it later. But I'm not gonna lie to you...for a while, it's HARD. Until you have 5, 10, or more people tell you "You're sexy...you're fun"...you're going to wonder if you're doing it right.

And as for the "ettiquette" and "rules"...go with what works for you 2. Be sure to tell the other participants about it. But don't re-arrange what works for you two for outside participants.

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by rpu3

As a bit of background: Unknown entities tend to view me as “quiet”, “reserved”, “uptight”, “icy”, “focused” and finally, my personal favorite, “bitch” (hey, if that label keeps a jerk out of my cube, then I like it). Those who bother to get to know me, or whom I’ve decided to get to know find that there’s a lot of other labels that fit better.

I can think of many that would fit much better. Sexy, fun and funny come to mind right away.

Originally Posted by rpu3

Then we get to figure out the “rules of engagement”. Okay, that part isn’t so bad, but then I’m worrying that I’ve said something wrong in an email or chat, or that I’ve probably made us look boring because I don’t think we are the kinkiest people on earth – I/we like sex. I don’t need a scenario where one is dressed like Krusty the Clown who ties me up in the back of a VW Bug. At least I/we don’t right now.

Nothing wrong with just plain sex! Matter of fact, I personally really like just plain hot sex!

Originally Posted by rpu3

I’m sure there’s a person or two out there that may very well jump on me...

Was this an invitation? Are you looking for volunteer?

Honestly...don't think so much...just relax and let the guys take care of it. facelick

-Van

Originally Posted by ohash01

And now - on that note - I can give you a tip or two about flirting and catching interest and being SURE you've got it, so you don't have to question it later. But I'm not gonna lie to you...for a while, it's HARD. Until you have 5, 10, or more people tell you "You're sexy...you're fun"...you're going to wonder if you're doing it right.

Ohhasho1,

This is so true! I was not a flirtatious person and really struggled at first in the lifestyle until more an more people told me that I was "sexy,fun and a flirt" and then one day I figured all of these people could not be lying to me so it has to be true...That was a huge compliment to me and boosted my self esteem so much that now I am such a huge flirt and can actually have fun in the lifestyle.

So RPU3, take that advise and have fun. Don't stress about the arrangements and just have fun..Even if you plan, things never go as you had planned them.

And if you need a guy for a MFM, I am willing to share MrVan

MrsVan

[rpu3]

So, if I am reading this correctly, you guys are saying don't think so much?

Good idea (don't think so much) and hard to do - I'm paid to read/think/analyze for a living, and there are times I wish I had an on/off switch. Or a People Magazine.

Thanks to all for the thoughts/ideas/advice.

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by Dynamar

Think about any other hobby or interest you have or have had... does it cost you money? does getting better at it require research and/or reading? are there times when you're frustrated by it? does it fill your time, whether actively participating in it or just thinking about it? But bottom line... do you enjoy it? do you gain something from it? is it fun?

Whatever the hobby... if it's for you, the answer to most (if not all) of the questions will be 'yes'.

I liked the hobby analogy - figure skating is my hobby. It is expensive, frustrating, painful, demoralizing, takes too much time, and I think about it too much (I'm always choreographing practices in my head), but I love it. And it too seems to work better when I don't think so much.

[Tybee Swing]

Hi rpu3, I think you are totally normal to think and wonder about all of these things the way you do. I sure did! In some areas, I still do. Everybody is so different in how they "do" this swinging thing, that it's like learning all over again with each new playmate.

Originally Posted by rpu3

So, I’ve had to work very hard to try to overcome my normal tendencies in order to participate equally in our swinging. I never seem to catch the social clue-by-fours – we’ll go home from any number of events and I tell Mark that it didn’t seem like XYZ was interested in me and he’ll look at me like I’m crazy and start laughing and tell me “HOW COULD YOU MISS THE INTEREST????!!!??? And while we are on the subject, I can’t believe that you just said “see you around sometime” instead of saying something about perhaps getting together – that was the most horrific goodbye I’ve ever witnessed!!!???!!!” And heaven forbid if it’s in an email – I’ll still show it to Mark and say, “do you think he’s interested?” Then Mark ends up with a concussion from the repeated banging his head against the wall.

This is so common for so many people. You and Mark sound like so many couples (us, too), where one is more extroverted and the other more introverted. But, flirting, picking up cues, conversation, letting people know you want to see them again, etc...these are all social skills, not necessarily inborn traits. The good news is that skills can be acquired! Just keep on practicing, you'll only improve over time. You've already identified areas you want to change, which is the first step to doing them better next time. You're funny and bright...you're gonna be okay!

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

Was this an invitation? Are you looking for volunteer?

Always looking for volunteers, especially when they are known as "Stiffler"!