Promiscuity-positive feminism?

[TeamSoBe]

I was reading the Wikipedia article on sexually liberal feminism just now and I have to wonder how swinging women fit into that mix. The article covers sex-positive feminist positions on pornography, prostitution, BDSM, sexual orientation, and gender identity. The article does NOT mention promiscuity.

Many swinging women (and men) consider themselves sex-positive feminists, with no conflict between their promiscuity and feminism. Many swinging women find it sexually liberating to have the option of taking multiple male and female partners.

If anybody happens to know of any good authors or other references that I could use to back up the previous paragraph then I would love to hack a new paragraph into that article about it.

[Chicup]

Beyond that it involves sex and women I don't see a big connection with swinging.

The women I know may view it a bit as a personal liberation from traditional thinking, there isn't really a feminist aspect.

[TeamSoBe]

Fair enough.

In my mother's day, when she would drag my clueless five-year-old ass and my schnauzer out to ERA marches in cute little slogan T-shirts, proper feminists distanced themselves from all non-mainstream sexuality. All sexuality in general actually. Lesbians fought for recognition and acceptance, and by the 1980's a lesbian could openly refer to herself as a feminist and show up at feminist events or publish feminist literature without too many issues. But she still could barely talk about sex itself and she certainly couldn't be proud of having multiple partners. And a straight woman with multiple partners was still considered very counter to the movement. That was 20 years ago.

As a male, I'm not going to push it much. The article is on feminism after all. But IMO the article is out of date. The article properly reflects the fight for acceptance that lesbians went through but it stops there.

Since the 1980's, where "sex-positive feminism" apparently ceased forward progress, we've seen Demi chase Ashton. We've seen Samantha on Sex & The City chase everybody. Nelly Furtado sings about being a promiscuous girl. There are whole swing event series devoted to giving women control of the seduction. Am I just imagining that women have new options to be promiscuous feminists?

[Amanda69]

First off despite the attempts of co-workers and teachers to convert me I am NOT and will never be a feminist. That is a whole long tirade we won't go into here. Though curious if many other females in the lifestyle consider themselves feminist?

Promiscuity is the practice of making relatively unselective, casual and indiscriminate choices.

The term is most commonly applied to sexual behavior, where it refers to sex that is not in the framework of a steady sexual relationship, or occurs in multiple, simultaneous sexual relationships. People who are called "promiscuous", within the scope of this usage, may actually be quite selective in their choice of sexual partners. Nonetheless, because of the popularity of this usage, the remainder of this article discusses sexual promiscuity.

A common criticism of sexual promiscuity is the potential to run a higher risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) including HIV which may eventually lead to AIDS. Promiscuous behaviour requires strict application of safer sex measures, in order to reduce this risk. However, consecutive monogamous sexual relationships (serial monogamy) without safer sex measures can pose a similar risk.

In some cases, excessively promiscuous behaviour is caused by definite pathology such as manic episodes of bipolar disorder, some forms of brain tumors, or alcohol and substance abuse.

I don't know I still don't like the word, for me it seems to have negative conotations and is more often used for women than men. In other words a polite way of calling women a "slut".

[Chicup]

My guess is sex positive feminism is a result of a backlash to the feminism of the 60's and 70's which contained not only lesbians but many unattractive women looking for a cause to blame for their lack of a sex life. Its a harsh statement but I think thats where a lot of the anti-sex anti-male feelings from early feminism originates, and there were not many attractive or average women in that group.

Sex positive is just saying its ok to like sex, enjoy men, and still be a feminist.

[2jersey]

We own one of the books referenced in your Wikipedia article - The Ethical Slut http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethical_Slut

We came of age after the feminist movement (we think), and we're not really sure if it is still alive (or what it is/was).... But The Ethical Slut certainly expounds on some rebellious concepts related to the ideals of female liberation. Definitely worth a read...

Quotes from the book: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Ethical_Slut

[TeamSoBe]

Originally Posted by Amanda69

I don't know I still don't like the word, for me it seems to have negative conotations and is more often used for women than men. In other words a polite way of calling women a "slut".

You say that like it's a bad thing?

Is there a term for taking multiple sexual partners that isn't negative? If not then it's the concept itself that's perceived as negative, which is exactly what I'm talking about. The notion that a promiscuous woman is harming all women in general with her behavior.

Do all people who see themselves as feminists still think that, or is that concept eroding? That's what I'm asking. I believe that there is now a niche within feminism that can accept swinging women as empowered, rather than as detrimental to women in general. But hey I could be wrong.

[TeamSoBe]

Google is the coolest. This blog post from a Cornell University feminist sex columnist covers exactly what I'm talking about. She even got slammed in a Washington Times article for her "slutty feminism".

My favorite quote:

Originally Posted by Monique E Stewart

Female college students of the slut feminism camp are finally equal to the men. It's a shame, though, that they view equality as an equal number of notches on their belts.

"The slut feminism camp", I love that...

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by TeamSoBe

Google is the coolest. This blog post from a Cornell University feminist sex columnist covers exactly what I'm talking about. She even got slammed in a Washington Times article for her "slutty feminism".

My favorite quote:

"The slut feminism camp", I love that...

In a movement dominated by lesbians and ugly women, such a reaction is expected.

[TeamSoBe]

Originally Posted by Chicup

In a movement dominated by lesbians and ugly women, such a reaction is expected.

Well that was awfully prejudicial? Lesbians actually had to fight for acceptance in feminist circles until only recently, and calling the rest of them ugly is just silly. It seems like a surprising number of people here have the same disdain for the word "feminist" that plenty of Americans have for the word "swinger". "Ewwww, gross..." Just when you think you've found a bunch of open-minded people...

The reasons for mainstream feminism traditionally downplaying sexuality are obvious enough. Even here in a swingers' forum we have women who have a gut negative reaction to the words "promiscuous" and "slut", so in order to maintain credibility the feminist movement had to avoid giving opponents ammunition. Susan B Anthony couldn't have run around flirting with men and still accomplished what she did since she already bore the brunt of so much opposition.

But haven't things changed at all? In a world where we have Nerve Magazine and where a woman runs Playboy, can't a woman still be a feminist even if she does have fake tits and hair extensions?

My wife, in a professional setting, can be flirtatious and she can discuss sex openly when the men do. Not over the top, but she has a sex drive and she doesn't feel obligated to hide it any more than her male golfing partners do. My mother did not have that option in her day. I like to think that my mother and the feminists of the 1970's paved the way toward my wife's ability to be both a feminist and a slut simultaneously.

[Chicup]

Actually no, I didn't pre judge them, I judged them on their merits.

The ugly ones I'm speaking of are the straight man haters of the feminist movement of the 60's and 70's. Misery loves company after all.

[TeamSoBe]

Okay but again that's silly because it was so far in the past. I'm talking about feminists from 2006, not from ancient history. The 60's were forty years ago at this point. Generations X and Y have both left their mark on feminism.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by TeamSoBe

Okay but again that's silly because it was so far in the past. I'm talking about feminists from 2006, not from ancient history. The 60's were forty years ago at this point. Generations X and Y have both left their mark on feminism.

Thats like saying you can only look at American history from the 80's on and think you understand the big picture. The taint of the radical feminists didn't just disapear with a new generation. Those 'modern' feminists had to rebel in their own way from them and that school of thought, its not like all the 60's and 70's feminists are dead or that they still don't have influence.

[TeamSoBe]

Originally Posted by Chicup

The taint of the radical feminists didn't just disapear with a new generation. Those 'modern' feminists had to rebel in their own way from them and that school of thought, its not like all the 60's and 70's feminists are dead or that they still don't have influence.

Right, to me it seems like 'slut feminists' are the modern version of the 1970's lesbian feminists. The 'feminist sex wars' raged for decades because of the fear of the Dworkinites about being associated with lesbians. The same sort of conservative mindset is represented in that Washington Times article, but there are endless reams of blog posts in Google about "slut feminism" from younger women.

Regardless of the fascinating revulsion around here toward feminism, I did manage to find enough references to 'slut feminism' to update the article on sex-positive feminism.

[Concupiscence]

In some ways I have to agree with Chicup. I see so many blogs, organizations, meetings, flyers, ad nauseum that have the entire purpose of denigrating anyone who doesn't tow their particular brand of feminism that I do everything that I can to dissociate myself from that word. Pretty much my entire life has been spent doing things that are male-dominated activities or holding views that are supposedly contrary to the so-called feminist ideal. Even so, it took me most of my life to openly advocated a sex-positive attitude despite privately held beliefs and fantasies. Hell, I was reading Heinlein when I was in 8th grade and yet I was outwardly very prudish about my attitudes towards sex and how women should conduct themselves.

I do agree that the women who fought for suffrage and equal rights were brave pioneers and deserve to be honored. It is those who took advantage of the message for their own personal political goals that I despise. They have made it a crime to be anything outside of their own narrow definition of what a "liberated woman" is supposed to be. Part of my gripe is that I am just fed up with labels and attempting to corral people into little doubleplus good groupthink check-the-block conformers.

"Hey! I'm sex-positive therefore I must adhere to and only espouse , oh yeah and all conservatives are homophobic corporate Christian-military-industrial complex shills who wack off secretly to underage ladyboy panty sniffer magazines while snorting oxycotin through the wing bones of the endangered American Condor."

I am only exaggerating a little.