Vanilla Perceptions regarding who swings

[Spoomonkey]

I have to tell this part - we told a vanilla single female friend from work about our "dirty little secret". We trust her and felt comfortable with it. There wasn't a "motive" to do it - just being honest... Which felt wonderful!

She was surprised and told us that she had actually thought there was another couple that were swingers... But not us...

I had to laugh...

First of all - I know that they are not. I had a long talk with the husband one night about fantasies. I didn't tell him that I was getting the chance to live mine out, but he told me a few of his. He did tell me that he thought of open stuff (mostly involving watching his wife with another woman) but that he knew she wouldn't go for it...

Mrs Spoomonkey is well aware that this couple is seriously struggling in the area of their sex life.

Basically, these guys are hardly having sex with each other - much less able to swing... The communication, trust, passion, etc. just isn't there...

But they are social, flirty, party folks who I guess we'd have wondered about ourselves if we weren't in the lifestyle... But now we can see the obvious - they are a couple who is really struggling just to stay together...

We - by contrast - are the "cute couple" that eats lunch together, holds hands to and from the car, and sends flirty e-mails back and forth all day. And - put us with a group of our kindred spirits (i.e. a Meet Up with our fellow board folks) and our "true colors" are pretty obvious. But - still - people on the outside looking in don't see it...

That's great, really. "How could they be swingers? They seem so happy." Let them have their assumptions...

I just thought this was very interesting - so I thought I'd share.

Spoomonkey

We had a lady friend of our at Mrs Naughties birthday party last night and she is having trouble with her marriage.

She asked me how Mrs Naughty and I are so happy after so many years together,

I told her we are in love with each other and we are honest enough with one another to let each other have fun.

She said "What do you mean have fun?" (As we were watching Mrs naughty flirting in the middle of a group of about 10 guys facelick .

I told her that I like seeing Mrs naughty have a good time and the more "Fun" she has, the more fun I have facelick .

She then tells me that her husband is a jealous prick and would never go for what Mrs naughty was doing.

She tells me that she is envious of what we have and hoped one day she would find the same....

I told her I hope she does too.

[newgentry]

You know, Spoo, its funny how different groups of people can perceive the same folks in different ways. Just like you and Mrs. Spoo, the missus and I are also known as the cute, hand-holding, kissy face couple. But through the grapevine we've found out that a lot of the vanilla folks have come to "suspect" that there's something hidden beneath our veneer. The reason? Because we don't share the sometimes over the top jealousies that are so prevalent amongst our vanilla world friends. If we're at a vanilla gathering we'll be the ones innocently flirting with folks or dragging someone else's spouse out on the dance floor. You should see some of the looks I got when, at a Christmas party, I cornered a friends wife under the mistletoe. Mind you, we don't do this constantly, but the mere fact that we would "dare" to do something like that has us "branded" in a lot of people's minds. To us its just totally innocent fun - to others we're committing a cardinal sin. Candidly, it drives us crazy sometimes.

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty

She then tells me that her husband is a jealous prick and would never go for what Mrs naughty was doing.

Originally Posted by newgentry

Because we don't share the sometimes over the top jealousies that are so prevalent amongst our vanilla world friends

Weird how it seems that in the vanilla world they seem to think being jealous of each other is love. That is so sad. We see people get married at work and the women will make comments like "if he ever looks at another women" Their married not dead! :rollseyes Oh, and then these same women will gossip around the office about the new 'hot' guy. It makes me sick sometimes to see this and listen to everyone bash their husbands.

That is the very reason that most of our friends are lifestyle friends and we don't hang out with work people.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Mrs Spoomonkey

Weird how it seems that in the vanilla world they seem to think being jealous of each other is love. That is so sad. We see people get married at work and the women will make comments like "if he ever looks at another women" Their married not dead! :rollseyes Oh, and then these same women will gossip around the office about the new 'hot' guy. It makes me sick sometimes to see this and listen to everyone bash their husbands.

That is the very reason that most of our friends are lifestyle friends and we don't hang out with work people.

Mrs Spoomonkey

It's true. It makes the vanilla world a little more lonely sometimes. It's difficult to chime in on a girls night out when they all start carrying on about who's jealous of whom...at least not without giving us away. Frankly, I'd LOVE the opportunity to just 'out' us and be done with it. Let them gasp. Let their jaws drop. Let their delicate sensibilities be offended. Whatever. Unfortunately, as a parent and a working mom, I don't have the luxury of this kind of satisfaction. I dislike needing to keep things under cover. After thinking about it, I've decided that no, I don't get off on the naughty secrecy aspect. I'd rather just be naughty way out in the open. Our take on marriage doesn't meld well with most vanilla's points of view.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by intuition897

It's true. It makes the vanilla world a little more lonely sometimes. It's difficult to chime in on a girls night out when they all start carrying on about who's jealous of whom...at least not without giving us away. Frankly, I'd LOVE the opportunity to just 'out' us and be done with it. Let them gasp. Let their jaws drop. Let their delicate sensibilities be offended. Whatever. Unfortunately, as a parent and a working mom, I don't have the luxury of this kind of satisfaction. I dislike needing to keep things under cover. After thinking about it, I've decided that no, I don't get off on the naughty secrecy aspect. I'd rather just be naughty way out in the open. Our take on marriage doesn't meld well with most vanilla's points of view.

I LOVE this post! It is exactly where we are right now, I think. We would love to just look at the folks we work with and say "yeah, that old rumor? It's true..." But - you just can't.

But the vanilla girl that we told this week said something that I'll never forget. She said, "you guys are the only couple I know that gets along as well as you do."

A lot of that has to do with our openness with each other and the honesty and intimacy that swinging demands. We know other couples like us - but they are all here. And like you said, that can make life a little lonely sometimes.

Spoomonkey

[TNT]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

We would love to just look at the folks we work with and say "yeah, that old rumor? It's true..." But - you just can't.

We understand that feeling completely. There seems to be times where you just want to stop having to watch everything you say and do and just scream to the world "This is who we are, like it or leave it. "

We have found that we both are becoming more vocal about expressing our views on certain things and really not caring what others think about us. We get tired of having to keep our mouths shut when certain controversial subjects are brought up, especially with vanilla people.

Just this past Friday Ted voiced a view of his at work. Memorial Day weekend is a big gay weekend here on the beach, three days of parting with thousands of gays and lesibans coming in for the weekend. The people that Ted works with were offended that they were coming to their town. He made the comment that they weren't hurting anyone and that everyone has the right to live their life as they see fit. Not a very popular view in this area, but he felt good about voicing his opinion on the subject.

Needless to say, I was proud of him . We have come to the realization that others don't think that they might be offending us with their opinions, why should we think about offending them with ours?


Teresa

[WildMiCouple]

Originally Posted by Spoomonkey

But the vanilla girl that we told this week said something that I'll never forget. She said, "you guys are the only couple I know that gets along as well as you do."
Spoomonkey

I brought that up to Tammy recently about how many people have told us "you two have a great relationship" or "you guys make a great couple" Must be a vibe we put out. To be honest.....we heard it before venturing into the lifestyle.....but it seems we hear it more now, or at least notice it more

When we're at our favorite cigar lounge, Tammy always seems to be flirting with someone. They all know us as the wild couple....and it's an upscale, rather conservative place :rollseyes She has flashed a few her nipple charm.....a tiny gold nude lady with a diamond belly button Only one of them has asked us if we were swingers .....it was after getting back from Hedo and letting them know we partied nekkid for a week Kinda took Tammy by surprise as it was a guy friend that asked her On the ride home, she was rather bummed she had to tell him no, because of the stigma that we still feel is associated with swinging.

Brett (and Tammy)

[wiscpl]

Very good topic! We often feel very much the same when we see couples together. So many non-lifestyle couples we know get jealous over the wrong thing to easily. Heck, if only they really knew what we did when we get out! We often call each other to tell the other about the hot woman we saw with almost nothing on or a fantasy we have about the other with so and so. (and so and so and so ) Many relationships would not withstand the strain this would place on them. We are fortunate for what we have together, the love, trust and devotion to each other is one that only those like us can understand.

We have told a few vanilla friends about us. This usually is followed by alot of Q&A and "I could never do something like that". Deep in our minds we know they could but are afraid of what people might think.

[Mrs Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by TNT

Just this past Friday Ted voiced a view of his at work. Memorial Day weekend is a big gay weekend here on the beach, three days of parting with thousands of gays and lesibans coming in for the weekend. The people that Ted works with were offended that they were coming to their town. He made the comment that they weren't hurting anyone and that everyone has the right to live their life as they see fit. Not a very popular view in this area, but he felt good about voicing his opinion on the subject.

Needless to say, I was proud of him . We have come to the realization that others don't think that they might be offending us with their opinions, why should we think about offending them with ours?
Teresa

Yeah Ted!!! We are friends with a girl at work who is a lesbian and dispite the fact that where we work really pushes diversity and inclusion she has suffered the brunt of some intolerant people.

We're with you though, wish we could just be who we really are and tell people to take it or leave it but unforturnately work and family keeps us quiet. We can only be our true selves with each other and our lifestyle friends.

Mrs Spoomonkey

[HotMoCpl]

Hey, Spoomonnkey. You such an encouragment to me. The things you describe about you and the Mrs. are the way my wife and I are. Hopefully....we're right on track. But hey, if we don't get there; nothing lost. We're still in love.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by HotMoCpl

But hey, if we don't get there; nothing lost. We're still in love.

As long as you have that - you guys will be just fine!

That's what matters before, during and after the lifestyle anyway.



Spoomonkey

[curious1103]

Just recently my wife and I were at a wedding reception and a lot of our friends noticed us slow dancing and holding hands and making kissy faces at each other, telling us how cute we looked together, etc. You'd think we were the ones that just got married! A couple of our friends even told us flat out they were jealous of what we have and how they wished they had that with their spouses, especially after being married all these years.

My wife looked particularly hot that evening, and one of my male co-workers confided in me saying he thought she looked hot. I grinned to myself and told him "I think so, too." Afterwards I told her what he said and my wife just gave me a wicked smile and said something like "that was nice of him." He's one of those that, if the topic ever came up, we wouldn't mind confiding in saying we're in the lifestyle - but won't go out of our way to volunteer any information. We've known him and his wife for many years and we think they'd make a fun couple to "hang out with" outside of the norm. I know he would, and he's rather quiet and discreet, but his wife is somewhat conservative, so I wouldn't know how she would feel. That's too bad, too, because my wife thinks he'd make a good sex-toy for her. Unfortunately, as long as his wife feels the way she does about things we're not pushing the issue.

I think he suspects about us, though. One day while chewing the fat, the topic turned to our spouses and "sharing." He asked me what I thought of swinging and sharing in general. Without revealing anything I said something like "I'm not opposed to the idea. My wife and I like to keep an open mind about such topics." Who knows? Maybe some good might come out of this.

[WesternSwing]

Great post, Spoo. We are much the same way. We are always holding hands, IM'ing each other all day long. Sending naughty text messages back and forth between our phones (I love to do that when Mrs. WS is at Pampered Chef party or some other vanilla activity ). When we are together we are alway touching in one way or another. One of my wife's friends emailed her the other day for relationship advice because "you are the happiest couple I know". That was such a compliment!

A couple of weeks ago a friend's girlfriend asked me about it and how and why we can do it. She was generally interested and very open-minded. It may not be for her (or it may be ) but she seemed to understand.

I think we are happy because we have been able to put aside allot of the petty jealousies and insecurities, communicate honestly, and really concentrate and appreciate the aspects of our relationship that brought us together in the first place.

It's hard to explain to a "vanilla", but the Buddhist teacher Thich Nhat Hanh says it best in his four aspects of true love. The fourth is:

"Freedom. In true love, you attain freedom. When you love, you bring freedom to the person you love. If the opposite is true, it is not true love. You must love in such a way that the person you love feels free, not only outside but also inside. “Dear one, do you have enough space in your heart and all around you?” This is an intelligent question for testing whether your love is something real."

I don't think most "vanillas" understand that it is because we are so much in love and trust in one another enough to let each other be who we are, and not not try to control them to satisfy our own fears. It is because of this that we can swing. Too many people confuse possession of someone else with love.

Now swinging won't do what it has done for us for everyone, but it does work for us. It has been very liberating and allowed us to love each other for who we are, not for who we want each other to be. I think that is a hard concept for most to grasp since for so long society has showed us a different picture of the perfect couple.

Mr. WS

[jennandjamesinm]

Originally Posted by WesternSwing

It's hard to explain to a "vanilla", but the Buddhist teacher Thich Nhat Hanh says it best in his four aspects of true love. The fourth is:

"Freedom. In true love, you attain freedom. When you love, you bring freedom to the person you love. If the opposite is true, it is not true love. You must love in such a way that the person you love feels free, not only outside but also inside. “Dear one, do you have enough space in your heart and all around you?” This is an intelligent question for testing whether your love is something real."

WOW - how true......and very beautiful.....Thanks WS for sharing that....

Jenn