How much info do you want before giving phone number

[EternallySingle]

Call me 'Little Too Cautious', but a couple from Germany wrote me on another site and asked for my phone number, saying they were going to be in the States later this year (didn't say when) and wanted to meet with me. Cool, except they told me nothing about themselves, skirted around my request for a picture first (and I wrote that email in German), and didn't answer my fourth email asking for a little more info (like what they like to eat, what kind of music they like, etc.) when I said I didn't feel comfortable giving my phone number to someone so soon.

Granted, being a single male, I should have a little more courage and not be so concerned about giving my personal info to an axe murderer or pic collector, but from working in telecommunications and information technology most of my life, I know how powerful those 10 digits are. I just want to know if I was a little too cautious by not giving them my phone number and how much information do people want from a person/couple/group they intend to meet before they reveal such information?

[OhioCouple]

I don't think that is being overly cautious at all. Youv'e built no rapport with this couple, general communication has not been established...and how do you REALLY know that these people are from Germany or they aren't out to scam you?

This is a true story and I'll tell it best that I can remember it. I say that it is true as this discussion came up with a couple in the group of Northaven couples that we met with once, who are from the Chicago area, who knew this person well. He is very well known in swingers areas there and well liked.

On the ad site that we belong to (when it still had a forum) this sort of discussion came up. Some background first on this persons story. This person is a single black male, upper 30's, primary residence in the U.K. travels between the U.K. and Chicago often on business. He received an e-mail from a white couple that wanted to meet him on his next trip to Chicago. They never offered much info, he didn't really know much about them and it had never been a problem in the past to give out info on where he would be staying, etc. (I'm thinking he had been swinging quite some time...ten years maybe?) They offered for him to come to their home as opposed to meeting at the hotel lounge for drinks, etc. Again, he thought nothing of it.

He was told they lived in a really hard to find area, so they would meet him at some local establishment and would have him follow them from there. Again, thought nothing of it. He met them at the designated time, exchanged some brief hellos and then followed them to 'their' residence. Turns out it wasn't their residence and that wasn't all he was meeting. He was met by a group of men and upon exiting the car they beat him into unconciousness. He then spent three weeks in the hospital before being able to return to the U.K. He recalls very little about the incident other than being called a 'filthy nigger'. These people were eventually tracked down (idiots...like he wouldn't tell them that he had met them thru a swinger site that houses their personal info) arrested...and I don't know the final outcome. Who says racism isn't alive and well in America today?

The point I'm getting at here is while incidents like these are probably rare... It doesn't matter if you are single, a couple, male or female... always err on the side of caution. The web is a powerful tool which can attract the worst of the worst. Always follow your gut instinct and I'd say since you are questioning it, don't give out the info. Your safety comes first.

Now to answer your original question.

We will not give out any personal information...unless I approve it first. (I being the more cautious of the two of us.) This information is never given out until I feel comfortable with whom we have corresponded with. Having spent the majority of my adult life as a single female, it is ingrained in my head to do so.

[Alura]

We like to have a phone conversation early on. We've been pretty active in organizing Meet Ups! and feel it's our duty, as hosts, to at least know if the folks we're giving information to are what they say they are, most notably male and female.

We have a toll-free number we can give folks which is unlisted and can't be back-tracked to learn our address. In fact, the prefix could be anywhere in the United States and maybe Canada, too. We pay a small toll when a couple calls, but it is a very low price for what we learn.

Only after we're sure of who they are will we give the details they need to attend the Meet Up!

Mr. Alura

[EternallySingle]

So, err on the side of caution and get a toll free number so we talk as soon as possible. I'll have to check Verizon's prices. I think they are cheaper than the number I had with Pacific West (I think that was the company's name...been 10 years) but I'll look into it.

Seriously, getting the same response ("we don't play at home because we have children", "we'd like to meet you. Whats your phone number?") in every email is almost like saying I should be so grateful someone wrote to me first that I shouldn't use any common sense and tell them everything.

Not saying that everyone is privy to the inner workings of the telephone industry and computer networking industry like I am, but there are enough to make me uncomfortable with telling anyone more than amusing stories about my life in the first three or four emails. And if I don't get something similar in the first two or three, I break contact. I just wanted to know if I was being a little to defensive or narrow minded in the people I decided to contact. I need to feel as safe as the couples I meet. Actually, in my opinion, I need to feel safer and less apprehensive than the average couple would because I don't have anyone to reassure me and when the lights go out, I don't have anyone to watch my back.

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by EternallySingle
Seriously, getting the same response ("we don't play at home because we have children", "we'd like to meet you. Whats your phone number?") in every email is almost like saying I should be so grateful someone wrote to me first that I shouldn't use any common sense and tell them everything.

...I just wanted to know if I was being a little to defensive or narrow minded in the people I decided to contact. I need to feel as safe as the couples I meet. Actually, in my opinion, I need to feel safer and less apprehensive than the average couple would because I don't have anyone to reassure me and when the lights go out, I don't have anyone to watch my back.

The Libra side of my personality is taking over here, ES, being able to see it from both sides.

Yes, in some respects, I think you are being a tad defensive when you consider the vast numbers of comments we've seen from couples that have such a hard time separating the "real" single men from the players. If you consider the numbers of responses they get from singles, you might be able to see that they want to really verify you are "for real" rather than wasting a bunch of time on those that aren't. And the same holds true for those that contact you...they want to know. If you are all you say you are, you are definitely in the minority.

The other thing...you want to do the amusing e-mail bit for a time, and can't say that I blame you a tad...getting to know people and such...but again...are they sitting there thinking, "Another single man (or married man) taking up our time with no real intent."

Now the other side...yep and absolutely...you have every right in the world to feel safe and secure and to want to get to know people as much as anyone else does. That is likely the exception for a single man rather than the rule, and as such, people may not quite no how to respond. But with that attitude, and one that I certainly find preferable, comes the risk of people getting bored with the e-mail stuff. A decision you have to make...is it worth the risk of losing contact or them losing interest?

The thing about the cell phone...not a bad idea...you can't be traced too far with that in most cases although it isn't fail safe. Say a Verizon phone number...and I have a friend working for Verizon that has access...Bingo! Saw something similar happen right here in my neighborhood. That said...there will always be inherent risk in all we do from the moment we open our eyes each morning. We have to learn to weigh the risk.

But you know...generally (and I said "generally") you can get an idea of the type of person/people you are dealing with from the basis of their ad and the first e-mail. If that sounds good, and you respond, you might want to say in your first response exactly, in part, what you said here. Most anyone can appreciate those thoughts.

- EBF

[EternallySingle]

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
The Libra side of my personality is taking over here, ES, being able to see it from both sides.

Yes, in some respects, I think you are being a tad defensive when you consider the vast numbers of comments we've seen from couples that have such a hard time separating the "real" single men from the players. If you consider the numbers of responses they get from singles, you might be able to see that they want to really verify you are "for real" rather than wasting a bunch of time on those that aren't. And the same holds true for those that contact you...they want to know. If you are all you say you are, you are definitely in the minority.

The other thing...you want to do the amusing e-mail bit for a time, and can't say that I blame you a tad...getting to know people and such...but again...are they sitting there thinking, "Another single man (or married man) taking up our time with no real intent."

Now the other side...yep and absolutely...you have every right in the world to feel safe and secure and to want to get to know people as much as anyone else does. That is likely the exception for a single man rather than the rule, and as such, people may not quite no how to respond. But with that attitude, and one that I certainly find preferable, comes the risk of people getting bored with the e-mail stuff. A decision you have to make...is it worth the risk of losing contact or them losing interest?

The thing about the cell phone...not a bad idea...you can't be traced too far with that in most cases although it isn't fail safe. Say a Verizon phone number...and I have a friend working for Verizon that has access...Bingo! Saw something similar happen right here in my neighborhood. That said...there will always be inherent risk in all we do from the moment we open our eyes each morning. We have to learn to weigh the risk.

But you know...generally (and I said "generally") you can get an idea of the type of person/people you are dealing with from the basis of their ad and the first e-mail. If that sounds good, and you respond, you might want to say in your first response exactly, in part, what you said here. Most anyone can appreciate those thoughts.

- EBF

Point well taken. But I'm not talking about dozens of emails here. I try to lay it out in the first, whether I write someone first or they write me. And I say up front "tell me something about yourself MORE than what positions you like. I want to know something more about you before I decide to call you." I guess that is what throws them off. I find it easy to talk to strangers about nothing, but the people I'm going to have sex with can't be strangers to me anymore. Three members of the first working band I was in contracted HIV after a heroin addict convinced them she wanted a gangbang (I had the flu and went to bed after our last set). My one night stands stopped after I found out one had died and why, and so did taking people at their word when it comes to sex and relationships, especially couples.

No maybe about it, it is just me. But I feel if a couple is secure enough in their relationship to invite me to play, they should be secure enough to tell me little things about themselves. Not neccessarily how long they've been together or what their kids first words were, but things like "I work for a bank and she's a cop, so we have to be extra discreet" or "We live in another country but will be vacationing in the states from April 7 to the 21st" or even "Here's a recent picture of us. You can see why we didn't post it on the web lol." Something that makes them more than just another ad. You know, like everyone says single guys should do when writing someone.

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by EternallySingle
You know, like everyone says single guys should do when writing someone.

Sorry. Guess I have nothing else to add here. From what others have said (couples), I have difficulty understanding why people would be resistive to your request for information and communication. It seems that most couples that have written various posts on this board have indicated they would like to receive exactly what you are offering...essentially a human being behind the add.

Coming from the female perspective is quite different, I understand; however, I've never had that type of reaction from anyone that I thought was "real" in the first place. Those that were so quick to jump...well, their loss, not mine.

I think I'll do a new thread...maybe we can get other opinions.

- EBF

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by Elusive BiFem
The Libra side of my personality is taking over here...

And so is mine...

Yes, in some respects, I think you are being a tad defensive when you consider the vast numbers of comments we've seen from couples that have such a hard time separating the "real" single men from the players. If you consider the numbers of responses they get from singles, you might be able to see that they want to really verify you are "for real" rather than wasting a bunch of time on those that aren't. And the same holds true for those that contact you...they want to know.

ES stated that this couple offered nothing about themselves, skirted around his questions, but yet they want his telephone number? In my opinion, a single is entitled to as much information as another requests of them. If they are going to request a phone number, with hardly any exchange of information and what information was given is vague at best, should they be requesting a phone number at this point? What is the harm in answering questions such as "What kind of food do you like? or What kind of music do you enjoy?" Pretty typical questions in my book and certainly nothing that gives away your identity, it does however give you some sort of sense of the the likes and dislikes of the person behind the computer name, without going sexual in nature.

While we have never actively persued a relationship with a single male (or female for that matter) there was a time when we did not have singles blocked on our ad site and the players were pretty easy to see through. Usually one liners asking for more pictures or sending us pictures of their genitals. If we were in contact with singles, I for one would be pleased by a request for more general information than one asking me to send more pictures or telling me how they could please me like no one else in the world could. I feel that singles should expect the same courtesy. Players get bored with typical conversation and there are a lot of 'armchair masturbationists' out there...and they aren't just limited to singles either.

[Elusive BiFem]

Yeah...and I don't believe I said he didn't have that right to certain types of information, did I? And I also said something about the number of complaints that couples have about single men being real game-players...maybe lending some sort of credence to the the fact that people might want to check out a situation before they invest a ton of time. Apparently, and based upon what I have repeatedly read on this board from couples, they are sometimes inundated with e-mails and replies to their ads from single men. As many of you have said, and as I have read myself in many ads...NO SINGLE MEN.

So this couple wants to talk on the phone after 3 e-mails? I can understand that. And really, most people have no hesitation about giving out a cell phone number. I remember a thread on that, and if I'm not mistaken (but might be), most people didn't have a problem with that. Now asking for his number? That might be different. It might have been preferable had they said "here is our number...give us a call." However, I wonder if because they are in Germany and it would necessitate a long distance call for ES if they were not just being cognizant of that fact. I sure as hell wouldn't call Germany on my nickle for a potential play date!

I think you may have missed this point I was trying to make:

Now the other side...yep and absolutely...you have every right in the world to feel safe and secure and to want to get to know people as much as anyone else does.

He, like anyone, has that right...but he also has to recognize the risks he is taking in losing this contact by his refusal to talk to these people. Frankly, if, after 3 e-mails (and granting I don't know the content of those e-mails), if I asked someone for their number so I could call them to verify their "realness" and they refused, it would raise some red flags for me. Am I e-mailing with one of the game-players? Is this person taking me for some kind of ride here? Am I really dealing with some kid playing on the computer while Mom and Dad are at work? Am I dealing with someone incarcerated? Lots of questions I would have. Maybe not valid questions, but there nonetheless. And probably, with the numbers of single men available and responding to ads, I wouldn't waste any more of my time.

No, I never said he didn't have the right to any information that he wanted, and in fact, clearly stated he was entitled to it...while recognizing the consequences of maintaining his position. Like we have to do in all life situations.

That is likely the exception for a single man rather than the rule, and as such, people may not quite no how to respond. But with that attitude, and one that I certainly find preferable, comes the risk of people getting bored with the e-mail stuff. A decision you have to make...is it worth the risk of losing contact or them losing interest?

ES asked if he was being too defensive, and yes, I think he is...a tad. As stated. And would you think that I, as a single, or even if married 10 times over, would not expect and demand courtesy? Certainly. But I also recognize the fact that I might lose something in my quest for what I define as courtesy. Here and there.

As a Libra, I presented what I felt to be both sides of the issue. Libra...you know...balance in all things. So come on...show me your Libra side.... I know you have one!

- EBF

[Elusive BiFem]

Goofy as a fruitcake, here! The cell phone thread I mentioned was MY thread! Anyway...HERE it is, and in part, my original thoughts and response were based upon the answers in this thread. - EBF

[Chicup]

Cell phone is best I think.

I know if we were talking to a couple and they gave us a toll-free number to call I'd be pretty worried we just got scammed.

[OhioCouple]

Okay, my response is based on the original post written by ES.

...Cool, except they told me nothing about themselves, skirted around my request for a picture first (and I wrote that email in German), and didn't answer my fourth email asking for a little more info (like what they like to eat, what kind of music they like, etc.) when I said I didn't feel comfortable giving my phone number to someone so soon...

So he really knows nothing about them (other than they claim to be from Germany) and that they want his phone number after three emails in which they have told him nothing? That is a red flag to me. Only ES can tell us the content of the exchanges of emails, but I got the impression that it was one sided on his end. The picture deal...I can understand that, as I am not one that requires a picture since it tells me nothing about the person in the picture other than physical attributes. However, why did this couple skirt the issue rather than be honest and say we aren't comfortable with giving our pictures out, much in the same way that ES did about giving out his phone number? That is another red flag to me.

Now there could be another twist to this. ES, when you wrote that note to them in German, you did by chance use a Language Tools program did you? JC of Uneed_Love can attest to my embarassment of having used one in an email to him. It translated something entirely different than what I meant and was quite embarassing. Needless to say, I go straight to the source now, never a Language Tools program any more.

Now, as I said before, we have never sought out singles, but I am in agreement that I would be more inquisitve about providing proof, however, I really don't see how that could be done any differently than you do with couples, with the exception of if the relationship elevated to the point where sex were to be involved, I'd probably require that it be in their residence on a first meet. That would resolve any fears of them not being truly single to the best of my ability to determine it.

[Elusive BiFem]

And that is just another issue...the picture thing. Maybe ES inadvertently "scared" them with the initial request for a picture. Again, we don't know the content of the e-mails and what ES might consider "telling little" about themselves might not be what others consider "telling little." The other thing...and I could certainly be mistaken on this, but it seems I've read that swinging and sexuality in general is more open in some of the European countries. Maybe that accounts for part of their attitude. Maybe they simply are not used to American skepticism.

You made a point about the German translation thing, but I would assume that ES can either speak German or they speak English. Or again, maybe they don't and that is the reason they don't or can't talk on the phone. Another thing...did they send the initial e-mail to ES in German or English? And if in English, why the switch to German?

The bottom line here, IMO, is that either party could consider the other game-players. And rightfully so, given what we all know. So yes...if I'm really interested, I take that into consideration. But personally, I would not be agreeable to maintaining some kind of e-mail communication with anyone not agreeable to speaking with me on the phone. I have better things to do with my time and frankly, e-mail is great but doesn't allow for the communication that a telephone does. And especially if I was planning a trip to a foreign country and maybe my time frame was limited. Who knows? Maybe they were planning their visit for the near future and felt that they didn't have the time to engage in a bunch of chit-chat before their trip - especially given the apparent numbers of single men available that would have a different attitude.

I really don't see how that could be done any differently than you do with couples, with the exception of if the relationship elevated to the point where sex were to be involved...

Exactly...and tho' you may do it differently as an admittedly cautious person, as am I, we both know that many others take different views. As an aside in terms of the "in residence" thing...you may want to keep in mind, for future reference, that not all singles have a home or apartment conducive to inviting guests. Especially some of the single men's whose homes I've visited. You may just want to look at it from the outside. But then again, maybe you would enjoy sitting on orange crates? And bean bag chairs?

- EBF

[OhioCouple]

Originally posted by Chicup
Cell phone is best I think.

I know if we were talking to a couple and they gave us a toll-free number to call I'd be pretty worried we just got scammed.

A point well made Chicup. Back when I still worked in an office setting there were some major scams going on invovling 800 numbers. And our company was hit particularly hard by one of them. This particular scam was one in which original caller needed to verify employment and then said something to the affect to the HR person who answered, that something important had come up and asked if they could return the call to them in ten minutes and gave them an 800 to reach them by. She was to ask for 'Sherry'. The HR person returned the call to be met by a series of seemingly innocent questions that were answered by relaying her name, our company and several other questions in which the standard reply was yes. Basically what happened is that all of the standard answers were used to approve a change in long-distance services. It took months to get it straightened out because the scammer had the full name of the employee responsible, the company and the date of confirmation to switch services. The billing for long distance was astronomical. After that, all phone calls from telemarketers or those asking for return calls to 800 numbers were to be met with an "I'm sorry, I am not allowed to divulge any information", and to never answer anything with a yes.

I would be less leary of phoning a cell number than I would an 800 number, just due to that experience. But then if you are techie savvy, can't one find out personal info on cell numbers too? I thought I read somewhere that cell numbers were going to be getting their own phone book.

[NewTemptations]

Lee and I actually prefer to have met someone in person before giving out personal info like our phone number....

We are always willing to meet new people, both singles and couples. But over the years we have noticed a few things about meeting people from online....
People tend to have very different personalities online than they do in person.
People dont always look like the pic they have sent you.
Theres a good deal of people that are all into talking about stuff online, but never intend to meet you in person (we call those people trolls!)

Lee and I attend a local swing club once a week, plus there's always a variety of other swing parties we attend during each month. When someone online wants to meet us, thats fine....We give them a choice of various parties and/or what day/time we will be out at the club.

I prefer meeting people this way for several reasons... 1.We can accurately determine whether their personality/looks is something that we are attracted to 2. Can determine whether they are really into meeting new potential play partners and aren't just another troll 3. If for whatever reason we aren't attracted to each other, best case senerio we have made a new friend, worst case we are at a public party full of other swingers and can each go our seperate ways and each maybe meet someone better to our liking.

Of course, once we have met someone we like and are totally comfortable with....then we can exchange more personal info like phone numbers

Laura