Does Swinging Exist?

[MrYaWanna]

Here's a question for the board. Mrs. and I were discussing swinging and the lack of commonly, universally accepted rules or guidelines. We landed in an odd sort of spot. If there is not a single definition of swinging that a large group of people agree with, does swinging exist?

Let's look at other accepted "things". Marriage: Two People, married according to the laws of the land. Set up house together, Love, Honour and Cherish. Society understands this, accepts this therefore it exists. You can stand on the street corner and say "we're married" and people get it.

Hockey: Five skaters and one goaltender per team, three 20 minute periods. A goal is scored when the puck crosses the goal line in between the posts. Again, we can stand up in a bar and say "How's it goin eh? I play hockey!" People get it, they understand it and wonder to themselves how many of this guy's teeth are his.

Swinging: It's married couples playing with married couples only. The couple is monogamous in their emotional relationship, but not so sexually. Swinging is not a "must have" thing in their relationship, it's an extra, an enhancement they both enjoy and agree to. They always play together in the same room. It's a couple, not necessarily married, playing with the same. It's a couple, both cheating on their spouses playing with other people. It's a couple banging a single cause they like that. It's a couple hooking up with a single because they don't satisfy each other and need a 3rd to get there. It's a group of people all naked and playing in a Hot Tub, they don't even know any other person's name. It's a couple where one of the two is using the other just to have sex with as many people possible, with no regard to any one's relationship, even their own. It's a couple who play separately with each other's permission and knowledge. I'm sure there are more possible definitions, but I think I've made my point. So you stand on the rooftop and shout "I'm a Swinger". “Hmmm...what does that mean?” your neighbour says.

Because we can't agree on what swinging is, does it exist? How can something exist if it can't be defined? (Think back to Philosophy courses folks)

Maybe swinging does not exist. What do you think? Have I had too much coffee today?

[wrnakedru]

IF... a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, is that possibly also when and where the echo of a duck's quack is resounding???????

I think, therefore I am.

I do not require a recognition or definition of myself to be provided by you or any other for me to exist.

Your eyes may see me differently than mine do, your ears certainly hear me differently.

If you want any definition of who I am, what you see, and what you are hearing to have significant correlation to whom I believe myself to be, you must receive these clarifications through communication with me. Anything less/different is most likely incomplete, incorrect and/or totally erroneous.

Dictionaries exist to provide meanings for words for all to use so that communication is based on a common set of standardly held definitions.

No such reference book is universally held to be correct for all, about all, or by all. If we are to place understood value of one another, we must communicate one by one to receive this knowledge.

[I don't drink coffee.]

[yawanna]

so how does one know they are joining a bowling league and not the cast of Cats?

If swinging is totally self defined, how can it be an entity or group of so called 'like-minded people' with an arbitrary definition.

And, why do so many people want to join? What's to join?

[BiloxiCouple]

Swinging is about self defined rules.

Marriage is about self defined rules.

You understand sex. You say you want to fuck and people understand that.

Swinging is about recreational sex.

Rules:

1. No means no.

2. No pressure.

3. Courtesy.

[4funfriend]

I think that swinging is differant for everyone depending on what you want out of it. You make your own rules, other then the simple few that are known by all, or at least should be, everything else should be up to the couple or person in the lifestyle. It is a choice that we made, and we should be able to change if we want.

[sepacouple]

Is it really any different than many things we as individuals call ourselves.

We have occupation titles but that does not mean that each of us that have the same title does the same job or even has the same responsibilities.

Do those of us who call ourselves christians share the exact same beliefs of religion and what is right, wrong or acceptable according to our various religions.

Do those of us who affiliate ourselves with a political party believe in all the same things as others in that same political party.

and speaking of marraige, although it is understood what it means publicly to be husband and wife, that does not mean that every marraige is the same. There is much variation depending on upbringing, beliefs, etc., on how a husband and wife treat each other, who is in charge in the relationship, who works, who raises the kids, and so on.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

It really is a great topic though!

My husband is a musician who plays woodwinds (particularly flute). He has a friend that is also a musician that plays guitar with him. They share a common profession in that they both play music -- they differ very much though since my husband plays jazz and his friend plays rock. They don't even seem to speak the same language.

Using the analogy of Christians -- all Christians do not accept the same standards and yet they do share certain commonalities that form the base of "what it is to be Christian" -- among these is a belief that there is/was a Christ.

In that sense then -- what belief forms the universal basis of swingdom ?

Is it recreational sex? Maybe, but that aspect is shared with the group that calls themself slut .

Is it recreational sex when a partner to the act is married? Maybe, but that definition also applies to cheater, adultress, etc...

Is it "recreational sex involving one or both members of a couple (married or not) - with full consent of both members of the domestic partnership." hmmmmmm If so, then all other descriptors (such as MFM, FMF, soft-swap) become nothing more than subsets of the one "swinger" set.

so how does one know they are joining a bowling league and not the cast of Cats?

Cats! Cats! Cats! I wanna be in Cats!!!!! I wanna play Demeter! Nope! no bowling league for me -- gimme a cat costume any day....

[MrYaWanna]

Ok, so there is only one rule commonly agreed to in swinging: Everyone makes up their own rules.

In other activities we participate in there are parameters we have to follow otherwise we get fired, black balled, ostracized or asked to turn in our key. In swinging we do whatever we want to anyone anytime. You could have a rule to agree to someone else's rules just to get laid and you can still say you are a swinger.

So anyone can call themselves a swinger, as long as they have their own rules.

No wonder there is lots of confusion in this lifestyle!

[BettyAnnMBSC]

Ok, so there is only one rule commonly agreed to in swinging: Everyone makes up their own rules.

I don't think so though -- everyone doesn't make up their own rules. There are certain sets of rules that certain subsets of swingers accept as the game rules for the day.

In fact, rules has been the subject of more than a few threads in this forum. It's not the rules of the game that define what is and is not the game but instead the common principles (IMHO)

Example - football. Football remains football whether it is played by a HS, college, or pro team. And yet, there are differing rules in each -- some having greater impact than others. It's not the rules then that define football but instead it's the ball. Maybe also the uniform. Certainly the general layout of the field. These certain commonalities transcend the specific rules of each level of play and allow us to recognize that HS football is essentially the same game as pro football.

In swinging then -- we have a couple (the home team) and some other playmate(s) (the away team). The game can be played with any number of players. The objective of the game is to put a "ball in play" and the winner(s) go home happy.

The same equipment is used whether we have MFM FMF soft-swap group-play what-have-you. The primary equipment is a penis and a vagina. Secondary equipment (toys, mouth, or anus etc...) are usually specified in the pre-game discussion. Bottom line then is that "some sex act is required" in order to be determined to be "swinging"

The playing field layout and the number of players is not requisite for a game. The thing that seems to always transcend the game rules is that it involves (though not always actively) at least one couple.

Of course, as with anything, we can make this example more or less complicated. We'd still have the same outcome.

[windsor4fun2]

You could have a rule to agree to someone else's rules just to get laid and you can still say you are a swinger.

This type of rule wouldn't mean they are not swingers, it just may be they are not the type of swingers you want to play with. While I don't think I would choose to swing with someone with this philosophy, the more important question would be whether they followed the other peoples rules once agreed upon.

While most rules tend to vary with the people involved I think one rule that could be (or should be) considered universal is to "Respect other peoples rules".

Jesse

[yawanna]

BettyAnn you rock my world What a wonderful analogy!

I understand the playing field and rules of the game for that day

We are seriously just having many doubts about just what the 'game' is... football, baseball, rec sex, swinging whatever the hell THAT might be

There ARE posted rules.....but just like the 'don't spit on the rink' signs...not many seem to follow them. Like someone else posted it's a couples world and singles just visit, then we have singles saying they are swingers just like couples say they are...whether they are active or not at the moment, they are still swingers.

Then we get blasts for even challenging where a single may participate and what jersey might they wear, if any.

I'd love a Roberts Rules of Order, or at least that NASCA for example has set out that swinging is couples, singles are welcome as participants, and this is adhered to rather than some single saying the rules aren't real, or couples challenging what I've read is swinging.

Make it all up as we go along? Then it's not a community with rules or base understanding. At least religious folks have the 10 commandements

We have nada when everything is up for individual interpretation and there is no benchmark.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

We have nada when everything is up for individual interpretation and there is no benchmark.

Well, at risk of offending a few singles, it is my opinion that singles are not "swingers" but may become participants in the interpersonal relationship that is swinging.

Maybe, couples are not swingers either -- anymore than players of the game of football can be rightly called footballers

Maybe, swinging is an activity whose participants are properly called by their position. Not unlike my descriptor as "F half of bi-couple" -- which then makes me not a "swinger" but simply a participant in "swinging"

That said, a person that used to play music but has stopped is not a musician -- he used to be a musician but now is not. Maybe a person who used to be a participant in swinging but is not now ("inactive swinger") is not "a swinger" but is a "former swinger"

It remains clear though that singles can and do participate in the activity known as swinging. I know this to be true because we most often play MFM or FMF and not couple+couple. That these singles participate in the lifestyle with us makes them "swingers" doesn't it? Or do they remain "singles" who got laid? Does it really matter?

When all is said and done -- this is nothing more than a label we apply to ourselves. Then we must at some point define what the label means if we are going to effectively communicate with others.

As for the rules that are posted -- I've found that most participants do generally follow the ones they understand. "Don't cum in my hair!" isn't that hard to understand -- the penalty for breaking that rule is a suspension from the tournament. We might even have a "delay of game" while I wash my hair.

There are some rules that get ignored from time-to-time. Sometimes we agree to suspend the rules (condoms) and sometimes we end up with an unintentional infraction (getting too attached).

Some rules are very well adhered to in most circles -- ladies don't intentionally (like "forgetting" her BC) get pregnant and the guys don't intentionally (like moving the diaphragm) try to impregnate us. In most cases, the absence of "I love you" between playmates is an unspoken rule.

Some rules only apply to certain playing fields. At our field, there is a no drugs rule. We do allow drinking though (as long as you bring your own). We also have friends that don't have the no drugs prohibition at their playing field and some that don't permit drinking at all.

None of these really effects the nature of the game -- those rules which are broken generally result in some sort of sanction (unless the penalty is waived) and teams with a history or reputation of rule breaking generally don't get invited to compete again.

So, what we have here is two discussions:

1) what exactly is swinging?
2) what exactly are the codified rules?

reality is, thay are both really hard to answer....

[BettyAnnMBSC]

I'd love a Roberts Rules of Order, ...

We have a playmate friend that is really into Roberts Rules kinda stuff.... I have a great idea for some fun next playtime.

ME: "The chair will entertain a motion that we commence sex."

HE: Madame chair, I move that the sex commence...

ME: Is there a second?

HIM: I second that motion....

ME: All in favor of the commencement of sex so indicate by saying aye.

:::loud "AYE":::

ME: Then the next order of business is to determine where exactly sex should commence and in what manner. Is there any discussion? The chair recognizes....


Now, where can I get access to a board room? "Ladies and Gentlemen, the orgy will now come to order..."

hehehehehe

[yawanna]

yes BUT.. is there a quorum?

That these singles participate in the lifestyle with us makes them "swingers" doesn't it? Or do they remain "singles" who got laid? Does it really matter?

Yes.. this is my question exactly. Does it matter? it seems it doesn't so WHY should they toss out 'I'm a 'swingle' into the mix... hell...we can't even effectively define what a swinger is.. never mind the periphery of singles. And ultimately... why should we since swinging can't even be defined.

Biloxicple said there were 'rules'... I challenge those rules. Read all the horror stories of meetings gone wrong. Of people not respecting boundaries, which means No doesn't mean No. Of which there is no 'courtesy'. We're coming to see there's a lot of myth and not much truth to the stated 'rules'.

[JustAskJulie]

I think you have to look at swinging as a bigger term and then narrow it down from there. While soft-swingers are still swingers, not all swingers soft-swing and so on.

There are as many types of swinging as there are people who swing. Swinging is kind of an all-encompassing word that defines any action where a couple invites others into their playtime. Whether it be simply to have another couple in the same room with you while you have sex (with your own partner and they with theirs) or whether you swap partners.