Does Swinging Exist?

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC
I have this printed in my notebook -- I wish I knew who to attribute it to. If anyone knows please let me know too.

I really wish I had written it -- it's the kind of prose that just makes you think....
======================

I used to not think this, but there comes a time in a man's life when he appreciates the value a good slut. A slut will suck your cock right. Sucking your cock wrong means timidly putting her lips around it, making a perfunctory effort for about one minute, and then coming back up for more kissing. Wrong! A slut doesn't mention condoms, and if you have one, she doesn't put it on backwards three times before getting it right. That's what's great about sluts. I mean, they know how to fuck. A slut will lie flat on her back if that's what you want. If you want her flipped over, she flips over. No questions asked. No forms to be filled.1 If your wish is to lie there and be ridden like a broomstick, a top-of-the-line slut can gyrate at twenty-two cycles per second. That's serious fucking. A slut doesn't worry when you put your finger over her asshole. She knows you'll move on soon enough like a bee at the picnic table. A slut loves poetry and knows the power of the spoken word. Original poetry like 'fuck me harder' and 'God I want you deep inside me'. A slut will match your level of dirty talk like a lizard matches brown. A slut doesn't want to sleep over. And she doesn't kiss and tell. What is there to tell? And who would she tell it to? While you ponder these and many other questions, a good slut is already busy fucking, someone else.

===========================

If that is your definition of slut, I'm happy for you.

I'm not one - not by that definition. - EBF

[wrnakedru]

I agree with EBF - I am NOT a slut. Additionally, I believe the word carries far too negative a connotation to be gotten past. So I offer instead the following - which is a reprint of something I offered several months ago on a different thread:

The idea behind it came from my rather ambitious aspiration to get the word Cliterati into the Oxford English Dictionary as a positive alternative to the word 'slut'. Now 'slut' can be used as a compliment - 'I love that you're such a filthy slut' for example. But it's still tainted by negative connotations. Cliterati on the other hand, still has a chance to mean something positive.
Members of 'The Cliterati' are feisty women who love sex and aren't afraid to admit it.
Whatever they do, whether alone or with a partner (or several), they throw themselves into.
Cliterati girls don't worry about whether they look OK naked. They know that if they're there and naked, the person they're with is too busy thinking about the debauched activity going on to notice a bit of cellulite.
Forget faking it - Cliterati girls do the job themselves if their partner isn't pushing the right buttons - but they make sure their partner has a good view so that they can learn from the experience...
...and they know what they like because they've been masturbating regularly for years.
Cliterati girls set their own boundaries; who cares what everyone else is doing? If they want to try something new, they'll do it because they've decided it's a good idea, not because some magazine tells them to. ..
...but they are always prepared to push their own boundaries
...although they never force their ideas on anyone else, whether partner or friend. They accept that sexuality is a personal thing and just 'cos something might push their buttons, it doesn't mean that it will push anyone else's.
Cliterati girls aren't afraid of making the first move...
...but know how to flirt, for when they feel like being seduced.
The Cliterati always practice safe sex, to protect themselves and their partners. They've got enough self esteem to refuse sex if it's unsafe.
Cliterati girls know that there's a difference between fucking and making love...
...and know that both can have good points
Cliterati girls might sleep with loads of people. They might be virgins. They might be married and monogamous. They can be straight, lesbian, bi or whatever. But they know who they are, they love their sexual side and they don't give a damn who knows.
Surely a word that means all this would be a good addition to the dictionary?

[Elusive BiFem]

I can buy cliterati!!

Cliterati girls set their own boundaries; who cares what everyone else is doing? If they want to try something new, they'll do it because they've decided it's a good idea, not because some magazine tells them to. ..

- EBF

[BigSmoke]

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC
I personally like slut and intend to take that word back from those that would make it a bad word.

S.L.U.T. = Sexually Liberated Uninhibited Type

Does that help?

BigSmoke

[BettyAnnMBSC]

If that is your definition of slut, I'm happy for you

NO! that's just some guys musings on why he likes a slut that I thought I would share. It doesn't say that is my definition at all

you'll notice that my preface in that post reads:

it's the kind of prose that just makes you think....

and that was indeed the intent - to make others think -- not to redefine the word...

I wrote a definition in an earlier post up this thread -- it is the generally accepted definition of the word. In my book -- I don't get to write "my own definition" of a word -- a word only means what others think it means -- nothing more and nothing less.

We can all discuss ad nauseum what we think it should mean, what it originally meant, where it came from, when it enterred common use, ... we can discuss and rant and even argue and debate. We can attempt to change the perception of a word - we can embrace those words that we like. We can use words and we can abuse them.

What we can't do is change (based solely on our own perception or ideology) what a word means in common use to the masses at present. A prime example is the word gay -- saying "he's gay" has a common understanding; even if we meant "he's happy"...

Therefor, a slut is "A woman considered sexually promiscuous" by almost every dictionary -- and therefor, any woman "considered" sexually promiscous IS a slut whether she likes it or not. Since the definition says "a woman considered" and NOT "a woman who considers herself..." this is not a word that is to be self-ascribed but one which is assigned by others. Further, "considered" isn't the same as "is" -- therefor, you need not even be sexually active to be a "slut" -- you simply need be "considered" sexually promiscous.

Now some folks will read this and think "but I don't think that is what a slut is" and to those I say, it doesn't matter what you think -- it matters what general usage understands. Some will argue that general usage is wrong somehow -- and it may well be. But in order to communicate effectively, we MUST learn to understand general common usage -- even if that usage is not academically or philosophically correct.

Now me; I like the word. I refer to myself by it from time-to-time. I understand that some people don't like -- but that's them. Some people don't eat meat either, but I do...

So, in reply -- that single post IS NOT my definition of slut it is nothing more than some persons writing on the topic -- if we don't like what he wrote then fine -- that's the nature of art. And, prose is art.

================

as another side topic -- wouldn't Cliterati refer to those who persue a clitoris? The concept behind the efforts of Dubberley et al are commendable but, isn't the etymological formation of this word fatally flawed?

[yawanna]

I can totally buy into "I quoted others". Geez Louise I copy 2 links, paraphrase some others with a and get told I'm blasting single guys ?:slam" The written words, never mind common usage of spoken ones, can be SO confusing for some.

There are some folks we've met who think it's 'fun' to call the women sluts, whores, etc. at swinger events. Twice I've been called 'whore' and my hair pulled by a man and then a woman who were smiling and thinking they were complimenting me.

I liked being called by my name or, as my neighbour calls me, 'hey Gorgeous' My radical militant days are behind me and I stopped long ago trying to Take Back The 'B' Word, for one

(along the topic thread line.....) If a word has no recognized common usage definition, is it a word? And, is 'swinging' an accurately represented definition? I understand the thoughts of it's football if there are teams, and jerseys and a football etc. etc. It's obvious it's about football, like it's obvious swinging is about sex. But the various published definitions of the word and the activity give it a connotation different from reality in many cases. Can the word still be applied to an activity that doesn't fit the definition? Can you say it's football if they're using lacrosse sticks?

(There's that Canadian content again! )

[BettyAnnMBSC]

Can you say it's football if they're using lacrosse sticks?

I don't personally think so. So, what does the dictionary say about swinging.... at least as it applies to "our" type of swinging....

=======
11. Slang.
a) To be lively, trendy, and exciting.
b) To engage freely in promiscuous sex.
c) To exchange sex partners. Used especially of married couples.
d) To have a sexual orientation toward one or both sexes.
======

Hmmmm.. b) is also slut and d) is confusing -- "one or both" is also "either or all" -- which should be about everyone who is sexually active.

C)!!!! there though lies a definition that looks promising for exploration....

In another entry for the adjective swinging we find: Practicing exchange of partners, especially spouses, for sex.

So, we have to accept that swinging does exist -- since this particular dictionary (Dictionary.com) defines it -- AND there is a definition for it.

The two uses of especially give us an insight the word, at least a little, and indicate that it is most properly used in reference to married couples...

I consulted several other references as well -- Wordsworth Dictionary of Sex gives us "a euphemistic term for partner swapping or mate swapping..." which doesn't imply or state that the participants are married. "More widely applied to individualks or couples who engage in a wide variety of sexual practices with a wide variety of partners..." individuals could well mean singles or one member of a couple. Yet both references do imply a coupled relationship.

Oxford Etymology doesn't give us a definition that applies to our question but I did find Swingle which means to "stroke with a rod" I guess that fits... bwahahaha

From now on, I'm gonna call them swingles

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by BettyAnnMBSC
NO! that's just some guys musings on why he likes a slut that I thought I would share. It doesn't say that is my definition at all

Right...it doesn't say it is your definition. However, you did comment, "I really wish I had written it -- it's the kind of prose that just makes you think...." That...in combination with your previous post in which you described your desire to be called a slut..."sign me a slut in South Carolina - but not a slovenly slattern," and "I'm a slut and I don't care who hears it!" rather lends itself to thinking that you might find that definition to your liking. With this thought in mind...

In my book -- I don't get to write "my own definition" of a word -- a word only means what others think it means -- nothing more and nothing less.

...if you don't reinvent the word to accommodate your personal meaning, that leaves us with the commonly known definition of the word slut...a woman considered sexually promiscuous, a woman prostitute, a slovenly woman; a slattern.
Where do you go from there. You want to be called a slut, but if I think of you as such, that is exactly what I think of...the definition I am familiar with...the one I can look up and read about. (This is the same argument you made to me in your previous post).

So obviously I'm confused here. You like the word slut, you want to be referred to as a slut, and you occasionally refer to yourself as a slut. So...what is your definition of the word and why would you want to be referred to with a word with such negative connotations unless, of course, you have your own definition...and that takes us back to "I don't get to write "my own definition" of a word."

Generally I follow your post quite easily...you make a lot of sense. But you've lost me on this one. - EBF (and I still hate the word slut! )

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by yawanna

(along the topic thread line.....) If a word has no recognized common usage definition, is it a word? And, is 'swinging' an accurately represented definition?

So yawanna, where do regional differences and definitions fit into your thought process? Years ago, I used "50 cc catheter tipped" syringes in the hospital on a daily basis. I moved up North and someone asked for a "Toomey" syringe. What the hell! I had never heard of one. Come to find out it was the same 50 cc catheter tipped syringe I knew so well.

Another thought that comes to mind...definitions that go along with symbols. In the thread about smilies Julie asked about those to keep and those to get rid of. I voted to get rid of this one - ()() . To me, this means "kiss my ass" or some other very negative and inflammatory thought. Julie replied that it means "kiss my grits" or something like that. Well, Julie is from the South and here, "kiss my grits" is not really a negative statement...somehow we know what it means. But for those in the North...would this same smilie - ()() - mean "kiss my grits?" I think not. Right off the bat...grits generally are not well thought of in the North. (I don't know about Canada - educate me on that one...do I need to send you a box of grits for a taste test? )

And thinking of that very statement...if I wrote it as, "yawanna, do I need to send you a box of grits? ()() - would you interpret it differently? Or something...- EBF

[BettyAnnMBSC]

...if you don't reinvent the word to accommodate your personal meaning, that leaves us with the commonly known definition of the word slut...a woman considered sexually promiscuous, a woman prostitute, a slovenly woman; a slattern.
Where do you go from there.

When a dictionary offers several meanings for a word, it isn't saying that every meaning is applicable to every instance of use -- it is simply saying that these are the generally accepted meanings.

Now, let's look at slut

slut ( P ) Pronunciation Key (slt)
n.
1.
a. A woman considered sexually promiscuous.
b. A woman prostitute.
2. A slovenly woman; a slattern.

Understand too that most people have no idea what definition 2 means without also looking up those words. Slovenly and slattern are not words in common use in the USA. It is definition 1a that is the most common understanding of the word slut.

Since I am involved in the lifestyle (and other personal sexual choices) -- I am by most social standards considered to be sexually promiscous (at least in the sense that the word means "2: casual and unrestrained in sexual behavior; "

Since I clearly meet the accepted definition of the word found in 1. a.) cited above -- I am then "a slut" by that definition.

There is no need to consider that a negative word unless I also find the activities which assign that label negative. If I find those activities negative then I should probably not be doing them. We can say that slut is a negative word only if we accept that what it refers to is negative activity -- if you don't consider promiscuous sex, or prostitution, or even slatterns to be negative -- then why would the word be negative? Just because the user of the word intends it as such -- or does he?

How can a woman that knows she is what society calls a slut reasonably argue that she is not? Isn't "If it walks like a duck....." also "if it acts like a slut....." -- we can attempt to rationalize our behaviors all we want -- "I'm not a slut because...." and yet, if general concensus would assign that label then we are wasting breath and effort by debating.

So, maybe the problem is deeper than simply the word -- maybe it is some people's perception of the word in common use. Well, let's be realistic here; most people in our society don't agree with or approve of our lifestyle choice -- that's an absolute reality in the USA. Further, some of our activities are illegal in many states. They are going to refer to it by a label that we may well find "negative" -- that's reality.

Now, were I to go out and have sex for pay then I would be a prostitute. Also called a whore, harlot, street-walker, etc... It'd be pretty assinine on my part if I became annoyed when referred to as a "hooker" if in fact I met the commonly accepted standards of one.

Now, understand too that the prose I posted was not a definition as such -- it is some persons musings on why he likes a slut -- he never once defines exactly what a slut is, only that he likes them and why. What this one person thinks of sluts shouldn't offend anyone anymore than if he had written a commentary on why sluts are bad (an example I can find many more of).


I wish I had written it because it is very good prose! I wish I had sculpted David too -- that doesn't mean that I fancy myself a Greek man with a relatively small penis exposed in a museum. It doesn't even mean that I know how to sculpt.


I would hope that my writings on this board are clear enough that they don't require aesthetic interpretation or literary criticism. I do attempt to not use figurative language when it could confuse. So, if I have confused any in my writings in this thread - I do appologize.

Let me clarify by saying clearly here and now:

They are just words and they only mean what people understand them to mean. Any words that are misunderstood still only mean what they are understood as.

If we don't like the way a word has a negative meaning then we must attempt to change that meaning -- we can't do that by simply speaking up. We certainly can't do it by not embracing the word because it is "bad". We have to demonstrate that it's not a bad thing. We have to "walk the walk..." Only then will people remove negative meaning from sexuality. It's changing -- slowly but surely. It's amazing the changes. And it's the next generation that will let their women openly enjoy sex == then it will be "good to be a slut" just as it is "good to be a Don Juan".

Once you've known a hooker personally you learn that they're people too and "it's just a job" -- until then, people tend to ascribe certain inaccurate misperceptions. There is no difference in the swinging community and among sluts. We could ascribe the word "swinger" as negative and instead prefer [i]non-monogamous serial polysexualists" but who would we really be fooling.

sign me this time = a non-monogamous serial polysexualist

[yawanna]

That is interesting EBF........there are colloquialisms - local slang, then there are acronyms specific to an industry or field. How many of us have sat in meetings with new people or a new position and everyone seemed to be talking space talk or something

Now take the umbrella term of 'swinging' - I don't think the various interpretations of what this is has much to do with locale. I've chatted on swinger boards in CA, international, and locally, and the differences in the interpretations are the same issues: couples, singles, cheaters and the various permeations of their 'status' as a swinger.

I seriously may stop using the word 'swinger' because of the lack of definition and meaning it has to the activities or participants. It's basically a free for all with everyone making their own decisions about sex with others, for their own reasons.

I think that 'sex with others' is the only accurate definition, and when you break that down, that could be anyone who has sex. So back to what makes some sex 'swinger sex'. It's more accurate to say 'we had a threesome' than to say 'swinging'. Really.

If there is any trend arising lately in swinging, it is not the acceptance of single men being swingers as some have implied, it's that 20 & 30 somethings do a lot more of what some of us call swinging, and they don't call it swinging. They call it orgies, or one nighters, or open relationships, or threesomes.

nerve.com is probably one of the better sources of what's going on societally regarding sex and taboos.

As far as 'grits' goes

I don't think I've ever had grits, or chicken fried steak for that matter. And, just what ARE grits anyway?

[Elusive BiFem]

Originally posted by yawanna
As far as 'grits' goes

I don't think I've ever had grits, or chicken fried steak for that matter. And, just what ARE grits anyway?

Good points, my Northern friend, and I will respond later (working now), but priorities....

Geez Louise!! You do need to make a trip South...and preferably to Texas. You don't even know what grits are? And you've never had chicken fried steak? I need to find one of those sympathy e-cards and send to you! And I guess if I mentioned fried okra and turnip greens.... - EBF (and later on the rest of your post - I do have some questions and comments)

[BettyAnnMBSC]

grits are ground up hominy (kernel of corn product) and they are YUMMY!

My favorite is the stone ground yellow grits such as Blackwells. Most people though buy instant grits such as quaker. I like mine with bacon, scrambled eggs, and some country ham all mixed in. Some people like them with just butter and some like them with cream and sugar... Grits are hard to get up north but, I've been known to sell bags on eBay

Chicken (Country) Fried Steak -- isn't all that hard to have where you are though. http://southernfood.about.com/librar...8/bl80222i.htm is a good recipe and simple! It's gotta have white gravy though. Like this one... http://www.cooks.com/rec/doc/0,1615,...235199,00.html (just don't use cubed steak -- get bottom round and beat the he** out of it with a meat mallet yourself)

Fried okra!!! woohoo.... and cornbread and black eyed peas....

see y'all in 3 days -- I'm "over the hills and through the woods..."

[shoreguy]

Shame on you people for having such a fun discussion during a holiday week. No compassion for those of us who were getting ready for the family to come for dinner. Of course, in the past I've only been a lurker...

I'm a guy. I like the word slut. Sluts are fun. I think of it as a very positive word. Many people give it a very negative connotation. Not that I go around calling women sluts. I have been known to profess my admiration of sluts in general in certain company.

Words are just words. Labels can hurt, but only if you let them. Words like slut have negative connotations, but the people who think negatively about sluts would think negatively about them no matter what word you used. I.e. they'd think we are all immoral deviants. I don't value their opinion on my sex life. The connotation depends a lot on who is using a word and how they are using it. A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet and all that.