swinging is a Sexual Disorder?

[Miss_Piggy]

PARAPHILIAS -- Greek for "beyond normal"

Well, that was quick. I found the line I was looking for almost immediately.

Almost any discussion of diagnostic criteria includes the following:

"[the disorder] causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of life."

Basically, for anything to qualify as a disorder it has to interfere with your daily life.

In fact, many people may get off through some of the acts acts listed under paraphilias without having much trouble at all. But those acts don't qualify when you just do them every once in a while. They become a disorder when you are so obsessed with said act that you can't actually get off without it. (edit: of course, it's also a disorder when it causes harm to someone else) With this in mind, swingers don't usually qualify as "sick." At least not in the diagnositc sense.

As for as homosexuality once being listed in the DSM. The reasons for its removal are often debated. Some say it's more a result of social pressure than actual studies. Either way, it's widely accepted that homosexuality doesn't interfere with daily functioning and therefore really has no place being discussed in the DSM in the first place. The only mention of homosexuality you'll find now is under sexual disorders not otherwise specified (or some similar name... I don't remember perfectly all the time ). Sexual orientation of any kind is only a disorder when the subject has a significant problem with his or her sexual orientation. Then the real disorder is the person's perception (not the sexual orientation itself).

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Alura

Intuition suggested:

So what does this tell me? It tells me we need more research in this area. Frustrating.

I absolutely agree, Intuition. A lot of research needs to be done, but not just on Troilism. Foursomes, too. And more.

Maybe we should organize such research as a SwingersBoard project. We should delve into this research as deeply as possible, doing our best to develop as much data as possible. Surely sufficient research would end the frustration.

First, we'll need volunteers to serve as control groups and research subjects. Where do you suppose we could find them?

Mr. Alura

I would LOVE to participate in this in some capacity. The thing is, if we're going to bother with it, we'd need to do it up right. Otherwise, it's written off as biased (well, it IS a report created by swingers, is it not?) or otherwise invalid and/or illegitimate. Poorly done research full of holes is worse than none at all.

So! Anybody on the board know how to develop a bullet-proof research project that would stand up to the scrutiny of...whoever it is that discredits this stuff? See, I'm not exactly one to lead or design one of these durned things; I never went to university (at least not yet) so I don't yet have the vocabulary or knowledge of research methods. Common sense, I'd like to think, I have a-plenty. But in an area like this, it's not enough. We need someone who is neurotically detail-oriented, annoyingly thorough, and a dyed-in-the-wool perfectionist.

On a slightly less intense scale, I had an idea to do an online survey that could be linked to various alternative lifestyle websites (swinglifestyle, AFF, etc.). I don't know much about the security or validity of research done via the web (ie: maybe using IP addresses to cut down on repeat survey-takers?) but the results could be graphed and mapped with something as simple as Excel. Mr. intuition is a whiz at data analysis (although not in the healthcare sector). I had even gone as far as drafting a set of questions that I felt were relevent. Obviously the more data points collected, the more accurate the results. It would be great, also, if a survey like this could be linked from more 'mainstream' websites, too, not just lifestyle websites. It would need wide exposure. Anyone have any ideas?

[DBL D]

OK...I'm officially UNDERGROUND now! I too can't stand stupid people...people who are too stupid to debate because they just might lose...or learn something about other healthy people.

I know I can look stupid, but I'm not...I don't think. Is that like asking yourself if you're crazy? It means you aren't?

Male D

[intuition897]

And Miss Piggy, I couldn't agree more! It's pretty obvious (to us at least) that we do not fall under the 'sick' category. But try telling that to certain closed-minded individuals. Sheesh! Like talking to a brick wall.

[De and Ci]

Is there a cure for Troilism? Any mention of any treatment for it?

[DBL D]

Originally Posted by intuition897

...I never went to university (at least not yet) so I don't yet have the vocabulary or knowledge of research methods. Common sense, I'd like to think, I have a-plenty....

Please PLEASE don't go to college! You are way to educated and smart now....

M.D.

[two4youinswva]

Originally Posted by De and Ci

Is there a cure for Troilism? Any mention of any treatment for it?

Just the "Clockwork Orange" method, and it's only 50% effective.

[Miss_Piggy]

Originally Posted by De and Ci

Is there a cure for Troilism? Any mention of any treatment for it?

Treatment would probably be in the form of cognitive behavioural therapy. In short, this usually means to help a particular individual recognise certain types of thoughts as well as the behaviours that typically go with said thoughts. Working to elliminate the problematic thoughts will in turn help to elliminate the behaviour.

On the pill side, I have seen mention of hormone therapy. These would really just reduce your sex drive altogether.

[Vespertine]

Holy shit!

That Forum's something else.

[Dolphins524]

Living in a small town in 'the bible belt' of Florida, I could see this happening here. If a club got found out, there'd be holy hell to pay. What I find amuseing though, is the ones raising the the most hell are probably posting their comments after quite a few trips to the fridge for a cold one, firein' one up, or just gettin' off the mistress. These a$$ holes that pass judgement the most are the ones you see picketing the titty bars & the xxx book stores . I'll bet the women that are picketing these places are there sayin' to themselves, "I hope we can get this place shut down before Claude finds out it's here, or I'll never keep him home " . What a bunch of bullsh!t.

[txduo2000]

I agree with you Dolphin ... it seems the Morality Police are very often made up of hypocrites who enjoy guilty pleasures at their whim, but only .... shhhhh ..... if it's kept secret!

Then they want to begrudge folks like us for our honesty and openness.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by Vespertine

Holy shit!

That Forum's something else.

Something else, ain't it? Yeah, and we're the sick ones. :rollseyes HellOO?? And wishing AIDS on someone - even your worst enemy - isn't sick?

Yeah Dolphin I agree. I wouldn't want to assume it, of course, but it would certainly fit the pattern of denial, denial, denial. I just couldn't get over the venom and hatred in those people's posts. I didn't actually believe people could be so ignorant or inflexible! ...Well maybe I shouldn't say that. Anyone who can shove their head so far up their ass has a degree of flexibility that many of us in the lifestyle would envy.

Ahem...that wasn't nice of me. lol But sometimes it can't be helped.

[txduo2000]

OMG ... ok, I read just the first two pages ... but from what I could see, the majority of posters around the 18th and 19th of Sept. were basically saying to leave that club in Muncie alone and move on to more important issues.

I applaud those people.


And many of them made me laugh. I like to laugh.

And by the way ... GO MRS INDY!!!! DAMN fine responses on that forum! DAMN fine ... glad to be in the same club!

[XMonkey]

I have just now read this entire forum - and, please, no research, I couldn't countenance the thought of being proven 'normal'!

[txduo2000]

By the way ... as you all know, you can look in the "Who's Online section" at just about any given time and see that there are sometimes hundreds of "guests" who are just browsing the site.

Hmmmm. Wonder how many of those "guests" might just be folks who outwardly criticize this lifestyle? What might the percentages be?????

Food for thought .......