Originally posted by IndyGirl2004 The part about those of us over forty not being as familiar with the HIV/Aids situation because our teenage years were just prior to the outbreak certainly doesn't give us any excuse to be ignorant about it or to bury our heads in the sand.
We weren't trying to imply that those over 40 were less aware of HIV, only that HIV had not impacted their sex lives as much because they didn't grow up with HIV.
Originally posted by IndyGirl2004 Hopefully, we are old enough to also be well-read about it all and to make more informed and safer choices despite when we became sexually aware.
True, but even though another couple may be equallly well-read and informed, they still might come to completely different conclusion regarding what is an acceptable risk for them.
Originally posted by IndyGirl2004 Besides, isn't it a bit more enjoyable when you have that little added piece of mind that you've gone the extra mile to be as safe as possible?
That depends on the individual. Some people spend all their lives playing it safe, while others aren't afraid to take some risks. We would suggest that life wouldn't be as enjoyable unless we take some risks. Aren't we all accepting a certain element of risk by being swingers in the first place?
All of your points were very well taken and I agreed with them. Sorry if I didn't come off that way
Yes, opting to have several sexual partners is more risky and so I think more thought and care should be taken when getting ready to invite someone to have sex. Having read many threads about the experiences of others, it seems that there are many people who do take this extra step, but by the same token there are many who don't.
If and when we do decide to swap with others, I will be among you who do try to be more safe.
Condoms present one quandry for us though... In addition to preventing pregnancy and many STDs - condoms also very thoroughly prevent sloppy seconds or even "thirds, fourths, and fifths...
Now, I have two playmates that very much enjoy the feeling of sloppy seconds and a cream-pie seems essential in order to provide the full experience
Then in our case, we are particularly careful about who is allowed to ride bareback and who is not. Those who are a very few indeed. Add to that STD concern that I am of child-bearing age and condition, and we had to seriously consider all possible risks.
Even then, as was said already, it is sometimes a risk we elect to take. Swinging in general is a risky behavior (socially, medically, emotionally) and yet we don't elect to not participate. We simply evaluate various risks and elect to either accept or not accept those behaviours based on the immediate circumstances...
Not to minimize the impact of STDs but, statistically, it is very much more likely that any of us is going to be killed in an auto accident this week than it is that we will contract HIV this week == and yet, we still elect to get in the car.
Bunny and I have discussed this, but I thought I'd put my two cent's worth in...
I've been swinging a bit longer than Bunny has, and I have gone bareback a few times. However, in each case it was with someone I knew well and trusted and vice versa. Just the same, I understand her concerns and abide by them.
Having said that, there is still no such thing as zero risk, even with condoms. The swingers we play with on a regular basis are people we could certainly go bareback with and not worry much about it. But then, these are quality people we trust. However, we still use them just the same (BTW, I used my first polyurethane condom this morning and will never go back to latex.., more for comfort reasons than anything else (well, and to keep Bunny from getting knocked up, too...
I am of the opinion that a lot of this STD stuff has been overhyped, due to HIV, and to a somewhat lesser extent, herpes (given that one will kill you and the other is forever, perhaps this is understandable at least to a point, considering how incredibly stupid most people are, especially when it comes to matters sexual).
The car and motorcycle analogy is a good one. Both have significant statistical risks, but if you exercise good judgment in operating them, you really have very little to worry about. The same thing applies to sex (and this is whether you are a swinger or not). If you are choosy about who you couple with, avoiding the usual high risk groups and those who are just plain skanky (you know them when you see them), in terms of probability, you will have very little to worry about.
Someone made mention of the "over 40" crowd, and us not having to deal with STDs back in the 1970s and all that. True, we didn't have things like HIV to worry about (and truth be known, we still didn't for the most part, even after HIV appeared on the scene, as long as you were not a gay male or IV drug user), but there were still things like syphillis and gonorrea out there. But even so, and after all the profligate fucking we did back then, very few of us ever got any kind of STD.
Moral of the story is that, again, if you exercise a modicum of good judgment (which translates to being choosy about the kinds of people you play with), the risks are low.
Just the same, I'm not going to buck Bunny on this, and have no particular desire to. While barebacking is not totally ruled out, the rule of thumb is still "wrap that rascal"...
Thank you for all your feed back. We just spend the weekend with our favorite playmates and discussed the subject. It was generally agreed that going bareback was not worth the risk. One, both of us ladies never want the embarassment of going to the doctor with one or having to tell everyone we've played with about it. The other point was that with all the new condoms, in this case TrojanSupra polyurethane condoms, that it wrapping it up wasn't that bad.
The gentleman made a point that he only liked to play with ladies who he thinks he doesn't have to use a condom with; then uses one any way. He avoids partners he feels the need for full body latex to play safely with.
While I do feel strongly about STDs and such, I do give blow jobs without condoms and would never do one with - Ick. I also insist on condoms as a subtle emotional protection. I only want to have sex with Bear au natural.
Originally posted by bear_n_bunny Bear and I went to meet a couple last night that he had coresponding with. The lounge we met in was a little loud since it was full of cowboys from the Rodeo, so the guys ended up talking with each other, and the ladies chatted. In the course of conversation she reveals that they were not going to swing with some couple they met and liked because the woman insisted on condoms and her husband didn't do condoms.
What! I was shocked. I couldn't think of anything to say as it was so casually offered. Needless to say I handled it badly by not saying anything and calling the evening early. It was something to speak with Bear about, and not in a lounge full of cowboys from the Rodeo.
Here's my query, are bareback swingers common? As much as I trust and enjoy our long time playmates, I think I'd still insist on a condom. Not just to prevent me getting pregnant, but avoid those tricky and deadly STDs. No matter how honest someone was about being clean, the fact of the matter is STDs nowadays can hide out for years.
As an example, after being celibate for six years once, my yearly PAP came up funny. Turns out it was clymedia. Who knows how long that little nasty had been lurking around in my system. I would hate to think I'd in all honesty told a partner I was clean and then given them something.
The point of this rambling is, how can swingers justify ever being OK with going bareback? If you are OK with it, can you share why? If you do insist on bareback, shouldn't that be something in your profile or shared up front?I know I don't everything on the subject and enjoy the different opinions on the board.
I'll be the first to admit I enjoy sex without condoms far more than with, but I don't think I could justify it. As well, it is something seperates mine and Bear's love making from our playing.
-- A Shocked and Confused Bunny
Interesting...I am a single male that swings with friends and have been for about 2 years now.
We started with condoms and it worked out, they are a hassle but nun the less we used them. For about the last year we have gone without condoms.
I will share with you, I have beed tested and everything is good "negative". It is definetly more fun without condoms, I have the same concerns as you. They do not play with any one else nor do I.
I do not have a girl friend/wife at the moment which is really not my preference to tell you the truth, it just happens to be the situation.
When I find a girl friend, will I still swing with them? If she is into it yes, but I will not push the issue either...that is another story all together...
She, the wife of my swing friends, has her regular check ups and she has had no lurking little bugs, fortunately.
We are lucky that we have an exclusive swing thing and can really enjoy the sex.
Originally posted by suntory Ok but HOW do you know the guy youre wife is screwing isnt Bi?? this is the problem or one of them!
You can never know for sure, Suntory, but if you take some time to get to know the people you play with, you can reduce the odds to almost nil. We believe restricting our play to couples also helps.
Once again, let me say that this is what we've done in the past.
I don't think we'd exclude a couple just because they'd played with single men, but it might cause us to get to know them a little better. It's unlikely we'd choose to play with a couple with a bi husband. Again, we'd have to get to know them and assess the risks.
Trust is great. I trust all the couples we play with. Does that mean I should trust the couples they have played with in the past or are still playing with? Just how far should this trust extend?
Until there is an over the counter, immediate results, full spectrum, test for all the nasties out there, I'm not playing bearbacked. As well, I like the fact bareback play is just for Bear and I; added intimacy.
I rarely use condoms. My usual thought is if I do not trust you enough to have sex without a condom I do not trust you enough to have sex with one. I am thoughtful and careful but there is a risk. But I look at it this way. There are about 900,000 people in america who are thought to be HIV positive. About 500,000 of them are within the ages 35-55. Which is about 55%. Texas has 27,000 HIV cases which is about 16,200 in that age range. About 2,100 of the total 900,000 are from heterosexual contact. That makes the risk .2% which is 420 people in texas . Take into consideration i only have sex with females and so that is half that number...i.e. - .1% or 210 people. Finally take into consideration the risk of transmission is 3.1 percent (female to male) if the women is actually HIV positive, this will leave you with a risk factor of 3.1% of 0.1% = .003% or less than one person. To look at this another way, thats 3 out of 1000 chance of contracting HIV IF THE WOMEN HAS IT. I can live with that risk as it is way less than almost anything I do. I have included the web sites where the data was obtained. Lot of numbers and maybe I messed up my calculations but at any rate the risk is very small.
We just spend the weekend with our favorite playmates and discussed the subject. It was generally agreed that going bareback was not worth the risk.
Many of you have read out previous posts on this subject including CreamPies, etc. We have said that if you are going to do oral without everything covered up, why insist on rubbers for intercourse. This is our experience from only two months ago.
We enjoy MFM and met a guy at a club we frequent. He was really nice and wanted to party with us. He had only one request, he insisted on wearing a condom. Even though we like the Cream Pie experience, we decided that it would be OK and went to the room. Of course, oral sex was unprotected. He did my wife, she did him, I did her, the usual. When it came time for intercourse, he put on a rubber and we all had fun.
One month later, guess what...Yes...Chlymadia. Damn! Well, my wife and I went to the doctor, took some pills and now it's gone. Since our previous playtime with another was over six months ago, we know this is the guy who we caught this from.
What have we learned from all this?
1. Having sex with others is risky.
2. All swingers choose to take the risk.
3. You can get an STD from oral.
4. People who play "Double Standard" sex (unprotected oral and protected intercourse) are only fooling themselves.
This experience has solidified our attitude on this subject. The only "Safe" sex is monogamy or, if adding others, full latex body suits with air masks. Does anyone know where we can get his and hers full latex body suits? But then again, what fun would that be?
Please no flaming. This is our true life experience in swinging.
With so many diseases out there today and the nature of some to "hide out", there is absolutely NO WAY my Master would ever allow anyone to be with me without using one. The ONLY person who gets to go in "au natural" is my Master and only him. Age isn't a factor, there is a huge percentage of people over the age of 65 with STD's who live in homes where they have lots of unprotected sex.... just my thoughts on the subject.