HPV - Swinging's dirty little secret?

My wife and I have only swung about 6 times total (with 4 different couples) and we've always used condoms for sex. Recently my wife had an abnormal pap and we discovered that she (we) has HPV and we're fairly sure we got it from swinging (since we've been monogamous for the previous 10 years).

Depending on who you ask, HPV seems to be present in about 25% to 80% of the general "sexually active" population.

Until recently there was NO test which could detect HPV, other than warts showing up or an abnormal pap smear for women. I haven't seen an STD test which tests for it.

HPV can incubate in a healthy person for years without ever showing signs - even though the person is still "contagious".

HPV is apparently extremely easy to transmit. Condoms will not stop it from spreading.

So I have two questions:

1) Given this, you could have HPV and not know it. Is it expected that most swingers have it? I would think that if it was present in 80% of the general population that it would be present in even more of the swinger population. In that case, is it one of those things where it's just not talked about (everyone assumes everyone has it)? Or does everyone really think they don't have it?

2) Are my wife and I "done"? At this point we're pretty much assuming that we are, since I expect that although most swingers have been exposed to it they don't realize and so they wouldn't want to swing with people who have it. (Either that or we'll have to get a red "HPV" sticker made up for our foreheads for when we go to clubs...)

[St. Augustine]

(Cathy)

Showing my innocence here but what is HPV??

[ga_cpl_frknit]

Here is a simple question/answer website about HPV.
http://www.digene.com/hpvresource/patient_answers.html

And don't feel bad, I had to look it up too.

~Tracy~

[St. Augustine]

(Cathy)

Thanks for the link... very informative!

[LadyCleo]

It is VERY possible that she did NOT get it from swinging and had it prior. It is a virus that can have a long latency period. It is also a VERY common virus. In fact, I believe that more than 80% of the population could be affected (but don't quote me on that)
I have 2 close girlfriends that have been diagnosed with cervical cancer due to HPV. Neither are in the lifestyle and neither have had more than a handful of partners nor have their partners had more than a handful. What I am trying to say is, if those 2 ladies with their limited sexual experience (and that of their partners) can get it, then it's a safe bet, to me anyway, that it is a VERY common virus and not much to worry about.

But, that's my $0.02

LC

[Fire_and_Air]

We've touched on a little of this in one of the other threads about herpes. Here's a question... if HPV (warts) is just that, warts, can't someone give it to themself... ie, if you have a wart on your hand, then touch yourself or someone else via bathing or sex, can't you transmit warts to your nether regions and therefore become diagnosed with genital warts?

[TealCobra]

Originally posted by LadyCleo
What I am trying to say is, if those 2 ladies with their limited sexual experience (and that of their partners) can get it, then it's a safe bet, to me anyway, that it is a VERY common virus and not much to worry about.

But, that's my $0.02

LC

Don't take this the wrong way but HOW can you say that is not much to worry about? For men, HPV IME is not much to worry about. However, HPV can cause cervical cancer in women! That's a problem. Obviously its much easier for a woman to pass this on to men b/c they may actually have no visible warts due to them being "hidden." I also read an article a while back that stated the presence of HPV may actually cause oral cancer for those giving oral to the infected. Don't know about that one but i guess anything is possible.

Unfortunately i speak from experience as i was exposed to a person who was very dishonest about 3 years ago. My wife and i were separted and i got together w/a very premiscuous (sp?) girl and had unprotected sex (my fault). It took about 9 months for visible warts to show up. Pretty quick if you ask me considering HPV may not become visible for up to 10 years!

Needless to say that was a very difficult thing to go through w/my wife as we reconciled shortly after a 5 month split. Another concern to consider is child birth for women who have HPV. Because women may develop warts on their cervix it can cause problems during childbirth which may force a C-section birth. The thing that scares me is that it is possible to pass this virus on to the unborn child.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade but from what i have gathered, this virus is out there and infecting many more people than we know. Unfortunately you have to do research to find out about it. I didn't know it even existed until after i had contracted it.

There are so many different strains of HPV and don't expect any kind of cure in the future. You may be able to get rid of the presence of warts but will always be a carrier. That sucks for me b/c my fantasies of 3 somes and/or swaps will never be realized.

[BettyAnnMBSC]

Human Papillomavirus (HPV) has been reported by various studies to be present in between 65% and 95% of the adult population in general. It is generally accepted to be a sexually transmitted virus.

Since it is a virus and virii are poorly understood (by comparison to other pathogens); there is great division of information out there... Since there is no generally accepted blood test available for detection, any opinion of infection rates is just a guess...

There are many many types of HPV. Some are known to be a predictor of cervical cancer, most are not. The cancer concern is primarily that of women and the cervix. Regular pap smears are very important!!!

Some forms of HPV have also been implicated in external genital warts.

When the virus is inactive -- it may or may not be contagious.

A positive impression of HPV does not indicate a positive test for either genital warts or cervical cancer or cell change. While warts on the hands and other parts are often caused by a form of HPV -- that same form does not cause genital warts.

Many professionals feel that transmission orally is not likely. There are no blood tests available to diagnose a person for HPV. The diagnosis is made by physical examination and medical impression.

It is possible to develop an immunity to HPV -- in that an infection of the same type will not generally recurr.

Most professionals agree that a past histopry of genital warts or HPV are not contraindicators in pregnancy. A cesarian section is not indicated solely on that basis. Active genital warts are a different matter altogether.... They may be a cause for concern.

This all said -- if only 50% of couples are 100% momgomous -- and 80%+ of all adults are HPV positive -- it's not possible at all that this is entirely a sexually transmitted condition (a thesis shared by very few professionals). We should though consider that HPV is not the same as cervical cancer or genital warts. An very simplified anology being that all German Shepards (gen. warts) are dogs (HPV) -- not all dogs (HPV) are German Shephards (gen. warts).

Since it is a virus (as is the common cold, pneumonia, and HIV) there is no cure in sight. Only treatment....

If you have true and real concerns, speak with your physician....

[outofcontrol]

welcome to swinging

[incommunicado]

I have heard that there is no cure, but that it can go away on its own (1-2 years and you are considered "in remission"). But, does that mean remission like herpes, where the virus is always there, or in remission like cancer where it can go away and never come back again?

Also, if it can lay dormant on the cervix for up to 20 years, how does it just go away a few years after manifesting.

[TealCobra]

Originally posted by incommunicado
I have heard that there is no cure, but that it can go away on its own (1-2 years and you are considered "in remission"). But, does that mean remission like herpes, where the virus is always there, or in remission like cancer where it can go away and never come back again?

Also, if it can lay dormant on the cervix for up to 20 years, how does it just go away a few years after manifesting.

There is no cure. If you heard that it can "go away," i think the general thought is that if there are no visible signs of the virus. That does not mean that a person doesn't have it or can or cannot give it to another person. So yes you could say that it can go into remission like Herpes as far as the visual indicators are concerened. Last i checked, there isn't even a test for this virus. It is generally accepted to be the cause of genital warts and thus the association.

[alabamafuntonig]

to all who disbalive ...its not a hoax look it up

hpv link1

hpv link 2

hpv link3

and ther are 10,000 more links on yahoo or google to check out. with a little bit of knowledge we all can learn ..unless ya wanna just say its a hoax becouse some other swing site posted the same ?.....wait you think maybe its part of a global conspericy to ..............

[alabamafuntonig]

I want to make the point clear to the board and those who know what my opinions are so there is no confusion!

I feel if there is a issue pertaining to swinging that is maybe so important that the means by which the poster gets his broadcast out matters little to me!

HPV is a serios issue most of us probly had no clue about or even considerd as a issue pertaining to us! if this "unregisterd : posted this post on 1000 sites for the mere fact of spreading the word about hpv than his motives were genuine and full of compasion for the board members! He /she may be part of a advocasy group that does this very thing! But the facts remain the same the word has gotten out and there are some of us that are now more informed today becouse one person had the terrific idea of giving us knowledge! there are scores of websites and medical refrences to hpv! on the net .

Imagine if the internet was out when the spread of aids was in its infancy! imagine if the same "unregisterd poster" posted a article on aids in 1975 ...would we be having this same discusion today! knowledge is power people!

[alabamafuntonig]

one more for disbelievers..and yes there is a few sites out there that want to discredit what hpv is but hey there are a whole group of people on the net that think the holocost did not happen either.......

click her if ya wanna believe

[incommunicado]

My wifes doctor is the head of the Dyspareunia and Vulvar Pain Center at Johns Hopkins and this is his sub-specialty. Here is their web site...

http://www.dvpcenter.com/Info_Human_Papilloma_Virus.htm

Prior to meeting with him, we were upsetting ourselves with partial and mis-information from this and other sites. All I can say is, if you don't have a specialist, get one. It helps a lot! Our meeting was very enlightening.

No, there is no vaccine for HPV, but it does eventially go away
completely. Not Herpes remission, go away, but completely gone like you got over the flu, go away. Usually in about 8 months max, with a 30% minority hanging onto it a little longer. Put simply, if it's undetectable, it's not there (unlike Herpes, which is there but dormant). In the mean time, it's possible to have no symptoms. And, generally, recurrance is infrequent.

There are actual tests for both men and women, though they are seldom used unless symptoms are showing. An abnormal pap smear does not mean you have HPV, but it can suggest that your doctor test for it.

Yes, there are potenially serious symptoms to HPV ranging from warts and lessions to cervical abnormalities and cancer in women. But, not all HPV infections are high risk and not all high risk infections cause abnormalities.

It is NOT always sexually transmitted. You can easilly get it from a
toilet seat, a hot tub or some similar situation. (this is from the nurse manager who just came back from a symposium).

Condoms are 80% effective for protecting men, but not woman because the virus can linger on the scrotum and areas around the penis that could come in contact with vaginal tissue.

People have got to stop treating this like it is a lifelong disease
with the same stigma, as herpes or HIV, with support groups and
closed circle dating. Yes, there are serious health risks that need
to be monitored while you've got it (for women), and you may want to think twice about who you sleep with for a while, but you are not condemned to a life of celebacy or sex with only HPV infected individuals.

Now, this does beg the question of making FULL protection in swinging, including dental dams for oral sex, manadatory.

It's ironic that we have not problems with condoms to prevent pregnancy or disease, but putting latex or plastic wrap over a woman (or man) for oral sex, somehow implies that they are dirty.