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  1. #1
    Swingers Board Addict Regularguy's Avatar
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    Post STD Fearmongering/HIV Hetero Epidemic Myth

    It is interesting reading alot of these posts. One finds a common thread of those championing the cry the redcoats are coming.

    I continue to wonder what is the behavioral impetus behind those that beat the STD/HIV drum to heterosexuals.

    There is no doubt that there are risks associated with many things, from driving one's car, to having sex, to playing golf. The question really is what are the relative risks?

    As an example, people have been killed playing lawn darts, people have been killed playing in 1 foot high surf, people have been eaten by sharks, and people are killed every year by lightning.

    It is curious to read about dental dams here and condoms for oral sex, but I have never seen them used EVER at a swing club. One wonders what the benefit is from those holding themselves out to be the protector of all mankind yet they themselves do not use condoms or dental dams during oral sex.

    In the case of HIV, which used to be called GRIDS which stood for gay related immunodeficiency syndrome, this virus is a HIGHLY DISCRIMINATORY virus in spite of the slogans ACT UP! and other homosexual political extremists groups have sloganeered to the contrary.

    So what are the relative risks of a heterosexual aquiring HIV? A more accurate term is seroconverting. Like most pathogens, they must vector themselves in sufficient quantities to overwhelm a person's natural immune system. As an example, people ingest pathogens every day, yet we are not in a state of perpetual sickiness. HIV is no different. Aside from being an extremely fragile virus, it must be vectored in huge quantities necessary to seroconvert it's host. What are the best means of vectoring a retrovirus? In the case of HIV, getting a large viral load into the bloodstream of an immunocompromised host. So think for a moment what behaviors lend themselves during sex to direct access to the bloodstream. Which do you think is more effiicent, anal sex or vagianl sex? So who practices anal sex more, male homosexuals or heterosexuals? Who practices rectal fisting more, heteros or homos?

    Who is immunocompromised more?

    The fact remains that due to their average sexual partner statistics exceeding 1000 partners throughout their sexual careers, male homosexuals remarkably increase their exposure levels. Because they practice anal sex far more, they are far more likely to engage in behaviors that directly acess the bloodstream. Because they ingest feces in proportions highly disparate from the heterosexual community, they tend to have a bewildering array of fecal pathogen borne diseases. Because they are remakrably more likely to be durg abusers, all these factors combine to make them highly immunocompromised in COMPARISON to heterosexuals.

    Another behavior that increases their risks is engaging in both insertive and receptive anal sex. This cannot be done by heterosexuals unless they are functioning hermapthrodites. Epidemiology cannot yet explain why simultaneous rectal insertive/receptivity has a synergistic effect in vectoring HIV.

    So getting back to relative risks, repeated studies have shown that male homosexuals seroconvert at about 20% by the age of 20, and about half of all male homosexual will HIV seroconvert by age of 50. Now these studies were performed prior to the widespread use of protease inhibitors which apparently have now caused a reversion to non-condom sex by male homosexuals.

    The glaring question remains, if "AIDS Doesn't Discriminate" and Anyone Can Get It" and "It is Not Just a Gay Disease Anymore" and all the other propaganda slogans created by homosexual AIDS strategists, then why do female homosexuals not have HIV at the same rates as male homosexuals? Why do heterosexuals not have HIV at the percentage rates shown above unless AIDS is in fact a highly discriminatory disease?

    So what are in fact the percentage rates for heterosexuals? One can see the relative risks based upon the well regarded Paladin study, which took a control group of couples wherein one partner was seropositive and one was not. Over the multiple year study, it showed that it took an average of 1000 acts of unprotected intercourse with ejaculation by a seropositive male into his female partner to statistically seroconvert her.

    Now that the CDC has publically admitted to exaggerating the hetero HIV risks, (would you like the name and date of the CDC person stating such?)why does the CDC's daily AIDS summaries show the risk to heterosexuals is almost non-existent?

    So why would homosexual activists want the heterosexual public to think they are at risk?

    Well, since the government controls funding, and that funding level exceeds that of cancer funding even though 10 times more will die from cancer, who do you think controls and receives alot of this funding? The AIDS activists who have self labeled themselves the "Pink Mafia" as a result of being the recipients, that's who.

    The AIDS fearmongering that is done by homosexual acitvists and ignorant , duped heterosexuals who don't study epidemiology nor study homosexual activism is the tool they use to convince heterosexuals are at risk as a means of releasing money to a group that is otherwise rejected by society.

    As to other STD's, one has to wonder why condoms are used for intercourse but not oral sex, which is probably practiced even more in swing clubs, yet diseases are just about unheard of at swing clubs.

    <small>[ 06-24-2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: Regularguy ]</small>

    [ 06-24-2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Regularguy ]

  2. #2
    Previously of MichiganCouple
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    Thats exactly what I was going to say. John

  3. #3
    Swingers Board Addict Regularguy's Avatar
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    Lol John.......

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    Thumbs up

    Wow, I love a person that can speak his mind!! This is food for thought!! I think people just don't tell you that they may have a std due to the fact that people would not sleep with them unless they themselves were infected. This is why it pays to be a little selective in our choices rather than exposing yourself at a club to people you may never see again.

  5. #5
    Swingers Board Addict ciscosv's Avatar
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    Regularguy...what is your major malfunction. It is people like you that truely piss me off. That is all I have to say about that for now.
    By the way this is the wife!
    M&M

    Melts in your mouth, not in your hand

  6. #6
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    quote:
    Originally posted by ciscosv:
    Regularguy...what is your major malfunction. It is people like you that truely piss me off. That is all I have to say about that for now.
    By the way this is the wife!

    I think Regularguy is a bit on the homophobe side and like the over-zealous radical right wingers, he's using his interpretation of facts to spread his propaganda that HIV/AIDS is a male homosexual disease and the likelihood of it being transmitted thru heterosexual acts is so minute that us females shouldn't worry about the condoms because, well, the chances are better that we'll be hit by lightening than they are in contracting the HIV virus thru heterosexual sexual contact.

    BTW, [Kissing] to ya, Mrs Ciscosv!

    VOTE FOR JULIE!! [Blowjob]

    Quin
    [Smiley_sex]
    One thing about me is that I'm consistant in my behavior, my thoughts, and my posting. I don't sell out or change for any reason outside of my own self wanting to. What you see is what you get: today, tomorrow and every day after that.

  7. #7
    Swingers Board Addict Regularguy's Avatar
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    Quin,

    Your reply was non-substantive. Had you made this reply in a high school debate class, everyone would have laughed at you because it was merely an ad hominiem attack rather than anything remotely approaching merit. That is always a sign of one who cannot support their opinion-it's the intellectual equivalent of throwing in the towel.

    The Paladin study was a well regarded study which proves my contention, as does all the evidence from the CDC which can be viewed in the Daily Aids Summaries where they break down seroconversion based upon behaviors.

    Using the Western epidemiological model, HIV has never been and will never be a statistical threat to heterosexuals based upon heterosexual behavior. That is why the AIDS epidemic that homosexual activists have been insisting is upon heterosexuals in the U.S. has not materialized for the several decades they have been insisting it was upon us.

    And just as a note, before you go around hurling epithets created by homosexual activists to crush dissent, why don't you try looking up the clinical definition of phobias since you are confusing phobias with heterodoxic (go look it up) people that challenge political HIV disinformation.

    [ 07-29-2002, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Regularguy ]

  8. #8
    <aSlutInDC>
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Regularguy:
    Quin,

    Your reply was non-substantive. Had you made this reply in a high school debate class, everyone would have laughed at you because it was merely an ad hominiem attack rather than anything remotely approaching merit. That is always a sign of one who cannot support their opinion-it's the intellectual equivalent of throwing in the towel.

    The Paladin study was a well regarded study which proves my contention, as does all the evidence from the CDC which can be viewed in the Daily Aids Summaries where they break down seroconversion based upon behaviors.

    Using the Western epidemiological model, HIV has never been and will never be a statistical threat to heterosexuals based upon heterosexual behavior. That is why the AIDS epidemic that homosexual activists have been insisting is upon heterosexuals in the U.S. has not materialized for the several decades they have been insisting it was upon us.

    And just as a note, before you go around hurling epithets created by homosexual activists to crush dissent, why don't you try looking up the clinical definition of phobias since you are confusing phobias with heterodoxic (go look it up) people that challenge political HIV disinformation.

    <small>[ 07-29-2002, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Regularguy ]</small>

    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK Regularguy!!

  9. #9
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    quote:
    Originally posted by <aSlutInDC>:
    quote:
    Originally posted by Regularguy:
    Quin,

    Your reply was non-substantive. Had you made this reply in a high school debate class, everyone would have laughed at you because it was merely an ad hominiem attack rather than anything remotely approaching merit. That is always a sign of one who cannot support their opinion-it's the intellectual equivalent of throwing in the towel.

    The Paladin study was a well regarded study which proves my contention, as does all the evidence from the CDC which can be viewed in the Daily Aids Summaries where they break down seroconversion based upon behaviors.

    Using the Western epidemiological model, HIV has never been and will never be a statistical threat to heterosexuals based upon heterosexual behavior. That is why the AIDS epidemic that homosexual activists have been insisting is upon heterosexuals in the U.S. has not materialized for the several decades they have been insisting it was upon us.

    And just as a note, before you go around hurling epithets created by homosexual activists to crush dissent, why don't you try looking up the clinical definition of phobias since you are confusing phobias with heterodoxic (go look it up) people that challenge political HIV disinformation.

    <small>[ 07-29-2002, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: Regularguy ]</small>

    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK Regularguy!!
    LAMBCHOP!!! You're back!! I know it was only a matter of time...oooohhh now you're in DC...where will you land next? Anyone taking bets?

    Quin
    [Smiley_sex]
    One thing about me is that I'm consistant in my behavior, my thoughts, and my posting. I don't sell out or change for any reason outside of my own self wanting to. What you see is what you get: today, tomorrow and every day after that.

  10. #10
    Swingers Board Addict OhioCouple's Avatar
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    Quin,

    You of all people, being a history major should know that most things are cyclical (sp). I am sure you had quite a few lessons in geography too as they go hand in hand. It's a big world out there with many place to hide if one chooses to do so.

    Sorry, can't take any bets on this one. I only bet on sure things.

    Oh and by the way....it's chicken for dinner here tonight again, guess we will have to learn to agree on the basting of lamb. [ROFL]
    Lori
    Remember that human beings are complicated creatures. We like our bedtime routines but dislike routine in our bed times. - Sallie Foley, M.S.W.

  11. #11
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    I'm not going to get involved in a long-drawn out explanation or discussion (because I'm not qualified to. Are you Mr. Regularguy?) but at the recent Lifestyales convention Dr. Norm Scherzer, a professor of Human Sexuality and Sexual Function and Dysfunction as well as the author of numerous books on sexuality, a member of the Society for the Scientific Study of Sex and a swinger presented a strong case for the use of safe sex. He also feels based on his analysis of the statistics that Hep C will be the next big pandemic. Pay your money and take your chances. My wife and I will not play with anyone who thinks as you do Regularguy whether you're ultimately right or not. There are too many other nice people to play with who don't like the odds any better than we do.

  12. #12
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    quote:
    Originally posted by OhioCouple:
    Quin,

    You of all people, being a history major should know that most things are cyclical (sp). I am sure you had quite a few lessons in geography too as they go hand in hand. It's a big world out there with many place to hide if one chooses to do so.

    Sorry, can't take any bets on this one. I only bet on sure things.

    Oh and by the way....it's chicken for dinner here tonight again, guess we will have to learn to agree on the basting of lamb. [ROFL]
    Lori

    Went out to dinner tonight with a group of friends and while we were browsing over the menu a few mentioned the lambchops sounding pretty good. I, of course, had to say that I wouldn't recommend them. The one guy who did order them ended up choking on his lambchop. Not surprising, you know how lambchops are.

    Quin
    [Smiley_sex]
    One thing about me is that I'm consistant in my behavior, my thoughts, and my posting. I don't sell out or change for any reason outside of my own self wanting to. What you see is what you get: today, tomorrow and every day after that.

  13. #13
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    quote:
    Originally posted by imsnowman:
    I'm not going to get involved in a long-drawn out explanation or discussion (because I'm not qualified to. Are you Mr. Regularguy?) but at the recent Lifestyales convention Dr. Norm Scherzer, a professor of Human Sexuality and Sexual Function and Dysfunction as well as the author of numerous books on sexuality, a member of the Society for the Scientific Study of Sex and a swinger presented a strong case for the use of safe sex. He also feels based on his analysis of the statistics that Hep C will be the next big pandemic. Pay your money and take your chances. My wife and I will not play with anyone who thinks as you do Regularguy whether you're ultimately right or not. There are too many other nice people to play with who don't like the odds any better than we do.

    Exactly, imsnowman. [Wink]

    Quin
    [Smiley_sex]
    One thing about me is that I'm consistant in my behavior, my thoughts, and my posting. I don't sell out or change for any reason outside of my own self wanting to. What you see is what you get: today, tomorrow and every day after that.

  14. #14
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    "yet diseases are just about unheard of at swing clubs."
    I hear this from various folks,but frankly, I don't believe it. I tend to believe that swingers as a group tend to handle serious, noticible, treatable diseases pretty well and get them taken care off(so I'd expect a very low rate of syphillis and gonorhea). The real question comes in with stuff like herpes, HPV and -which folks can have without really knowing it.

    The clubs that I hung out were in San Francisco in the early 80's. You'd go there are lots of folks would say they never had a disease--but frequently they'd never been tested (unless they happened to give blood). Now, there were other groups that actually had some real health protocols in place(i.e. the Rajneeshies and More University and Kerista). Now, these groups did all have something in place the meant there were some medical professionals that really were keeping track of the health of those communities(even though lots of folks thought their members were nuts). If you talked to those medical professionals, they'd openly admit that they had before condoms started being used because of AIDs, regular outbreaks of various STD's at rates higher than many communities in the general population--but they thought quite a bit less than what their members would have had if they weren't part of a community where someone was on top of the issue. Now, those communities may have had worse problems than the swinger community because they had members with recent contact with bisexuals or drug users.

    Still, saying that swinging is safe because you don't know anyone that admits to having and STD isn't really going to inspire lots of folks--particularly those that tend to be on the cautious side(I'd classify myself as someone that tends to take fairly substantial risks-but also takes precautions when possible).

    Frankly, I think it is possible that at some point in the not so distant future, we may see singles establishing relaionships in swinging environments because those environments clearly have fewer diseases than places like the typical singles bar or even a church social---but at this point we're a ways from that.

  15. #15
    Swingers Board Addict babydragon's Avatar
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    I dont know what the scientists in the usa are saying and to be honest I dont care cause they change their minds every week!!.
    Proven facts are:
    More people are getting the Hiv virus from sharing needles than from sexual intercause.

    Over thirty percent of hiv positive men have stated they caught the virus from prostitutes.

    Over 45 percent of all hiv carriers are female (within the usa alone).

    I kinda think your post was a way of bashing the gay population and as for saying that gay men will have that many sexual partners in there lifes is total crap (I almost fell of my chair laughing).
    Maybe you should be the one who takes a look at the published amounts for straight/ bi/ gay men who regularly attend Clinics for checkups ???

    I am sure you'll be suprised at the results. [Blowjob]
    Always try things three times:
    1st time to try it out. 2nd time to see if it's better. 3rd time just to recap 1st and 2nd.

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