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  1. #1
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    Default Bummer STD questions

    Ok. This is a tough one. We have been kicking around swinging for 4 years. We have gone to 3 parties. The first two weren't for us. The last, we fit in well. Now, my wife is ready to dive in. Now I got some tough, crude questions.

    And they surround VD.

    The general din is everyone plays safe. But what is safe? You can get herpies from kissing. And who likes sex without a little oral for the ladies? Who likes oral with a dental dam? and who likes to blow a rubber bannana? Isn't there a lot of warts, sores, and bumps being transferred during these parties?

    Be honest. Who knows someone who has caught something and how?

    I REALLY want to be proved wrong.

  2. #2
    Chimpin' Ain't Easy Spoomonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwifemail
    Isn't there a lot of warts, sores, and bumps being transferred during these parties?
    Actually - not really...

    Swingers tend to be very cautious when it comes to safe(r) sex. Hey - we don't want VD just as much as you don't want VD. We are cautious with our playmates and use condoms with most. You have to use your Spidey sense on people - and if they seem unsafe, they probably are...

    You can also use your eyes. Warts, sores and bumps? We consider those clues

    When we were last tested, I let the doctor know what we were into. She basically said that what we were doing (our approach) was good and that we needed to just keep doing what we're doing. And she worked in a VD clinic - so I think she knew her stuff.

    And, yes, we are clean...

    Another thing to keep in mind is that swingers typically don't want to expose each other to diseases they may have. Do a search for herpes here and you'll find information of "herpes positive" swingers who are looking to swing with others who are herpes positive. They aren't out spreading it around.

    Now - is it possible to catch a disease at a swing club/event?

    Of course it is...

    Is it likely?

    Not really. People think this stuff is crawling around everywhere. Its not. So relax, play safe, choose your playmates carefully and enjoy.

    For the record - after three years in - we do not know anyone personally who has caught VD from swinging; and this in an area where hepatitis was recently the big scare in the gay community.

    We're a smart group

    Spoomonkey
    "Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities." - C. S. Lewis

  3. #3
    Swingers Board Addict JM153's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Thanks Hotwife for posing the question. It is one that we are interested in as well. One of our rules is condom for intercourse required. Recently, we have attended some house parties with experienced swingers (from different groups) and were surprised to learn that none of them routinely use condoms at all. When Ms JM tells the men they will have to use a condom, they reluctantly agree. I have had some push back form the women, but not as much as Ms JM has from the men. Of course I understand the preference - bareback is always more pleasurable - but have been surprised that these experience swingers are not more concerned.

    We have tried to find reliable information on the relative risks in the heterosexual world and have not found much. It has been our conclusion that in order of risks anal is the most risky and kissing is the least. The woman is at greater risk than the man because she has more exposed mucus tissue than the man and most (certainly HIV) STDs are transmitted through the mucus tissue. Based on our reading we have decided -no anal at all - condom with intercourse - no external protection (we still make a subjective judgment) for all other sex play.

    I hope others will contribute to this thread. Maybe, someone with medical knowledge can help us out with reliable information on the risks we are or are not taking. Thanks again for asking.

    Mr. JM

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    Mod Squad Member good times's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    I agree with Spoomonkey, especially in regards to the fact that we too have yet to meet enyone in the lifestyle who caught an std while playing with someone. My reasearch, on the internet and at the library has resulted in our conclusion that for the types of std's we may run into in the lifestyle condoms are not very effective (mainly herpes and hpv). So we don't use condoms unless requested. That doesn't mean we take no precautions at all though. We don't do anal play at all and we only play with couples. Those two things alone puts us in a very low risk demographic group, from our research low enough that the risk of catching something is a low concern for us. We also use our eyes ears and noses, if it looks sounds or smells questionable, we don't go there.
    R (He is R, she is P)

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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Thanks all.

    Any comments about oral, my fav?

    (m2f)

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    Here to Stay shigrl269's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Hi,
    New to this, a big concern, yes has beed STD's. It;s good to her others concerns/advice. Thanks!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Silence: Deafening

  8. #8
    Chimpin' Ain't Easy Spoomonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwifemail
    Silence: Deafening
    More like - "Topic: Talked To Death"

    Check out this, this, this, and this...

    Just to name a few...

    Often times, we see a question that has been discussed and we move on to one that hasn't. Sometimes answers don't come as quickly as we'd like. But - until folks get around to answering you here, these links will give you plenty ot read on the subject.

    Good stuff...

    For us - we do not use condoms with oral and feel very comfortable with that decision.

    Spoomonkey
    "Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities." - C. S. Lewis

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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Forgive me spooge monkey. I did read the other posts, it's just hard to get my head around. I can't find any statistics to establish the risk is significantly less. For us straight, rubber wearin folk, it seems like herpes is the uncurable menace, which occurs on people's mouths, which you generally kiss, or snuggle against your genitials, so germies can hop.

    So, I for one balance risks by looking at statistics. So, how frequent is this menace.

    1 in 4, maybe 1 in 5.

    So, safely, about 1 person in any couple to couple adventure (or, more likely, 2 people in every 2 couple to couple adventures).

    I see the benefits of swinging. I think it is most likely good for long lasting stable marriages. Divorce sucks. And my wife and I are horn dogs to the death.

    If we got VD, I think it might not be so nice. For one think, I live a very stressful life and would end up looking like my lips were boiling. For another, although she is driving the ship right now, I can see a lot of resentment for me bringing this up.

    We feel like we are home.

    We are scared shitless.

    We are trying to resolve these feelings.

    1 in 4.

    1 in 4.

    And nobody here is speaking up, saying "I got VD swining, and this is what I did"

    Hard to swallow, pardon the bun. facelick

  10. #10
    Chimpin' Ain't Easy Spoomonkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Quote Originally Posted by hotwifemail
    And nobody here is speaking up, saying "I got VD swining, and this is what I did"
    I am sure if someone had, someone would have spoken up...

    Like I wrote above, I don't know anyone who has contracted VD from swinging. Could it happen? Yes... And the truth is, you can catch herpes with a rubber just like you can catch it without... The risks of swinging are what they are - you expose yourself to more risk of STDs than you would through monogamy...

    Still - the swinger world is pretty smart. And no one here wants to catch something from anyone else. We take precautions and make our play as safe as we can while still allowing for the enjoyment of it. Can we completely eliminate STDs? No. Can anyone give you accurate statistics? No - since the idea of "accurate statistics" is in itself an oxymoron. But, considering the fact that we have played with a fair number of folks and have talked to a fair number more - we can say that we have yet to hear any horror stories...

    To us - that is pretty comforting.

    We must all be doing something right

    Spoomonkey

    PS - I apologize if my prior post came across as a little "smart ass". I did not mean it that way.
    "Eros will have naked bodies; Friendship naked personalities." - C. S. Lewis

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Dear hotwifemale, when you walk out the door in the morning, you're at risk, when you cross the street you're taking a risk, when you swing you're taking a risk. There is a reason why swingers screen eachother, and its a small community even in the big cities, and for good reason: you get to know your parnters, ask questions and have sex in well lit areas. Nothing is 100% safe, and if you're really twisted up about it, just don't swing at all, thats the safest next to complete abstinence.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    My wife worries about our kids being kidnapped and truckers without the right kind of licences. She doesn't worry much about running around the LA freeways with our kids in the back of the car. Why? It seems safe. I, on the underhand, am a bit stochastic in my reasoning. Everything should be assessed in terms of risk. If the risk is not that great, wonderful, count me in. But if the risk is, maybe, 10% chance of catching something even when rubbers are used, that is huge.

    I am not tweaking, just trying to get as much info as possible before making an informed choice.

    Looks like there is very little info out there about oral, and how safe or unsafe it is. Most that talk about it not being safe are from the christian right obsessing about teenagers.

    Here is a comfortable alternative position that is worth a read:

    http://www.viceland.com/issues/v11n4/htdocs/big.php

  13. #13
    Here to Stay TLO7777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Sure, the position of that article is "comforting" for those that don't really want to face the issue, but it's also uneducated and ignores medical realities.

    Yes, the risk is by far the greatest when there are visible sores, but herpes absolutely can be transmitted when there are no visible signs whatsoever.

    There are indeed swingers that have contracted STD's and a few have been courageous enough to admit it openly here on the forum.

    The bottom line is that you simply need to decide whether the rewards outweigh the risks and act accordingly.

    Once you've done that you can manage the risks further by swinging with those couples that share your own ideas about what risks are reasonable and take the same measure of precaution that you do with their other partners.

    The only truly risk free way to swing is to find others that are looking for an exclusive swinging arrangement, are willing to share tests with you, and can be trusted not to play outside of this relationship.

    I have heard of such things, but it's definitely a rare occurence and leaves out much of the fun that most swingers seem to be after.

    I find the idea of a small group of perhaps 3-6 couples that exclusively play with one another and get tested regularly quite appealing. Even so, the more people you involve the greater the risk because there are that many more individuals that can "break" the agreement and put the entire group at risk.

    Ah well, it's a nice utopian fantasy anyway.

    Dante

  14. #14
    Swingers Board Addict JM153's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    Your concern, HotWife, about Herpes although justified may be overblown. I don't have the statistics you crave, but there is a lot you can do to lessen the risk. To begin with don't play if YOU have an open sore. Typically Herpes is transmitted when the recipiant has an opening that allows the the virus into the blood stream. You could place it on unbroken skin and it is not going to get you. As you no doubt know there is a type that is associated with the mouth and is quite common. I have a friend who has that type and from time to time he gets what appears to be a cold sore. He didn't get it from sex - he got it when he was a kid and prior to becoming sexually active. Herpes is more of a nuisance then it is a problem by itself. It is incuarable but esily treated and most infected people know what their symptoms are so if they want they can avoid exposing others. Now, not always because they can be contagous and not know it. But usually they can feel an outbreak coming on. And of couse, they are not contagous all the time. So, bottom line if there are no visable sores or red places, the play partner is responsible, and you do not have any open wounds, your chance of contracting Herpes are very low. And a condom does prevent it provided you put it on early enough. That is before play begins.

    Our concern is not a non life threatening STD. Herpes would be a bad inconvenience, but it by itelf will not kill us. HIV can. We are more concerned about the risk of HIV and like you I can't find any good sttistics on the risks with heterosexual partners who have no oterher high risk activity.
    If you find some good stats, please post them.
    JM

  15. #15
    Swingers Board Addict JM153's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bummer VD Qs- for the couragous

    By the way Spoo, I had not seen the link you posted in another thread at the time I wrote the last post. Do you know how recent this chart http://www.dph.sf.ca.us/sfcityclinic...s/stdchart.asp is? It is very interesting.
    JM

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