Struggling a lot lately, it feels like I have lost a close friend and it sucks

[VanHlebar]

So I have been struggling a lot lately with one of our very very close friends. I have spoken with MrsVan at length about the issue and I don't know what else to do at this point. Not sure if I am really looking for advice, but really just venting a bit I guess.

Her and I used to be extremely close and lately something has been amiss. Her interactions with me have all but ceased except when we are in the group and our playful, flirty banter has completely disappeared. Her and her husband have been great friends and still are very very close to us. So close we really do consider them family and they feel the same towards us. Her and I used to talk either in text messages, facebook or yahoo etc and if MrsVan and her husband where busy, we would even go get lunch or coffee together. Something has happened recently and all of this has pretty much stopped. About the only time I hear from her is if she needs to get a hold of MrsVan and MrsVan isn't responding, or if she is trying to plan something for all four of us.

I still get a long great with her husband and the four of us still get along great and get together. We still go dancing, play cards or just goto dinner and then hang out for drinks etc afterwards.

I have tried in the past to talk to her about it and each time I ask she says nothing is wrong and doesn't think things have changed. Like I said, I am not sure I am really for advice if you will, just sort of venting. I just feel like I have lost a very close friend, someone that I was able to actually talk with and joke around with and just be stupid self and it really sucks. Her and MrsVan are still best friends and they still do stuff just as ladies, which is great! I just wish I knew what was wrong or what has happened. Oh well thanks for reading and letting me vent.

-Van

[lustylearning]

It could be as simple as noting a status like "taking a break" and keeping boundaries intact. It could also be as simple as she's got a lot on her mind and flirting is low priority. That's what the optimist in me would suggest.

The pessimist in me suggests that either you thought there was more of a connection between you than there was, or she's not being entirely honest with you. Maybe she's not honest with herself.

We've been very close to couples who've shut down. It's particularly frustrating when only one side shuts down or, worse yet, they take turns shutting down. You start suffering from role confusion in your place with them. Um, are we just friends? Are we just swingers? What are we?

When confronted with this, survivalist thinking takes me over. If I were in your position, I'd make a decision about whether or not the strictly vanilla friendship is good enough to continue and leave it at that.

[VanHlebar]

These are just vanilla friends, we haven't ever played with them. We met them a few years ago and although they know about our lifestyle and the four of us have talked a lot over the past year or so about the possibility of playing, it has never happened and most likely will not.

Her and I just used to be pretty good friends and something has caused it to come to a stop recently and I am just having trouble dealing with those changes in the dynamics of our group now I guess.

[Mr. Truelove]

I sympathize. It's rough. We have some vanilla/swinger friends that I'm never sure where I stand with her. We joke and have fun. Even a lot of flirty fun. But when it comes to anything more than that it changes with the weather. And it really does keep me at a distance not knowing where I stand with her. While you're situation is a little different in how it's happening, the outcome is the same: You want to be friends, you want to be a bit closer than where you are at, but without her letting you know what the issue is it makes you feel pretty helpless on what to do.

I think that is the point too, unless she comes around, it will be what it'll be. Ever want to talk about it, you know how to. We can share some long distance drinks...

[exploringRM]

Have you talked to your wife or your friend's husband about your struggles?

You've probably though of these but I'll toss them out anyway..questions that would go thru my mind if I were in your shoes:

- Could you have done something wrong, or something perceived as wrong that has upset her, caused the distance?

- Could she have found herself becoming too close to you emotionally and pulled back the other way?

- Could she just feel that the level of friendship you had was innappropriate (in her mind) in some way? Could someone have said something to her about it and now she is self-conscious?

[lustylearning]

If she's a total vanilla but knows you're a swinger, she may simply be trying to communicate that she's not a swinger. Flirty can be uncomfortable for a vanilla.

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by exploringRM

Have you talked to your wife or your friend's husband about your struggles?

You've probably though of these but I'll toss them out anyway..questions that would go thru my mind if I were in your shoes:

- Could you have done something wrong, or something perceived as wrong that has upset her, caused the distance?

- Could she have found herself becoming too close to you emotionally and pulled back the other way?

- Could she just feel that the level of friendship you had was innappropriate (in her mind) in some way? Could someone have said something to her about it and now she is self-conscious?

I have thought of each and every one of these and any of them could be possible, which is why I really would like to talk with her and just get some answers. I'll live if the dynamics are changing, but if I have done something to change them then I really would like to know about it because it would have been a complete accident if I did.

-Van

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by lustylearning

If she's a total vanilla but knows you're a swinger, she may simply be trying to communicate that she's not a swinger. Flirty can be uncomfortable for a vanilla.

We have posted a bit about this couple on here and about our little journey that we have had over the last year or so in a different thread. You are quite possibly on the track though as MrsVan and I have discussed. The timing just was completely wrong when things kicked off for us as a foursome. Just after everything hit full speed if you will, I lost my job and well the lifestyle took a back seat for a long time. Yet again, though, if that is the case and that ship has sailed if you will, then just communicate that to me/us and we can and will go back to our normal friendship. I am sure it will work it's way out eventually, it just is a bit frustrating for me at the present time.

Van

[DigginIt]

This is just off the cuff but could she be going through any hormonal changes?

Maybe something traumatic in her life that has her emotionally shut off except in instances where there is so much happening that she is able to let go of anything bothering her?

Work or life stresses that she may not feel that it's appropriate to share? Men and woman do handle stress differently.

We hope it works out as nobody likes to lose a friend, emotionally or literally.

[Alura]

I really haven't much advice to offer, Van, but I understand your frustration and share a similar experience.

Mrs. Alura and I have (had?) a friend of a dozen years or so who was close to both of us. We were a place of refuge for her and offered comfort when she needed it. Our communication was open and without limits.

Since Mrs. Alura's death, I've seen less and less of her. There's been no contact since last November or so. I've tried to stay in touch but to no avail. I think the worst part is not knowing why. It seems to me that may be the worst part for you, as well.

Alura

[VanHlebar]

Originally Posted by Alura

I think the worst part is not knowing why. It seems to me that may be the worst part for you, as well.

Alura

You couldn't have hit the nail any more squarely. This is the biggest issues. While it would suck to lose the type of friendship we had I would eventually get over it and/or deal with it. Tried to have lunch with her this week as she took a rain check last week and again she is too busy, so she asked if we could do it next week sometime. I said sure and am going to leave it in her court at this point. Not sure what else I can do anymore.

Thanks for listening folks.

-Van

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by VanHlebar

We have posted a bit about this couple on here and about our little journey that we have had over the last year or so in a different thread. You are quite possibly on the track though as MrsVan and I have discussed. The timing just was completely wrong when things kicked off for us as a foursome. Just after everything hit full speed if you will, I lost my job and well the lifestyle took a back seat for a long time. Yet again, though, if that is the case and that ship has sailed if you will, then just communicate that to me/us and we can and will go back to our normal friendship. I am sure it will work it's way out eventually, it just is a bit frustrating for me at the present time.

Van

Is it possible that you've been leaning on her emotionally because of the life problems and perhaps she feels it's time to back away?

[VanHlebar]

Well I guess things are done at this point. She has now set and canceled three different lunch dates with the last one she specifically set for tomorrow. I am beginning to think that her husband has an issue with not just her and I being alone together (well not really alone as her 2yr old is always with us ) but also just with MrsVan and I.

We did have some time together this past weekend and we did lunch together, but it was completely spur of the moment as MrsVan has a hair appointment and I wasn't going, so our friend came to pick me up and we just spent the afternoon running around and we did have lunch together. Key here is that her husband was away traveling for the weekend and now I get the idea that he has no idea that we did this.

Then we invited her over for dinner on Sunday. Again not a huge deal as we do this quiet frequently when her husband is out of town. She shows up and is a great mood. We have a wonderful dinner with all our kids and are just sitting around having some wine, watching tv and just idle chit chat. Then her husband calls and it became quiet clear that he was finding out for the first time that she was having dinner at our place. Once she got off the phone her mood took a 180 turn and she became very agitated and left shortly thereafter.

I then checked in about our lunch plans for tomorrow and she indicated that she couldn't make it now. She said she forgot about it and that since we had lunch this past weekend she didn't think we where still doing lunch tomorrow.

I dropped her an email to explain how I preceive things and that I feel like our friendship has changed. I told her that I am going to stop bugging her about it and that if she ever feels like she wants to discuss what is going on, that either MrsVan or myself are always here for her or them and willing to listen. I said that while I would really like to understand what has happened, I am resigned to the fact that I will most likely never know.

At this point, unless she comes clean with what is going on, this friendship is moving to a different, and I guess more "normal" relationship. I won't be sending her any text messages just to talk and I won't be flirting with her anymore. I won't be looking to see if she wants to get away for lunch or anything else. Yup things are pretty much going to suck during this transition period, but somehow I have to figure out how to deal with it.

Thanks all for listening and for offering up suggestions, but like I said, it looks like I'll never know.

-Van

[Edison Carter]

Susan here-- Relationships do contemporize, over time. When they change, one person, in this case you, tries to explore the possible reasons. Sometimes the most difficult thing to accept is that there are no reasons. Moreover, seeking reasons can cause the vary problems you were trying to avoid. Often friendships are like elastic, they expand and contract, often due to reasons that are never clear. Yes, it's unfortunate, yet just let it ride for now and always treat her well. Let the next overture be hers and be very, very, very patient. I've gone through this myself and any way you slice it, it hurts.

[Sunswept]

Wow, sound like things in general have been really rough on you, and to have a friend drop out like that is really harsh.

Sounds like something is going on in your friends life (maybe with her husband) you have no control over and for some reason she can't share any of that with you. Could be she herself is at a loss.

I had a really good friend drop out like that last November, I sent emails and texts, IM etc, asking what was going on, but got back short "I'm OK", or "I'm really busy now" type replys. I eventually sent her a message saying I sensed something big must be going on and I would give her some space. I said it was getting to the point I felt like I could be bothering her, and I would fade out and to write when she wanted. More time went by,then mid Feburary she sent me an email saying that I was not bothering her, she could not bear not hearing from me, that she was so drained she did not know what to say. She was really ill, having a shitstorm at work... she was holding it all in and just let it all loose when it got too rough to take anymore.

I did somethng like that myself when my partner passed away, her mother who I was very close to also passed away a week later. It was too much of a shock for me, after the smoke of the immediate aftermath cleared I felt like a wounded cat and just wanted to crawl under the house and stay there. Which I essentially did. The world made no sense, I was in shock, and had no idea what to say to ANY of my close friends, so I sort of went into seclusion. They got worried, but I just could not face dealing with them or anyone. It passed eventually -the world started to fell real again, and thank God they were not too pissed off I did that, and they understood. I have superb friends, bless them all.

All you can do is hold space for your friend, and give her space. I have a hunch when the time is right, she might open up to both you and MrsVan. Or maybe like Susan says things will just change for good.

But you can always hold space for her, the way we do for special sunsets and sunrises.