Anger: Repressing my sexual needs to accomodate my wife

[WishingHub]

Hello everyone,

I've been a long-time lurker, the usual first-time, long-time as they say on talk radio. I have had a growing interest in swinging/hotwifing, probably for the last 2 years or so.

I told my wife of this desire about a year ago and she basically said no way, no how, never, nada - you get the picture.

We've been together since high school and are now almost 40. Two kids, nice suburban life, comfortable, etc. She stays home with the kids and they certainly dominate her time.

Our sex life has mellowed, as expected, but my wife is very passive in bed and has no desire to push boundaries. She was a bit more adventuresome in the past, but she has been "mommified". Anything new I bring up is a basic no. On occasion I push things, and she sometimes grudgingly tolerates it. For instance, I have always wanted to lick her from behind - no way, no, no, etc. Last night I just said fuck it and did it while she was on her stomach. She didn't stop me and seemed to enjoy it - and then she bitched me out today for doing it.

I get the whole comfort level/boundaries thing. I guess you might say, "well, if you did, you wouldn't have tried that." Fair enough, but I am sick of repressing my needs to accommodate her vision of what sex should be, with little to no corresponding reciprocation on her part.

I am full of anger about this and other things along these lines. Dildos were tried once, and they were too cold and not comfortable Anal will never happen. No swallowing, occasional porn (for my benefit), no sharing of her fantasies (she has none), occasional sex (when she is in the mood, which is at best once per week - otherwise forget it. And for a week before and after her period she is asexual, with a pity blowjob occasionally thrown in). And of course, no swinging.

I don't know what to do. I think part of my desire to swing has to do with desire for greater frequency of sex. It's not an intimacy thing at all - and I do really want to see her with someone else - that's my particular kink.

We do talk, and I have broached the topic of sexual frequency in the past a few times. She acknowledges this and sex increases for a time, then things revert. I jack off at least once a day, and find myself on the internet more and more at the usual sites. I'm honestly starting to think we're just becoming incompatible sexually, even though when we do have sex it is fun as long as I behave.

The non-sexual aspects of our relationship are great and she is an unbelievably good mother. But my slow burn is really starting to get to me.

So, board members, I'm looking for advice - am I ridiculously petulant? Should I "man up" and live with the situation as it stands because that's part of the marriage, even though it appears to me that I'm the one making full concessions and she is comfortably saying "no, no, and no"? Do I try to find release in some other manner, i.e., maintain the daily masturbation? Thoughts?

[Rackir]

Hiya Wishing, welcome to the board.

I wish I had some words of wisdom or helpful advice for you here, but by your description you and your wife have a very basic compatibility issue going. From what you say she sounds firm in her sexual wants and needs, and unfortunately those do not match up with yours. So often people think that sexual compatibility isnt a big deal. That if one person is happy with occasion sex of the plain Jane vanilla style, and the other has more exotic appetites, that the other should just contain themselves and be happy for what they have. But the fact is that it is a big deal, and it's one that ruins more marriages than anything else aside from money. It's so important for people to be honest with themselvs first about what they want sexually, and then be honest with their partner about both what they want, and how important it is to them early on in relationships. But you now find yourself in that least enviable position of feeling unfulfilled.
I say this not to make you feel worse, but just to let you know that what you are going through is serious, and your feelings of anger are actually to be expected while you figure out how to handle it.

So the question becomes, how important is this subject to you? If you know the answer to that, does your wife know how important it is to you, and what the conflict is doing to you? You said that you two have talked about sexual frequency, but have you expressed to her your feelings of boredom (if I am right in calling them that)? Does she have any desire to broaden her sexual horizons, and if so, what exactly is holding her back? If not, can she at least understand that you do, and is she willing to talk about ways that you might satisfy (or at least quell) some of those needs within her comfort range?

There are honestly millions of things that can be factoring into the situation you find yourself in, very few of which anyone who does not have access to both of you can really understand. You said she's been momified, does she still feel sexy? It may be something as simple (hah, like anything dealing with people and behavior is ever simple) as helping her re-find her self esteem as a sexual being to bring her out of her shell. Or it may be something far more complex.

I'd say to talk to her, honestly and frankly, it probably wont be easy but it does need to be done. Find a time when she will be receptive to really listening to what you have to say, and explain to her your level of frustration with your current sex life. See what she may have to contribute. After that, give serious thought to pursuing marriage counseling. Your feelings of frustration are not uncommon, but by the snap-shot of your life that you have given us, it may take some serious work to resolve.

I truly hope you find what you are looking for.


Edit- Oh yeah, and keep up with the daily masturbation, if nothing else, its a good stress relief.

[lizandtom]

Originally Posted by WishingHub

She was a bit more adventuresome in the past, but she has been "mommified". Anything new I bring up is a basic no. On occasion I push things, and she sometimes grudgingly tolerates it.

Was her level of sexual exploration before having kids on par with what interests you now, or have you always just expected that things would 'really' heat up over time, the more you two are together? The reason I ask this is twofold; 1. if you enjoyed the level of sex and exploration you guys had before you had kids, then you need to tell her that you miss 'the real her,' but 2. if you always were expecting more than she was capable of and reciprocated sexually, then you may just have been fooling yourself all these years that you were going to get something that just wasn't in the cards, and maybe you were enamored with her looks or social skills or something other than sexual prowess; i.e. trophy wife syndrome.

I can tell you after frank discussions between us about friends whose sex lives have become non existent after kids, that once a woman becomes a mom she loses a sense of being; who she was and what her purpose is. She goes from being Mrs. WishingHub to the WishingHub kids mother in her mind. Unfortunately this all too often puts extraordinary strain on a marriage, and many times leads to infidelity.

A first step, through discussion, is to have her come about and realize that you two were a couple first, and parents second, and that you two need to do more as a couple, just the two of you. I hear of many people doing a weekly 'date night,' or setting aside time just for the two of you to be away from the kids and enjoy each others company. Have her realize that the kids will survive just fine with the sitter or your parents or whoever is available to mind them.

Make it a regular thing; it will cost you some cash regularly, but if you can infiltrate the notion that life is short, you treasure her and value her every thought, then while you guys are out chatting over drinks or somewhere, maybe then she will open up and can take the lead over what she wants, desires and may be interested in from a fantasy point of view.

[ncmd_couple]

WishingHub,

Welcome to the Swinger's Board!

Having been there and lived through your situation, I'm not going to try to give you any advice. If advice is what you are seeking, I suggest you seek a professional counselor.

But, I will give you some food for thought anyway. I am going to make a few assumptions, you can always correct those assumptions:

1. You still love your wife, and she loves you.
2. Your relationship besides sex is sound and satisfying.
3. Your life together is satisfying other than the sex.

As the others have said, motherhood is an all consuming thing, and quite frankly, if your still having good, if not adventurous, sex once a week, consider yourself lucky! It could be a whole lot worse!

Women often get completely consumed with rearing your children, and as they get older the burden on her grows with all of the outside activities. That becomes her focus. The other aspects of your relationship seem to be good.

Talk to your wife about how life was before kids and how much fun you had together. Talk to her about how nice it will be for the two of you to once again enjoy your freedom after the kids are gone. Talk about the things that they two of you would like to do, travel, sights to see, things to do. You will still be young and able to go and do and enjoy each other. Put that spark of the future into her and your minds. Find the things that you two have in common and fan that spark into a warm glow.

In my situation, my ex-wife and I had nothing in common except the kids. Once I realized that there was no future for the two of us, and the kids were grown, I pulled the plug on the relationship. It was over anyway.

Ooops.... I wound up giving advice anyway! But what I am saying is that if everything else is good, focus on that for right now, in a blink of an eye the kids will be gone and then you can chase her naked through the house and have sex in the back yard.

Good luck!

S

[qreskupl7476]

Been there done that myself, and found that the situation sort of fixed itself once the kids started getting older. Not trying to give you false hope, but it worked for us. We went through a stage where we had little in common, and were "too busy" to take time just for each other. As a result, our sex life dwindled to a slow crawl and we found ourselves basically "tolerating" each other.

After our kids started approaching their teenage years, we found that they began building lives of their own, and becoming less dependent on us. As a result we found ourselves with more time on our hands and started using that time to pay more attention to each other. With more time for romance, it wasn't long before the sex started to heat back up as well, and is now hotter than it ever was.

We shudder now to think how close we came to drifting away from each other, and we thank our lucky stars that we turned things around before it was too late. We love our kids, and we'll miss them when they go out on their own, but we're also looking forward to how much more time and effort we'll be able to invest in our relationship with each other when that happens.

A relationship is work. We didn't always believe that, but we do now. When one person starts working, it isn't unusual for others to join in and help out. I don't know which one of us started putting forth the effort first, but it doesn't matter. One of us did, and the other one followed. It's amazing how far a dozen roses or a home cooked meal can go toward saying "I love you" and meaning it. Not because you think you'll get something in return, but because you WANT to, that's the beautiful part, when it comes natural for both of you.

I can't tell you how to get to that point brother, but I CAN tell you that 5 years ago I was in your shoes, and now I'm not. If nothing else, you have my sympathy, because there were a lot of unhappy years that I lived through wondering if I was wasting my life or not. Now I know that it was all worthwhile. Here's wishing you the same.

[bbarnsworth]

First and foremost, hang in there.

Marriage isn't to be taken lightly, especially with kids involved. You have a duty to that marriage, one you swore to. What are you if you can't honor that? What are you to your kids if you can't honor that? What will your kids suffer if you back off from your commitment to them?

That said, your situation involves a great deal of suffering. I am not, could not, and would never minimize what you are going through. I had a taste of it when my wife was pregnant with our second child. Her sex drive absolutely disappeared. It kind of terrified me. We weren't swingers yet, and I thought we were going to have a sexless marriage. We didn't have sex for about seven months. It was a form of hell. She obliged me with blow jobs now and then, but there really wasn't any full on intimacy to it. She wasn't into it, though she happened to get better at it I was soooooooooo happy when her sex drive started coming back. Before that, it was actively unpleasant for her to have sex.

You have a great many options that do not involve cheating or leaving your wife. Explore all of them. Have patience. Communicate. KEEP those lines of communication open, not just every now and then. About EVERYthing. Counseling could help, for you and maybe for both of you. Regular masturbation can help. It helped me. Plying the Internet for porn didn't help, and it felt empty. What I wanted was a complete relationship with my wife, and I didn't feel it was complete without sex. Masturbation helped keep me from going crazy. It didn't help my feeling that we had a less than complete relationship.

My wife knew it was a problem, and I stayed openly communicative with her. I never suggested having sex with someone else (didn't even cross my mind to be honest). She tried, she really did.

Stay focused on your marriage and your family. It's worth it.

Which county in Connecticut? I was born in Danbury, and grew up in Fairfield County.

[VegasLee]

First off, this Lifestyle is no place for angry people. This lifestyle will not fix your problems or your relationship.

I personally think the best thing you can do for your relationship is turn off the computer, stop surfing porn and swinging web sites.

Tell your wife that you love her if you still do and tell her that you two need to get some counseling about this problem you two have. Yes, the two of you have it. You want one thing, she wants something else. Does not make either of you wrong but you will not last if you two keep heading different directions.

You are heading down a dangerous path right now. You are looking to "us" for advise and we don't even know you or your wife. You need advise from someone that has a clue what you two are really about. Someone that hears both sides of the story, not just yours. Someone that might be able to point you two in the right direction to make for a better relationship.

I hope you get serious about wanting to have the relationship you both can live with. Right now your not.

Good luck to you.

[PB&J]

I have been the wife in this situation. It was no fun for me either, believe me, with a husband going around feeling sorry for himself all the time. Here's the truth: I lost interest in sex because sex with him became boring and humdrum, with the same old routine every time. And he always seemed to feel that it was my fault that it was boring and humdrum, and my responsibility to change my sexual wants/needs to make him excited about sex with me again. He wanted me to watch porn with him to "get ideas" and when I didn't want to accused me of being close-minded and a prude. Honey, I've been swinging happily for two years now and I STILL don't enjoy watching porn.

What I wanted: more attention outside of the bedroom. Physical, emotional, friendly attention. Ummm... ROMANCE. AND An acknowledgement that my point of view on the whole thing was valid. That it wasn't ME inflicting the situation on HIM. What I got: He had an affair to have fun sex. It almost destroyed our marriage. Luckily, we were able to pull back from the brink and rediscover each other but I do not recommend it as the way to go.

You may feel hard-done by here, but I bet she's not too happy about it either. You two need to talk, and not make it a "this is what YOU'VE done to ME". Rather, it should be, okay, how do WE get out of where we are in this relationship, and make it fun again?

[Rackir]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

Tell your wife that you love her if you still do and tell her that you two need to get some counseling about this problem you two have. Yes, the two of you have it. You want one thing, she wants something else. Does not make either of you wrong but you will not last if you two keep heading different directions.

Succinctly and perfectly put!

[Alura]

Was it Dale Carnegie who advised "Give honest and sincere appreciation" in his book, How to Win Friends and Influence People? No matter. The same theory can be used to improve communication in marriage.

The next time y'all have a discussion about your marital challenges, take time afterward to say, "Sweetheart, I just want you to know that I've been very concerned about this. I want you to know that I'm grateful to you for taking time to listen to what I have said and for trying to understand how I feel. Thank you!"

Flowers are important to wives, but not if they're offered as bribes. Instead of bringing home flowers hoping it will encourage her to have sex with you, start giving her flowers the next day in appreciation for the sex (or anything else... a good dinner, filling the gas tank, mowing the lawn, doing a good job with the kid's birthday party...). Mainly, give honest and sincere appreciation for the things she does. She'll start reciprocating.

Do something especially nice for her when you feel y'all're making good progress with your discussions.

Get rid of the anger. It's your fault as much as hers and it's been building up for years. As long as y'all are pissed off at each other, the situation will not improve.

I have written the following so many times on this board I'm sure the old timers are sick of it, but here I go again... On our second date, Mrs. Alura and I made an agreement that we would never become angry because a question was asked, we would do our best to answer it honestly and completely, and that "I don't want to talk about it!" was never acceptable. We held to this promise for the thirty years we were together, had fewer arguments than can be counted on the fingers of one hand, but had many, many honest and sincere discussions.

Kiss her and say "I love you" at least five times per day and make sure your kisses last at least ten seconds. It may take time to build up the kissing time, especially if you've developed the habit of quick pecks like many couples do, but it will eventually become the norm. You want to avoid passionate kissing only when y'all have sex.

If y'all ever get around to swinging (or anything of great importance to you) up the ante on the appreciation. Perhaps a gift of earrings made with her favorite semi-precious stones.

Keep us updated on y'all's progress. The folks on this board really care.

Mr. Alura

[PB&J]

Alura, your advice is exactly what my husband needed back around 2000- and didn't get. Listen to him, WishingHub.

[Alura]

Thank you, PB&J. You're sweet!


Mr. Alura

[NCfuncouple98]

Long before swinging was in our discussions, our "mommified" sex was a discussion. It had become regular, routine, and lackluster. I (Mrs. NC), on my own, bought a book and I wish I remembered the exact title but it was a couple that took the challenge to have sex every day for 100 days straight, because they were in the same rut. That book really started us on a path of opening up sexually. The hard part for you is if you buy the book for her, she may take it the wrong way.

My point is you have to take small steps, and swinging is definitely not anywhere close to steps 1,2,3.... Discussing swinging maybe around step 55.

Date nights, dancing, flowers, true open discussions with no resentment or anger. Listening to each other, pouring your hearts out, talking til 5am..... It's those intimacies that may be lost in the depths of parenthood right now, and you have to find a way to work them back into your marriage.

Get swinging out of your head, for now. Until the two of you are on a more level playing field, it will only cause hurt, harm, and regret.

Good luck!

Mrs. NC

PS - wrote the above before reading Alura's post. Wow, he's got some amazing advice there!!! Take it to heart and see what you can do with it. I always found the most romantic things about Mr NC to be the little things - he pours my coffee every day, he starts my car (when cold), he packs my laptop up for me....He never leaves the house without kissing me goodbye... Like I said above - you need to add the little things back into your marriage that really mean a lot over time. I do hope you will stick around and share with us.

[WishingHub]

All,

Thank you for the thoughtful responses. It was cathartic to actually "voice" my frustrations when I posted last night. There's so much in the various responses, and I have to chew on things for a while but I truly appreciate the advice.

I plan on trying to begin to broach the subject, away from any swinging, etc., just to once again get some type of common ground with regard to our sexual relationship. As I think I mentioned, I have tried this in the past and despite some of the assumptions in some of the responses I am not 'completely' petulant and selfish. The basic question is, how does a couple compromise on diametrically opposed views? It's not possible, so the subject is dropped - and by dropping the subject "my side" has implicitly been shot down.

An early response asked about our pre-kids sex life. As you might imagine, we had hot, wild, fun sex, but nothing too kinky. The basic parameters of her desire actually have not changed very much, while mine have. In that respect, I have 'gotten kinkier', and through no fault of my wife she has not taken that same path. Someone suggested shutting down the porn/swinger site surfing, which may make a lot of sense. There's a certain 'slippery slope' to all this, and it's likely true that my sexual tastes/kinks have been influenced by the ease and availablity of some pretty hardcore stuff that's out there.

So, suffice it to say I am confused as you all might have already guessed. There's no doubt in my mind that I love her and the kids and I take my responsibilities very seriously. I have no desire to cheat. The swinging thing in some sense can be thought of as 'legal' cheating, but having read all the various posts here and elsewhere I can see how a truly-on-the-same-page couple could get an immense sexuality/intimacy boost with it. I agree that anything in that realm is step 55 or later when we are at step -1 right now.

Anyway, thanks again to all and I will post more when the talks occur.

[knb2004]

I am a little hesitant to respond to this at all. However, except for two (admittedly major) points, 6 or 8 years ago, I could have written your post. I don't think I'm going to try to give advice, just tell a bit of my story.

Except for the part about kids, and the relationship outside the bedroom being generally good, your story was my story. After 9/11, I realized that anyone of us could check out of this rock at any moment, and realized that my marriage was not only a sexual disaster, I was essentially going to bed every night hoping that tomorrow would be better, only to awaken the next day and discover it never was. It took me awhile to steel my resolve, but I finally did and in the spring of 2004 I packed my bags and I hit the road.

One (of many, many) problems in my marriage was that I has aspirations of being a swinger, and she thought I was the most depraved, disgusting, sick and twisted individual the world has ever known for even thinking about such a thing, much less actually bringing it up in conversation. As I gained experience as a human being, I realized that I had ALWAYS had such thoughts, but it was only until I reached a certain maturity level that I was able to admit it to even myself, much less my partner. It's also true that even without conflict about this subject, our sex lives generally sucked. The last full year of our marriage, we had sex about 6 times, and usually she was drunk beyond recognition (disclaimer: I drink, frequently, and have no philosophical or moral objection to it, but when you routinely pass out on the floor, there is a problem).

About six months later I "met" the wonderful woman who is now Mrs. knb. I put met in quotes because we had sort-of known each other through an online forum we both participated in, but it wasn't until I decided to move that it became possible for us to meet in person. Turns out there was a spark there, that lit a flame that is burning brightly to this day. BUT, before we even became serious about pursuing any possible relationship, I made it very clear that I had no interest in monogamy, and that if she wasn't comfortable with that, it was best we not waste each others time. Well, she was, and the rest as they say, is history. Now, many here would recommend against making swinging a part of such a young relationship, but it worked for us, and frankly I can't see waiting for a relationship to mature to make such an announcement as statistically speaking most would not take it well.

So, after my long winded story, what's my advice? I honestly don't know.

If you had said that your relationship sucked outside the bedroom, I'd certainly advise you to do as I did and move on. But it doesn't, and that is such a large difference from the position I was in, especially when combined with children, that I don't know if that's good advice. OTOH, if you truly are a swinger in your heart, and she is not, I really don't know if that combination has any chance of success. Our relationship is fantastic, both in and out of the bedroom, my prior marriage was a disaster both in and out of the bedroom. When you've got one out of two? Dunno, never been there.

Regardless, your primary responsibility is to your kids, even if you plan to move on. I'm not saying stay together for them, as I believe kids would rather have happy separate parents than miserable ones who are together. But you do have a responsibility to take care of them first, and you second.