My name is Trina. My husband Tom and I have been swinging for the last 5 years. We typically play together although he is a pilot so he's gone a lot and sometimes we play seperately as well. We've both agreed this is ok, so long as everything is open and honest.
Recently, he was transferred to an overseas flight that keeps him away from home for days at a time. This is something that neither of us are used to as he hasn't been on an overseas flight since we first got together. We actually met when I was on his crew on an overseas flight. At the time he was in a relationship with someone else, but all the time we spent together in the air and overseas we developed feelings for each other and ended up getting together. I know it wasn't the best start for our relationship but we've worked through it and agreed that open and honest is the only way to be, so that those past errors don't get repeated. Or so I thought.
Just after he took this new flight we talked and I thought we had agreed that he wasn't going to play with anymore crew. This has kinda already gotten him in trouble once and it's what got him transferred off of his last flight (even though the transfer was a bit of a promotion really). I thought he understood that I was really worried about where this might lead, especially on the overseas flight, since that's where we started.
This week, when he was overseas I called his room and a stewardess answered. I have to admit I was a bit worried already as this wasn't the first time since he's taken this new route that something odd happened when I called. When he got home it was like there was a space between us and to make matters worse before I even got to greet him he had invited the entire crew over for a pool party without even asking me. I had no choice but to confront him, so I asked him point blank, "Did you sleep with her". He admitted that he had "slipped". He pointed out that we had played with her together in the past and she had been on our list of people it was ok for him to play with alone. He just didn't get it.
I was so mad that I wanted to just hurt him back and I told him I was going to go sleep with his co-pilot and quickly went to find him and make out with him. I know it was childish, but I was hurt and he just didn't seem to understand why. In the end I didn't sleep with his co-pilot because I realize that two wrongs don't make a right. But, I really don't know what to do. I don't know if I can trust him when he's away. We've agreed to stop swinging for a while, but I'm just not sure he will. He admitted to me that he wouldn't have even told me what happened if I hadn't asked. I'm scared and hurt. Any advice would be appreciated.
Since the "Stew" he partied with was on a list of people that it was Ok for him to party with I don't see that he really stepped out of line with the rules you stated. You did not state if when playing alone that you have to give full details of the event to the other.
Talking to him was a good idea since there was something on your mind. Trying to use his Co-Pilot as a toy to get revenge was childish and has no place in adult life or this Lifestyle.
Since you have now talked and agreed to take a break, give the break a chance. You are predetermining the out come by thinking he is going to play anyway. Why invite trouble if it is not there yet?
Keep the lines of communication open and talk about it more before he leaves on his next trip but don't do it in a confronting manner. Talk in an respectful adult manner and be sure you both understand this is not Jr. High games here, you are talking about your relationship.
Hi "Trina" ! Taking a break for a while is probably a good idea when you hit rough waters. Follow that up with lots of communication and by defining some new rules of play which you're both comfortable with. Maybe you can travel with him once a month and have some fun overseas. Try to have some fun with each other reconnecting and see where things go from there.
We agree with what Vegas Lee said. We would also like to add that implying or thinking that you’re SO understands your meaning to hints being dropped is NOT the same thing as explaining in detail where you are coming from. Too often people drop subtle hints or make vague suggestions, thinking their partner will understand their meaning. Then get very upset when they don't. Nothing can replace honest open communication. Are you sure you communicated your feelings about things and TALKED to him about how you feel the both of you should move forward in regard to the Lifestyle? Are you both on the same page, or are you assuming that since you made comments about it, that he is picking up on what you want? Have you ask him what he is thinking and how he feels about how things are going? Have you ask him how he thinks the two of you should handle the overseas trips and how things need to be handled with your open relationship? Or are you just reacting to your fears and expect him to read your mind on what is going on.
This one's a little bit muddled since she was on the list and you and Tom have played with her in the past. But, that is superceded by the most recent agreement of no more playing with the crew, which as you point out, can cause problems in more ways than one. Your husband is doing some selective recall on what the rules are, and that's a big problem. His inviting the crew over for a party without asking is also disrespectful of you.
His problem may be just not thinking things through and how they will affect you before he impulsively acts. But given the long periods away from home with the crew, and your own history as a couple, you may need to reevaluate as a couple whether swinging is really for you given the current circumstances. The answer is probably no.
You did the right thing by not playing with the co-pilot. That only would have made things worse and lessened your credibility on what you are saying is the problem.
[We] agreed that open and honest is the only way to be, so that those past errors don't get repeated. Or so I thought.
Just after he took this new flight we talked and I thought we had agreed that he wasn't going to play with anymore crew. This has kinda already gotten him in trouble once...
This week, when he was overseas I called his room and a stewardess answered. I have to admit I was a bit worried already as this wasn't the first time since he's taken this new route that something odd happened when I called....I had no choice but to confront him, so I asked him point blank, "Did you sleep with her". He admitted that he had "slipped".
He admitted to me that he wouldn't have even told me what happened if I hadn't asked.
I think it's clear that he understood the rules and he chose to break them; he admitted that he "slipped" and that he wouldn't have told you if you hadn't asked him. His actions were not open or honest. If you hadn't confronted him he'd have kept it a secret.
He's now in a place he used to be where he cheated (traveling overseas for days), when you and he began your relationship. He's away without you and his old habit pattern has returned. Cheating has a different feel and excitement level than swinging and he may find it's something he doesn't want to give up. Time will tell.
Trusting him is not going to be easy; you'll have to watch for signs that he's breaking the rules. If he decides to continue slipping up he's going to try extra hard to hide it from you.
You seem level-headed and have communicated with your husband about how you feel. He knows the score. You're at a point where you'll have to wait and see if he values your marriage more than cheating. You're both experienced swingers, enough to know what works and doesn't in swinging. Your decision to not swing for a while is wise. It will give you time to sort this recent event out and to rediscover the commitment you have sans swinging.
Keep talking. I think there is more for you to learn about what's on your husband's mind and what motivates his behavior.
Good luck. Please keep us posted on how things develop.
A couple of people have sort of beat around this bush, but nobody said it bluntly: He's not a mind reader, don't expect him to be one.
Implying that you don't want him to do things when traveling is like making a comment that "We're completely out of toilet paper." and then being upset that he didn't immediately jump and go to the store to get some. You didn't ask him to!
While you're on your break, which I hope doesn't last more than one episode, make sure you both are 100% on the same page regarding your rules and expectations. Don't hint, imply, or hope, tell him what your expectations are, make him tell you what his are, compromise when you can, and be totally open and upfront about everything.
PS... Where I'm from when swingers have pool parties, there tend to be naked people running around the pool. Food for thought...
My name is Trina. My husband Tom and I have. . . We actually met when . . . At the time he was in a relationship with someone else, but all the time we spent together in the air and overseas we developed feelings for each other and ended up getting together. I know it wasn't the best start for our relationship . . . and [we] agreed that open and honest is the only way to be . . . "
To quote some "Bumper Sticker Psychologists", "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you!"
Good luck, of course. But don’t waste your life fantasizing that this leopard is going to change to strips! At the risk of sounding like an unsympathetic hard-ass, “live and learn”. You were obviously ready to be mature, grow-up and get on with the life of a married adult. One of the main things that separates adults from the less mature is not “age” as much as it is their willingness to make sound commitments and then honor them. I’m afraid you probably left your fly-boy back on the runway!
I'm so glad you found this board! Stick around and read the archives here, you will learn a lot. I know that you're new to the Internet, but save this in Favorites and read, read, read! Bring Tom to the board and read this together. You will both read many things that will help you ask each other questions and sort things out. Even very experienced, very classic swingers like you could use help.
You and Tom do communicate, but you could both do a better job. I think that Tom needs to try to be more in tune with how you are feeling. You did make it clear when he started the Tokyo route that you were concerned that history would repeat itself, and you told him that you were afraid of losing him. As a swinger and a husband, he should have realized that you were opening up and being vulnerable. He should call you often and assure you of what he's doing and how he feels about you. Under the current circumstances and knowing how you are feeling, I would expect him to know to be as sensitive and respectful of you as possible.
Since he was being thoughtless (at best) with inviting the whole crew over for a pool party without speaking to you first, and having "slipped" with a stewardess (former playmate or not, he still should have checked under the current circumstances), please continue to talk to him about what you really need in your relationship. Tell him you need for him to talk to you more before just acting on impulse. He needs to think with the "big" head.
I loved it when you showed him that favorite picture you'd taken of him laying in bed, and saying to him, "This is what I really want" (just him). If he doesn't get that, he's being dense. Again, please bring him to these boards and ask him to read all our responses....and keep on talking and listening to each other.
Good luck, and please let us know how it goes!
P.S. - If by chance things don't work out between you in the long run, make sure you get the house. That is one kick-ass house!
WELCOME to the Swingersboard, Trina. Letting Tom know that you watch him and can be jealous will send the message to him that you want to keep him. Your attempt to hurt him was understandable but, as you said, not right. This is just a bump in the road. Continue to talk; continue to watch.
Continue to talk to him about it. Continue to let him know that you're scared and worried. I don't think Tom really and truly understood just how worried you are. I'm glad you stopped the tit-for-tat play, because I think Tom started it. I think he was feeling a little bit insecure because of your old boyfriend's visit, and therefore started looking at Bobbi as a way to assure himself that he's still got it. (I know you didn't talk about that in your thread, but trust me, I've been a fly on the wall at your house...I know)
I think you're doing the right thing by taking a step back from swinging. I also think the two of you really need to evaluate whether this promotion is really worth it for the two of you right now. Sure, it's a great opportunity, but at what cost?
Good for you for not giving in to the temptation to play with the copilot to get back at Tom. That would only have made your situation worse. As for what Tom did, I'm not sure he completely understands why you're upset with him. He seems to feel that since the stewardess was on the list of "okay to play with" people, then he wasn't out of bounds. However, if the deal is that you tell each other about each encounter, then he did "slip"--the part I think he does know was wrong. Sounds like this is primarily a communication issue, since you're experienced swingers and have gotten on well until recently. You two have a lot more talking to do, and I think your decision to take swinging off the table right now is a smart one. Until you get things sorted out and both feel more secure with each other and what your boundaries are, you need some time just the two of you.