Swingtown: Give It Up for Love - Theme Song

[sexychoclit]

During the opening credits of Swingtown you hear the song and the words "giving it up for love" .

My question is this, what does love have to do with swinging? In listening to the song, one might think that people swing because they love their partner.

As a single female, I tend to think that if people were really in love, then what they have at home should be enough.

Don't get me wrong, being in the lifestyle is great (for the most part, no relationship is perfect) and if it weren't for married couples, I probably wouldn't have the type of fun that I do. But I am very interested in hearing what others think about this topic.

P.S. Please don't yell at me.

[JustAskJulie]

I think your thoughts are the reasons why many couples do not feel the singles are really swingers. Personally, I believe that some singles can be swingers and those singles are the ones who do get it, and that "it" is that yes love is involved. The fact that you look at swinging the way you do completely disrespects any couple you might consider playing with and implies that they don't really love each other because they want more sexually than just each other. That attitude would prevent us (and many other couples) from ever playing with you out of the fear that you don't respect our committment (since you don't really believe it exists).

That said, what does love have to do with swinging? Everything. For a couple to have a successful relationship and swing there has to be complete love and trust. They have to know that the love they share with each other is enough to overcome anything, and they have to love each other enough to want their partner to experience every fantasy and desire that they have, and to share those fantasies and desires with them.

[Nudesailing]

wow Julie, very well written and we agree completely.......

[JustMrJ]

Chalk up another point on Julie's Awsome-Meter... (patent pending)

[Thrax]

I like the logic of your post, Julie, but I want to add an alternative bit of reasoning.

In poetry and music lyrics (singable poetry) love is often, more than just occasionally, used as a synonym for sex. That has been done by singers or songwriters for hundreds of years. But, anyone who knows just a little more than the basics of the English language knows that the two words are not the same.

As one of hundreds of examples, "Love to Love You Baby" was Donna Summer's first big hit in America, reaching #2 on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart in early 1976. (About the time when Swingtown is set.) From Wikipedia: "The song was branded 'graphic' by some music critics and was even banned by some radio stations for its explicit content. Time magazine reported that 22 orgasms were simulated in the making of the song, and some of the music press dubbed Summer 'the first lady of love.'" Donna was singing about sex. Although love might have been a component of that sex, it's difficult to think, by listening to the song, that it is a "love" song.

Also remember that less than a decade before Summer's hit, there were "Make Love, Not War" posters appearing at rallies, on college campuses, and in other venues. Was that slogan really about the peaceful aspects of love, or doing "it" rather than fighting? I'm not sure.

Additionally, the "Give it Up for Love" theme song from Swingtown was written by Liz Phair, I'm pretty sure. After hearing a lot of her music, I think that if she is the composer, she is VERY well aware of the differences in meaning of the two terms, but also knows how the terms are used in music and poetry, in the past and now.

William Shakespeare wrote, "If music be the food of love; play on." June Masters Bacher: "Love is like a violin. The music may stop now and then, but the strings remain forever." And Friedrich Nietzsche is quoted, "In music the passions enjoy themselves."

Love and sex. Sex or love.

Enjoy yourselves.

Thrax

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Thrax

I like the logic of your post, Julie, but I want to add an alternative bit of reasoning.

In poetry and music lyrics (singable poetry) love is often, more than just occasionally, used as a synonym for sex. That has been done by singers or songwriters for hundreds of years. But, anyone who knows just a little more than the basics of the English language knows that the two words are not the same.

While that's an interesting take on the idea behind the meaning of the song itself, and if you took the song to mean "give it up for sex", it adds a completely different dimension to things. But that wasn't the question that the sexychoclit asked with the original post....

Originally Posted by sexychoclit

As a single female, I tend to think that if people were really in love, then what they have at home should be enough.

Don't get me wrong, being in the lifestyle is great (for the most part, no relationship is perfect) and if it weren't for married couples, I probably wouldn't have the type of fun that I do. But I am very interested in hearing what others think about this topic.

[sexychoclit]

Thank you Thrax for your insightful reply. I never looked at music in the way in which you have described. But it makes perfect sense. The word "love" can be used in different ways that may not be the "love" that most people identify with.

I do find it funny that some couples in the lifestyle don't consider single people to be swingers. Especially when most posts and ads are couples who are looking for single females (the unicorns) or males. Where would the lifestyle be without single people? Especially in a community where a lot of couples complain that it is hard to find couples to get with because of a lack of attraction between the four people.

Food for thought: If a husband and wife are interested in half of another couple and ask for that person to join them in a sexual encounter, aren't they in fact asking that person to act as a "single" person? Although the other person may need to gain agreement from their spouse, it still leaves someone out of the mix. How much different is that then finding a single male or female to play with?

As a single female, it doesn't mean that I shouldn't have my own thoughts and questions about issues. And it doesn't mean that they don't deserve the same amount of respectful replies as other people who post on the site.

As far as people deciding whether or not they would want to play with me because of a question that I asked, then just like anything else, it is their right and they can make their own decisions.

I was of the opinion that people of like minds could come here and discuss varying opinions without the fear of being personally attacked.

I apologize if anyone was offended by the post, however, if you are taking it personally, then maybe you should ask yourself WHY?

[sweet_tna]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

That said, what does love have to do with swinging? Everything. For a couple to have a successful relationship and swing there has to be complete love and trust. They have to know that the love they share with each other is enough to overcome anything, and they have to love each other enough to want their partner to experience every fantasy and desire that they have, and to share those fantasies and desires with them.

I read this post last night but didn't have time to respond. But you wrote exactly what I was thinking (almost word for word, too)!

=)

[Alura]

Originally Posted by sexychoclit

I do find it funny that some couples in the lifestyle don't consider single people to be swingers. Especially when most posts and ads are couples who are looking for single females (the unicorns) or males. Where would the lifestyle be without single people? Especially in a community where a lot of couples complain that it is hard to find couples to get with because of a lack of attraction between the four people.

Without single people the lifestyle would probably still be called "wife swapping." If one calls it instead "spouse swapping," one describes what we do. We don't look for singles of either gender and haven't had a great deal of difficulty finding couples we were attracted to. Of course, we look for quality and long-term friendship, not quantity.

Food for thought: If a husband and wife are interested in half of another couple and ask for that person to join them in a sexual encounter, aren't they in fact asking that person to act as a "single" person? Although the other person may need to gain agreement from their spouse, it still leaves someone out of the mix. How much different is that then finding a single male or female to play with?

Quite different, actually. As Tom said in the last episode of Swingtown, "My wife and I are a package deal." From what I've read on this board on this subject (which has been discussed a lot!), most couples would not consider such a proposal.

Now, many couples (ourselves included) sometimes do leave one person "out of the mix" in order to have threesomes. But we do so in turns and thereby experience more combinations than could ever be provided by a single person.

As a single female, it doesn't mean that I shouldn't have my own thoughts and questions about issues. And it doesn't mean that they don't deserve the same amount of respectful replies as other people who post on the site.

You definitely do deserve respect. In my opinion, you've gotten just that. You will not, however, be assured agreement.

As far as people deciding whether or not they would want to play with me because of a question that I asked, then just like anything else, it is their right and they can make their own decisions.

Of course.

I was of the opinion that people of like minds could come here and discuss varying opinions without the fear of being personally attacked.

It seems to me that Julie disagreed with you. There was no personal attack, an infraction that has gotten more than a few banned from these forums.

I apologize if anyone was offended by the post, however, if you are taking it personally, then maybe you should ask yourself WHY?

If anything bordered on the offensive, it was your remark, "As a single female, I tend to think that if people were really in love, then what they have at home should be enough." This is a point of view often expressed by trolls and those who think what we do is "sinful." I think this remark was the reason for Julie's suggestion that you, like many singles who come here, don't quite "get it."

Julie went on to explain (in her second paragraph) just how love is important for couples in the lifestyle. She did so quite eloquently, so I won't try to add to her remarks.

Mr. Alura

[Thrax]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

...But that wasn't the question that the sexychoclit asked with the original post....

Hmmmm...you mean I'm supposed to address the specific issue(s) raised in the original post?

I'm beginning to catch on now...



Whoops!

Thrax

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by sexychoclit

Food for thought: If a husband and wife are interested in half of another couple and ask for that person to join them in a sexual encounter, aren't they in fact asking that person to act as a "single" person? Although the other person may need to gain agreement from their spouse, it still leaves someone out of the mix. How much different is that then finding a single male or female to play with?

Actually, it's quite different. When we are dealing with HALF of another couple then we know that since they are a couple also and also have the same risks that we do when it comes to their relationship, we know that they "get it" in the same way that we do. However, as I stated above when dealing with a single there is always the risk that the single doesn't quite get what a couple is risking (as you obviously don't). When I see a single (male or female) express statements like you made in your first post that you don't feel that couples who swing really love each other, that would make me feel that you do not respect us or our relationship and since you don't think we love each other anyway, what's to stop you from deciding that you are better for my husband than I am and trying to take him away? I'm not saying that you could take him away, I know for a fact that you couldn't, but just the fact of someone trying is one example of the type of drama we try to avoid.

As far as that goes, we have yet to play with a single or half of a couple and have not had any trouble finding playmates where all 4 of us matched up. It doesn't happen with every couple, but then if we played with singles it wouldn't happen with every single either. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with playing with singles, we would definately be open to a single female who understood what was involved in swinging (and that LOVE is a very big part of us for US and between US). Quite often the only singles who really do "get it" are those who have previously been in relationships that also involved swinging.

I apologize if anyone was offended by the post, however, if you are taking it personally, then maybe you should ask yourself WHY?

You didn't offend me, nor did I take your remark personally. Yes, you are welcome to your own opinions and we are welcome to disagree with them and point out where those opinions may not mesh with the lifestyle as a whole.

[good times]

Originally Posted by sexychoclit

As a single female, I tend to think that if people were really in love, then what they have at home should be enough.

It is, I have all the "love" I will ever need, or want for, at home with my wife. We swing for recreational sex, which has nothing to do with love at all. We are not looking for love from anyone else.

Originally Posted by sexychoclit

Where would the lifestyle be without single people?

Personally, no singles would have zero impact on swinging for us, as we aren't interested in singles. Swinging for us is something we only do with other couples.

[rpu3]

As a single female, I tend to think that if people were really in love, then what they have at home should be enough.

What is "enough"? Love? Sex? What is it that I, "really in love" with my spouse, am supposed to have enough of at home? I fear I'm going in a different direction because I'm truly not sure what it is that I'm supposed to have enough of at home.

As a rather independent married woman, I don't believe anyone else, single or otherwise, gets to decide what is "enough" for my or my spouse or our relationship(s). I, and perhaps The Spousal Unit, are the only ones that get to set the limit on whatever "enough" is. Personally, "enough" almost sounds like I'm expected to settle. I mean, we could take your question in a different direction - why should I have vanilla friends? Isn't my spouse my friend? Shouldn't his friendship at home be enough?

My personal response (and mine alone and NOT a personal attack just because I don't agree with your statement) is that I can do and be anything I want to be, and my marriage can be anything it wants to be. I personally am not settling for "enough" unless that's what I want and what my spouse wants. And that would be because "enough" was "enough". I am capable of enjoying all the sex and love I want, to whatever limits I and my spouse and/or partners decide and you know, our implementation of the alternative sex/relationships works for us so far. And I don't think we've lost anything at home. In fact, I feel we have a better relationship with better communication, so if anything, it's not enough - it continues to grow.

I guess I don't understand why being married has anything to do with anything - swinging, dating, friendship (vanilla or otherwise). If I were single, would it be more acceptable to seek out as much sex and the like as I want? Why does putting on a wedding band suddenly change everything? Why does that wedding band mean I have enough and I shouldn't seek anything further?

[VANudistcpl]

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. If you don't have the love and trust in a marriage, then there is no way that you sustain a marriage.

I (Mr. VAnudist) found out the hard way in my previous marriage. We entered into swinging after long discussions and thought it was only recreational sex. The love wasn't there from her side, so she went with someone else and the trust disappeared from mine.

Therefore, without the mutual love and trust in a marriage, you will not be successful in the long term.

[two42lovers]

Our main attraction to swinging is the doing things we can't do 1-on-1 - two or three couples in one bed is amazing fun. The permutations and combinations are nearly limitless. We very much prefer to play with other long term, in-love couples. (We have been married over 25 years.) Every time we play it is an act of love, because it is a sensual gift we give to each other.

I tend to think that if people were really in love, then what they have at home should be enough.

Your opinion. That's fine, but since you are asking what others think, here it is: your statement is judgemental, pretentious, and a big put-down to couples.