Another one on Jobs and Swinging

[Dave_kat]

I just got back from a shopping trip out at Wal-Mart and ran into an old friend. His wife and he are also in the lifestyle, and we've known about each other for years. Heck, the only thing that kept us from visiting with them a few times was our rule about playing with people we work with.

Well, in the military community, swinging is not uncommon. Heck, do a search on Swing Lifestyle with the zip code for the nearest town to a military base and you will find quite a few military members who have ads posted. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Anyway, they were not so.. hardlined about those rules, and were playing with couples in their unit and other closely related units. Well, accroding to him, someone got upset that they were either rebuffed or had a bad experience, and told his chain of command. He did not know he was under investigation, but the soldier's who were all at a party claimed that he and his wife were the only one's playing (so how did they have anything to do with it being adultery if it was just the 2 of them)

Well, now he has been busted down in rank (he was looking at becomming an E-7, now he's back to an E-5, a big drop in pay and other things.)

When they questioned him, they showed him copies of emails through Swing Lifestyle, which included copies of emails that we exchanged a couple of times, and questioned him as to who we were, units, etc. Lucky for everyone else involved, he played very quiet. He did specify to me that they had a picture of kat (just none of me luckily).

Not to mention, the military was either granted permission to access Swing Lifestyle for the purpose of gathering information against this person, or hacked the site.

Just thought we'd put this out there.

[menher1559]

Guess it just goes to show that it's never safe to let your guard down. It really pisses me sometimes that people are so miserable in their own lives that they must make others miserable to find happiness.

[JnCC]

That's one reason I didn't make a career of the military...too many opportunities to displease a superior, or to commit a transgression against their Middle-American moral standards.

What I didn't know at the time was that most civilian jobs aren't much different.

The thing is, I KNOW how military personell behave when they're away from home. If the "High Command" slammed EVERY service man (and woman) who "broke the rules" on extra-marital sexual behavior, we'd be left with nothing but Wal-Mart greeters flying F-18's and Boy Scouts driving M-1 tanks.

[two4youinswva]

Originally Posted by JnCC

The thing is, I KNOW how military personell behave when they're away from home.

Reminds me of the saying, when I was in the service; "What happens on TDY, stays TDY."

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by Dave_kat

Not to mention, the military was either granted permission to access Swing Lifestyle for the purpose of gathering information against this person, or hacked the site.

Just thought we'd put this out there.

Keep in mind on this part that ANYONE can access any of these sites simply by signing up. All they would have to do is create a free account and they can search the system and access profiles. How much they can see is really up to you and what you put out there, private vs. public pics, etc. I believe that Swing Lifestyle also allows you, the user, to block non-paying members from viewing your profile (but don't quote me on that).

There's really no issue of hacking or of anyone granting access to anything.

[Dave_kat]

Actually they had all of the emails, including the ones he deleted, when they went before his superior. That's either hacking or Swing Lifestyle cmoplied with this request

[JustAskJulie]

Interesting, that might be something you want to bring up over on Swing Lifestyle and see what they have to say about it. If they were hacked, I'm sure they'd want to know, I really can't see them just handing over that info without a court order.

Is it possible that whoever turned him in hacked his account and got the emails?

Originally Posted by two4youinswva

Reminds me of the saying, when I was in the service; "What happens on TDY, stays TDY."

Yup,
And that is a piss poor rule to live by. I have seen more divorces from people adopting that attitude. It doesn't work that way.

[TNT]

Another possibility is if he was using the auto-notify feature on Swing Lifestyle, it forwards a copy of the message to an e-mail account. If they investigated his home computer or if he was foolish enough to use his dot gov account there were all his emails. The Patriot Act seriously reduced your protections against surveillance so watch your ass.

Ted

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty

Yup,
And that is a piss poor rule to live by. I have seen more divorces from people adopting that attitude. It doesn't work that way.

Some people find it very difficult to maintain monogamous relationships over the long haul. Personally, I believe that contrary to "conventional wisdom" on the subject, if we're lucky we pair-bond with somebody who finds it equally difficult. That way, even if we don't agree with them on exactly how to deal with the problem, at least we are in agreement that it's a problem that must be dealt with. Swinging is one answer and works for a small percentage of people, but there are many other "avenues of release," most of which are familiar to anybody who's ever read a woman's magazine or watched television after 9 P.M.

For example, what about marriages in which one or both have long-term affairs and divorce is NOT the result? My best friend just broke off with a woman he'd been having an affair with for the last 8 years. Whenever her husband has to travel out of town with his "secretary," his wife goes on her own "trip around the world" with my friend. Both have pretty strong suspicions about what the other is doing, but continue to live in what appears to be an otherwise loving and committed marriage. Neither is pressing for details from the other, provided that some discretion is exercised in the execution. (no calls to the family home, no exposure in public or to the kids, etc.) Neither appears to have any intention of leaving the marriage. (much to my friends dismay)

On it's face, it's cheating, pure and simple. But it works for them. Is their marriage any more "dysfunctional" than a typical swinger's, just because her husband doesn't know my friends name, or the exact details of when and where he's bedding her? The majority of what this woman and her husband each need in the way of companionship, they get from their marriage. The rest, he gets from his "golf" or "business" trips, and she from her weekly liasons with her lover.

Most people aren't emotionally capable of embracing the "swingers lifestyle," and so they become liars instead. I'm not sure that's such a bad thing. But one thing I am sure of, is that however they deal with their problems, as long as it works for them, I don't pass judgement, and ask for the same consideration in return.

[Dave_kat]

Well, I'm no good at getting full quotes, but as far as the TDY, while I admit it happens, it's not something that I would choose to partake in. While in Kosovo I had plenty of oppourtunity, but I certainly chose not to. Maybe that is pair-bonding and why kat and I are so good to each other.

The Army did not even look at his own computer. This was all prepared without him even knowing it was going on, and when he found out, he went and tried to delete all the material out of Swing Lifestyle.

The problem is, under the UCMJ, they do not need a court order to do something like this. My concern with asking the admin of Swing Lifestyle is that they actually did allow the Army into the site, or forwarded the information. If so, my emailing about this profile, this case could cause me to revisit this trouble that we have already barely avoided.

Jncc,

I have been in the military 14 years and I know "What goes TDY stays TDY" means.

As soon as the plane hits the ground the guy is instantly on the prowl for a piece of ass and does not stop his quest until getting on the plane to go home no matter how many pieces of ass he has gotten. It works the same way for women except their numbers aren't quite as many.

It's one thing if the wife/husband tells the the other it is ok to play when they are out of town as long as it stays there. But to have a loving wife/husband home taking care of all the bills,house,kids and all the other shit it takes to make the world go round while the other is out getting his/her rocks off while at the same time calling home and telling his wife how well he is behaving himself is WRONG!!!

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty

I have been in the military 14 years and I know "What goes TDY stays TDY" means. As soon as the plane hits the ground the guy is instantly on the prowl for a piece of ass and does not stop his quest until getting on the plane to go home no matter how many pieces of ass he has gotten.

Wellll, yes and no. I've been in the flying business for...well, let's not go there, I'm startin' to get a little sensitive on the subject of "age"...but let's just say "it's been a while." Most of the guys I work with are ex-military. Some, and I won't try to place an exact percentage on it, but some ARE looking the minute they hit the ground. BUT...that "percentage," whatever it is, is probably not much different from any other group in their age/education/personality demographic. My personal experience has been that most guys do it once or twice, some guys do it occasionally, but very few do it all the time. When my ex- and I were active in the Lifestyle, I was damn near a "Boy Scout" on the road. It was a promise to her I made, and kept, right to the end of our marriage. I hope that brings some comfort to you girls whose husbands spend a lot of time on the road...

C'mon buddy, don't bust my chops on this "TDY" thing, OK? I'm having enough trouble trying to convince women to date me when they find out I'm a pilot...

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty

It's one thing if the wife/husband tells the the other it is ok to play when they are out of town as long as it stays there

That was my point...some couples who could NEVER bring themselves to say "it's OK," will look the other way, provided that most of their other needs are being met within the marriage. The suspected transgression doesn't even have to stay "out of town"...just keeping it "off the dinner table, out of the checkbook, and away from friends, family, and the ladies at the bridge club" is usually enough. I've worked with guys who gave their wives tacit approval to dally when they were away. One was very careful never to return early from a trip, lest he "have to kick some guys ass."

A few years ago, we saw some very prominant political figures involved in some rather embarrassing adulterous relations. The behavior had undoubtedly been going on for years, but the wifes indignation wasn't that he had been doing it . Rather, it was that he had been caught doing it. I'm sure that if I write anything more on the subject, the webmaster will probably delete this whole post for appearing "political," and that's not my intent. But you know what I'm talkin' about, we've all had friends or acquaintances who have been in similar situations.

Originally Posted by Mr&Mrs-naughty

But to have a loving wife/husband home taking care of all the bills,house,kids and all the other shit it takes to make the world go round while the other is out getting his/her rocks off while at the same time calling home and telling his wife how well he is behaving himself is WRONG!!!

The "swinger" in me wants to say "YOU are CORRECT, sir!" But the realist wants to say..."let's not be so fast in our condemnation of Lifestyles other than our own. There's room for many different shades of grey here." I'm NOT making any excuses for anybody. As a single guy, hardly a week goes by that I don't talk to somebody who's been terribly hurt by a spouse's indiscretion. But bear in mind that some women who find their sex lives growing predictable and melancholy can't bear the thought of bringing anybody else into it, so they simply "shut down," or retreat into a masturbatory fantasy world. (often times, thanks to the internet and the availability of cheap hookers, their husband is already IN that world) Those women are often easy to find...just look for the "Supermom" at any school or church function. (I'm kidding, of course. Uh-huh...)

As I said before, staying in a marriage is tough...damn tough, for many people. And divorce sucks, especially if you're a kid. I have a tremendous amount of respect for couples who are able to "keep the fire alive" by incorporating swinging into their marriages. But then, I have the same amount of respect for couples who are able to incorporate ANY coping mechanism(s) that serve to keep the family unit intact.

[Dave_kat]

I've been in the Army for almost 9 years now, and I can tell you exactly how it is. Let's see. During OIF (I crossed the border on March 19, 2002, exactly 12 hours before the president annouced the beginning of the ground war) and we had several female medics attached to our platoon to provide consolidated support. Of those medics, 3 were female, and all three were having the time of their lives with both married and single soldiers, while the bullets were flying. Officers and Enlisted both for that matter.

I got back to Kuwait in Mid May, 2002, and I met 2 female 2nd LT's in the PX who were running a service out back of the Aid station. And boy did they make money.

While in Kosovo in 2000, everyone was afforded the oppourtunity to go to Sofia, Bulgaria, and well, let's just say that tons of brothels were opened to service the U.S. Army. Soldier's would come back with stories of parties that well, let's just say that a few spent quite a bit of time at these locations.

Heck, my last NTC rotation in June of this year, we had several married senior NCOs take underage soldiers to Vegas while we were out in the training area, and have fun. That did not go over well at all.

Right now, I just got back from dealing with a soldier who is married, had a wife in California, and a girlfriend (she just turned 18 in Nov) who is now 2 months pregnant. He moves his wife here, and boy if the young girl's mother is not on the phone with the 1SG.

And on the 15th, I have been required for the Court-Martial of a soldier who, among other things, is accused of raping his 15 year old cousin, and is claiming that his wife was the one sleeping with the same cousin.

Not only is the TDY mentality common, it's rather prevalent.

Still, even as an experienced swinger, I'm not interested in partaking in any of this business. My wife can still play with our friends while I'm gone, I know them and trust them. I'm not going to deny her sex while I'm unable to have some myself, that's in my mind just plain wrong. As you say, she's back here making sure the bills are getting paid on time, we're saving money, and all the while she's worried sick that some stray bullet or car bomb will have my name on it. If it distracts her from the pressure of that, heck I'm all for it. (I just want details) I'l end up being celibate, but unless someone really loves sex on the beach, that's probably a very good thing, there's just too much sand and not enough water there to wash it off.

Still, I have my concerns. My original reason for posting was because somehow the Army got into Swing Lifestyle and had access to all of the emails and pictures (including private) of this couple, without this couple's knowledge. Deleted emails included.

While I'm thinking about it though, I find it interesting that the Army supports things like the events in Bulgaria (heck, there was a bordello on the top floor of the hotel we were required to stay in) and yet will pursue incidents like Swinging when everyone involved is adult and it is consentual, on all parts. (perhaps a bit political, and if so I apologise).

Posted by JnCC:

The "swinger" in me wants to say "YOU are CORRECT, sir!" But the realist wants to say..."let's not be so fast in our condemnation of Lifestyles other than our own.

What I am condeming is cheating.

I've seen it enough to know what it is and what it isn't.