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Apologies in advance, this is a long one but I would appreciate your opinions! :)

 

I've had a close work bud that turned into a really close family friend for the past 3 years. I no longer work with him but we remain very close. I think of him as my brother and I know that J also loves him too. (I'll refer to him as VF.)

 

Not in the same way that she loves me, but more or less like a brother as well. We pretty much feel the same way about him, but I'm not interested in him sexually. We have a lot of things in common and have pretty much hung out whenever there has been any free time for a few years now. Almost like a bunch of dates that we went on as a couple with just him is how I've described it in the past.

 

More about us: W = Man J = Woman We've only been into the LS for a few months, but we have been having a lot of fun (and a few bad experiences too). We haven't fully swapped yet, but that day is coming, and we're really not in a huge rush. Its not that we're not ready or anything its just that we haven't found the right mesh. We've basically kissed (she's really into that) and I've gotten some oral action, as well as a few soft swapping situations. We also almost got into a full swap situation but J wasn't into it. I might make an introduction post and I'll link it here in due time if you'd like to know our full story.

 

In this situation it was mainly me going at it with the other girl, with all clothes on, and instead of jealousy or feeling something else 'silly' I was redefining the word 'hot' inside of my head. I looked over though and she wasn't into the dude and so an abrupt halt was called to the proceedings and we went back to soft swapping.

 

An epiphany of sort though occurred that night because it wasn't about ME doing something with the other woman but it was more along the lines of US having a blast with each other. That's why I stopped when I got the "look" and it didn't bother me one wit that I couldn't continue with the other woman.

 

Fast forward to me waking up this morning and what should pop into my head? Fantasies!

 

I remember watching an Skinimax soft core porn when I was a teen and it was all about how the two girls who were best friends decided to have fun with the husband. At first it was just the wife and she put a blindfold on the guy and kept kissing him, then she sort of tagged the friend and she started kissing him and at first he was like all "Wahhh?" but he went with it, and then the wife came back and started kissing his chest and...you get the rest.

 

So I started thinking about how like guys really do have an attraction/curiosity to their mate's friends. I mean, I had to hold so much together to never bang the shit out of my ex GF's sister. And she was always getting me into certain situations that I'm sure she knew were giving me raging boners... YIKES!

 

Ergo, why wouldn't females have the same fantasy? Except in my case we have a bonafide best friend in our midst who we both care for ... holy shit! Ding ding ding we got a winner! Maybe?!

 

So now I have it playing around in my head for 3 hours this morning and J keeps wondering why I have this grin on my face because I'm thinking about how I can go propose this to my bud. I'm thinking all about how we're going to be just sitting on the couch, then I'll just start maybe making out with the wife a bit, then try to grab VF's hand and plant it on her boob, and whisper something like "hall pass" while trying not to laugh. Then I'm thinking about how turned on both of them would be and how excited my wife would be and I wonder if after a bit maybe she'd call me up, or not, and how "hot" the evening would be. Course, this probably wouldn't be the way it would play out at all but it's my head people! Shit always works exactly the way I want it to :)

 

You see, I know he's clean, great person, has hangups like most people do but he's my best male friend. My wife is my best friend as well. I figure what a fun gift of sorts I could give them, would be a fantasy that they would remember for a long time. I think that the only reason I wouldn't be involved is if he wasn't ok with another male around or if it would make him uncomfortable or unable to get it up or something. I also know that he's into the wife, and I've caught him eying her with the "kissy face" that pretty much sums up his desire. I've already talked with the wife about it and she's expressed her curiosity and it kind of makes total sense to me if you look at the fantasy up above that I got into so much as a teen.

 

I'm going to have to give you more back-story here as it is warranted for him. You see I inadvertently hooked him up with a girl about 8 months back. And she's quite a bore, no same interests, not attractive, not smart, really judgy (meaning: likes to judge others) and mean. We're both baffled why the hell he would be interested in her but we both think it comes down to that he's had 1 serious other girlfriend and this girl now has him ringed in with his cock. He's 30+ years old.

 

I always thought he'd hit it and quit it, but she's still around and it's just all weird. I think it's mainly due to fear that he'll be lonely and this is as good as it is going to get (that's pretty much what he's told me). I think his main problem is that he's so introverted that it is very hard for him to approach girls. I think if he could get past that he'd have no problem as he's very successful and has a great heart. Oh I also helped him lose 50+ pounds too. Rrrreooorww!

 

So there that is, he's got a girlfriend and that's one hang up that might turn him off. No problemo, I respect that even though who in the hell could resist my wife?? The other thing that got me thinking that time is running out is that this psycho biatch seriously started talking aloud this past weekend about "having kids" and "buying a house together". PUUUUKE!!!

 

I talked with him after and said:

 

"Really this is it? You wouldn't fuck anyone else out there?"

 

"No, I would"

 

"Buying houses dude?"

 

"I'm going to buy a house if I want one."

 

Well OK then, that's really inconclusive. I figure if there's ever a time to do this it should be soon. I don't want to screw around with anyone's marriage. I already know she is going to be the super jealous type so I'm figuring this is his last shot. If they are casually dating as he's putting off, then I'm thinking I should be making my move before this thing ends up in a horrible marriage that will eventually end in divorce :P

 

So feel free to give some opinions on the matter so far. It might be too much to ask him to cheat on her, but I feel that's his prerogative but I think it'd be a lot of fun for everyone involved and maybe give him a little confidence boost and help him clear his head and not be so latched on that other horrible pussy. I can see you asking, "Is this to maybe break them up?" While we wouldn't mind that outcome, it wouldn't matter either way as in the end we both want him to be happy.

 

After a little pestering me I finally caved into the wife and told her what was stewing in my brain. I wanted to just have it be a fun surprise but I think she was glad I told her and she told me that she'd be into it if I was OK with it. So now to talk to VF. I think it would go with (forgive lack of quotes):

 

So uh...how's that whole GF action going?

 

 

You guys pretty serious?

 

If no, continue...

 

I mean, do you love her or have you told her that?

 

If no, continue...

 

What if I told you that you could probably fuck someone else? Today even if you wanted to?

 

Gauge response, if positive then continue.

 

Well there's this person I have in mind but it might be a bit weird. Not sure how to approach this...

 

Conversation I hope would ensue.

 

What about my wife? With a giggle maybe so I might have a last chance to back out?

 

I'm expecting a big WTF??

 

Well I dunno...I mean you never thought of it? Then I'd go into how it might be fun.

 

I would never bring up the fact that the wife was in on the whole scheme as that would make things weird for them if he didn't want to give it a go. I'd think he'd be fucking bananas not too, but who am I to judge.

 

The only negative for me that I've found is that well the first swap wouldn't include me, or at the best it'd be a MFM which does sound fun even though I'm not into dudes, because mainly I bet J would really enjoy it. I figure that life is long, I'll get my chance, or the more morbid: I'm dead I don't care. I can sure as shit tell you that if it was the other way around and J did a FMF for me I'd be smiling for months. I somewhat thought about that maybe J could then go around my back and cheat on me later with VF. I figure if that's what she wanted to do she could have easily done that in the past 3 years no problem.

 

The only negative for him would be he thinks we're fucking crazy and doesn't want to hang. He's pretty laid back that I think even if I did ask he might be weirded out for a few days but we'd be OK in the end. Or he thinks I'm a bastard that wants to break them up or something although I would hope with my line of questioning I could get that before the whole proposition part. I also would make clear that this is just going to be a one time thing. The reason for saying that would be so that there would be no expectations for anything in the future. I'm not so sure that he could the making love vs fucking or casual sex part of the whole equation. I'd make it really clear though up front that it'd be just sex and if he couldn't handle it then never mind, no hard feelings.

 

The other thing would be is that somehow he'd spill the beans and it would end up affecting his relationship with his yucky GF. Like I said before we'd be happy about it, but he might not be. If he breaks up with her we certainly aren't playing with him every night so he might be lonely till he found someone else. Which if he tried would be a day.

 

That's not to say that if everyone had a good time we couldn't give it another go, I just don't want to give him the wrong idea or maybe even provide a band aid for his other relationship. Mostly as if that one gets more serious then I really want nothing to do with that.

 

I can definitely over-think this though so I'll defer to the good people of the community. Is this just a bat shit crazy idea or should I give it a go?

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Yes, you've over thought this, but that's okay. When swingers overthink things, they're accused of obsessing. When Navy SEALs overthink things, they're called "being prepared for any and all contingencies"

 

Having done exactly what you're talking about a number of years ago, it went something like this -

 

"Hey, come on over, Z's in a mood and wants to hang out and watch porn."

 

"Cool. I'll bring beer."

 

"Hey, this movie is really turning me on." (she plays through her clothing, gets hot and bothered, he ends up being next to a woman who's really turned on)

 

Here's the tricky part - you have to send him home at this point

 

"Hey, she really liked watching that movie with us last night."

 

"Yeah, I had a good time, too"

 

"You know, she was telling me later that if (insert lame excuse here) hadn't happened, she'd've loved for you to join us."

 

"REALLY?!?!"

 

"Yeah, you interested? Next time? Don't bring beer, though."

 

It's not like this hasn't crossed his mind. It has. Hell, it crosses my mind with the women I deal with in the course of my day. It worked for us because he knew of our porn habits and had been in on several porn related email exchanges between us, and had also been more than happy to share his thoughts on the matter. We had known him at this point for almost ten years.

 

The worst part is that your friend is in a somewhat committed relationship. It would be nice if he were to move on, but I'd totally let him know that something like this is on the table - as long as he isn't in a committed relationship.

 

Good luck, enjoy, and if you know of a compound German word for "Couples who like to seduce their friends and sleep with them" please let me know.

 

W

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Bringing vanilla friends into a swinging relationship is very tricky and even though it's something we have done successfully a couple of times it is NOT something that we recommend.

 

The first thing you need to be prepared for is losing the friendship. Regardless of how well you think you know the other person there will always be the chance that revealing the fact you have sex with people who are not your spouse might not go over well.

 

In the situation you described, my personal opinion is it's not a good idea.

 

Your friend is in a relationship. Asking him to cheat on his SO is so uncool. How would you feel if someone asked you to cheat on your wife? By doing so you display a lack of respect for him and her. Regardless of how you feel about her, at this point in time she is his girlfriend and their relationship deserves your respect even if you don't understand why he's in a relationship with her.

 

There are numerous available single men in swinging. There really is no need for you to try and bring a vanilla friend into it, especially this one.

 

 

Teresa

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Guest MrsVan

Bringing vanilla friends into the lifestyle is a bad thing in my opinion. I know some people have success with it however for me and my soon to be ex husband, it did not work out so well. We had brought my best friend and her husband into the lifestlye and a year later they both developed feelings for each other and fell in love.

 

I think what you are wanting to do may be a bad decision with your "bud". I suggest not doing this but that is my opinion.

 

MrsVan

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You may not approve of his relationship but he's is in a relationship. Thinking that you are helping him by encouraging him to cheat on his girlfriend is not a good idea. Hey, if you want a single man there are lots of them out there who are willing. Don't jeopardize a good friendship for a fuck.

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Yeah, like others have said, the fact that the friend is in a relationship currently is a big no no for this.

 

The other issue is that he's a friend. You have to think long and hard if the night of fun (or potentially many nights of fun) are worth the risk of the friendship. Sometimes a friend can stay a friend after sex gets involved, sometimes not. And it's very hard to tell if that is the case until after the fact.

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Personally I think you're making a bigger deal than it needs to be. If he's as good a friend, love him like a brother, as you say he is and the feeling is mutual. I'd just have a casual conversation with him and tell him that you and J have recently started swinging and see how he reacts to it. He'll either ask some probing questions, like what got you interested in swinging? What types of things have done? Where? With whom, etc. That would be a good sign. If he tells you that's a total turnoff off for him, then that gives you a different answer. Either way if you're as close as you say, I don't see him saying he no longer wants to be part of the family. Your call and good luck.

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Like others have said, the fact that he is in a relationship now makes it more difficult to justify morally. Cheating on an exclusive girlfriend is not a good thing IMHO. In your situation, I would tell him that you are in the Lifestyle. Maybe have him over for beers and BBQ. After a few beers you can tell him that the two of you have had this little secret, and that since he's such a great friend you'd like to share it with him. I would have your wife present when you do this; share the secret as a couple. Then let him react, ask questions, etc. What you are doing here is planting a seed in his mind. It WILL grow and someday your fantasy of an MFM with him will come true. ;)

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I agree with 2inSD, your wife should be present when you have the conversation with him and she should definitely maintain eye contact with your friend. Nothing to be shy or embarrassed about here. You are both in the lifestyle and since you two feel he's like a member of the family you are sharing some of your personal life with him. After you share this information it might be a good idea for you to give him alone time with your wife to see if he says anything to her or asks her anything he might not have been comfortable asking in front of you both and then your wife should do the same for you, giving you alone time with him. Have a discreet signal between you two for when the other should depart and return, so you are not interrupting a question or concern of his.

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Thanks to all for the responses.

 

I do agree, that asking to cheat is not cool. We just always thought this was a casual thing that just kept going...and going...and going..and wtf?? In person he says it's just casual and that he's not going to settle, in real life though it seems otherwise.

 

How quickly things develop though. VF in the past two weeks or so has started to "flake". Not only on us but on other things that he said he'd be doing and then just didn't end up happening.

 

Last night I was supposed to meet him for some lunchtime exercise and that ended up being a no go. Oh well, the wife and I would be seeing him later that afternoon at our weekly game. He's injured so wouldn't be playing but could coach a bit and help the team.

 

Anyway, at lunch over the phone he offered to pick me up to drive over there. That afternoon, no call, no VF. I figure, well what the heck I'll drive over with J and probably just see him there. I'm called him twice and no answer. WTF? I play the game and I can already tell that J is a bit angry, stemming from a disappointing loss. That started to transfer into a bit of sexual frustration but more that our bud has "chosen". Mainly because we despise her. Fair enough though, it's his life his decision. I give it one more try calling a bit late and still a no answer. Ouch...

 

Fortunately for us, her angst turned into outright lust and we had a grand old time, with me commenting mid-stream later that night something along the lines of, "HA HAHAH AH VF really missed out. OHHHHHH, WHOOA, what are you doing? OK THEN!! Go go go, oh shiiiiit". Lol.

 

This morning we realized that it's too late, he's in a committed relationship and he's effectively broken up with us. I suppose we didn't see it at first but over the weeks the flakeyness has gotten more often and not answering telephone calls? Yup, we were dumped. :D

 

We'll still hang I'm sure, but that was the end of an era. Cheating for us is a big no no, so until that status changes the thought of entertaining it is gone. Actually, it's sad but I think she's so controlling that we'll mainly just be people that we see during events that we both happen to be at. I don't think she allows him to answer his phone anymore is what we're guessing. Poor dude!

 

As far as single guys, I dunno if I'm into that weirdly enough. For now, I'd rather be with a couple and maybe swing it MFM or MMF that way maybe for both girls and then swap over to FFM MFMFM and MFMMFMFMM LOL. This was simply more of a fantasy that I thought would be fun for the wife mainly because he was our good friend.

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The weird thing about this is that I'm pretty sure he already knows.

 

There was one night when I was getting all ramped up and a little drunk and we were all dancing in the living room. Grinding me, J was grinding VF a bit (with GF there LOL) and then a tad later I was blurted out rather loudly, "OK the sexual energy is going to burst. This tank is done full and these pants are coming off in T-minus 5 minutes. I am going to start fucking!"

 

To sell the line I unbuttoned my pants (yeah sorry by this point I was drunk) and started dancing about the room with my manhood starting to bulge. It was still covered, but VF's girl starred at me and said something like, "Oh shit time to go" whereas VF took a freakin seat on the couch! GF said, "Hey time to go", and he didn't budge till she started dragging him out the front door.

 

Course then there was the time later when they again sort of crashed our swinger time with another couple, and I sort of had my pants off at one point and it didn't seem to phase either of them. Instead later they started making out rolling on the floor and the other couple asked probably a little too loudly, "Are they swingers too?" It seriously looked like they were kicking off the festivities, while we were patiently waiting for them to leave. I had my pants back at that point but was like....whhhhaat am I missing here?

 

They did end up leaving and even if they were swingers (which they aren't) I'm just in no way interested in her. Yucky!

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I agree with 2inSD, your wife should be present when you have the conversation with him and she should definitely maintain eye contact with your friend. Nothing to be shy or embarrassed about here.

 

LOL, eye contact and a little smile will do the trick, for sure! ;)

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Instead later they started making out rolling on the floor and the other couple asked probably a little too loudly, "Are they swingers too?" It seriously looked like they were kicking off the festivities, while we were patiently waiting for them to leave.

 

Yes. He knows.

 

W

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In response to your OP question, "inviting vanilla friend," I stopped dead in my tracks (or keyboard, as it may be ;) )

Lion and I may not be the most experienced, but I'll throw in my two cents anyways:

We had a MFM with a good friend. He was vanilla, but had been in MFM before and was interested in trying with us. Turned out very, very bad. We are no longer friends (long story, but mostly due to his communications skills) and losing the friendships the three of us had hurt more than anything. The MFM wasn't worth it, IMO.

We also full swapped, separate rooms with a couple we were friends with when we were still vanilla. We knew they were in the LS, and they kind of introduced us. We aren't as close as we used to be because they are into us more than we are into them and she (not he) creates a little bit of drama about it when we see them. (We work REALLY hard to be drama-free!)

So vanilla or not, I'd say no to hooking up with a friend. I'm sure there are many people here who have had completely different experiences, but I thought I would share ours.

I hope it works out well for everyone involved no matter what you decide. :)

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We work REALLY hard to be drama-free!

 

One of the biggest reasons for coming into the LS was to be drama free. We thought of the potential for drama was too high so we've just dropped it. No need to hurt feelings, risk losing friends or whatever. He's still with the girl and she's pretty much moved in now so that ship has just sailed.

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One of the biggest reasons for coming into the LS was to be drama free. We thought of the potential for drama was too high so we've just dropped it. No need to hurt feelings, risk losing friends or whatever. He's still with the girl and she's pretty much moved in now so that ship has just sailed.

 

I'm glad to hear you guys came to a solid conclusion. I hope it works out for the best for everyone involved.

:)

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