Wife Wants To Roll Solo...Now What....

[twoloves]

Need advice...here's the situation:

Solid marriage, coupla decades, middle aged, absolute trust, great communication, swingin' for several years, full swap...not belt notchers but experienced...

A few yrs ago wife had a couple of solo play times with guy acquaintances. I said if I ever had the chance I would like to do that. Not jealous of guys, just jealous of the experience. Most of our play has been couple with couple, same room and separate room.

Fast forward to the last 6 months...I have been with a single female 6 times solo. It was great. Wife said to go for it.

NOW....wife meets dude at club...dude's wife and I do not click...there is a suggestion that my wife has 4 some with dude while his wife is with a different guy that she has been solo with a few times. (I stipulated that wife play only with dude while dude's wife plays with other guy. No interaction between my wife and other guy although the 2 females played some). Wife says, "hey, it's my turn, suck it up". I say ok.

Wife comes home from play. I say glad ya had a good time but are we done now? Wife: nope wanna do it again. I say: no foursomes, this is a couple gig. And besides I'm not handling it as well as I thought I would. Wife: suck it up, I like the guy and want to do it again. BTW, readers, fellow sends chatty emails every week. This bugs me.

Ok, sorry to go on...I acquiesce to a 3 some with me and dude to make wife happy and to try and "level" the tables but no more 4 somes with somebody else and I'm not there.

What do I do? I am uncomfortable now with solo play. I don't deal with it as well as I thought I could. Am I being selfish? She isn't going to run off with other fellow, it's just that I don't want to share unless we're playing as a couple. I changed my mind. I don't want some other fellow sending emails and trying to be my wife's "buddy".
She say's I'm controlling. Resents that. Say's I had my fun and now it's her turn, sorry how you feel. I ask when will it end, when you have 3 more times alone? She say's not sure, maybe more...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

Am I screwed up? I want to be fair but....?

2luvs

[alabamafuntonig]

hum not selfish just have boundries . one comment on the communication thing! got to do some more of it soon! if this bothers you tell her again and again!

[sexypairca]

Alright I will give this a go. Your wife plays solo with a married man who's wife also plays solo. The 4 of them play together, you don't like the guy and think that should be the end of playing solo.

If this is correct then all solo play should stop until your boundaries are reassessed. You have made your concerns known, swinging is no place to bring in the what's good for the goose is good for the gander theory. Sometimes you don't know how you are going to handle a situation until it has already taken place and is now unchangeable. At that point all you can do is pick apart the situation and figure where it went wrong and learn from the experience.

If she feels entitled to continue to partake in group activities with this guy(and without you) then you have a problem on your hands. Blatently acting against one another's wishes is a road to disaster and your trust will be on the line. Swinging isn't intended to hurt anyone and it appears that she might be willing to risk too much in this case.

Annette

[fun_pairTX]

You do the crime you do the time, you play you pay, none of the cliche's fit. Is it unfair for you to feel this way? Yes, somewhat, given the mitigating circumstance of your own dalliance. Now that she has played as well, you should discuss that you are both even, its not about keeping score.

If your relationship is solid neither one of you should want to do anything that will hurt or distress the other.

[EternallySingle]

I don't think its as much about your wife playing solo as it is that you and the other guy's wife don't get along. when you said...

NOW....wife meets dude at club...dude's wife and I do not click...there is a suggestion that my wife has 4 some with dude while his wife is with a different guy that she has been solo with a few times. (I stipulated that wife play only with dude while dude's wife plays with other guy. No interaction between my wife and other guy although the 2 females played some). Wife says, "hey, it's my turn, suck it up". I say ok.

Wife comes home from play. I say glad ya had a good time but are we done now? Wife: nope wanna do it again. I say: no foursomes, this is a couple gig. And besides I'm not handling it as well as I thought I would. Wife: suck it up, I like the guy and want to do it again. BTW, readers, fellow sends chatty emails every week. This bugs me.

...it sounds more like the typical one-spouse-has-friend(s)-other-spouse-can't stand. Having a friendship with someone your S/O doesn't like makes life easier in normal relationships. Swinging just makes everything more difficult.

What do I do? I am uncomfortable now with solo play. I don't deal with it as well as I thought I could. Am I being selfish? She isn't going to run off with other fellow, it's just that I don't want to share unless we're playing as a couple. I changed my mind. I don't want some other fellow sending emails and trying to be my wife's "buddy".
She say's I'm controlling. Resents that. Say's I had my fun and now it's her turn, sorry how you feel. I ask when will it end, when you have 3 more times alone? She say's not sure, maybe more...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...

I know many couples who do not swing who have divorced because one or both had friends who got in the way of the marriage. Maybe because I am single and has been the 'outsider', I may be seeing things from a different angle. But it sounds less like a swinging issue than a marriage-vs-friendship issue. Try to make her see it in those terms and it may make it easier to convince her to cool it with this other couple and their friend. Maybe if it were someone else, someone you actually got along with you would not feel jealous.

[Nymph an' Satyr]

I don't know- doesn't sound too good to me. When something bothers me, my wife stops doing it- RIGHT AWAY. I do the same. Maybe time for a marriage counselor.

[NightGoddess]

"I am uncomfortable now with solo play. I don't deal with it as well as I thought I could." ---two loves

Mr. Twoloves, I think you are very clear about what is bothering you in this situation. I give you a lot of credit for telling the painful truth. Did your wife say she was as uncomfortable w/you when you had your 'solo' time to swing? If it was not a good experience for her to be the one waiting at home, is her point payback? The reason I bring that up is that it SOUNDS like she made the assumption that it's 'too bad if you don't like this, it's my turn to hurt your feelings..' If she did feel unhappy with the agreement for you to swing solo...did she let you know, or are you getting clobbered after the fact?

One of the important points is the rules you make for yourselves as a couple: if one person feels unhappy with the situation, then perhaps all activity should stop until you have this ironed out to the satisfaction of you BOTH.

I think you should take some time to sort this out before you feel more hurt and anger kicks in...the other red flag is the fact that her swing partner dude is mailing little letters to her in-between times: you may be feeling like the emotional closeness is being threatened by this dude.

A marriage is a treasure. When someone feels getting a 'fair share' is more important than reinforcing the togetherness...something's not right.

I wish you luck and I hope you can both learn something from this. Have no idea what you will learn, but perhaps that's the way life is sometimes. We try stuff. Sometimes it turns out well, and sometimes not.
If you can think of a compromise, like being present while she's w/ the dude (same room swap) perhaps it will smooth things over. However, you are right to be as honest and up-front with her about your feelings as you are. That's a great start.

Good for you--- being open about communicating what is bothering you.

[Nymph an' Satyr]

I definitely did not like the tone of the email messages that the "dude" was sending to his wife. It has too much of an emotional quality. For us polyamory is not what we are looking for- we have our emotional fulfillment with each other. Sex is something different all together.

[NightGoddess]

Originally posted by Nymph an' Satyr
I definitely did not like the tone of the email messages that the "dude" was sending to his wife. It has too much of an emotional quality. For us polyamory is not what we are looking for- we have our emotional fulfillment with each other. Sex is something different all together.

I think this is absolutely correct: if the husband/dude is communicating w/ the wife in a way that makes Mr. Twoloves uncomfortable, it should stop. What could he have to say that couldn't be said to Mr. Twoloves?
--As a single woman, when I deal w/a couple, it is of utmost importance to behave in a way that demonstrates total respect for the wife. I believe it defuses any hint of competitiveness or -whatever- that might be construed as 'emotionally threatening' to the wife.

Great insight, Nymph n' Satyr.

[JMR]

Your wife loves you I assume, and also you love her. So if this is true she should stop IMMEDIATLY and you two should set new boundries and talk about it. swinging can be VERY difficult. The thought of my wife cheating on me gets me very mad. But the thought of my wife with someone else of my approval turns me on. Its esencially the same thing just with two different feelings.
J

[JustAskJulie]

Question: IS it the idea of her playing ALONE (ie without you) that bothers you? Or is it the idea of her playing with this guy? Or of her playing with another couple without you involved.

My thoughts on playing alone in general (and it worked for us).

If you come as a couple then we come as a couple. If one of us (or you) isn't interested, then neither of us play.

If we play alone then it's with singles only.

[twoloves]

Thanks one and all for your great and thoughtful responses. Your advice is very much appreciated from Ms 2luvs and myself.

After much discussion we have decided to continue with solo swinging. Although we have tabled the idea of her in a foursome without me being there. Solo or separate (whatever the term is) swinging can be a great experience. One thing my wife say's is that we're making much adoo about nothing; when we're in our 80' with the drools we'll wonder what all the fuss was about and wish we had done more!

Ok, to answer a few questions:

<If your relationship is solid neither one of you should want to do anything that will hurt or distress the other.>

Not a question but a great statement, funpairTX. That is where we are. Don't want to throw the barrel out with the bathwater, but want to make each other happy.

<...it sounds more like the typical one-spouse-has-friend(s)-other-spouse-can't stand. Having a friendship with someone your S/O doesn't like makes life easier in normal relationships. Swinging just makes everything more difficult. >

Good point, eternally single, and close to the mark.

<Did your wife say she was as uncomfortable w/you when you had your 'solo' time to swing? If it was not a good experience for her to be the one waiting at home, is her point payback? The reason I bring that up is that it SOUNDS like she made the assumption that it's 'too bad if you don't like this, it's my turn to hurt your feelings..' If she did feel unhappy with the agreement for you to swing solo...did she let you know, or are you getting clobbered after the fact? >

Thanks NightGoddess. She was just a little uncomfortable but not much figuring her turn would come eventually. No payback type issue.

<I definitely did not like the tone of the email messages that the "dude" was sending to his wife. It has too much of an emotional quality. For us polyamory is not what we are looking for- we have our emotional fulfillment with each other. >

Excellent point Nymph an Satyr. No poly for me. Hard enough dealing with one other person much less a number of other people. And, yes, it did bother me.

<Question: IS it the idea of her playing ALONE (ie without you) that bothers you? Or is it the idea of her playing with this guy? Or of her playing with another couple without you involved.

My thoughts on playing alone in general (and it worked for us).

If you come as a couple then we come as a couple. If one of us (or you) isn't interested, then neither of us play.

If we play alone then it's with singles only.>

Julie, playing alone bothers me more than it botherd her when I played alone. The idea of playing with this guy didn't bother me as much as his little "chatty" emails. (We share everything including emails). And, her playing with this other couple really bothered me because I don't want to feel like my wife is a slut that is screwing all over town. I know, I know, don't blast me...women aren't sluts because they sleep around...it's just this feeling I get. Hell, I can't explain it. Also, Julie, your rules are good; I just want to keep an open mind although the road is a little rockier.

Having said all that, and now you're going to shoot me...my single friend called and wants to get together again ...wife says go for it but just remember when it's my turn...dang, I'd like to be with this gal again...can I have my cake and eat it too?....now, it's back to let's make a deal time!

Part of the whole issue is that my beautiful wife is more of a stoic, (english/welsh background) and I am more passionate (read latin male).

I have a question for you all:

For those that have been swinging separate in the past or still are, how's it going? Any rules that you adhere to? Why did you stop? Is it working?

Thanks again for your great replies. They were great. Thanks for this wonderful forum.

2luvs

[fun_pairTX]

Originally posted by twoloves
Having said all that, and now you're going to shoot me...my single friend called and wants to get together again ...wife says go for it but just remember when it's my turn...dang, I'd like to be with this gal again...can I have my cake and eat it too?....now, it's back to let's make a deal time!

JEEZ.................Shootin is too good for ya Bubba. THINK WITH THE HEAD THAT IS ON TOP OF YOUR SHOULDERS.

Thats how this whole thing started man. You need to make up your mind. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it doesn't happen that way. It is like when my dad asked me, "what do you want to be when you grow up?" "A musician" I replied, He looked at me dead serious and said "one way or the other you can do both" That is our advice here.

Looking back to your post, the email would bother me a LOT more than the sex.

[Nymph an' Satyr]

Looking back to your post, the email would bother me a LOT more than the sex.

Aye, agreed.

We don't swing seperately. For us it's strictly a couples thing.

I had a similar experiance as twoloves did, in that I permitted my wife to have a solo fling with a guy she was hot for. (For the record I have never had a solo fling.) I found it distressing.
It was not the sex, but there was an emotional component that made me feel, well, jealous. We'll avoid the solo flying for now

[twoloves]

UPDATE:

This continues to be an ongoing problem. The irresistible force meets the immoveable object. Any advice?

Since July, when I last wrote, wife and I continued our solo play until late September when I stopped seeing my friend. I stopped seeing my friend because the enjoyment I got from that friendship was not worth the pain I experienced when my wife went off for foursomes with her friend (s).

I asked her to stop and get back to doing just couple activity. She said no, that she really enjoyed the friendship and sex. We argued a lot. Harsh words. Hard feelings. I acquiesced to two more of her foursomes. Once in October and once in December. I did this because I thought I owed her (number of times).

In November and December we talked with a therapist and we both saw an attorney to get background info on a possible divorce. The therapy was inconclusive and very expensive. We stopped that. The attorney is drawing up a marital agreement at this time in case we end up in divorce proceedings. It isn't finished yet.

I asked her to stop again. I told her it hurts me and angers me. Asked her to start out '04 as a couple in the lifestyle and forgo solo play. She said no, that she plans to see her friend for the forseeable future. She said it's fun and is just sex, that she isn't leaving me and he isn't leaving his wife. She said I was "controlling" and overbearing. I still haven't seen my friend since September and I will not see her. My desire for the lifestyle has diminished now due to the problems we have. She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it. I say the lifestyle is about couples. We pushed the envelope, we both had fun, let's quit now, while we are ahead.

Our options are thus:

1) I forbid her to see him. (She said that she would be very upset and her feelings for me may change and our sex life would greatly diminsh. Not a good option. Besides, I would want her to stop because she loves me and is of her own volition.)
2) The latest "compromise" from her is for her to be allowed to see him 4-6 more times and continue to IM and phone. This would take us into next September or so. (The problem with this option is that I don't like the stress/anxiety this causes me and I don't feel it's fair to put me through this. I fear there may be some degradation in my feelings for my spouse.)

Am I wrong here? Am I too controlling? Should I just let her go and not worry about it? Am I being paranoid? Have we just, after 25 years, come to separate roads? Any other ideas out there? Have any of you out there negotiated solo play successfully?

2luvs