Wife Wants To Roll Solo...Now What....

[SexhoundDog]

Mr. Twoloves,
From reading this post (can't believe I missed it in July), I don't put much faith in your two options.

1) You can't forbid her to see this guy. You've got divorce papers drawn up, she's told you it will change her feelings for you, etc. and you really think forbidding her will work?
2) The compromise from her just delays things while she makes up her mind about what she wants to do about your marriage. I've never heard of anyone saying "just let me see them a few more times and I'll stop." It's kind of like masturbating, if it feels that good, are you really gonna stop even if you say you will?

I wish the outcome were better than I think it's going to be, but unfortunately, you both opened Pandora's box up, and it appears very difficult to close it now. From reading your story, it sounds as if your wife is a bit selfish or doesn't value the marriage that much as compared to swinging episodes with this guy.

She has definitely departed from the "go as slow as the slowest one wants to go" theory and the "setting boundaries" theory. I really do wish you luck. I'm afraid you'll need lots of it if you choose to stay, and I hope you can work it out rather than toss out 25 years of marriage.

[sharp1]

"She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it."



In the same paragraph she accuses you of being "controlling and overbearing", I believe it is SHE who is controlling YOU!
It may be hard for you to hear this, but it seems to me that she has put her "partying" ahead of the relationship the two of you share.
Iwish you the best of luck in whatever decision you choose to make.
-Michael

[yawanna]

She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it.

This is not correct. Your situation is not the lifestyle.

I don't want to be presumptious here, given that while you have posted quite eloquently and most likely accurately about the situation, it's still only a posting and forgoes an ability for the rest of us to hear from both parties and others involved as to just what exactly it going on.

With that being said.... this is not about swinging, IMHO. This is about her having the respect, care and love for you to put your marriage first and foremost. I'm not reading that.

I also resent, always, the 'lifestyle' being used as an excuse to behave abhorrently to a loved one or partner, and perhaps used as an excuse to end or corrupt an existing relationship. Which is why I don't often respond to posts such as these....but..in your case.... you've asked at least twice for input...and in a sincere and open manner.

Hope this helps.

[Alura]

Originally posted by twoloves
For those that have been swinging separate in the past or still are, how's it going? Any rules that you adhere to? Why did you stop? Is it working?

Early in our marriage, before we actually played with another couple, we decided to give "an open marriage" a try. Mrs. Alura came up with the first action. She met a "hunky" contractor who was doing repairs of the apartment complex she worked at. We talked about it and I said, "Sure, go for it."

It took two dates to get into his pants, but she did. Mr. Alura had no jealousy problems but that may have been eased by the "dude's" underwhelming style in bed. Mrs. Alura decided she didn't care to see the guy again so we tabled the "playing separately" idea for awhile.

The next time the subject came up was when Mr. Alura was dancing at a class reunion with his high school sweetheart to "Teen Angel." She snuggled up cheek-to-cheek and whispered, "I'd like to fuck your brains out."

"Hey!" he replied. "We can do that! I'm sure it'll be okay with Mrs. Alura."

Mrs. Alura prepared a "hotel room care package" which included a scented jar candle, massage oil, and a few other goodies. Neither of us can remember the whole inventory.

The question hasn't come up since then. We're sure, if it ever does, we'll handle it as before, a case at a time. The concept of playing separately isn't as important to us as the "team chase." Maybe someday we'll succeed in seducing Mrs. Alura's high school sweetheart.

Alura

[LadyCleo]

Originally posted by twoloves
I asked her to stop again. I told her it hurts me and angers me. Asked her to start out '04 as a couple in the lifestyle and forgo solo play. She said no, that she plans to see her friend for the forseeable future. She said it's fun and is just sex, that she isn't leaving me and he isn't leaving his wife. She said I was "controlling" and overbearing. I still haven't seen my friend since September and I will not see her. My desire for the lifestyle has diminished now due to the problems we have. She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it. I say the lifestyle is about couples. We pushed the envelope, we both had fun, let's quit now, while we are ahead.

Our options are thus:

1) I forbid her to see him. (She said that she would be very upset and her feelings for me may change and our sex life would greatly diminsh. Not a good option. Besides, I would want her to stop because she loves me and is of her own volition.)
2) The latest "compromise" from her is for her to be allowed to see him 4-6 more times and continue to IM and phone. This would take us into next September or so. (The problem with this option is that I don't like the stress/anxiety this causes me and I don't feel it's fair to put me through this. I fear there may be some degradation in my feelings for my spouse.)

Am I wrong here? Am I too controlling? Should I just let her go and not worry about it? Am I being paranoid? Have we just, after 25 years, come to separate roads? Any other ideas out there? Have any of you out there negotiated solo play successfully?

2luvs

First thing, please suggest strongly that your wife read this thread. I think that you have made yourself perfectly clear. It hurts you when she is out with people other than you, particularly THIS man who, it seems, is trying to carry on a romantic relationship that steps over your boundaries. For your wife to argue that you are being controlling sounds to me that she is trying to shift the blame for your predicament squarely onto you rather than accepting her share of the blame. I agree with the above poster who suggested that it is indeed your WIFE that is controlling in this relationship at this time.

It sounds like if you push the situation, she will leave. But, do you really want her to stay if she shows such little regard for your feelings? She obviously has more invested in the relationship with this other man than she is letting on. It needs to stop and it needs to stop NOW!

There is never any sex that is better than the relationship between a husband and a wife. If she'd rather be the 3rd wheel in their marriage than be a wife to you, or perhaps break up their marriage as well, you are just going to have to let her. Cut your losses and heal yourself. Only you can make sure your best interests are met.

Perhaps, I am underestimating your wife. Perhaps she will come to her senses. Perhaps not.

You need to STOP :slam" rationalizing this situation. You need to STOP head bang trying to "compromise" since you are the only one that seems to be compromising anything.

Good luck to you.

BTW, just curious, what part of OR are you? Please feel free to answer that question in an IM or private email.

LC

[NightGoddess]

Lady Cleo, You said lots there that addresses the core issues of what constitutes a solid relationship: both partners are interested in what is best for them, maintains the relationship, and keeps boundaries intact. Kudos for a well-stated post.
Mr.twoloves, I hope your wife recognizes what she is possibly losing by insisting on 'her way or the highway...' I hope you survive this situation with at least a clearer understanding of what you want......or don't want. You're hearing from lots of couples that they move at the pace of the partner who is least comfortable. To me, this means respecting the relationship instead of giving one person's desires priority. The marriage is the first priority. Period.
Good luck to you.

[Alura]

While we can't add substantially to the wisdom you've received from Yawanna, Lady Cleo, and Night Goddess, we wish to add our best wishes to both of you in resolving your dilemma. Any marriage as enduring as y'all's is worth saving but both have to want it.

It seems possible that two marriages are being threatened here. Have you considered that the time may have come for all four to discuss the situation? Some day, somehow, you're going to have to.

We apologize for our light hearted handling of your question in our previous post. Playing separately has never been a big part of our experience or fantasies. Anything that may threaten marriage is not an acceptable part of the life style, in our opinion.

We hope the love y'all have enjoyed for many years can support both of you in working this out together.

Alura

[Vjklander]

Originally posted by twoloves

Am I wrong here? Am I too controlling? Should I just let her go and not worry about it? Am I being paranoid? Have we just, after 25 years, come to separate roads? Any other ideas out there? Have any of you out there negotiated solo play successfully?

2luvs

Your wife is acting as part of a couple - with this other man. There is more than just friendship and sex here.
Mrs Vjk or I will occassionally play solo with one of our long term friends, but either of us would stop in a second if the other said to. Our friends would also stop immediately if they thought either of us wasn't kewl with it.
J

[GirlieZ]

Originally posted by twoloves
UPDATE:

This continues to be an ongoing problem. The irresistible force meets the immoveable object. Any advice?

Since July, when I last wrote, wife and I continued our solo play until late September when I stopped seeing my friend. I stopped seeing my friend because the enjoyment I got from that friendship was not worth the pain I experienced when my wife went off for foursomes with her friend (s).

I asked her to stop and get back to doing just couple activity. She said no, that she really enjoyed the friendship and sex. We argued a lot. Harsh words. Hard feelings. I acquiesced to two more of her foursomes. Once in October and once in December. I did this because I thought I owed her (number of times).


I asked her to stop again. I told her it hurts me and angers me. Asked her to start out '04 as a couple in the lifestyle and forgo solo play. She said no, that she plans to see her friend for the forseeable future. She said it's fun and is just sex, that she isn't leaving me and he isn't leaving his wife. She said I was "controlling" and overbearing. I still haven't seen my friend since September and I will not see her. My desire for the lifestyle has diminished now due to the problems we have. She says this is the lifestyle, get used to it. I say the lifestyle is about couples. We pushed the envelope, we both had fun, let's quit now, while we are ahead.

Our options are thus:

1) I forbid her to see him. (She said that she would be very upset and her feelings for me may change and our sex life would greatly diminsh. Not a good option. Besides, I would want her to stop because she loves me and is of her own volition.)
2) The latest "compromise" from her is for her to be allowed to see him 4-6 more times and continue to IM and phone. This would take us into next September or so. (The problem with this option is that I don't like the stress/anxiety this causes me and I don't feel it's fair to put me through this. I fear there may be some degradation in my feelings for my spouse.)

Am I wrong here? Am I too controlling? Should I just let her go and not worry about it? Am I being paranoid? Have we just, after 25 years, come to separate roads? Any other ideas out there? Have any of you out there negotiated solo play successfully?

2luvs

If you were still seeing your "friend" would it be ok for her to see her friend? I see it as a "whats good for the goose is good for the gander" situation in which no one wins. Someone is frequently left out in the cold.

I'm not sure if I understand you "owing" her....I look at this lifestyle as something you share, together. Not a situation where you compete against each other. Its a team sport.

In my humble opinion when you shared your concerns with her the very first time all swinging should have stopped until you two could have come to an agreement of sorts. Boundaries have to be kept and only crossed after serious discussion. Even though my husband and I swing infrequently, we know what we can do and what we can't do. If a situation arises where we are afraid the "rules" will be broken, we talk to each other and honestly share our feelings. We always make sure that we are on the same page. We do this for each other, because we love each other and find it exciting.

Besides, I think that he is so absolutely fabulous that I can't help but share him.

But back on the subject of you and your wife~~

If this is so damning...STOP...NOW...try to salvage your relationship and get back on track. DON'T LOOK BACK....because what is essentially important here is your relationship. Try to continue counselling...what is more important..a few measly dollars or your 25 years of happiness?

Zgirl

[midnightpassion]

it's kinda of hard to say, who might be in the right. i would suggest. tell her if she still wants to play. go for it. but only if you pick who ever and when ever you want. then just wait for her responce. it is true when couples swing it is not meant to hurt anyone. both should be ok with it. or it should not be done. my wife and i both play alone at times and we are ok with it. but my wife only playes with other ladies. and we at times have them spend the night. but thats just us. if your wife knows how you feel then she should stop. if she doesnt. you my friend have some real probs there. cause it would sound like she could be falling for this guy.


midnightpassion

[MrsBliss]

In my opinion you are definately NOT too controlling! You are not selfish or wrong in any way. Your wife is going against your wishes which you made very clear a long time ago.

I do not like the word "negotiate' which you are using. Swinging, playing, sex etc is not about negotiation it is about shared interests and wishes, about a couple having fun together.

Your wife seems very unreasonable and not willing to listen to you. She is the selfish one here.

I wish you strength for the months to come, you will need it!

[Couple_N_Ark]

I realize this is an old thread, but we just had to "weigh in".

For us swinging is something for us to share together. Sometimes this includes other men, sometimes other women, and sometimes other couples. Sometimes it even includes "Groups".

We never concern ourselves with facts like how many of another sex is involved at any given time....as long as we're both comfortable with the others who are with us.

And we never keep a "scorecard" of how many others that she has had, or how many others that he has had, so that we can play "catch up".

Our marriage is very strong, but we would never consider swinging alone with another "single" person. No matter how strong the marriage, that just opens up too many possibilities. Also one of our things about swinging is voyeurism, and exhibitionism, so you do sort of need more than two to accomplish that feat.

Lastly, one thing I don't think was fair in this situation was the fact that she was not only swinging single with ONLY another man, but she was actually swinging with a group of people without her husband.

To us, that would just be entirely going way over the edge.

[Mich149]

Agreed agreed agreed. We can't possibly know what other dynamics are going on in the marriagebut as far as "this is the lifestyle"? You can not use the lifestyle as an excuse to run roughshod over your partner's feelings. If you do - you don't have a partner, you have a roommate. And one who's going to be moving out when the lease is up.

[Chicup]

If having sex with this foursome is more important to her then your marriage then you have big problems and I think unless she willingly changes her ways you are going to need those papers.

Swingers can still cheat, and I'd call this cheating.

[cpl4playmass]

The act of Swinging is a mutually agreed upon act if your a couple.

Ain't no other way!!!! Otherwise they are acting single and need to be given their single papers.