Mixed emotions about swinging separately

[funat40]

I apologize ahead of time, as this is going to be a long post. I feel like I need to talk this through and get some outside opinions, but obviously I can't talk about this with anyone I know in person. So I'm hoping to get some opinions from the "veterans" on this forum.

My wife and I started swinging about eight months ago. Before then, we had never even discussed swinging, and our sex life was pretty typical for a long-time married couple. Since we started swinging, our sex life has improved tremendously. We are now much more open and vocal about what we want, and our passion for each other has never been more intense. We're like a couple of teenagers who can't keep their hands off each other (which must really gross out our kids.)

Until recently, our swinging experience was only with other couples (and a couple of single guys at a couple of parties.) While we had several rules when we started swinging, many of those rules have pretty much gone out the window as we've grown more comfortable with the whole idea.

One of those rules when we began is that we would always swing in the same room. My biggest thrill is watching her with another man, and she enjoys watching me as well, so it just seemed counterproductive to swing in separate rooms. Unfortunately, I've learned (the "hard" way) that I simply cannot perform with another woman if my wife is in the same room. It is just far too distracting, and I get "sensory overload."

So...recently, we tried separate-room for the first time with a couple we had been with a few times before. I had no problems whatsoever, and it verified my theory about same-room swapping.

Meanwhile, my wife recently began chatting with a single guy on a swinger's web site. They really got along well, so we agreed to meet with him for drinks. He's a nice guy, and she's very attracted to him, so I have no problem with her being with him. The next time they chatted online, the guy asked if she would visit him at his office the following day for a little "afternoon delight." She initially said no, as we only play together. But throughout that day and into the evening, we both talked about it, and I convinced her that I would be okay with it. She didn't need much convincing, as it was clear to me she really wanted to do it.

So...the next day, she surprised the guy at his office and gave him a blowjob. She then came home and told me everything that happened in great detail. It was probably the hottest story I'd ever heard in my life, and we had the most amazing sex for days afterward.

Shortly thereafter, she told me that a guy she works with had "outed her" as a swinger, and was very interested in hooking up with her. But this was a violation of her #1 rule: never play with anyone at work. However, as we discussed it together, I learned that the only reason she had this rule was that she was worried how I would feel about it. I told her that as long as she was comfortable with it, go for it.

The next day, she asked this guy to meet her for lunch after work. She said she had some questions she needed to ask him, as she wanted to learn this guy's motives. Was he expecting a relationship with her? Would it be weird for him if anything happened? Etc.

Well...their "talk" soon turned into an intense make-out session on his couch, culminating with her blowing him. (She would have done more, but the "timing" wasn't right.) She then came home and told me everything that happened. I was actually shocked, as I thought they would just be talking. But at the same time, I was hugely aroused by it, and once again we had amazing sex for the next several days.

At this point, I had to do a bit of soul-searching. We had grown so far upstream from our original set of "rules," and yet we were both okay with it. Better than "okay," actually. What I couldn't figure out was why I was so turned on by it. Not only wasn't I in the same room when this happened, but I wasn't even on the same side of town! What was I getting out of this?

Then I had to ask myself: Why should I have to get something out of it? As long as it's only about sex and pleasure, and no emotions are involved, what harm is there in allowing her to enjoy herself as often as she wants, whether I'm there to witness it or not? If she wanted to go skydiving or bungee-jumping, would I deny her that opportunity unless I were there with her, holding her hand? Of course not. Why is sex any different?

Of course, she has told me many times that I'm allowed to play alone as well. But let's face it, that's probably never going to happen. The odds of me finding a woman interested in having sex with a married guy are about as likely as finding buried treasure in my backyard.

So, what we're left with is a lopsided arrangement where my wife plays with as many guys as she can handle, while I sit home and live vicariously through their experiences. This isn't about "us" anymore -- it's about her and her pleasure. It doesn't seem "fair," but then again, it doesn't have to be. And just because I'm not able to experience as much pleasure as her doesn't mean I should put an end to her fun. That just seems selfish.

Next weekend, I'm heading out of town, and she has expressed an interest in getting together with her work friend for another "lunch." I have really conflicted feelings about that. On the one hand, I think it would be VERY hot to hear about her playing with another guy while I'm away. On the other hand, I won't even be here when she returns from her playdate, so I won't benefit at all from the mind-blowing "after-sex." There would literally be nothing in it for me this time.

Now that I've laid out all of that, I don't even know what questions I have! I guess I just wanted to get that off my chest and get some feedback from guys who have been in a similar situation. How do you handle it? How do you reconcile the "unfairness" of the situation? What do you get out of the experience of sharing your wife with other men? Have you encountered any problems or issues that I may not have considered?

If you've made it this far, thanks for listening!

[sweet_tna]

I think you and my hubby have a lot in common. He too, prefers same room, though I'm the one who tends to find it distracting. He's gotten to be cool with separate room, and a few times has let me play solo. However, he too, sees this as an "us" thing, and wrestles a bit with not so much the "unfairness" of me having potentially more opportunities than he, but with the derailment from our original path (of this being a team sport). This of course, conflicts with his desire to see me happy.

My reasons for enjoying solo play are simple. We have children, so getting together with others as a couple requires a sitter. And it's tough to find couples where all four of us are (relatively) equally attracted. So if he's really bonkers about the wife, I'm usually not so about the husband, and vice versa. He knows he has my blessing to play solo whenever the opportunity presents, but he won't avail himself. So for now, I've decided to let it go. I don't like him being in that quandry, especially if I'm the cause. And he's right. It is a team sport.

I don't know if that was at all helpful, other than to let you know you're not alone.

=)

[Alura]

To me, the best part of swinging has been that we did it together. Y'all don't seem to be doing this.

We tried playing separately early in our marriage and found it wasn't for us. Y'all, however, seem to be different.

That you have misgivings indicates that you're not happy with the situation. I'd suggest you talk at length with your wife about the whole situation and try to work it out between yourselves.

I can see a lot of red flags here that need to be heeded.

Alura

[lustylearning]

Originally Posted by funat40

So...recently, we tried separate-room for the first time with a couple we had been with a few times before. I had no problems whatsoever, and it verified my theory about same-room swapping....

Of course, she has told me many times that I'm allowed to play alone as well. But let's face it, that's probably never going to happen. The odds of me finding a woman interested in having sex with a married guy are about as likely as finding buried treasure in my backyard...

So, what we're left with is a lopsided arrangement

Well, first of all, you've already played alone, technically - it may have been simultaneously play alone, but it was play alone. The fact that you've done it once means you can do it again. There are plenty of people who play solo. You may have to fine tune how you find them if you're looking for it as more of a "me" thing than a "we" thing.

Odds are your wife will always have more opportunity to play than you, but it doesn't means she has to play more than you. Your boundaries and rules are up to the two of you. Let your boundaries fit your comfort levels.

[funcoupledayton]

Have the two of you read the book, The Ethical Slut? It deals a lot with the emotions of swinging, polyamory and swinging separately, specifically. It might be helpful to you.

[Coupleerotic22]

So much of what you wrote sound like us, with a few exceptiosn.

Originally Posted by funat40

My wife and I started swinging about eight months ago. Before then, we had never even discussed swinging, and our sex life was pretty typical for a long-time married couple. Since we started swinging, our sex life has improved tremendously. We are now much more open and vocal about what we want, and our passion for each other has never been more intense. We're like a couple of teenagers who can't keep their hands off each other (which must really gross out our kids.)

This is us exactly except for the talking part and we already had a pretty darn good sex life, not what I would call typical. We discussed swing top to bottom, inside out, before we started. We talked about everything and how it might impact our lives. I think you could have benefited from that before jumping in to the LS.

Originally Posted by funat40

Until recently, our swinging experience was only with other couples (and a couple of single guys at a couple of parties.) While we had several rules when we started swinging, many of those rules have pretty much gone out the window as we've grown more comfortable with the whole idea.

We started with a laundry list of rules, dropped most of the quickly because they did make sense or just really did not apply.

Originally Posted by funat40

One of those rules when we began is that we would always swing in the same room. My biggest thrill is watching her with another man, and she enjoys watching me as well, so it just seemed counterproductive to swing in separate rooms. Unfortunately, I've learned (the "hard" way) that I simply cannot perform with another woman if my wife is in the same room. It is just far too distracting, and I get "sensory overload."

So...recently, we tried separate-room for the first time with a couple we had been with a few times before. I had no problems whatsoever, and it verified my theory about same-room swapping.

We started same room only and found it iw was just too distracting for both of us. Although, I still prefer it because I like watching her have fun. I just have to maintain focus on my partner. She has bit tougher time maintaining focus, but lately, is working on that because she has more fun when I am there.

Originally Posted by funat40

Meanwhile, my wife recently began chatting with a single guy on a swinger's web site. They really got along well, so we agreed to meet with him for drinks. He's a nice guy, and she's very attracted to him, so I have no problem with her being with him. The next time they chatted online, the guy asked if she would visit him at his office the following day for a little "afternoon delight." She initially said no, as we only play together. But throughout that day and into the evening, we both talked about it, and I convinced her that I would be okay with it. She didn't need much convincing, as it was clear to me she really wanted to do it.

Huge difference here. She never meets anyone alone for the first time. She never plays solo, except for a select handful of playmates we both know and trust. SO far it has only been the male half of a couple we already play with. Our main reason is safety. But there are other reason you should reconsider how you do this. Single males play can cause you issues with attachment. I trust her to back away if she feels anything more than a sexual draw. But we have already had concerns about a single male that we have had threesomes with getting a little too attached to her. She has never, and probably will never, play with him if I am not present. It just makes sense to protect yourselves as much as possible. Solos with singles is the hardest way to do that in my opinion.

Originally Posted by funat40

So...the next day, she surprised the guy at his office and gave him a blowjob. She then came home and told me everything that happened in great detail. It was probably the hottest story I'd ever heard in my life, and we had the most amazing sex for days afterward.

Yes, that sound like a wonderful turn on, but it would concern me on a number of levels. Surprise? At work? First time alone with him? I would have issues with that, just too many things that could go wrong. Fortunately, the Mrs. and I are on the same page, so this would never happen with us.

Originally Posted by funat40

Shortly thereafter, she told me that a guy she works with had "outed her" as a swinger, and was very interested in hooking up with her. But this was a violation of her #1 rule: never play with anyone at work. However, as we discussed it together, I learned that the only reason she had this rule was that she was worried how I would feel about it. I told her that as long as she was comfortable with it, go for it.

"Outed" or discovered? Outed, to me, means he told others of her secret. We both would have tremendous problems with that. If it is discovered, I would be concerned how he did so. I am not sure what your level of discretion is, but ours is very high. She would be extremely distressed if someone at her work found out. Perhaps your wife is a bit too open in her work place if someone figured it out. But if you guys are comfortable with work mates knowing, then I guess that is not an issue.

We do not play with work mates, ever. First, we just don't mix the two worlds, it would not be good for either of our careers. But even if that were not the case, playing with coworkers is fraught with issues. The work and play dynamic changes completely. This could end up putting her is position to make some uncomfortable decisions. If he is a superior or subordinate (or could be in the future) then her sexual relationship could have an impact on decisions made, or worse be used as leverage against her. In the end, if her employer found out it could cost her her job.

Originally Posted by funat40

The next day, she asked this guy to meet her for lunch after work. She said she had some questions she needed to ask him, as she wanted to learn this guy's motives. Was he expecting a relationship with her? Would it be weird for him if anything happened?

Well...their "talk" soon turned into an intense make-out session on his couch, culminating with her blowing him. (She would have done more, but the "timing" wasn't right.) She then came home and told me everything that happened. I was actually shocked, as I thought they would just be talking. But at the same time, I was hugely aroused by it, and once again we had amazing sex for the next several days.

Probably not a good idea either. If the stated intention was not sexual activity, it should stay that way. If all parties knew going in that sexual activity could occur then that is a bit different (except for the coworker part). We do not change our situational rules in mid stream, too much room for error. IT sound like you had the impression it was just talk, but she may have thought differently. You both need to be on the same page and stick to the plan.

Originally Posted by funat40

At this point, I had to do a bit of soul-searching. We had grown so far upstream from our original set of "rules," and yet we were both okay with it. Better than "okay," actually. What I couldn't figure out was why I was so turned on by it. Not only wasn't I in the same room when this happened, but I wasn't even on the same side of town! What was I getting out of this?

That is okay. Rules change, attitudes change. As long as you are both truly okay with it. It sounds like you have some nagging doubts however. If so, you two need to address them immediately,

Originally Posted by funat40

Then I had to ask myself: Why should I have to get something out of it? As long as it's only about sex and pleasure, and no emotions are involved, what harm is there in allowing her to enjoy herself as often as she wants, whether I'm there to witness it or not? If she wanted to go skydiving or bungee-jumping, would I deny her that opportunity unless I were there with her, holding her hand? Of course not. Why is sex any different?

The bottom line is women almost always have more opportunities to play than you. It is just the nature of the LS. But, how you handle it depends on what you both agree too.

Originally Posted by funat40

Of course, she has told me many times that I'm allowed to play alone as well. But let's face it, that's probably never going to happen. The odds of me finding a woman interested in having sex with a married guy are about as likely as finding buried treasure in my backyard.

It will certainly be more difficult for you to play alone, you just do not have as many options as a male, but it is not impossible. For us, her solo play occurred when I was "out of the game" due to surgery. Her libido would have caused her some serious frustration or me some serious damage had she not played solo.

Yes, I have her blessing to play solo, particularly since I travel, frankly she looks forward to hearing about it if it occurs. It just has not, but I have had opportunities, just not taken advantage of them.

As others have said, this is a team game for us. We have discussed solo play as a matter of practicality. Like I said I travel some. We have children at home, sitters is one of the biggest road blocks to both of us getting free. But solo play is not our main priority or even a goal. It is more about the situation and we have discussed it in great detail, so we are both on the same page.

TO me it sounds like solo play for her is becoming the main stay of the LS. Which will leave you home alone more often than not. You really need to talk about it with her.

My wife has had many more opportunities to play solo than she has taken advantage of because she wants this to be a team game for us as well. Even though she has had my blessing to go and play solo, she usually passes for a number of reason. Mainly because she enjoys the team aspect and she respects the fact that I don't get the same number of opportunities. She does not want things to become lopsided. YOu wife really needs to understand that. If one side is always playing and the other is not, the dynamic changes, and it may cause problems in your relationship.
If your wife is not longer looking for team play, but leaving that up to you to find, then it will be more difficult to find couples to play with in my opinion. It is just easier when both parties are involved in the process to find other couples.

Originally Posted by funat40

So, what we're left with is a lopsided arrangement where my wife plays with as many guys as she can handle, while I sit home and live vicariously through their experiences. This isn't about "us" anymore -- it's about her and her pleasure. It doesn't seem "fair," but then again, it doesn't have to be. And just because I'm not able to experience as much pleasure as her doesn't mean I should put an end to her fun. That just seems selfish.

Correct, it is no longer about the team, but about here. I think that is a problem. Swinging will become less appealing to you in the long run. It is best to address the situation now rather than later.

But that does not mean putting an end to solo. It doesn't have to be either/or. You do need to find some balance that makes you both happy.

Originally Posted by funat40

Next weekend, I'm heading out of town, and she has expressed an interest in getting together with her work friend for another "lunch." I have really conflicted feelings about that. On the one hand, I think it would be VERY hot to hear about her playing with another guy while I'm away. On the other hand, I won't even be here when she returns from her playdate, so I won't benefit at all from the mind-blowing "after-sex." There would literally be nothing in it for me this time.

Have you expressed this to your wife? One of the few rules we have is if anyone is uncomfortable we stop and do not proceed. You clearly sound uncomfortable. You two need to discuss that. She needs to respect your feelings. You are both in this together, even if she is playing solo, it has an impact on you.

That said, one of the biggest turn benefits for me is to see her have fun and be happy, even if I am not present, the thought of her having a great time is a benefit for me.

Originally Posted by funat40

Now that I've laid out all of that, I don't even know what questions I have! I guess I just wanted to get that off my chest and get some feedback from guys who have been in a similar situation. How do you handle it? How do you reconcile the "unfairness" of the situation? What do you get out of the experience of sharing your wife with other men? Have you encountered any problems or issues that I may not have considered?

If you've made it this far, thanks for listening!

Bottom line, communication with your spouse is the key to this. Sit down and talk all this through with her and get on the same page.

Good luck

[TNT]

Originally Posted by funat40

So, what we're left with is a lopsided arrangement where my wife plays with as many guys as she can handle, while I sit home and live vicariously through their experiences. This isn't about "us" anymore -- it's about her and her pleasure. It doesn't seem "fair," but then again, it doesn't have to be. And just because I'm not able to experience as much pleasure as her doesn't mean I should put an end to her fun. That just seems selfish.

Next weekend, I'm heading out of town, and she has expressed an interest in getting together with her work friend for another "lunch." I have really conflicted feelings about that. On the one hand, I think it would be VERY hot to hear about her playing with another guy while I'm away. On the other hand, I won't even be here when she returns from her playdate, so I won't benefit at all from the mind-blowing "after-sex." There would literally be nothing in it for me this time.

It's only lopsided if you "feel" it's lopsided.

One of the main ingredients for happy, successful playing alone/separate swinging is that BOTH parties are equally into it and BOTH find pleasure in it.

Ted would LOVE for me to play alone...to him it's immensely erotic and one of his biggest turn-ons...however, even though I have on a couple of occasions, I don't get the same thrill out of it or enjoy it as much as he does. What would be unfair is if I played alone just to please him...I would eventually become resentful of doing something I didn't enjoy, just because it was something that he wanted me to do.

If you truly enjoy your wife playing alone and you are getting the same thrill out of her escapades that she is, then there is nothing unfair or lopsided about it. It's a kink of yours and you should just enjoy it, regardless of what others think or feel about it.

If you're not getting the same thrill and enjoyment, and truly feel that her playing alone holds nothing for you whatsoever, then it needs to stop.

Playing separately has to be just as much about BOTH parties as playing together is, or it won't work.


Teresa