My wife wants to swing without me...with our roommate

[atlas]

My wife and I have been discussion swinging for a couple years but never took the plunge. A combination of nerves and lack of time just prevented us from making the leap. However, I've been plunged into a triad-ish situation, and I'm having a little bit of trouble with it.

My wife and I have lived with my best friend for probably 7 of the 9 years we've been married. We've recently stepped up the swinging talk again, and we didn't hide it from him. He's currently out of work and at home all day and my wife is home with our kids, one goes to kindergarten and the other takes long naps. Over the last couple months he became very flirtatious with my wife when I wasn't around. It went to the extent of laying out his penis for her to examine. This is when she let me know.

One night, when he was leaving town for the week, she told me about the situation and essentially asked my permission to take it further. I was hit with a mix of emotions. On one hand, it was excitement, on the other hand, fear. I gave my blessing because it sounded like fun. However, over the next couple days, my wheels kept spinning, and I've been battling jealousy and insecurity since.

We've had several talks where I went back and forth. I've been trying to find a place where I'm comfortable and she's happy. A comprise I offered was that I have to be around. Neither like that option because for him it was "weird" and for her it seemed controlling. On the last discussion, after he came back to town, I relented and gave her the green light again. It came down to the fact that she was angry that I was going back on my blessing, and the genie was out of the bottle. My mind was going to run wild either way. Therefore, we figured we march ahead and hopefully I'll get used to it. We're hoping it's just nerves. She's promised to keep me informed. Since then, only a handjob has occurred.

Saying "stop it" really is the worst option in my opinion. Talking about it gets us both hot, and I'd really hate to betray her in going back on my word. I think it'd be a step back rather than forward. Besides, it'd still leave me with trust issues. I'm fairly certain they'd listen if I asked it to stop, but I really dislike that option. I'm not sure it'd solve my insecurities.

The problem with going forward is, what if I don't get better? I'm having trouble concentrating at work due to always thinking about this. I have lingering insecurities. Whenever she's hanging around him I start getting depressed that she seems more excited to be around him than me. It turns to anger when I realize the only reason this has happened is that *I* have to go to work and watch kids while he gets to be around responsibility free.

I'm really having a hard time with this and looking for some help/advice. I know there are many no-no's here (swinging with someone you live with/open marriages seem to have a low success rate/taking one for the team), but I'm not sure what to do about them. I broached the idea of a MFM, but he wasn't too keen on that. Besides, I think this is ultimately an insecurity and trust issue on my side. I just don't know what to do about it. As much as we talk, I fear her growing weary of me whining about my insecurities. I'd just be transferring my stress to her.
I'm really sort of stuck. I think the primary problem is that the source of jealousy lives with us, so I have no solace. I really did this to myself. help?

[The Fuse]

atlas,

Ugh, buddy, I feel for you.

A friend of a friend went through a similar situation, and ended up losing his wife to the other guy.

The other guy lives with you. Like you said, there is no respite. He is always there. Why that works for you in the first place, is another big question. Do you tend to let people take advantage of you?

Whatever the reason he lives with you, it makes your situation very serious. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. I think you have two basic choices: either let it run its course to whatever outcome with him in the house and having sex with your wife, with you feeling unhappy the whole time, or take decisive action to change the situation. You'd pretty much have to throw him out and tell your wife you aren't comfortable with her seeing him at all. Either option is messy. If you do nothing, essentially you are picking option number one. Do you think your wife will go from being bonded primarily to you, to being bonded primarily to him? After all, they are together all day! I would be very worried.

Anyone see a third option? Continuing to live all together and telling them to stop, though you said you think they would, I'm betting would backfire pretty badly. Desire has a way of making people do stupid things. Your wife would be bummed and resentful. The other guy might feel entitled. If he can't handle only being with her when you are around, that means he is territorial and might try to steal her away from you. He may see weakness in that you relented.

Good luck, man. I hope it works out.

[xxxboxy]

Option 3 is to pursue swinging as you originally intended...before your wife get's completely intimate with your friend.

[sexcupid]

I would have to wonder how your friend is still living with you 7 years later? And jobless? And able to go out of town for trips?

I see you trying to be the "good guy" in the situation...because you want your wife to be happy...but honestly your comfort matters here too. So what if its weird for your friend...if he wants to fuck your wife, you want to be a part of it, then he needs to decide how badly he wants it to happen.

Talk to your wife...decide on ground rules. If you aren't comfortable, she should care. Sure it can be disappointing, kind of like telling a kid they are going to Disney World and you take them to a broken down old playground instead. But for goodness sake, think with the bigger brain. The two of you need to be solid and agree on terms...it will help some with trust issues if doing this is something you are both involved in, instead of you dictating rules at her.

Of course there is some insecurity involved...first of all its something new happening and you aren't sure how things are going to go. Secondly, you are gone a significant part of the day and they have plenty of opportunity to do what they want to do. You are worried that if you get uncomfortable enough to put the brakes on the situation that they are just going to do what ever they want to do.

There really isn't an easy to solution to this situation. Welcome to the SB...there is lots of great advice around here.

[HappyInClyde]

Wow...um...my 2 cents worth...I'll say that both your wife and your 'friend' have managed to create a situation where you are the 'bad' guy, where you are the problem. I have nothing against polyamory, or in this case, polyandry. In fact, I could see my wife and I in a polyandrous situation with one of our swinging friends. But polyandry and polyamory flow from a mutual respect from ALL parties involved, and in my most humble opinion, the third should never suppose to supplant the primary. The situation you describe seems to me to be that your wife and friend get to be at home alone while you go out and work and make their lifestyle possible. I hope everything works out for you guys, perhaps it's time for a man to man chat with your non-working, non-contributing friend and reassert the proper boundaries. Not to say that can't ever include sex with your wife, but if it's not coming from some level of respect for you...it's nearly bound to end in disaster. Best of luck!

[prometheius]

Hmmm, this sounds very familliar. Is someone still trying to release a book this spring, now, with slightly different circumstances? Seems the plot is still pretty much the same.

[atlas]

Thanks everyone, you've echoed a lot of my thoughts.

Just some general answers, we also live with my sister-in-law and her husband. My friends girlfriend was living here too until a month ago. The "situation" seemed to develop as their relationship was ending. We like the company of the big household and all get along, for the most part. They all pay rent. However, I handle the major expenses as the benevolent dictator.

Jobless was the easiest way to describe it. He's actually on disability for the last year and a half due to back surgery. It's possible this is all temporary in that he'll go back to work eventually. Furthermore, our youngest will hit daycare and my wife will go fulltime. Having money to go out of town but being scarce on rent is actually an issue I have with him. I don't make it a flash point because, in the past, he's good for it eventually.

My wife and I are each other's first and only. I think we're both attractive and HWP. However, she was heavy and shy in her teen years, and still still carries that self image a bit. I've always been rather introverted and easy going. My friend is a bit more of the alpha male type that attracts women but has trouble keeping them.

She intends on keeping the play soft for a variety of her own reasons, but I think she's being naive with herself on that one. Eventually, he'll push and my wife isn't the best at fighting peer pressure (example, she didn't think he really wanted to do anything when all this started).

I can't say the particular sex act bothers me. I think it's the idea of her being happier around him than me. I say "I think" because I'm rationally ok with all of it. It's become a game of guessing and managing my emotions. I know she still loves me, but it's the difference between the new toy and the old toy. Having my mind analyzing every situation can be torture. I don't want to be the old toy.

She's been stepping up the club talk, and sex has been more active the last couple days. The club has always been a problem because of babysitters. I really think she's trying to help me out. I just have to get past the thought of her playing defense so she can get back to her fun.

I'm going to suffer through this and hope it gets better or boring. Thanks for the words and any future. It's insightful to hear stories of similar situations even though we're all different.

[fun4Ds]

Stop what you are doing, its not swinging. No one should suffer, or is tortured in swinging....

Your right, you did bring this on, so stopping all activity within the "household" is your stance and responsibility now. Personally, I think your struggling with feeling cuckold pangs or at least "alfa" conflicts. You have the money, he has the charm ?

When you and Mrs atlas began the subject of swinging was your friends girlfriend in the picture ? or did you have intentions of your friend alone, from her, then ? Maybe thats something to consider.

At this point, stop !! Until ya can all sort this out, you'll just be messing up a potentially "good" swinging situation.

[atlas]

There was an inside joke that if my brother-in-law and his friends girlfriend were out of the picture, we'd have the perfect situation. My wife and I agree that the joke is what probably dropped the barrier and emboldened him (she hopes she didn't lead to his girlfriends departure. I think it could have hastened but not caused.)

My wife and him do get along well. They're both artsy types and play video games together. Women have always gravitated to him a bit although I'm not sure why. Unfortunately, I'm more responsible and straight laced; a less dynamic personality. I end up the "bud" in a relationship while he's more often the "stud". I think that plays into my fears.

My wife and I work because we're both very easy. That's not all, but I think that's been a cornerstone. We generally don't create drama or demand much of others. Again, that's what makes this difficult because it puts me in the position to create drama.

Often, I want to flash out in anger screaming, "WTF! You guys took all my good intentions and applied them in EXACTLY THE WRONG WAY. Now I'm the asshole?!" However, I'm looking for positive resolution not a 10 minute power trip.

[atlas]

To who ever changed the title: Thank you. That's probably a clearer way of thinking of the situation.

I keep weighing my options:
1. Kick him out. That's going to be emotional napalm and I think leads to a longterm relationship scar.
2. Deal with it and enjoy the hyper libido. Maybe I can deal with being cuckolded. I never liked the idea and obviously still don't. I'm worried how long the emotional effects will last. Focus is crucial for my job, and I'm already suffering loss of appetite.
3 try to create an inclusive situation rather than the current exclusive. My wife likes the idea, in theory. However, he and she, keep using the word "weird". That makes this a distant possibility and shares problems with #2
4. Make the leap into wider swinging. Again, shares problem with #2.
5. Get a girlfriend. I hate this option because it's the typical open marriage problem. She will find boyfriends 100 times over me finding a girlfriend. It also feels like a revenge scenario. Least of all, between work and kids, the only way I could do this would be by neglecting her.

Really it's #1 or #2, #3 and #4 are just pain management strategies. #2 has been what I'm going with and seems the real winner as much as it's not a fix. Any more suggestions for coping strategies or something I'm missing altogether?

She's often said it'd be fine if I was swinging with her sister alone. That briefly looked like a possibility, but it quickly vanished. I can't help thinking I'm being a bastard because I was willing to have the shoe on the other foot.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by atlas

There was an inside joke that if my brother-in-law and his friends girlfriend were out of the picture, we'd have the perfect situation. My wife and I agree that the joke is what probably dropped the barrier and emboldened him (she hopes she didn't lead to his girlfriends departure. I think it could have hastened but not caused.)

Ok, an inside joke with you and your wife...or an inside joke that the household knows about?! If we were living with 2 other couples and I knew one of the other ladies felt it would be more ideal if I was out of the picture (or that my SO was out of the picture) then I would be mighty uncomfortable living there.

Often, I want to flash out in anger screaming, "WTF! You guys took all my good intentions and applied them in EXACTLY THE WRONG WAY. Now I'm the asshole?!" However, I'm looking for positive resolution not a 10 minute power trip.

What exactly were your good intentions and how do you feel they were applied in the wrong way? This is the problem between fantasy and reality...fantasies tend to go the way you want them to because you control the players...reality involves the machinations and desires of the other people. I do not think its right that they are making you feel like the bad guy here.

What does a positive resolution look like to you?

[xxxboxy]

The danger item here is that swinging is a no strings attached activity and what is going on in your house most definitely has strings attached.

I'll be honest with you from my perspective; what's going on isn't swinging, it isn't poly-anything...it's much closer to cheating.

I think option 1 is your best option, the relationship scaring is going to happen regardless. With any other option you're the only one getting hurt.

[atlas]

Originally Posted by sexcupid

Ok, an inside joke with you and your wife...or an inside joke that the household knows about?! If we were living with 2 other couples and I knew one of the other ladies felt it would be more ideal if I was out of the picture (or that my SO was out of the picture) then I would be mighty uncomfortable living there.

It started between my wife and I. I think she shared it with her sister. I'm not sure at which point it was shared with my friend. I think it was after the penis incident but before I was made aware.

Originally Posted by sexcupid

What exactly were your good intentions and how do you feel they were applied in the wrong way? This is the problem between fantasy and reality...fantasies tend to go the way you want them to because you control the players...reality involves the machinations and desires of the other people. I do not think its right that they are making you feel like the bad guy here.

Applied in the wrong way is more or less exactly what you said. When you share fantasies and then people run with it. Then they get offended that they "followed your advice" and you're getting upset. In reality, they didn't exactly follow your advice. They applied their interpretation of your advice.

I'm in the wrong in thinking it was going to be OK and giving an initial green light. It was, like you said, a problem of my fantasies conflicting with my reality. However, I'm not sure I would have felt a lot more confident if I stopped it cold.

Originally Posted by sexcupid

What does a positive resolution look like to you?

The best scenario is that I get over it, and she gets bored with him.

We similar situation occur 2 years ago where she was chatting with someone on Second Life, and his advances were starting to get under my nerves (asking where she lived, when she was home, etc. He would tell her when he was going to be around our area. ) I let it go but started to get uneasy when I thought I noticed her behavior change, more private. Upon my wishes, she shut him down. However, this time, it's not so easy to shut down.

Again, I'm at work while some young guy with not a care in the world is free to romance my wife. Swinging was a WE journey and, in both situations, they're becoming ME journeys.

I don't want to believe I'm too jealous for all this. The flashing hand job isn't what has bothered me. It's the sense that the party starts when I leave.

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by atlas

It started between my wife and I. I think she shared it with her sister. I'm not sure at which point it was shared with my friend. I think it was after the penis incident but before I was made aware.

I can't imagine telling my sister that I want her to fuck my SO...and that it would be ideal to get rid of her spouse. That is disrespectful to their relationship.

I am about to get nosy here...but is it actual financial necessity that you have had 6 adults sharing living space for 80% of your married life? It seems that boundaries and privacy are at best blurred lines in your household. If you didn't have these roommates, would you be able to support your family? Perhaps the best thing that could be done is to clean house all the way around and reclaim space for you, your wife, and kids.

They applied their interpretation of your advice.

I'm in the wrong in thinking it was going to be OK and giving an initial green light. It was, like you said, a problem of my fantasies conflicting with my reality. However, I'm not sure I would have felt a lot more confident if I stopped it cold.

I just went back and reread your OP...and this is how I am piecing together what you have said:

Friend's girlfriend moves out...he starts flirting with your wife while everyone else is at work, things finally escalate to where he exposes himself to her...THEN she finally tells you what's been going on all that time? You let your hormones take over and think "hot!" and green light activity that you have already been excluded from for months and now think that they are going to include you in on. Both get defensive and think its weird that you want to be involved now. And on top of that, make you feel like an ass for not being comfortable.

The best scenario is that I get over it, and she gets bored with him.

And your relationship suffers in the mean time? What kind of living environment is this for the other members of the household and your children? At some point they are going to be less than discreet and others are going to find out (if the sister doesn't already know since obviously your wife can't keep an inside joke inside).

Swinging was a WE journey and, in both situations, they're becoming ME journeys. I don't want to believe I'm too jealous for all this. The flashing hand job isn't what has bothered me. It's the sense that the party starts when I leave.

These are the points you need to bring up to your wife. Example: we have talked about doing this before and I thought it would be something that we could be doing together...not dreading going to work every day because I feel like the party is happening without me being involved in anyway.

Why isn't your wife more concerned with how you feel? If her responses tend along the "well you said I could do it" or "this is what you wanted" then I don't know what to tell you. She is caught up in the excitement of "oh new toy!" and probably has a little bit of tunnel vision. Do a role play...or propose a role reversal...what if it was you that had another lady around doing these things and your wife was excluded when she wanted to be involved?

[Chicup]

Be a man, say no, kick him out. My gut tells me he and she already had sex.

This will not end well, as its obvious you do not want to be part of a MFM triad.

Also time to find a home without a roommate. Roommates are for college students.