Am I being a control-freak?

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by yourbitterpill

For an open marriage to work, both partners need to abide by mutual rules, communicate on a regular basis, respect each others feelings, and only go as quickly as the slowest person.

Exactly

Originally Posted by yourbitterpill

To follow your reasoning, Julie, it would seem that you think that either partner should be able to go off and do whatever and whomever they'd like, regardless of their primary partner's feelings on that issue.?

But that is what she did isn't it? And you have all the misery & fallout from it.

Originally Posted by yourbitterpill

If that is the case, then what's the point of being married or having a primary relationship?

I think this is your real issue because I think she's already passed the secondary relationship point and is far too into this guy.

I can understand you wanting to go slow so that she doesn't end up in a new "bad" relationship on a rebound.

But let's face it she's broken your jointly agreed rules, failed to keep you in a comfortable space when she changed plans and frankly the "lost track of time" excuse is such BS I'd never accept it. I for one think she fucked the guy and NO you can't always really tell.

Add the fact that she's arguing with you over meeting with this guy again tells me you have a crisis coming.

I'd terminate this one without further question and I think you two need to have a real discussion about what you do in the future. When one party is no longer willing to play by the rules you're facing a disaster sooner or later if you continue.


Gord

[Sunswept]

yourbitterpill,
What moved you two to "open up your marrage" ? What was that going to do for you two that swinging would not? (Swinging and an open marrage are not the same things, they have somewhat different dynamics.)

Since you have been swinging for years, then I would assume you both have an 'I'm OK/You're OK" dynamic between both of you in relation to swinging.

But the dynamic I see between you two in relation to this experiment in 'open marrage' is that you say you are OK with it, but you think Mrs Pill is "not OK" -you fear there is potential for her to make choices that will hurt her. And you are trying to control the situation to insure that will not happen, and think that you see things more clearly than she. (Maybe you do, maybe you dont.)

The bottom line is that at this point, and considering present circumstances, you really are 'not OK' with "open marrage." The real problem as I see it is that any control issues that exist between you two arise from the the reality that you (and probably neither of you) are not ready for "open marrage"... and hey -thats OK.

You have fear. From what you have told us she may make poor choices and get hurt. (Not knowing if that is the reality of course, I have not heard her side) but that it is your perception and that is what is important. The 'open marrage' path requires that neither of you have fear and both of you are confident in each other, and know you both will make good choices

Just saying what Chicup and Julie said, from a slightly shifted perspective and with different words.

The real question seems to me is not about control, but why you talked yourself into thinking you were OK with "open marrage" when you actually deep down were not with your current partner. Willing or controlling ones self into being OK with something when you are not is usually a disaster in the context of relationships. And being OK with something in the abstract don't count, especially when the rubber meets the... whatever!

The good news is that you two can both use this as 'awareness expansion" event to work through the 'issues' this has revealed -and perhaps grow to a place where you both are ready for 'open marrage' if that is something you really want. Wanting something and being ready -are two different things.

[yourbitterpill]

Originally Posted by Gordo

I for one think she fucked the guy and NO you can't always really tell.

Like I've stated, I believe she didn't.

Can we all move on from this subject? It's becoming quite disrespectful...

Originally Posted by Gordo

I'd terminate this one without further question and I think you two need to have a real discussion about what you do in the future. When one party is no longer willing to play by the rules you're facing a disaster sooner or later if you continue.

Yes, we already DID terminate this, as I stated in my last post. And we both agree mistakes were made and we are learning from them.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by yourbitterpill

Yes, we already DID terminate this, as I stated in my last post. And we both agree mistakes were made and we are learning from them.

Sorry that wasn't very prominent in the post.

I'm sorry that you are regarding the posts as being disrespectful when you asked. It seems to me the disrespect is far closer to home for you than this board.

Good luck I hope it works out for the two of you.

[yourbitterpill]

Originally Posted by Gordo

I'm sorry that you are regarding the posts as being disrespectful when you asked. It seems to me the disrespect is far closer to home for you than this board.

....Never mind...

[rpu3]

Can we all move on from this subject? It's becoming quite disrespectful...

It's a public forum. Everyone has been polite in their responses. I see no "disrespectful" posts. I find it more disrespectful that you seem to be dictating how and when Board members should post. You asked your questions and you posted your thoughts; you are getting responses, even if the responses aren't what you like.

Good luck in your future alternative endeavors.

[realcplub2]

Ok.. Here is my take on this..

Mr Bitterpill, Not knowing all the particulars, is irrelavant, The taller issue is, Do you really understand the meaning of having an open marriage? From what I am reading thus far, your definition is a bit different, than what most consider it.

This other couple, your former swing playmates from out of state, Do both parties know whats going on around the old home town? Next, I find it a bit convienent that a week after having the first conversation about it, He suddenly is back in town for a week.

Skip ahead, to your personal relationship.. Let me get this striaght, Your wife has to ask permission to date, and then get your personal go ahead to take it to another level?

Forgive me, this seems more like so reverse cuckholding.. rather than an open relationship on whatever level. to answer your original question..

Yes you are being way too controling.. If you are going to place trust in your wife to make the descions that she has then its up to her to decide what happens, with who and when..

Lets slip those little ruby slippers on your pinky toes.. Suppose it was the other wife, in town for a week asking you to meet for dinner and who knows what other types of fun.. Would you expect your wife to be incontrol of the wheres and whens?

You have alread given her the go aheead to play privately, either change that, or accept it..

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by yourbitterpill

I have to strongly disagree with you here. Our marriage is the primary relationship and takes precedence over all others. As such, there are agreed upon rules that both of us have willingly acknowledged to follow. One of those rules is that either one of us can slow down or put a slight hold on either's secondary relationships, so long as we have a good reason. Another rule is no intimate contact on the first date (unless agreed upon beforehand) and to keep in contact with one another if plan's change. These rules were agreed upon by both Mrs. Pill and the prospective partner the week before the meetup.

I won't go into details about why Mrs. Pill's last relationship ended so abruptly but I will say that her last BF lied through omission and disrespected her. Because of that, I was apprehensive about this new partner (our prior relationship with them as a couple ended because of communication issues).

Recently, it came to light that this new partner was NOT telling his wife everything that had occured and, from his last email, it seemed to be a turn-on for him. Because of that, both Mrs. Pill and myself have decided to end their relationship before anyone gets hurt.

For an open marriage to work, both partners need to abide by mutual rules, communicate on a regular basis, respect each others feelings, and only go as quickly as the slowest person. To follow your reasoning, Julie, it would seem that you think that either partner should be able to go off and do whatever and whomever they'd like, regardless of their primary partner's feelings on that issue. If that is the case, then what's the point of being married or having a primary relationship?

There's actually a lot of info in this post that you didn't include in your first post. No, I don't believe that either partner should be able to just go off and do what they want without regard to the other. But, based on your initial post I also didn't feel you had a good reason to restrict her or slow her down on moving forward with this particular person. You did not express any reason other than that the previous relationship ended badly. What does the previous relationship have to do with the new? NOTHING.

THat said, you've now said that you stopped swinging with this couple previously (the same couple, that this guy who now wants to swing with your wife is half of) because of communication issues. That is a valid reason to not swing with them again (in any form). You did not make this information clear in your original post, you made it sound like there was really no reason not to swing this couple or this half of a couple, other than that the previous relationship ended badly.

Now, you have not said what the communication issues were. They may have been minor, or someone may have lied and created a reason to not trust them. If you don't trust them then you shouldn't have even been ok with her going out with this guy socially. From more recent (evidently) involvement with them it's become clearer that the guy is to not be trusted, so perhaps your radar was going off early and you just didn't realize why. In either case if you don't trust someone, you don't trust them and that's ok. You are allowed to make that call. But, you should also be able to make that clear to your partner (that you don't trust them) and that should be enough. And like I said, if you don't trust someone, then you shouldn't even be sending your wife out with them socially (and if she knew you didn't trust them then she probably wouldn't want to). But, since you weren't being clear with her as to why you didn't want her going out with him (at least I'm guessing from what you posted and from what happened that you weren't being any more clear with her than you were with us) then you came off as being a control freak.

In order for me to give heed to my partners feelings I have to know what they are. An unclear well I just don't want you to, isn't enough. That just comes off as selfish and it sounds more like a parent saying "because I said so". We are adults and we each get a say in the relationship that means each partner has to clearly state the reason behind their feelings, or at least what their feelings are, not just "because I don't want you to".