Swapping with a single outside the lifestyle

[Lovemates28]

My husband met this girl through work and became friends with her. One thing led to another (with my knowledge and permission, of course) and they have been playing on the side for a few months now.

Here's the kicker. She's terrified of me. I trust that my husband hasn't been telling her bad things about me behind my back, but she's just terrified of meeting her lovers wife. For example, I went to meet my husband for lunch at his work one day. My husband mentioned to this girl that I was coming and she freaked out and hid the entire time I was at his work, just so we won't run into each other or even pass each other in a hallway. Ridiculous!

Even worse, my husband got invited to her birthday party. But when he mentioned that he would be bringing me with him (since he doesn't know any of her friends), she uninvited him! After much back and forth, she decided to compromise with him. She would tell him where they were going, so we could "happen" to be there and run into them, but we still weren't technically invited. So for dinner, she wants us to be in the same restaurant, but she's not going to invite us to sit at her table! This seems absolutely, insanely stupid to me.

It's obvious she doesn't understand how this lifestyle works. She's treating the entire situation as if they are going around behind my back, even though my husband tells me what goes on with them. And the fact that she's so terrified of meeting me, even though she knows nothing about me, makes me wonder what she's feeling so guilty about. I don't want to be standing in the bedroom when they're going at it, I just don't want to feel like I'm completely outside the situation!

I realize that an easy solution to this problem would be to just have my husband stop having sex with her. But it would be such a shame because they are good friends and they have good chemistry. Another option would be an ultimatim, either meet the wife or no more sex with the husband. But I can't see how any meeting so forced like that could have any kind of positive results! So, does anyone have other advice for this situation?

Also, what kind of experience have you had with singles that are outside the lifestyle? Is it possible for them to understand? Have you had good experiences? Bad ones that you can share what went wrong?

Thanks in advanced everyone!

[IvoryTowers]

Call her and invite her out to lunch. I think if you want this to work you need to stop going through your husband and make contact yourself. If she won't go out to lunch with you, then your husband should call it off. If she will, pick a nice public place where she'll feel safe and calmly tell her what's up with your life and how she fits into it.

[rpu3]

Wow....

I am in an open marriage. Our deal is that I am introduced to his friends if he thinks it's going somewhere.

The Spousal Unit does make it explicitly clear about his marital status. He also makes it clear that I may very likely want to meet them. I have asked to meet three of his friends. Not one of them balked, at least not to MY face. It's a tad awkward, but we've all managed to live and it really makes things more comfortable for everyone, and is a very vivid reminder that this is an open marriage, I do exist, I'm not going anywhere in the foreseeable future and neither is The Spousal Unit and this is how we handle things - can you (the other woman) accept this arrangement?

Honestly, if any of them balk at that, then that's a big clue for both me and The Spousal Unit that this may not be a workable arrangmenet with that person. Sometimes that's how it plays out.

I personally WOULD put my foot down and force the issue. There could be the positive result that she meets you and she finally "gets" it and chills the heck out. Or else both of you may find that her intents and goals regarding her relationship with your husband do not fit within your boundaries. I realize that this may not be a good option for you. In my case, something smells off in your situation, and I would not tolerate that from a friend of my husband's in my situation. I don't know what the heck is wrong with a cup of coffee, drinks or lunch between the three of you.

[iapr]

And this doesn't bother you?

This isn't swinging and this isn't polyamory and it isn't really even cheating because technically you are aware of it and aren't actively protesting. The only way I can describe this is it is a sanctioned affair. They are having an affair in every sense of the word, the only difference is you know about it and have thus far approaved it. I just want to know why you have approaved of it and let it go on like this for so long.

He is definately having his cake and eating it too and I think you have a good point when you ask what is in it for you. The way I see it, there isn't really anything in it for you. You are just loaning out your husband to someone who isn't even appreciative or providing you with anything in return.

Regardless of what has or has not been said to her, she obviously believes that he and her are having an affair and she is ashamed of it and does not want you or any of her freinds to know about it. This is just a dirty little secret to her.

This is a problem and it is not a swinger issue as this is NOT swinging. Swinging is something a couple does together for their mutual enjoyment as a couple. this is just fucking around and boarish behaviour. He is using both of you women for his benifit and each of you is coming out on the short end of the stick.

I think his behaviour is poor and that he is taking advantage of both of you. He is telling you that you are swinging and this is some kind of swinging activity and therefor you should sanction it (you should definately NOT!!!) and he is probably telling her that he is in love with her and that he is plotting to leave you so that they can be together.

He is lying to both of you. He is telling you that you are swinging and that this is ok and that you should put up with it. And he is lying to her in some way about the nature of all of this. he is either telling her that he is getting ready to leave you or he is telling her that you are so dumb and that he has you so bullshitted that you don't know what is truly going on between them. Either way this is a whole different reality to her than it is to you.

Either way this is not swinging it is an affair. You may have been mislead into believing it was swinging, but to the both of them they are conducting themselves as if it were an affair.

Words mean nothing, actions mean everything. Just take a hard look at their actions.

I am sorry this is happening to you and I wish you the best.

[BiloxiCouple]

And you haven't talked to her to find out what your husband is ACTUALLY telling her? There may actually be a reason she is terrified to meet you.

When something doesn't sound right it probably isn't. This doesn't sound right.

There are alot of things going wrong with this situation and the "girlfriend" should not carry all the blame. In fact she has very little of it, if any.

Unless you and your husband fix how both of you are handling this situation then

[IvoryTowers]

Originally Posted by iapr

This isn't swinging and this isn't polyamory and it isn't really even cheating because technically you are aware of it and aren't actively protesting. The only way I can describe this is it is a sanctioned affair....

He is definately having his cake and eating it too and I think you have a good point when you ask what is in it for you. The way I see it, there isn't really anything in it for you.

I disagree. First of all, one partner in a couple having a second relationship with the full knowledge and support of the other partner is, in fact, the definition of polyamory! And there are enough people on this board who have solo sex that I think it could be called swinging (although I do recognize that most swingers play together).

Second, the OP didn't ask what was "in it" for her. She seems perfectly happy to allow her husband to have relationships outside their marriage without going all tit for tat on him. Maybe she has her own secondary relationship. Maybe they play together and that's enough for her. Or maybe she's a monogamous person who accepts and supports her husband's desire for variety. It does happen.

If she had expressed any unhappiness with the situation itself, I would have made different suggestions, but she seems to only care that this woman can't face meeting her. If the woman was willing to meet the wife and comfortable with that, would you still consider it fucking around, using both women, and boorish behavior?

[PB&J]

It doesn't sound like polyamory to me, because IMHO polyamory would imply some sort of relationship, if only that of friendly co-existence, between the two women. While the OP is up for that, obviously the co-worker is not. I think that the basic problem is that co-worker does not understand the concept of open marriage. So she's looking for the something different from this relationship than the OP (and hopefully her husband) expect it to be. If she can't wrap her head around it, there will be tears, sooner or later. For her own sake, she'd be better off out of it if she's not going to be comfortable with it.

[iapr]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowers

I disagree. First of all, one partner in a couple having a second relationship with the full knowledge and support of the other partner is, in fact, the definition of polyamory! And there are enough people on this board who have solo sex that I think it could be called swinging (although I do recognize that most swingers play together).

Second, the OP didn't ask what was "in it" for her. She seems perfectly happy to allow her husband to have relationships outside their marriage without going all tit for tat on him. Maybe she has her own secondary relationship. Maybe they play together and that's enough for her. Or maybe she's a monogamous person who accepts and supports her husband's desire for variety. It does happen.

If she had expressed any unhappiness with the situation itself, I would have made different suggestions, but she seems to only care that this woman can't face meeting her. If the woman was willing to meet the wife and comfortable with that, would you still consider it fucking around, using both women, and boorish behavior?

The last post that the OP made on this board was approx 21/2 years ago. If nothing else the fact that this situation has caused her to come back and post a heartfelt question like this leads me to believe she is not "perfectly happy" with this situation. If if were not causing her a degree of distress we would not have ever heard about it.

As far as your last question, if the OP and the other had some form of relationship and acknowledgement and everyone was good with it, then no I would not consider it fucking around or exploitive boorish behavior. At that point it would be consenting adults with informed consent and agreement by all. That is not occuring here.

If you smell something fishy the chances are there are some smelly fish nearby and this whole situation definately smells fishy.

[slevin]

I actually wonder if this chick isn't secretly hoping that your husband will leave you for her. Or if she just treats him like her boyfriend (even though she knows you're aware of the situation) and meeting you, talking to you etc. will ruin her little fantasy situation. Hard to say without knowing more about the situation, but that was the first thing that popped into my mind.

It is definitely bothering you and this is something that you need to talk to your husband about. Be candid, let him know that the relationship doesn't bother you, but that the fact she won't meet you hurts. That you are happy for him to have a relationship with her or someone else, but that you want to at least be able to meet her, socialize with her and get to know her a bit too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and if your husband gives you any flack about bringing that up then I'd be pissed if I were you and worried that his 'affair' means more to him than his relationship with you. If he immediately takes your concerns into account and wants to do something about it, then no worries.

Talk to him!

[MapleCpl]

My wife and I are swingers, also in an open relationship. I (male half) have had several relationships with other women with my wife's consent.
Over time, I introduced these women to my wife and we all ended up playing together. There was a single lady who used to sleep over on some weekends, and all 3 of us would end up sleeping together in the basement bedroom so that our kids would NOT hear us going at it.....we told the kids she was a long time friend of my wife who moved to another city and came in to the big city to party every now and then.
Some of those relationships lasted longer than others, but I always made sure to introduce the ladies to my wife, this way her mind would be at ease.

Of course, she would always ask all kinds of questions and check them out from top to bottom as she wanted to make sure no lady had any secondary plan to keep me and that I'd leave the home.
I still go to regular Vanilla bars looking for potential girlfriends, then tell them about my marital status and eventually try to bring them into the mix.
It is my opinion that this lady is has secondary plans for the husband and is terrified if the wife found out what those plans are.

*****Never met a lady we didn't like******

[Lovemates28]

First of all, I do not appreciate the negative comments against my husband. He is not going to leave me for this girl, he is not misleading or lying to me, he is not having an affair, and he is not saying bad things about me behind my back. How do I know this? Because he is my husband and I know him. You do not. Plus, I trust him. If I didn't trust him, we would have a whole other truck load of problems and we wouldn't be swinging. If you think he is doing something inappropriate in this situation, do voice your opinion. But remember that you are speaking about my husband so please try to do so with some respect.

I think I am going to go to lunch with my husband again this week and at very least stop in and say hi to this girl and chat. From everything I've heard about her, I think we'll get along well. I think it may just be getting over the initial meet and doing that without living up to the terrifying image she has of "the wife". But my husband has decided that he will not sleep with her until we come to some resolution for the situation, either that I meet her and approve or we make it a permanent "hands off".

As for our lifestyle, my husband and I both swing. We've swapped with some couples, which is great, but we've also been with singles on occasion. But this was our first experience with someone not already in the lifestyle to some degree. That's why I was interested in coming on here and asking for advice.

[JustAskJulie]

I've been there...

I don't think your husband is telling her anything bad or leading her to believe anything that isn't true... unfortunately, I don't think he has to.

What I found both when playing solo (in an open marriage) and as a single female is that very often singles (females and males) in the hopes of getting the romantic relationship they really want will tell themselves what they want to hear, regardless of what the person they are having sex with is telling them.

When I was single, I reminded the guys I had sex with OFTEN that it was just sex... and if they didn't seem to want to believe that they weren't the only one... I eventually showed them proof.

I was in your (husband's) situation in my first marriage. We had an open marriage and I often had guys on the side. One guy in particular I kept trying to get to meet my husband and he just was not comfortable with it. He could not wrap his head around the idea of swinging, and I guess for him it was easier to convince himself I was cheating on my husband than to accept reality. I did finally get him to meet my husband, but then I never saw him again. He just could not accept the reality of the situation.

I think that might be what is going on with this girl. The reality is SO FAR outside of her norm and her comfort zone. Cheating is ok, because it's normal and almost accepted in society. It doesn't matter if he's leaving you (or if she's even telling herself that) in her mind that is ok. But, the idea of an open marriage (where you really and truely know everything that is going on) is not ok. She doesn't believe it to be true.

The advice someone else gave to call her up and invite her out yourself (or even just talk to her on the phone and say "yes I know, and it's ok, let's be friends is probably good advice. Just understand that it could mean the end for this relationship (with her).

[ic7175]

I wouldn't suggest meeting her unannounced at lunch as she will be at work (if i understood your post). This is probably the place she would be least comfortable meeting you.

The suggestion to call and ask for about meeting is best. If she shoots that down you know where she stands and you and your husband can then decide how to handle it.

[fun4Ds]

First I think you should understand that we don't swing solo/separate in any form. We prefer to not only interact with others, but each other as well, while engaging in sex. Its our thing, and it works for us. However, we do play with singles. So this is my point of view as a married man involved with single women.

Originally Posted by Lovemates28

My husband met this girl through work and became friends with her. One thing led to another (with my knowledge and permission, of course) and they have been playing on the side for a few months now.

Bad idea !! Why did you decide this was worth it ? I swing, But I need my job. Personally, my employer doesn't care. But I think having swinger sex with a single female under these circumstances would be questionable. I like my job real well.... The single females I have played with, know that....

Here's the kicker. She's terrified of me. I trust that my husband hasn't been telling her bad things about me behind my back, but she's just terrified of meeting her lovers wife. For example, I went to meet my husband for lunch at his work one day. My husband mentioned to this girl that I was coming and she freaked out and hid the entire time I was at his work, just so we won't run into each other or even pass each other in a hallway. Ridiculous!

I don't understand... Are you a big woman and she's tiny ?

Otherwise, things look misleading somehow to me ?

Even worse, my husband got invited to her birthday party. But when he mentioned that he would be bringing me with him (since he doesn't know any of her friends), she uninvited him! After much back and forth, she decided to compromise with him. She would tell him where they were going, so we could "happen" to be there and run into them, but we still weren't technically invited. So for dinner, she wants us to be in the same restaurant, but she's not going to invite us to sit at her table! This seems absolutely, insanely stupid to me.

I wouldn't want to be at that birthday party. In fact I have to think MR Lovemates needs to be responsible for recourse at this time. I could never put myself in a swinging situation that would jeopardies my wifes character at any table or party in life. Recourse is pretty important, I've learned....

It's obvious she doesn't understand how this lifestyle works. She's treating the entire situation as if they are going around behind my back, even though my husband tells me what goes on with them. And the fact that she's so terrified of meeting me, even though she knows nothing about me, makes me wonder what she's feeling so guilty about. I don't want to be standing in the bedroom when they're going at it, I just don't want to feel like I'm completely outside the situation!

I could never be involved with a woman who doesn't understand how and why we play together ? I really think Mr Lovemates, needs to reevaluate this. I would think having to do so through a work venue, really sucks.....

Another option would be an ultimatum, either meet the wife or no more sex with the husband. But I can't see how any meeting so forced like that could have any kind of positive results!

I can, but is it worth it ?

[IvoryTowers]

Originally Posted by Lovemates28

I think I am going to go to lunch with my husband again this week and at very least stop in and say hi to this girl and chat. From everything I've heard about her, I think we'll get along well. I think it may just be getting over the initial meet and doing that without living up to the terrifying image she has of "the wife". But my husband has decided that he will not sleep with her until we come to some resolution for the situation, either that I meet her and approve or we make it a permanent "hands off".

Good for you and for your husband! I hope the meeting goes well and this woman can wrap her head around an open relationship. But if not, I applaud your husband for stepping back and valuing your comfort and the bond you two have over this relationship.

I will say it doesn't speak well for this woman that she seems to believe (despite what she's been told) that she's having a secret affair, but since that is a huge cultural norm I guess she can't be faulted too much.

Let us know what happens!