The Big Day...

[pants_1]

Ok, so I've been on here all of like 24 hours, but y'all seem really nice and supportive. So I thought I'd bend your ear(s).

My wife and I just started an open relationship. I've thought this whole thing through a lot (see my other posts), and I'm sure we are making the right decision for us. But I also know that this is a big paradigm shift in our relationship, and our lives in general. I've been around long enough to know that it takes time to accomodate change. I already went through one period of "shock/ mourning/ 12 steps/ whatever" when we first decided to go ahead. After patiently letting it sit for about ten days, until the initial weird "everything has changed" feeling went away, I took charge of the situation and joined some sites like this one. Making the whole thing "mine" really helped.

My wife was in no hurry to find someone, and she is VERY picky (part of the reason we swing separately), so I had figured I would probably be the first one to "get some a**," as she so delicately put it. That was my plan for easing into the next stage of the process. I believe that the real hangup for most guys is the feeling that you own your wife's body... I figured if I made the first move, establishing that she doesn't own my body, some of that might be abated. And yes, we did consider a couples meeting to ease into it (not that I think that would necessarily help).

However, plans got changed because of scheduling, and I wanted her to take a very good opportunity while she could. So, rather abruptly, she's leaving tomorrow for her first "date." Apart from some minor irritation that she finalized her schedule before confirming that I was free this weekend to babysit, that was cool with me.

So, I'm not sure what to expect this weekend. I'm stuck at home: can't play at the house, so even if I had a local prospect, that would be out. I'm going to make sure I exercise and eat properly, meditate (my little secret weapon), and get as much rest as I can. During the day, it's daddy time, so I am covered, but at night, it'll be just me, myself, and I.

I am pretty much expecting more of the whole "shock/ mourning/ 12 steps/ everything has changed" thing again. I am a bit of a stewer, and I DON'T want to get myself worked up being obsessive about what is "going on."
Maybe I'm just being silly... I'm a big boy, and I have thought this through ALOT. I am sure I should just trust myself.

On the other hand, I caught myself being a little testy after the whole making-plans-without-checking-the-actual-dates-with-me thing. I was probably also feeling a teensy bit jealous because she gets to go off and have fun and I don't. Or that she stayed up late chatting with the guy last night rather than going to bed with me when I expressed an interest in having sex. And apparently she hadn't really caught the fact that I was going to be gone all day and part of the night tonight, so I wouldn't really see her at all after that.

I didn't make a big deal out of it, because I had already decided that I was going to let it all go for now. She was a little inconsiderate, but she's acting like a teenager, and teenagers do that. She's been a little defensive about it so far, so I suspect she's got some emotional stuff going on too. I'll bring up maturity and consideration with her later, but I don't want to rain on her parade right now, and I don't want it to turn into a huge guilt-trip.

Ok, folks, please don't read too much into that. I'm trying to be honest here... These are little things: if I thought jealousy would be a real problem, I'd have called all this off. What worries me is that I just don't want this to turn into a bad experience for me. I don't want to carry those tiny little issues through the weekend, and blow them all out of proportion by obsessing over them. And I really want her to enjoy every part of her weekend. If she comes home and finds me unhappy, or senses hesitation or weirdness, then next time she plays she will spend more time worrying about how I am than having a good time. Or worse, feel guilty about the whole thing.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Apart from masturbation, of course.

[NCfuncouple98]

Originally Posted by pants_1

Ok, so I've been on here all of like 24 hours, but y'all seem really nice and supportive. So I thought I'd bend your ear(s).

My wife and I just started an open relationship.

However, plans got changed because of scheduling, and I wanted her to take a very good opportunity while she could. So, rather abruptly, she's leaving tomorrow for her first "date." Apart from some minor irritation that she finalized her schedule before confirming that I was free this weekend to babysit, that was cool with me.

So, I'm not sure what to expect this weekend. I'm stuck at home: can't play at the house, so even if I had a local prospect, that would be out. I'm going to make sure I exercise and eat properly, meditate (my little secret weapon), and get as much rest as I can. During the day, it's daddy time, so I am covered, but at night, it'll be just me, myself, and I.

I am pretty much expecting more of the whole "shock/ mourning/ 12 steps/ everything has changed" thing again. I am a bit of a stewer, and I DON'T want to get myself worked up being obsessive about what is "going on."
Maybe I'm just being silly... I'm a big boy, and I have thought this through ALOT. I am sure I should just trust myself.

On the other hand, I caught myself being a little testy after the whole making-plans-without-checking-the-actual-dates-with-me thing. I was probably also feeling a teensy bit jealous because she gets to go off and have fun and I don't. Or that she stayed up late chatting with the guy last night rather than going to bed with me when I expressed an interest in having sex. And apparently she hadn't really caught the fact that I was going to be gone all day and part of the night tonight, so I wouldn't really see her at all after that.

I didn't make a big deal out of it, because I had already decided that I was going to let it all go for now. She was a little inconsiderate, but she's acting like a teenager, and teenagers do that. She's been a little defensive about it so far, so I suspect she's got some emotional stuff going on too. I'll bring up maturity and consideration with her later, but I don't want to rain on her parade right now, and I don't want it to turn into a huge guilt-trip.

Ok, folks, please don't read too much into that. I'm trying to be honest here... These are little things: if I thought jealousy would be a real problem, I'd have called all this off. What worries me is that I just don't want this to turn into a bad experience for me. I don't want to carry those tiny little issues through the weekend, and blow them all out of proportion by obsessing over them. And I really want her to enjoy every part of her weekend. If she comes home and finds me unhappy, or senses hesitation or weirdness, then next time she plays she will spend more time worrying about how I am than having a good time. Or worse, feel guilty about the whole thing.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions? Apart from masturbation, of course.

Since you've got some down-time this weekend, may I recommend some good reading? Read this, take 2 aspirin, and make damn sure this doesn't happen to your marriage.

http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...-marriage.html

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by pants_1

My wife was in no hurry to find someone, and she is VERY picky (part of the reason we swing separately), so I had figured I would probably be the first one to "get some a**," as she so delicately put it.

Yes, well now you know, thats not how this works.

Good luck, you are going to need it, apparently your wife isn't THAT picky and you just turned this into a separate lives thing, not a together thing.

Most people can't handle it, and I have a hunch you guys are going to fall into that category pretty quick. Especially when she wants a second date, and a third and you are still getting no where.

[tcphoenix]

Read that soap opera that NCfuncouple98 posted, the sooner the better. Tell me that thread doesn't give you a sense of deja vue? Carefully consider where you go from here, that thread almost single handedly convinced my wife and I to choose pursuing swinging vice an open relationship.

[socolais]

Think of the event as a gift to your wife - be supportive, encourage her to have a wonderful time. Even though it was her idea, she's likely concerned about all the uncertainty. Don't give her any more to worry about.

Playing separately is certainly not the easiest way, and it works just fine for many folks. Be open to other opportunities and modes of play as they come along.

Good luck to both of you

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by socolais

Think of the event as a gift to your wife - be supportive, encourage her to have a wonderful time. Even though it was her idea, she's likely concerned about all the uncertainty. Don't give her any more to worry about.

Playing separately is certainly not the easiest way, and it works just fine for many folks. Be open to other opportunities and modes of play as they come along.

Good luck to both of you

I'm going to have to disagree, my first thought on reading this thread like others was 'loki version 2'.

Setting up a separate play date for a FIRST time extramarital sex experience is risky to say the least. My wife and I can play separately now, but that was only after a lot of playing together and really being comfortable with the people involved. I know, without a doubt, that if my wife and I tried something like this to start it would have been an unmitigated disaster for us.

A vacation is a nice gift to the wife.
A new car is a nice gift.
A single male in an open relationship is a nice gift that will test the real strength of your marriage, maximally.

pants_1 - Unless you are the kind of guy who really gets off on his wife having sex with other men (aka hot wife) I'd reconsider this. I'll also add that if you tell your wife you are not comfortable she starts to get angry or protest then you REALLY need to reconsider this. Always remember YOUR relationship, your happiness TOGETHER comes first. As soon as you start 'taking one for the team' in terms of not being happy but not wanting to spoil her fun you are really setting yourself up for a bad time. Your wife will have 100* the opportunity to play that you do, its the nature of casual sex.

[dnmnms]

Originally Posted by pants_1

However, plans got changed because of scheduling, and I wanted her to take a very good opportunity while she could. So, rather abruptly, she's leaving tomorrow for her first "date." Apart from some minor irritation that she finalized her schedule before confirming that I was free this weekend to babysit, that was cool with me.

Initially we first began our talks with considering an open marriage. After alot of talk, we decided we both are more into sharing the experience with each other rather than apart. But each person/couple is different.
Also, I know I have set the pace on our play as I tend to take things at a slower pace than hubby does. But that is okay. Time and getting comfortable with myself has helped me.


But, I do have one teeny negative I gotta get off my chest. Sorry, I am a female and am very opinionated.
Not sure why you feel that being with home while she goes out is considered "babysitting". Unless they are not your children, you staying home with them is being a dad not a babysitter. Seems that usually its men (not saying all men) who term it babysitting.

OK, whew I feel better now. I will get down off my soapbox.

But, I also agree that I would be upset if my hubby made plans without discussing it with me. Before either of us will commit we sit down and talk about it. If either of us decide its a no-go then thats the way it is. No questions asked and we both know that there will be no anger regarding any decision.

Melody

[pants_1]

Thanks for all the input everybody. And I really appreciate the concern. Could someone direct me to the "soap opera that NCfuncouple98 posted?"

Also, I don't really consider watching my son "babysitting." I misspoke. We're going to go swimming a couple times, and I'm planning a small pizza party for us. We haven't had much time together recently, so this is father-son time.

Anyway, I do think there may be a couple of misunderstandings here, from my perspective. I think I may have given the impression that there is more drama here than I feel there is. Note that I am NOT going to tell you that you're wrong... I may not understand my own situation. I do know that sometimes theory and practice turn out very differently. This is just how I see it (now):

• I do know that women get more opportunities than men. My wife has already slept with more people than me, and I don't think that's ever going to change. I would really hope I'm not going to be "keeping score."
  
• For the record (not that it matters), she IS picky. I've never seen a single male profile on any of these sites that comes close to fitting the bill (and yes, I do look). She's checked out several sites, and gave up on them. This was a pretty big fluke.
  
• She did consult me before making her plans, we just didn't discuss the particular days she had in mind. And she forgot to ask about my schedule, so we had some awkward moments, like today when I had to drive to the store because I had left my wallet in her car, and I didn't realize she wasn't coming back. Sounds flakey, huh? there's a reason:
  
• My wife is a part-time graduate student, part-time stay-at-home-mom, and part-time in training for athletic competition. That she is distracted may have something to do with the fact that she has just started a new training regimen [sic?], where she works out until 7 or 8 on MWF, and gets up at 5 in the morning TR to go train. I can't sub out for her on those days, so she has to come back, take our son to school, pick him up, then keep up with a rowdy almost-four-year-old until he goes to bed (I take him at 5:00 MWF). She was a little sensitive and distracted just now when I got home... because she has had about five hours of sleep in the past 48 hours or so! Does that justify hurting my feelings? No. Should she be more sensitive and considerate? Yes. Should I cut her a little slack? Maybe...
  
• The fact that my wife is going off to visit some guy for the weekend is not my problem. I'm pretty comfortable with the idea. I'm not really taking one for the team: she goes off for a weekend, which means I'll get to take off some other time, if and when I find playmates. Cool. Maybe I never find somebody... whatever. I'll go visit friends.
  

So then, WTF is my problem, anyway?

• The problem is that I have to get through this first awkward, uncomfortable time alone. I don't think it has much to do with how we swing... it would have been awkward anyway (say, as a couple). Honestly, I rather prefer not watching right now... the physical distance translates to emotional distance for me. Like I said, she's had sex with other people before, but that is separated from me in space and time too. When we first started seeing each other, I didn't want to hear about them. Now I don't care. It just takes some time.
  
• My other problem may be some kind of OCD or something... I stew. Usually while cleaning the fish tank. It's really dumb, and I always realize later that I've been doing it. But I really don't want to make myself miserable this weekend.
  
• One of our problems as a couple is that we have needs that the other person can't meet. They aren't all sexual, either. Well... hers aren't. We can enjoy ourselves together in many many ways, but there are some ways we can't. And, unfortunately, those are ways she doesn't feel she can do without. And yes, I said "she..." she is the rate-limiting factor here. And yes, that does seem selfish of her, and yes, she does realize that she looks like a monster for this, and yes, I look like a patsy for going along with it. Those are crosses we'll have to bear.
  
• I am not worried that we won't get through this weekend. We've always been good communicators... if something really bad happens, we'll deal with it. If everything falls apart, we'll deal with that, too. We've already discussed divorce, and we have a protocol for how it would work. Sick, huh?
  
• We have had a lot of issues, largely surrounding this particular subject. She is the one who can't do without, so she is the one who will bear most of the blame if this doesn't work. She accepts that. I love my wife, and I really want to stay together, but I'm not going to let the fear of losing my marriage rule my life. I want to take this risk, and I'm willing to bet the farm. Maybe that's unromantic, but it's a big move for me personally, because I've always had a fear of abandonment.
  

Anyway, sincere thanks to everybody for their thoughts. I know some of you will probably just shake your heads and think "poor fool." And I honestly do appreciate the sentiment, because I've watched lots of people go down what I've really believed is the wrong path. I'll let you know how it goes!

Jon

P.S. Ok, now I am beginning to understand a lot more what people mean when they say "no drama!" LOL!

[2inSanDiego4u]

Like the other poster said, this is a must read:

http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...-marriage.html

Read it ALL.

Then answer four questions honestly: How was your relationship with your wife prior to considering an open marriage? Why do you want an open marriage, each of you? Do you really think your relationship can survive it? And last but not least -- is it really worth risking your relationship over it?

[pants_1]

Ok, time for Jon to eat some crow.

I didn't get through the whole Loki thing. I didn't have to. I'm not sure I want to know how it ends, honestly. I got waaaay too creeped out.

Can I just say right now that you guys are really terrific? Honestly. I'm sorry for being a pompous ass. And I'm sorry for the drama! When I got to the term "drama swingers," I think I actually blushed!

Some of what you all said still doesn't quite fit with my situation, but you got me to thinking about it. And so did that thread. And so did a buddy of mine who just happens to be up late at night, and have TONS of experience!

Honestly, right now, security is my paramount concern. I am guilty of assuming my wife knows what she is talking about, and what she wants. Typical me mistake! Like any of us do? I'm acquiescing to an adrenaline junky going into a super-risky situation far away from me. Very thrilling... I'd be excited too. DUMB. Why is it that no matter how lucid your judgement is, you can never turn it on yourself?

The behaviour pattern in the Loki post really struck me. Not that I'm saying she's doing that, but it is disturbing. Even if she's tired, if I behaved the wayshe is, she'd say I was obsessing. DUMB.

Tonight, when we talked about how we would explain the situation to our son, she said she had told him she was going away for work, and she even went into "details." I even asked her how she felt about lying to her son, and she blew it off. Not that we planned to tell him in detail, but I would have skirted the truth a bit more closely. Of course, she doesn't want her mother to know we swing.

She could very well be turning to this as a hail mary; if she's just plain bored, and can't stand being tied down, naturally she'd be thinking that something like this would work. And what then? If it doesn't, she would just need more, no?

I'm actually beginning to wonder what exactly it is that she can't get from our relationship. It isn't sex, and it isn't friendship. I think it is just adrenaline. I don't think she'll be satisfied. She's not happy with a grueling workout five days a week. What will be enough? When does lying become exciting? Or cheating? Obviously, risking her life is on the table already.

I'm completely guilty of being suckered in by the fantasy of this all. That's very embarrassing. I should have known when it started feeling like being single. Not because of the rejection, like I initially thought, but because even acceptance doesn't bring anyone really closer to you. I like to engage people. Am I going to engage someone if we're just meeting for sex? I dunno, but I doubt it. And would I really want to?

Do COUPLES swing together so they can get the intimacy (from their partner) that they would be missing with just sex (with someone else)? And you are all right, there there really is a big difference between chatting online and playing for real. I'm going to have to seriously reconsider my feelings on the latter.

So, tomorrow morning, after the boy is in school, I'm gonna sit her down, and lay out my concerns. I'm going to tell her that I'm going to put my "activities" (such as they are) on hiatus, whether she does or not, until I can get a better handle on this. I'm not sure this is for me.

If she still wants to fly out to meet this guy, she can, but over my strongest objections. With any luck, it'll all be on the up and up, or she'll figure out that it's not good really fast. I will expect her to call me every six hours, and if she doesn't, I'll be sending the boy to his grandmother's and flying standby to Tucson.

I'll ask her to talk to a professional about adrenaline vs. judgement. I'll point out that if she can't check her behavior, it could be a risk to our son. She hates the thought of therapy. She may not understand, she may sulk, or blame me for ruining her fun. I'll take THAT one "for the team."

May whatever forces might be at work out there have mercy on me, because I am about to take both barrels right in the mouth!

[fun4Ds]

I think you are missing something Jon.

In swinging, there is one rule. NO means NO !

I dont care if we are fucking our brains out and either one of us say no! It's over at that moment, no questions asked. Then we would talk.... You both have allot to learn...

Everyone here is experianced in swinging and will by now, after reading this, conclude that one of you should say NO. Your not ready for this ! You can type till your fingers fall off trying to convince me that your reasons for not saying NO are justified.

I dont believe you two are on the same page.....

[slevin]

I definitely agree with the other posters and though there was a lot of frustration for a lot of people replying to the Loki thread, it has been a great source of reference for you and others. Glad it continues to be a warning

For your situation Chicup has the right idea; bring up that you're having second thoughts and would like you and her to put off seeing anyone outside your marriage until you can get more comfortable. If she gets angry, or refuses to break her plans, or completely dismisses your thoughts and goes anyway...then you've got a problem. Don't tell her that you're putting off you meeting anyone, but she can do whatever she wants. That is passive aggressive hoping she will agree and cancel her weekend. Tell her you're not comfortable and would like to put things on hold for right now. See what she says/does.

Flying out to see some guy for the weekend? Bad news for a first meeting; who is paying for the flight? How long have they been chatting online? How did she meet him online?

You mention adrenaline and why isn't she getting enough excitement out of working out 5 days a week? It sounds like perhaps her boredom is more with the relationship than with a lack of adrenaline. Not that you are boring, but you laid out a very busy and stressful week that she has. Perhaps this is her seeking refuge from reality (also a very bad thing)?

Do you and she do much together outside of the house? Do you try new things together? Do you take her to do things she loves to do? Does she surprise you with things you like to do? Do you spend time with your friends? Does she spend time with hers (when not working out)?

I'm a firm supporter of putting things on hold until you sort things out. Honestly, I get the feeling that she had this guy in her mind already and wanted to meet/fuck him. She may be picky, but my suspicion is that he was already in the picture when this all came up.

[pants_1]

but my suspicion is that he was already in the picture when this all came up.

Not this particular guy... a whole class of people. She knew they were out there.

I'm going to try and let everyone off the hook here as succinctly as possible, with as little drama as I can manage. We've talked this through, and here's where it stands. I'll do the bullet thing again, if you don't mind.

• The marriage is kind of dead at the core. I'm not sure it was ever alive in the sense that you guys would take it. We are great friends, and compatible in so many ways, and happy living together. But love for her is apparently quite different from the way it is for me. I didn't really understand that until this happenned.
  
• Basically, I said "no," and she said "too late." She feels she's given up a lot for our relationship, and she shouldn't have to give this up. For the record, the part that hurts is not that she's going to have sex with someone else, but that something I thought was there just isn't.
  
• What she wants is pretty much a polyamory situation... she feels she needs a type of person that I am not. It's actually not love for her. Just an itch she can't go without scratching. The rest of the time, she is fine with me. Yes... "fine." As in Bill-n-Hillary fine. Yes, I do wonder if that occaisional itch may become a more constant thing.
  
• No, that's not how I thought of our marriage.
  
• Yes, I need to think long and hard about whether I can live with any of this.
  
• In a way, I'm grateful things happened this way. We've been together a long time, and apparently this situation has existed for much of that time. Better to know how it is.

So, I'm afraid slevin was pretty much on the mark. This isn't about being "ready" for a different sexual relationship, it is about having a very different relationship from the start. And a terrible misunderstanding along the way.

Anyway, I feel like I would bring a whole LOT of baggage if I participated in any swinging-type stuff right now. Maybe when things have settled down a little, and I can get my head screwed on straight. But I kind of need to know where I'm going, first. Not like the search is going very fast anyway.

Thanks again everybody, for all your help!

Jon

[bbarnsworth]

There isn't thing one about this that doesn't send up a MAJOR, MAAAAJOR red flag.

If she goes to Tuscon this weekend, you're in for a world of trouble.

I said it in the Loki thread (linked earlier in this thread), and I'll say it now. You've got a little boy in the mix, and the only consideration being given to him is whether or not he is being lied to. HIS life is in the balance here. If your marriage goes bonkers over this and you end up in a nasty divorce, he will be PERMANENTLY affected by this. You chose to bring him into this world. Be an adult. Take the responsibility to take HIS needs, HIS future, HIS life into account, not just yours and your wife's. She also needs to have the same level of consideration for her son. This is an absolute must.

Good grief, you're risking your marriage over this to reach some sort of nirvana in your marriage? You don't swing to fix a broken marriage; that's written in stone. If you have problems in your marriage (and you DO, ADMIT IT) swinging is equivalent to turning a stick of dynamite into a nuclear bomb and lighting the fuse. Attempting to have an open marriage (as opposed to swinging) in this scenario is lighting off the entire nuclear arsenal of the United States. THIS WILL END IN DISASTER. COUNT ON IT.

I hope like hell this isn't Loki all over again. Take the advice being given to you. STOP this adventure RIGHT now, in it's tracks and don't even THINK about having an open marriage or swinging until many months or more than a year at least of having a marriage you think is absolutely rock solid.

If you do anything else but put a halt to this NOW, you're being ridiculously and dangerously stupid. Sorry to be so blunt, but there it is. Sometimes it takes a chainsaw to cut through the fog.

[JustAskJulie]

Pants - initially I was like everyone else and saw the same things in your story that we saw with Loki. After reading your last reply, I don't see that. Instead, you remind me of another story we've had here in the last year. He was pretty much in the same shoes you are (almost to the tee)... dead marriage... living like roommates... had decided to have an "open marriage"... she found it easier to get some than he did...

In the end, he finally realized there was more to life than just being someone's roommate and friend. You can be someone's friend without being married to them.

Here are this threads:
http://www.swingersboard.com/forums/...m-alabama.html
Open Marriage vs Swinging?
and I'm going to see if I can convince him to come back by here and perhaps share his thoughts (from after the fact) with you/us.