Open Marriage vs Swinging?

[wasted2008]

I disagree with the take on a open marriage. An open marriage can be done with the same rules as swinging. I made sure my husband always knew when I was going out who and where I thought I was going and gave him a way to always contact me. I also would send him a text while I was out letting him know when I would be home. In return I expected to know who and when he was going out. We did have an don't ask don't tell policy in place when it came to sex. But still had he ever asked I would answer.

[Bama0468]

IMHO what you discribed is more swinging than an open marriage. as I stated in my post I feel that opne marriage is when you don't know when where or how and may never know, and as I stated those in open marriages may or may not tell.

Lets face it my opinion of open marriage is going to differ from someone elses and I feel the defining would be impossible ... kinda like definining "Nice couple" in the other post ... or even what one looks for in a playmate ...

Now if we take where folks ( and I know we have some here ) that are in open marriages and swing ask them where they feel the line crosses, find out from folks who ONLY practice open marriage where they feel the line is that they would be concidered swinger, and where the swingers feel at what point they feel it would be crossing into open marriage.

If we do that we may find a commonality to which we all MIGHT agree with a minimum of grey area.

however the open marriage folks I knew (never played with them) were of the mind set that they could do who ever when ever, no need to tell or inform at all.

The way those folks I met and knew played was a hair line from cheating as its cheating if you have no permission, but the open marriage folks had a never ending permission.

[JustAskJulie]

I think trying to define open marriage is going to be like trying to define swinging. Everyone's opinion is going to be different. Can someone who doesn't consider themselves in an open marriage even really attempt to define what one is?

[Bama0468]

I think to a degree yes they can define, how one might ask, By knowing at what point they feel they would be crossing into that area. which is why an understanding from all three sides as to what hey think that line in the sand is may lead to a more definite answer.

For us who have dabbled on the fringe at times ( by our definition) it would be

approval and knowing (whether seperate or together) -Swinging
Approval and not knowing (or finding out after the fact) - Open marriage
no approval and not knowing -cheating

but here in again, it is only my opinion.

[jnbsmokin]

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

I think trying to define open marriage is going to be like trying to define swinging. Everyone's opinion is going to be different. Can someone who doesn't consider themselves in an open marriage even really attempt to define what one is?

I agree with Julie here. Even those in an open marriage will most likely see it differently than another couple.

[geminigrey]

Originally Posted by Bama0468

Swinging- Both partners know that the other is doing it and when

Open Marriage - one of the partners does not know the other is doing but they have permission to do whom ever they please, when ever they please AND they may or may not tell the partner when they have done some thing.

Personaly on our end its a matter of safety, I want to know where and who and have met them, same for me in the reverse, that way if anything ( godforbid) bad happened I/we have a starting point

I don't know that that is the best description. Most of the people I know personally who consider themselves in an "open marriage" know what each of them are doing and with whom. Like you said, it's a safety issue, and for a lot of them, individual 'approval' has to be had before you can go off and play.

I really don't know there is technically a difference between an open marriage and swinging. I'd say it is that each of the spouse play seperately, but I've seen people talking about swinging solo as well as with their spouse, so I'm not sure.

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by Bama0468

Swinging- Both partners know that the other is doing it and when

Open Marriage - one of the partners does not know the other is doing but they have permission to do whom ever they please, when ever they please AND they may or may not tell the partner when they have done some thing.

I can see some open marriages operating like this. I consider myself in an open marriage, and we engage in swinging on occasion. However, when I go about my open marriage activities, I don't do whomever, whenever and I don't NOT tell my spouse. I may not ask permission per se, but my spouse's opinion and comfort are very important to me and as such, I keep him in the loop at all times.

Originally Posted by Wasted2008

I disagree with the take on a open marriage. An open marriage can be done with the same rules as swinging. I made sure my husband always knew when I was going out who and where I thought I was going and gave him a way to always contact me. I also would send him a text while I was out letting him know when I would be home.

I do what you do/did. And I too disagree the one take on an open marriage.

Originally Posted by JustAskJulie

I think trying to define open marriage is going to be like trying to define swinging. Everyone's opinion is going to be different. Can someone who doesn't consider themselves in an open marriage even really attempt to define what one is?

I agree that trying to define open marriage is going to be no different than any of the threads regarding a definition of swinging.

While I find opinion interesting as to how others perceive an open marriage, if they aren't in one or have not participated in one, I'm hard pressed to do anything but put out a counterpoint based on my actual participation in an open marriage.

Just like in swinging, there are variations; some are some that might operate from Bama's definition, but there are just as many that would be put off by his definition. I am one of those. Just like in swinging, open marriage participants have established their own boundaries with each other, and with those whom they see and those arrangements can take any number of shapes.

Defining an open marriage makes as much sense as creating a hard and fast definition of swinging. It makes for interesting debate and long threads, but it really doesn't go anywhere; we all define ourselves as we see fit.

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by geminigrey

I really don't know there is technically a difference between an open marriage and swinging.

I've seen enough web pages and a couple of books that would consider open marriage one big category, and swinging, polyamory, consensual non-monogamy, fuck buddies, etc. as subcategories or styles of an open marriage.

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I think we all know that swinging is not for everyone and every personality type.

The same of course applies to an open marriage, only more so, there are going to be even less people who will 'succeed' in an open marriage than a swinger one.

Are there numbers or case studies or something in what you've read/studied that show a difference in marriage success rates between "swingers" and "open marriage participants"?

An open marriage is often the last resort to fix a broken one,

I've seen swinging used more often by those in a troubled marriage as a last resort than open marriage. That's just my observation from participating in the open marriage/consensual non-monogamy communities, as well as participating in swinging. There seem to be far more swingers than open marriage participants, so I'm curious as to the numbers or where the perception arises as to the reasons or failures of an open marriage.

[Bama0468]

[

Originally Posted by rpu3

Defining an open marriage makes as much sense as creating a hard and fast definition of swinging. It makes for interesting debate and long threads, but it really doesn't go anywhere; we all define ourselves as we see fit.

I would say that I can live with this and as stated would feel that is accurate as well ... Kudos

[shymxcpl]

This weekend I decided to see what MOST people see as Swinger and Open Marriage. I think a good way to find what the majority of people think is Wikipedia (I'm not saying that their definition is right, I'm just saying it's what is most widely accepted)

I always thought that Swingers were a subset of Open Marriages, but according to the good people who write the wikiarticles around the world, it's the opposite that is true. Open Marriage is, according to general belief, one of the many ways you can swing. Others include Dogging, Hotwifing, Threesomes, Group Sex, cuckolding etc.

I think what wasted2008 described actually fits into the wiki-category of hotwife (depending on the vicarious pleasure felt by the non participating partner), again, not that I agree, it's just how they describe it.

I guess one could argue that Open Marriage could be when the other person doesn't feel outright pleasure from his or her partner getting a little on the side and swinging is when he/she does... Maybe??

My conclusion is that most of the time people argue is because some people want to call it one thing and the other person understands this as another thing. Just sticking to an established nomenclature would solve many misunderstandings. So lookup swinging and open marriage in wikipedia and see if you agree.

can you place links here? I wont just in case

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by shymxcpl

I always thought that Swingers were a subset of Open Marriages, but according to the good people who write the wikiarticles around the world, it's the opposite that is true.

...

can you place links here? I wont just in case

I believe you can link.

What Wiki are you reading? Wikipedia has exactly the opposite for its open marriage entry - open marriage as the big group, swinging, etc. as subsets.

I won't necessarily agree to what Wiki says about any number of subjects, given that any Tom, Dick or Harriet can write whatever they like. One is lucky to get an actual supporting cite, it's hard to view it as anything but a potentially interesting read.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by shymxcpl

can you place links here? I wont just in case

Yes, you can link to what you are referring to.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by rpu3

Are there numbers or case studies or something in what you've read/studied that show a difference in marriage success rates between "swingers" and "open marriage participants"?

No of course not, at least not with a realistic chart that can be trusted, few people would be honest about it. That doesn't mean I can't see how things seem to work, and being a swinger I get to see more of this than the average Joe.

Every couple we know since we started swinging are still together. Every one. Now I know of swinging couples that have separated or divorced via message boards and the like, but of the people we have met, they are all still couples, married, and a few have added kids since then.

Every open marriage couple I've known has divorced. Every one. Some were people we met while swinging, and two others were non-swingers I knew personally well enough to find this kind of information out of.

This if of course not scientific, but when I couple it with my knowledge of human mating systems as part of my study of evolutionary biology, I feel very confident in these conclusions. Were I some young PhD student I'd be making a post here to test this hypothesis, and then not ever coming back with the data

I've seen swinging used more often by those in a troubled marriage as a last resort than open marriage. That's just my observation from participating in the open marriage/consensual non-monogamy communities, as well as participating in swinging. There seem to be far more swingers than open marriage participants, so I'm curious as to the numbers or where the perception arises as to the reasons or failures of an open marriage.

I think as a swinger I've read/seen this more as well. In the non-swinger world though I think the "open marriage" is more common as things are so broken they want to do their own thing. Normally someone already found someone they are attracted too, or they just want to feel better about cheating. This is what I think is going on in the OP, at least potentially.

[Bama0468]

I think as a swinger I've read/seen this more as well. In the non-swinger world though I think the "open marriage" is more common as things are so broken they want to do their own thing. Normally someone already found someone they are attracted too, or they just want to feel better about cheating. This is what I think is going on in the OP, at least potentially.

I had a neighbor that wanted to get into swinging, they asked us as they (once upon a time) were close friends and knew about us. Now had they heeded our advice and came here to read up and ask questions, or even sat down and asked us questions, rather than just saying they think they want to try it, perhaps it may have worked or they would have never tried. What they did do is found a lady whos hubby was out of country (not by choice) and they began to schmooz her. the wife of the couple started feeling STRONG jealous feeling right off, the hubby descided he wanted to do what he wanted to do and now 2 marriages are broke up and none of the 4 are with anyone they were involved with.

I say that to say this I think the ones failing are the ones going into it half cocked ( no pun intended) and the ones that are already on the rocks and shakey