Open Marriage vs Swinging?

[rpu3]

Originally Posted by ViSexual

I don't know. The 'open marriage' thing has always sounded, to me, like short trial separations.

OK, those of you have done it successfully, please excuse me.

Originally Posted by Chicup

Finding stats on this stuff isn't easy but from what I've gathered open marriages have very low success rates, too much appart and the marriage seems to become less of a loving intimate marriage and more of a friends/business associate type of thing.

I can't say I have personal experience with this, but the only two open marriages I knew of both quickly failed.

Given I'm one of the few on this board who actually admits her status as being in an open marriage, I think I'll take this opportunity to jump in with my two cents as a form of counterpoint based on my experience.

To start, our marriage is not a trial separation or business association nor have we lost any intimacy to our marriage. Actually, I thought we were even closer, if that was possible, due to our commitment to honesty and full communication with each other and everyone else involved, just like the straight-up swingers. I don't see this changing, even if someone spit out the study or numbers showing that my marriage is more likely to fail than a vanilla marriage or a swinger marriage. It can and does work for some...

There's certainly failure of marriages associated with swinging or poly as there are with open marriages. A screwed up relationship isn't going to survive swinging, cheating, poly or an open relationship arrangement. Someone who moves into an open marriage or swinging because they are bored, or want sanctioned cheating or unfulfilled already has issues prior to doing this. It's certainly no different than married couples that enter swinging to try to fix their marriages or who decide they are poly in order to sanction their cheating somehow.

The reasons why people go into open marriages, polyamory or swinging to me is more indicative to the potential to successfully maintain the current marriage or relationship. Expectations for/upon entering into a non-monogamous also seem to play a huge part. The state of the marriage or relationship before entering into an alternative arrangement is yet another huge factor.

And this is what seems to have been revealed by the OP, that there may be factors out there that may indeed indicate problems already that may indeed end in a broken marriage. But it isn't going to be necessarily because of an open marriage. We could substitute any number of alternative relationships in place of the term "open marriage" and the potential for failure will remain the same because of the potential underlying issues that exist before even entering the alternative sexual relationship arena.

Originally Posted by ViSexual

To me 'swinging' is when couples are enjoying this adventure together. Well, separate rooms accepted.

I know this is your opinion, and my response is not intended to be an attack. I read this, and my first thought is who is to say that people in an open marriage are not enjoying this adventure together? When did proximity become the qualifier as to enjoyment?

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox. It was kind of lonely up there anyway since I'm in the minority position here.

[geminigrey]

Originally Posted by Chicup

Ok its worse than I thought. I'm very familiar with this sort of thing, in fact the last open marriage I knew that failed was a woman I knew from an online game. She wasn't happy at home, her husband agreed to the open marriage (he wasn't happy with her either), shes now divorced and living with her online buddy.

Yeah, in this case it's a little less likely to happen, since dude lives in England, but still. I've tried to get on SL, but like you said, it's just boring to me. Early on I brought up the option of divorce to the wife, and she's insistent that that's not what she wants. *shrugs* So we continue to try to work on things, and life goes on.

And like rpu3 said, I wouldn't judge all open marriages by my situation. I realize there's some huge flashing neon warning signs all over my relationship, but that doesn't mean it's because of the open marriage. In my case, the open marriage is more of a symptom of the problem, than the cause. And now I sound all sad and pathetic, like a kicked puppy. Awwww.

[VegasLee]

In 30 years of being involved in alternative lifestyles I have never seen a relationship become "fixed" or last by delving into something outside of the broken relationship.

Many will use it as a reason to try easing the pain of being alone as the relationship breaks up at some point.

Anything that distracts from the relationship will not help it in the long term. It may prolong the break up but it does not fix the problem.

[Pepper & Drew]

I don't necessarily think those in open marriages are more likely to fail. It's the same argument that non-swingers make about swinger marriages. But, in light of the online gaming, the issues you all are dealing with, I think ANY outside contact, including swinging, open marriage, or cheating is only going to further seperate the two of you.

If a couple agrees to open marriage while their marriage is a healthy one, I think it can work. If your marriage is in a fragile place and you decide to have an open marriage (or swing, for that matter) you are either prolonging the inevitable, or speeding it up.

Pepper

[robnsusan60]

rpu3 ... I'll hold your coat while you're on the soapbox, you are not alone. What is swinging and what is not is a never ending debate on here but in my mind it's rather simple, swinging is consentual sexual play with others. And to head off an 'others definition' tangent, I'll just say ...you all know what I mean.

We did mostly couples, some mfm, and she had an ongoing relationship with a b/f for years. He was a platonic friend of hers long before we ever met and her first encounter with him was after we'd been married almost 10 years. It was something she had 'on the side' with no involvement on my part in their activities, and yet it was something her and I shared and delighted in. I didn't pursue like activities, that just wasn't in our realm of interest. Can that be called an open marriage by definition or by opinion? Kinda some degree?

I believe the important thing is that it's something we were both comfortable with and, equally importantly, it wasn't to fix anything. And, by the way, explaining a venture into the lifestyle because of 'boredom' or to 'spice things up' are interchangeable motives by and large, just a matter of degree and depending on how one expresses it. I mention that to differentiate between those motives and trying to fix something that's broke.

Rob

[geminigrey]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

If a couple agrees to open marriage while their marriage is a healthy one, I think it can work. If your marriage is in a fragile place and you decide to have an open marriage (or swing, for that matter) you are either prolonging the inevitable, or speeding it up.

Pepper

I think you're right, actually, not just in my case, but in general. You have to start with a healthy relationship between you and your spouse before you can add any other elements to it, whether it's playing together or seperate.

I'm glad I came on here and started talking to you guys, because it's gotten my brain juices flowing. I want to work on what we already have before or if we chose to expand on it. Looking elsewhere for attention isn't going to make things any better on the home front, but it can hurt.

I'm still not saying that open marriage/polyamory/swinging is a bad thing, but if the foundation is crumbling, the house can't stand, whether it's a Ranch or a Tudor.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally Posted by ViSexual

And, Julie, is the fact you and your first husband are ex-s partly due to just this?

Actually, no. As I've posted in other threads, I think swinging (including the open marriage side) is probably what kept us together as long as we were. What split us apart was just wanting different things and realizing we were different people. When we got married I was 20 and I thought I knew what I wanted/needed in a relationship and that he could give it to me. By the time I was 26, I realized it was something completely different (something that included having a lot more in common than sex - there was a lot more to it than that).

Originally Posted by geminigrey

I won't lie, there is some discord on the home front because the wife is quite solidly addicted to Second Life (online community,

I always pictured you guys as more WOW types. My last ex was a WOW addict to the point that it caused a serious divide in our relationship. I don't like the idea of being second to a GAME! and it was something I wasn't willing to put up with. I put that in the category of extreme selfishness. I don't know what extent it is for you, but for us it was if he was awake and not at work he was on WOW. He'd spend some time with me in the evening on the nights we had together then as soon as I was asleep (if he waited that long) he was online until he fell asleep in the computer chair. Then he'd sleep all the next day and not want to do anything. By the end, he just didn't bother coming over because it was easier to stay home and play WOW than "fight" about it. It took me a month to break up with him just because I wanted to do it in person without his kid around. I finally did it over the phone.

I hope it's not to that point for you guys. If I remember right you've been together a while... at least 5 years? (it was about that long ago the last time I ran into you guys).

Originally Posted by VegasLee

In 30 years of being involved in alternative lifestyles I have never seen a relationship become "fixed" or last by delving into something outside of the broken relationship.

Many will use it as a reason to try easing the pain of being alone as the relationship breaks up at some point.

Anything that distracts from the relationship will not help it in the long term. It may prolong the break up but it does not fix the problem.

That about sums it up.

[Chicup]

I base my opinions on open marriage on my own investigation of swinging and later readings I've done on human sexuality as it relates to genetics and evolution.

I think we all know that swinging is not for everyone and every personality type.

The same of course applies to an open marriage, only more so, there are going to be even less people who will 'succeed' in an open marriage than a swinger one.

An open marriage is often the last resort to fix a broken one, and obviously won't be very successful for most people in that. This was my initial feeling with the OP and apparently it turns out to be the case.

geminigrey I wish you luck you are dealing with someone with an addiction more than anything else, those games have destroyed countless relationships even without a sexual aspect to them. I normally don't say look for professional help in that, and I don't know if psychology has caught up to dealing with this kind of addiction yet, but you may find resources out there to help out as this is such a common problem.

[wasted2008]

We are new to the scene as well. More broke in now then what we were thou. We took our marriage open and had the same issues. I could easily have play dates and hubby could not. The swingers lifestyle has allowed us to both play together and play apart. The couples aspect can be fun if theres a mutual attraction. Some couples will allow one on one play with the others from diffrent couples. This is how its working for us. We recently attended a party and each played alone the whole partty. It worked for us. I classify myself as more of a swinger then having an open marriage as its just concensual sex among our group of friends. Yes I still have one that I see on the side, but for the most part we play are playing with couples.

[NumbskullsX2]

I read once that the reason there is no data on long-term open marriages is because there aren't many that last for a long-term. Where do you draw the line between an "open marriage" and a "trial divorce?"

[Bama0468]

my guess would be at seperation (legal)

[jnbsmokin]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

I don't necessarily think those in open marriages are more likely to fail. It's the same argument that non-swingers make about swinger marriages. But, in light of the online gaming, the issues you all are dealing with, I think ANY outside contact, including swinging, open marriage, or cheating is only going to further seperate the two of you.

If a couple agrees to open marriage while their marriage is a healthy one, I think it can work. If your marriage is in a fragile place and you decide to have an open marriage (or swing, for that matter) you are either prolonging the inevitable, or speeding it up.

Pepper

I completely agree!!!!! Kudos for putting it so well!



Does anybody else have a hard time paying attention to the posts instead of her arse??? Sorry Pepper, I mean no offense, and I'm sure you already know you have a great body....

[wasted2008]

Whats the diffrence between and open marriage and swinging yet playing apart. An open marriage only works if rules are in place. Everyone has there own set of rules. I enjoy swinging with my husband just as much as I enjoy my man on the side. The only diffrence is the couples aspect. I dont mind a married man whose wife that knows about me. But I find it somewhat wierd to talk sex with a wife of whom I have slept with her husband. I prefer the one on one aspect in both the swingers aspect as well as in an open marriage. But I honestly dont see much diffrence between an open marriage an d swinging.

[Bama0468]

Swinging- Both partners know that the other is doing it and when

Open Marriage - one of the partners does not know the other is doing but they have permission to do whom ever they please, when ever they please AND they may or may not tell the partner when they have done some thing.

Personaly on our end its a matter of safety, I want to know where and who and have met them, same for me in the reverse, that way if anything ( godforbid) bad happened I/we have a starting point

[wasted2008]

There is always the option of finding a committed couple both of you are attracted to. I would like to think such of one exists. Swinging isnt just about having sex. We have made some awesome friends swinging, I have yet to find a committed couple but I keep hearing such a thing exists.