Are my fantasies cuckold related?

[longtimeguy]

This is my very first post after doing some good reading here.

My wife and I are new swingers and have one couple that we have been with a few times together and a few times in different rooms alone. My wife was with him for a month mostly by herself, although we have a few threesomes, before I was able to meet his wife(she was in europe)

I have six questions concerning FANTASY and HOPES. Hope they don't sound too silly.


#1 I like to WATCH my wife being pleased by our male friend, and I really like it when she gets vocal. This is a common turn on amongst swingers I think, or am I in the minority?

Even the simple thought of my having a good time with another man is a turn on to me.

#2 It also turns me on when my wife TELLS me about what she did and what he did when they were alone. I get horny really quick just by what she SAYS. As I mentioned, before I swung with his wife my wife swung with him, by herself most of the time, for about a month while his wife was in europe. I wanted to hear about what they did....it was a big turn on for me, especially since he was such a good lover and my wife was having such big thrills !!!



#3 I know penis size is not that important to most women but rather how he uses it and the rest of his body. Seems like we men are much more fixated on penis size. Anyway, although I am not gay in the slightest I find a large penis in a pussy highly erotic and sexy. When we watch porn I much prefer to see big cocks doing their thing than small or average ones
I was really worried that our new male friend would be "small". I wanted him to be at least my size and bigger would be better.(his is about my size)
So #3>>>Is this a common hope with male swingers?


So this leads up question #4. I have had the fantasy of my wife being satisfied with a man with a big cock and bigger than mine. Does this make me an "odd" swinger that has a fantasy that is uncommon?




#5 Prior to this time I had never been with another woman and my wife had never been with another man. We really had no way to know if we were good lovers or not. So I secretly hoped, and then told my wife, that I wished our male friend would be a great lover and preferably a better lover than me so that my wife would REALLY REALLY like it, so she could experience thrills BEYOND what I have been able to give her. I get really turned on when my wife is excited and the more thrilled she gets the more thrilled I get so her being REALLY thrilled really thrills me. I think that my wife will like sex even more because of this and that will be good for our sex life.

I also hoped he would be a great lover and even better than me so she could learn to be a better lover, and so I could even learn from him, and my wife after her experience, on how to be better myself. Also tied into this was the fact that I wanted him to have a bigger cock than me because I thought my wife would like it and I wanted to watch it in my wife.

I also hoped to learn things from his wife so I could apply them to my wife as an improved lover.

I had no feelings or thoughts of jelousy at all as I contemplated all this. My wife was and is fully aware of my views here. My wife told me that she too hoped he would be a great lover and I quote "more experienced than me" so she could learn to be a better lover for her own betterment and also so she could teach me too. By the way she is becoming better and so am I!
So girls, and especially you guys, is the above hope, which I think may also be a fantasy, common or am I odd or weird here?

So now for the last question.

SO I told our male friend this and he said that because I was hoping his cock was bigger, and that he would be a better lover, that I wanted to learn from a more experienced man, that I wanted her to experience thrills BIGGER than I had been able to give her, that it almost sounded like a cuckoldry fantasy. So I looked that up on the board. Personally I don't think it is a cuckodry thing because I have no secret desire to become "the boy", to be dominated by another male or to view my wife as a mother figure. I have NO desire to be humiliated or to become subservient to our male friend or my wife!
#6. Do you think I have cuckodry fantasies and don't know it? God, if I am subconsciously a cuckod male then I don't want to swing any more.

As it turned out our male partner is a really nice guy a really good lover and my wife said that he is a better lover than me but that I am getting better(don't worry, we can talk about anything without hurting each other
Our female friend told me that she experiences new and great thrills by being with me that she just loves my face and body and that I am not that far behind her husband as a good lover..and I am improving every time we get together

He and she are especially good kissers and that is something that my wife and I never did much of really. So as I said I am learning and getting better and so is my wife We are finially learning how to be good kissers too and that is a blast

Thank you all for your comments.

[modrunner]

I will give you my opinion and see if that helps.

#1 I would love to experience what you described

#2 I personally only want to swing with my wife together, even if I only watch.

#3 I would love to see my wife with a larger penis (eventhough I'm bigger than average)

#4 I would love that too

#5 There is nothing weird in my opinion about wanting to be a better lover. Your male friend may have different techniques that your wife enjoys and then you can implement them with her as well; like they say, it never hurts to get a second opinion. I'm always reading and doing research on things that I think my wife would enjoy; where you have someone to help with the research

#6 As for a cuckold, I'm not 100% on the definition, but from what I gathered it's someone that wants their wife courted then told about it. Swinging seperately and telling the stories doesn't seem to fall into the same category.

These are just my thoughts; and anyone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or a weirdo too

[TeamSoBe]

All of that sounds common enough to me. Don't sweat the 'cuckold' thing. I get warmed up by plenty of the stuff you're talking about, but me being humiliated or degraded or something isn't part of it at all for me either.

[edmustang]

A "cuckold" is nothing more than a husband whose wife is unfaithful. It has nothing to do with dominance or humiliation (other than what the husband himself feels). Doesn't sound to me like that's what is going on here, since she certainly has your permission.

Sounds to me like you two are swinging for the right reasons: it's a turn-on for both of you and you learn something new. You are also extremely communicative and straightforward with each other. I predict a long and happy swing-life for you two. (Though I don't pretend to be any kind of swing guru )

I envy what the two of you appear to have, and I would love to be a part of it. (Too bad I'm too far away.)

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by edmustang

A "cuckold" is nothing more than a husband whose wife is unfaithful. It has nothing to do with dominance or humiliation (other than what the husband himself feels). Doesn't sound to me like that's what is going on here, since she certainly has your permission.

Sounds to me like you two are swinging for the right reasons: it's a turn-on for both of you and you learn something new. You are also extremely communicative and straightforward with each other. I predict a long and happy swing-life for you two. (Though I don't pretend to be any kind of swing guru )

I envy what the two of you appear to have, and I would love to be a part of it. (Too bad I'm too far away.)

I already told this in another thread. The dictionary definition for cuckold doesn't fit this discussion. The OP meant the Cuockoldry lifestyle, where there are some degree of humilliation and/or domination.

I am pretty suremost dictionaries doesn't address the word "swinger" as we do inside the lifestyle. It's pointless to make statements based on these definitions.

[sereneiders]

longtimeguy,

For the first 5 questions I don't know how common they are. For sure there's a lot of swingers that shares one or another of them, or even them all.

As for the 6 question, I'f say that the fantasies you described are shared for almost all the cuckolds (some may disregard the size issue but replace it with performance and skills as lovers), so so far, you fit the profile.

It calls my attention that you empatized the bigger size, the experience, and the fitness as a lover as the features the other guy should have when compared with you in order to make the idea thrilling (and that you explicitely wanted to emphatize you're not gay). It seems to me this is likely to lead to you "envying" the other guy and to humilliating feelings, but this is something unknown so far.

Fitting the profile so far doesn't mean you're actually a cuckold, precisely because of the lack of an humilliation correlated with these fantasies. Of course, you may find out later on that there is some humilliation involved and that this is trilling for you.

Anyway, I don't understand why, if you feel this thrilling, would you stop swinging (or the cucoldry) just because of being labeled "cuckold".

[KenRachel]

On numbers 1 & 4:

Yes, I found that I enjoyed watching Rachel take another man. I was a little apprehensive at first, but it worked out.

I like the fact that the guy we've done stuff with is thicker. I'm longer, but Rachel says thicker gives a different sensation.

Ken

[longtimeguy]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

longtimeguy,

For the first 5 questions I don't know how common they are. For sure there's a lot of swingers that shares one or another of them, or even them all.

As for the 6 question, I'f say that the fantasies you described are shared for almost all the cuckolds (some may disregard the size issue but replace it with performance and skills as lovers), so so far, you fit the profile.

It calls my attention that you empatized the bigger size, the experience, and the fitness as a lover as the features the other guy should have when compared with you in order to make the idea thrilling (and that you explicitely wanted to emphatize you're not gay). It seems to me this is likely to lead to you "envying" the other guy and to humilliating feelings, but this is something unknown so far.

Fitting the profile so far doesn't mean you're actually a cuckold, precisely because of the lack of an humilliation correlated with these fantasies. Of course, you may find out later on that there is some humilliation involved and that this is trilling for you.

Anyway, I don't understand why, if you feel this thrilling, would you stop swinging (or the cucoldry) just because of being labeled "cuckold".

The more thrilled she gets the more thrilled I get....so I think this is a big reason why I wanted him to be a great lover and yes even better then me. That thought doesn't bother me or make me jelous and in fact is a bit of a turn on.
Even the simple thought of her going nuts with another guy is a big turn on to me.

Sure I wanted him big or at least as big as me, and a great lover...for my wifes fun and my visual fun. What can I say...I like seeing a big dick pounding away In fact I was paranoid that he was going to be small( I am fairly big) and a crappy lover. I am glad he is about my size(pretty big)

Sure I am open to the thought that I may have things to learn, and from him , as I have only ever been with my wife and now his wife perhaps 10 times. Now I know that I did have things to learn and I am getting better all the time... and expect to match him soon



I just want to have fun. I want my wife and I to become better lovers. I want my wife to experience new and big thrills with another man, and yes, even bigger thrills than I have been able to give her, as I know she would really love that and knowing that she does turns me on.... and as I mentioned she would probably then like sex even more than she already does and that would be good for our sex life.

So far all that I thought would happen is actually happening. She is getting super thrilled, and I admit he is a better lover than me,(although not for long he he he and I have better looks as an assest ) . I am sharing in that thrill my wife feels and it is a big turn to me. I am getting thrilled with his wife. My wife is getting off watching me with our female partner. My wife is starting to like sex even more, because this guys is very good and a new experience, and it's rubbing off in our sex life. I am learning and my wife is even learning more than me and this too is rubbing off in our sex life. We have even become good kissers because of our partners.




In regard to cuckolding...
Gee, being thrilled by being humiliated! I can't see that of myself.
I am not sure what you mean. Tell me what this "humiliation" would involve.

I don't think that I have any hidden desire to be dominated by him or my wife....or to be a servant type, or to feel inferior to him as a lover, or that my wife would prefer him and that I would come second...... if that's what this means.

[sereneiders]

Well, I enjoy watching my wife having fun with another guy, and I hope her to be able to have the best times, whether with another guy or with myself.

However, I am confident that the physical aspect is just one of many aspects involved. I know for sure that no one knows my wife the way I do, and no one knows me the way my wife does. This, added to the love we feel towards each other makes our lovemaking a lot different than what anyone of us may have with other partners. Considering the whole thing, even if a guy were bigger and better lover than myself and able to provide her an excellent time, this guy would be hardly able to match me.

From your words, you're the one valuating certain attributes from a guy that would make him better than youurself, disregarding all the remaining aspects. I don't know your wife oppinion about this, she may or may not agree with you about bigger being better, or the experience or the skill a guy may have would be enough to make it better for her. The only I know, from your own words, is that this idea thrills you (and not necesaily HER).

If you just consider the size factor, you'd see in other threads that this isn't necesarily true for all the women, and moreover, that men are way more concerned about this than women.

So I wonder what your wife have to say about all of this.

In any case, it seems to me you're focused on finding out "better guys" than yourself for your wife (on your oppinion), without even considering the chance that no guy could be better than yourself for your wife (which would lead you to an impossible quest... unless you were trying to convince your wife against her beliefs). This alone worth a second tought from your part.

Originally Posted by longtimeguy

In regard to cuckolding...
Gee, being thrilled by being humiliated! I can't see that of myself.
I am not sure what you mean. Tell me what this "humiliation" would involve.

I don't think that I have any hidden desire to be dominated by him or my wife....or to be a servant type, or to feel inferior to him as a lover, or that my wife would prefer him and that I would come second...... if that's what this means.

There are two things to consider here. One is what may arouse you, and the other is your self image that you try to protect.

It's often common that arousing toughts doesn't fit your self image. A pretty good example for this are the rape fantasies some women feel arousing. In these fantasies the woman "is being forced" to do things colliding her self image, things that the sole tought of being done at her will would distort her self image in a very unconfortable way (for example, rendering herself as a whore), thus the rape scenarion allows her to transfer her will and wishes to someone else (her rapist), thus allowing her to enjoy these fantasized acts while preserving her self image.

So what you're telling us here is that you cannot watch yourself in such an humilliating position, but this tells nothing about how trilling the idea is.

Some people claim cuckoldry masks this very same proccess. I cannot endorse this as a generalization for every cuckolded guy, nor that this fits your case. I am telling you this just because this fits, and it is up to you to give this a tought. Upon this claim, a cuckold may be a closet homosexual who cannot stand watching himself as such, nor the idea of being with another guy (or perhaps requiring his wife to "order" him to be with a guy, much the same way the women fantasizing a rape transfers the will to someone else). This guy transfers the features that he fantasize a lover would require to satisfy HIS desires (size, skills), but use his wife as an alterego, a proxy for his body. Her body is the compromised one, and by watching her while being pleased, or by heraing her comments about the experience he have a better approach to the "real thing" than his own fantasies (moreover when these fantasies collide with his self image). In this very particular scenario, a "better lover" have to have the features he don't have, that justifies why the lover is the one who "naturally" deserve the "penetrator" role isnthead of himself. For this cenario to work, the cuckold would need to "lose the contest" against the lover, taking sistematically the second place, and the humilliation comes from this "loser" place and helps reinforcing the explanation that allows the entire mechanism to keep running.

I cannot tell from your words alone if this could resemble your case: I have not enough information as to tell, and probabily it is something beyond my reach, and even beyond your own reach. For as long as you keep preserving your self image, you woudn't provide any clue able to challenge this image (to figure this out I would have to watch you "in action").

But I have to ask you something. Let's figure out you manage to find out that "better lover" for your wife, that your wife finally agree with you that he's better than you. One day she may tell you she prefers to fuck him insthead of you. Would be this scenario arousing for you? Because this scenario is one where you'd be humilliated.

As for the D/s relationship as part of cuckoldry, it isn't required, but I believe this have to do with the claim abour closet homosexuality. The dom wife "force" the guy behavior in all these ways colliding with his self image, these things he wouldn't do on his own, at least at the begining. These bahaviors may correlate with some stereotiped female place in our culture (being his wife maid), or may have to do with acts that otherwise would be taken as homosexual ("preparing" his wife lover by sucking him, "cleaning" him afterwards, eating creampies, or being "used" as a woman, i.e., penetrated himself). This may correlate at other level with the "mother" role assigned to his wife, i.e. requiring a mother to indulge or promote these behaviors, and perhaps taking the role of the kid in front of his wife and the lover in the mother and father roles... but this would be too Freudian for my taste , an oversimplification standing behind the explanation telling mothers leads her kids homosexuality by depriving the father form his law enforcement role (and again I believe this is an obsolete oversimplification that has to do to the time where this theory was formulated, since homosexuality was seen as an illness).

Wheter all of this fits your personality structure or not, is something that I cannot tell. I may point out things calling my attention and give you food for tought.

[longtimeguy]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

Well, I enjoy watching my wife having fun with another guy, and I hope her to be able to have the best times, whether with another guy or with myself.

However, I am confident that the physical aspect is just one of many aspects involved. I know for sure that no one knows my wife the way I do, and no one knows me the way my wife does. This, added to the love we feel towards each other makes our lovemaking a lot different than what anyone of us may have with other partners. Considering the whole thing, even if a guy were bigger and better lover than myself and able to provide her an excellent time, this guy would be hardly able to match me.

.

That's a good point and I think you are right.

[jojodom]

Swinging is not about fitting into the "norm". In this "sub-culture" there are many variations on what everyone likes to do or what everyone fantasies about. We are an accepting bunch and I do not worry what the is.

My wife and I have mfm's on a rather regular basis and I enjoy watching her with him.

So don't beat yourself up man or don't keep score. Just role with it and have fun. Just make sure you and your wife are on the same page.

[edmustang]

Originally Posted by sereneiders

I already told this in another thread. The dictionary definition for cuckold doesn't fit this discussion. The OP meant the Cuockoldry lifestyle, where there are some degree of humilliation and/or domination.

I am pretty suremost dictionaries doesn't address the word "swinger" as we do inside the lifestyle. It's pointless to make statements based on these definitions.

I hadn't thought of that. I was going with the "Shakespearean" definition. My bad. I'll check next time.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by jojodom

Swinging is not about fitting into the "norm". In this "sub-culture" there are many variations on what everyone likes to do or what everyone fantasies about. We are an accepting bunch and I do not worry what the is.

My wife and I have mfm's on a rather regular basis and I enjoy watching her with him.

So don't beat yourself up man or don't keep score. Just role with it and have fun. Just make sure you and your wife are on the same page.

I agree with you.

Whether you define yourself as "swinger" or "cuckold" doesn't matter for as long as you both are in the same page.

I don't have a problem with cuckoldry, it is just that from my experience, I've meet couples where they weren't in the same page about this. They engage in swinging for different reasons. The wife, unaware of her husband cuckold desire, is fairly playing as the people they meet, but the guy, attemting to fullfil his cuckoldry fantasies, trend to assign the "humilliator" role to the other parties who may end up feeling odd about this role.

It's different to just say "I want you to fuck my wife", than to say "I want you to prove us that you're a better lover than myself fucking my wife". It's odd to find yourself pushed to prove this, even more if your wife dislike to see you taking that role, and for the cuckold wuaware wife is odd to feel pushed into the humillator role as well.

But if everyone is in the same page from the scratch and up to play and enjoy these roles, there's nothing wrong about this.