Our teenager has found out about our lifestyle

[gatorvol64]

We aren't sure if we are asking advice or just venting but....

Our 15 year old son (3 months from 16) has figured us out. Our bedroom door wasn't locked one night and he walked in and saw us on the board. He always knocks....why not this time? And we have been going out more lately although the majority of it has just been the two of us.

So, to say he is having a problem with this is an understatement. We apparently aren't people he can respect now. We didn't deny it partly because it wouldn't have done any good. He wouldn't believe us. It could be so totally out there and he still wouldn't believe us. The 19 year old seems to care nothing about it. We have been going to dinner and things more because our children aren't home as much. The majority of the time, we don't even have plans to go anywhere but, when they are with friends, we aren't taking any time away from them to go out. Never thought it would be a problem for him. He threatens to tell everyone about this if we don't stay home all the time now.

I guess we should give you a little background info because I feel this attitude is a symptom of bigger things. His medical doctor and a friend's mom who has it herself feel he may be bi-polar. We want to get him tested but he is fighting it. He does not want to take any medication. Which in a way is ironic. He is on probation for stealing and taking triple C. He says that is why he doesn't want to take any.

Well, there is our concern. It helps to tell it to people who understand why we have done the things we have. Like many people he tells us it is wrong and we are not good examples. I think a major concern of his is that we will get a divorce. He said so and when I tried to discuss that in particular with him he didn't want to.

Thanks for listening.

Gator and Vol

[2BeDeviled]

We have two sons, both (18 and 20) just out of the house. The youngest, who is ADHD would probably have a similar reaction, though to be truthful, I'm not sure he'd go public with it. My oldest likely would respond with a hearty "AHA!" and just laugh. Our boys are everything to us, and we would be struggling with such a circumstance. How to explain that your activities are not leading to divorce will obviously depend on what you've taught him about relationships to this point. We have been quite adamant in the past about fidelity between couples, so that comment was not meant as criticism, implied or otherwise. We easily could have wound up in the same boat. In fact, I'm not sure I'd want either of the boys to know about our proposed activities at this time. Our flirtation with the lifestyle did not commence until our youngest left for FSU (sorry ... OK! OK! the oldest is in fact a GATOR) ...realistically, his departure from our home was in some way, a catalyst for this and a few other "newfound" interests.

We stand ready to listen and offer what limited wisdom we can.
Mr and Mrs BeDeviled

[Chicup]

I can't say I have an answer for you, I don't, but I can say that there is a world of difference between 15 and 19.

I remember seeing "Real People" I think when I was about 14. It was a piece with a nude male model for an art class with all the innuendo etc you would expect from a prime time fluff show.

Anyways it REALLY bothered me, I mean how could this guy just get naked like that? It was just wrong. It bugged me so much I went for a walk outside so I didn't have to see the rest of the piece and it was still bothering me.

Why I remember this I dont' know, but I do know I'd never have had the same reaction at 19.

At that age you can't even picture your parents having sex together, the thoughts of them doing some crazy group sex orgy thing would most likely blow most kids minds.

To take it from another angle, I play a lot of online games. These days its not like when I started and most people playing were over 18 as now everyone has a home internet connection. As soon as someone says a 'your mother is so' or 'I did it to your mom' or whatever joke, you KNOW they are between 14-16. They just seem to focus on their mothers at this age. Its one thing to have another kid tell you 'I did your mom' its another to know someone else could be any Saturday night.

I wouldn't focus so much on some possible bi-polar issue and just think of it as a kid issue.

[clutch]

This is a 2 cent version--I'd consider seeking some familial counseling--maybe with someone new.

I feel for you... everyone takes things differently. I know my parents swung with at least one other couple, and my mom had a lot of extra-marital sex... I never walked in on them, but I could have. They didn't particularly try to hide it.

My friend's parents swung downstairs after all the kids went upstairs to bed. I was spending the night, and we snuck down and watched them, and crept back up to bed without getting caught. (We didn't actually see them fucking, but they were kissing and fondling with the neighbor couple.

Another friend I had had parents who were outta-the-closet swingers; my friend and his two sisters were well aware of what was happening.

Our parents, at the time, were all WWII vets, had seen a lot, done a lot, and fucked a lot while overseas. They were made of a little bit harder stuff than our generation. While they tried to be discreet--for the kid's sakes, they really didn't give a flying frick to whether or not we knew their sex lives or whether or not we approved of it.

We were the kids; they provided for us; loved us the best they could, and, as my mom used to say, hoped we stayed out of jail til we were 21.

To be honest, I don't know that these parental swinging or non-marital events had that much drastic affect on any of us. I believe we all just kind of took it as normal because that's what we were used to. And our parents expected us to act normally and civilized.

As far as you guys not being someone he could respect??? That sounds a lot more like him being a 16 year old than anything else. Explain to him you could give him a million different things about yourself that he couldn't respect.

Have you ever told him why you swing? How it helps you enjoy each other more--maybe the variety of menu from day-to-day analogy. (Maybe, or maybe not, play the immature/inexperienced card--you don't have enough life experience. What if someday you woke up and realized we were right??)

All of this is to say, I do not like the fact that your son threatens you.

It sounds like he's deeply unhappy. Explain that he, himself, has done, and will do things that make you unhappy and/or mad, but you still love him regardless.

Also, point out that you, too, are human. You've done things in the past that made him mad or unhappy, and he might as well face it, he can expect that in the future. But that doesn't mean you love him any less. That sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, and move on instead of making an issue about it.

Explain that your marriage is fine and that he needs to accept that. End of the story.

Then, maybe ignore him a little--as in giving him a little space to work out what the reality is. As my mom would have said, "Let him put that in his pipe and smoke it."

If he continues to threaten you, just raise one eyebrow and say, "Some cultures would regard you to be a man, now, son. So you just go on and do what you gotta do." If he starts telling people, so be it. (Scandal lasts from 2 to 6 months; after that, though the fact remains the same, everyone just kind of gets bored gossiping over it and just moves on.) Bottom line, if your son did tell someone, you really could weather it. Not fun, but possible. (Not to minimize it, but if you watch the growth of Swing Lifestyle in your area, swinging really is coming out of the closet in an exponential way.)

Bottom line, let him know you love him and never let him see you flinch. And again, it sounds far more like 16 year old behavior than "caught-my-parent's-swinging" behavior.

Also, in case I totally missed the boat, and did nothing but lay on a crock on your painful situation, (which I am quite capable of doing) you might check out the familial counseling route).

Best of luck and peace

[Tybee Swing]

Hi Gator and Vol, I'm sorry for your dilemma. It's been a big concern of mine, too (we still have one at home).

I think that most 15-year-olds (soon to be 16) would take it pretty hard. Try to remember yourself at 15, and picturing your mother with a bunch of strange men. Know what I mean? It's just a bit of a shock to him. Did this just happen very recently?

Even though he's telling you he doesn't want to listen, keep talking. When he objects, use statements like this: "When your mother and I catch you at something, and you want to explain your side, we give you that chance. You need to give us the same consideration."

(With my teenager, I've always had to use this kind of statement to make her see the light and be fair about it. Empathy doesn't come naturally to most teenagers. But when I say something like this, she gets it, and we can talk. They do understand fair play - that's why they're always saying, "that's not fair!" )

When you finally have him listening, explain (like you did here) that most of the time you are going out, it's just the two of you. It's normal and natural that as kids get older and are doing their own thing, the parents have more time for each other and for reconnecting, like they did before kids.

His forbidding you to go out or else he'll tell on you: blackmail and threats. That needs to be nipped in the bud. Again, turn the tables on him. "Son, when you were in trouble for ____, or when you did _____ (something he wouldn't want his peers to know about), we didn't tell you to stay home or else we'd tell everybody you know. We would never threaten or blackmail you that way, and you owe us the same respect. This is a family matter for us to work out between us."

When you feel like he's listening to you and is communicating, give him a chance to express his feelings. He might be confused. Most kids even at his age, have their parents on a pedestal and have a certain image of them. It's natural for him to have some feelings. If he feels like he's being heard, it might diffuse a lot of this for him.

Some of his feelings might be based on what little he knows or has heard about swinging, which might be nothing like what you two really do. What I'd do on the swinging topic in your shoes, is not start explaining what swinging is to you (possible overload of info at this time). Instead, after he's calm and rational and you all are communicating (and acknowledging his feelings), ask him if he has any questions for you about swinging. Answer his questions in honest yet subtle ways. The honest answers are probably a lot more palatable for him than the image he might have in his mind of what swinging is.

He might not be ready for all of this at once, though. It might be a series of talks. It could be an opportunity to help him learn to accept people for who they are, to be a better communicator, how to have open, honest and rational conversations instead of using threats, and a lot of other valuable life lessons.

Originally Posted by gatorvol64

I think a major concern of his is that we will get a divorce. He said so and when I tried to discuss that in particular with him he didn't want to.

When he's ready to hear it, tell him how strong and loving your marriage is. Like most people, he probably thinks that swinging is about disrespect and not loving your partner enough to want to keep them all to yourself. Even adults have a hard time with this one. So, with patience and reassurance, tell him how much in love you both are, and how honest and open your marriage is. Not as if swinging is "the way the truth and the light", but just focusing on the fact that you are very happy with each other and in love, and nothing will change that. Like most people, he might think that swinging is akin to cheating. If you pick up on that vibe, you might need to have that talk, too.

It must be really tough for you guys. Please let us know how it goes!

[Spoomonkey]

We don't have kids at home (mine live with their mom quite a distance away and Mrs Spoo's is grown) so we haven't had to deal with this. When my boys come for the summer, everything in the house is sterilized and hidden...

But that is so easy to do for a few weeks at a time.

I am sorry you guys are facing it and have no idea what to advise or how I would handle it. I mean, I would talk to them if they found out - but how that would go, I couldn't even imagine. Would they calmly accept it? Be genuinely and acceptingly curious? Would they freak and blow out pilot lights? Who knows.

I can't even imagine how full time parents handle it.

But - maybe in the end this will lead you guys to help him face an issue (Bipolar) and bring you all closer. At least, I am crossing my fingers for that very thing!

Spoomonkey

[TNT]

My view on things may be totally off from others on this but I'll give it anyway.

Who is the parent and who is the child here?

Originally Posted by gatorvol64

Our 15 year old son (3 months from 16) has figured us out. Our bedroom door wasn't locked one night and he walked in and saw us on the board.

Our kids have caught us on different ADULT sites...we've always just clicked the screen down and when they have asked what we were looking at the answer has always been ...Adult stuff and none of your business.

There is no reason whatsoever that you and your wife are not entitled to go out whenever and where ever you want to...in fact, it's very, very important for parents to take that alone time. As long as you are not neglecting your children, enjoy your time out anyway you want.

He threatens to tell everyone about this if we don't stay home all the time now.

Ummm, yeah, right... :rollseyes He would probably be too embarrassed to actually carry out that threat. Kids say they're going to do a lot of things that they really have no intentions of ever doing. It's their way of getting you to feel less than adequate. If you honestly don't feel like you have or are doing anything wrong stand by your convictions and just look at him and say "go ahead". I bet it will make him stop in his tracks and think a bit.

I guess we should give you a little background info because I feel this attitude is a symptom of bigger things. His medical doctor and a friend's mom who has it herself feel he may be bi-polar. We want to get him tested but he is fighting it. He does not want to take any medication.

Again I ask...who is the child and who is the parent? It's your responsibility to make sure that he is healthy and taken care of ...he doesn't get a choice in this. You want him tested, you get him tested. He's not 18 yet and therefore is not of an age to make his own medical decisions.

I do not in anyway want to make light of what you are going through...been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Our oldest, who has always been our problem child, threw the fact that because her dad and I are swingers we therefore knew nothing of what marriage was about in my face one day...it hurts, but in her case that's exactly what she meant to do. She was hurting and having problems in her own marriage and didn't want to listen to the truths her mother was telling her...she knew exactly how to hurt me and used it. Unfortunately for her, even though it did hurt, I didn't let her see that it did. I stood by what I believed and calmly told her if she wanted to discuss her dad and I she was welcome to but she was going to have to act like the adult she was suppose to be first (she was 22 at the time). She later came back and apologized and her and I have been closer ever since.

Stand your ground. Love your children, protect them to the best of your ability, give them the guidance they need when needed but don't let them run all over you.

Teresa

[gatorvol64]

Gosh, thank you all so much. It is nice to see that the way we want to handle this is some of the things you all suggested.

First, I should have said that yes, this is recent. Thursday he told his friend's Mom in front of Gator. Not a problem for us in that. He felt safe enough in that environment to do so and this couple has had their own "wild times". He and Gator really push each others buttons (the way the oldest and I have done in the past). So, he did think he would get back at Gator by calling his dad. Well, that didn't go the way he wanted either. And also not a problem for us. I personally do not think he will tell anyone else (these are people he knew wouldn't take it any further) because he wouldn't want his friends to know that about us and deep down he loves his parents.

We'll get him to the doctor. That is our responsibility. We'll also deal with the demands for us to stay home. We are the adults and parents here. Though I'll tell you that my #1 priority right now is to reassure him that we are not headed for a divorce. After thinking about this some more I have realized that he had this fear even before this. I can't imagine why. But who understands the workings of a teenage mind. I thought we had always showed him how much we mean to each other. I've even told him that he is lucky to have parents that want to spend time with each other. How many of his friends have parents that are still married?

When things calm down, with all of us, I'll point out that we may have disappointed him but I doubt it will be the last time. We are human just the way he is. And I'll tell him that the bottom line is that it really isn't any of his business. That didn't go over well the first time I told him but, that is just how it is. I've told him that when he is 18 he can do what ever he wants and it really won't be any of my business either.

And yes, I know some of what he says is just to hurt us. Most of what he says is just to hurt us. I remember wanting to do that myself as a teenager. Yesterday was our worst day but today is somewhat better. I may be in the middle but see effort on all sides.

Seeing as how the oldest doesn't have a problem at all with anything (says it is our business) I've asked him to stay out of things completely. He said ok. So, during all this I see my oldest actually growing up and that is great ( I thought it wasn't ever going to happen).

So, my strategy if you can call it that and I hope works.
Let things cool off a day to two
Reassure that no matter what his parents will be staying together
Get him to a doctor
Address the issue of him trying to "ground" his parents

We really thank all of you for your advice and just plain caring.

Vol

[atlas]

I'm gonna chime in here with another "I have no experience with this" reply. I was a rough child that played chicken with my parents quite a bit. I think you're stuck in a bit of a position on this one. You either call his bluff or you live under his power. I don't think the later is an option. It's an unfortunate position to be in, but it happens, especially with children. The risks were acknowledged when you entered into a lifestyle that the majority of society does not approve.

You may be tempted to counter with a threat. However, don't make threats your not prepared to execute or you're back under his power. In addition, this can get you into an "eye for an eye" makes the world go blind if one of you doesn't let it go(he does something, you do something, he does something, etc.). More so, gaging a threat that'll really impact him without doing undo damage can be really difficult. It's a luxury he has that you do not.

In reality, I think you may simply be outed and get ready for damage control. Can you really trust he'll keep your secret anyway? Call his bluff and end it. Give him a "I'm a big person and can handle myself. Do what you have to do." However, I personally don't have anything to lose by being outed, other than some annoying explanations, so I'm really talking out of my ass.

I look forward to the day when my daughter starts playing chicken with me. It's messy and destructive, but teaches you something about the person and what they're made of. I grew a lot during that time. I think my relationship with my parents became much better when they stopped fighting me and didn't get too worked up about my decisions. Things got bad around 15, and they gave up around 17.

[gatorvol64]

Oh, yes, I forgot to tell you that he still wants to keep the double date he and his girlfriend have with his parents for Wednesday night. And he does have his own money to pay for her dinner. We've never done this before but, I'm sure we'll have a good time.

Vol

[prettylady]

It is good to have a plan. Stick to it, it sounds like a good one.
My parents had trouble with my brother (not swinging issues, just teenager stuff). We had the cops at our door for, oh I don't know, the hundredth time that week. This officer was older and like TNT said, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. He told my Dad, until he makes it clear to my brother who is who in this relationship, my brother is going to continue to be an SOB. So as much as it hurt my parents, the took the hard stance. Big brother was no longer "protected" by my parents. He soon started to smarten up.
The line between parent and child can become blurry at times. You just need to redraw that line.
Listen to me talking like an old pro. I should mention that my kids are still just babes (8&9 yrs old). I am talking from memories that happened a long time ago. Times as well as kids change.
Suggest perhaps the next time your son wants to go out that he should stay home as well. I mean since you have to stay home to protect his feelings, don't you deserve the same kindness.
Please don't take this as disrespect because I have the up most respect for you both. But, Both my sisters are Bi-polar and I have ADD my parents never used that as a reason to let us get away with poor respect towards them. It is not a crutch, it is a part of life. You deal with the issue and keep moving forward in life. My one sisters son has ADHD and is also a divorced mother. IMHO, I think with the guilt of the divorce and the stress of dealing with a son with ADHD she let things slide and now my nephew almost seems lost and my sister is at her ropes end.
So stick to your plan and get your son help right away, not about the swinging thing, but about other issues in his life. This may seem like the big issue now, but perhaps it was the ticket to finding the bigger picture.
Best wishes
Your rambling friend,
Prettylady

[gatorvol64]

Originally Posted by prettylady

Suggest perhaps the next time your son wants to go out that he should stay home as well. I mean since you have to stay home to protect his feelings, don't you deserve the same kindness.

I did that. So, I did good, huh?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to leave the impression that we were going to let the bi-polar be an excuse. Our oldest has ADHD and we've dealt with that. We've already had the run-in with the police. When they arrested him, they told us they could only keep him 8 hours but we could get him sooner. We made them keep him the whole 8 hours and since the officers are friends of ours they made it as bad a they could. Bright lights, cold cell by himself, and no blanket. And his friend that he was arrested with got to leave earlier than he did. We told them not to take it easy on him. But it was hard to see him put him in handcuffs.

Just because your children are young does not mean you can't have good advice and I appreciate your effort to help us out. Sharing your experiences was a great help. Thank you very much. I really respect the way you are with your children. Raising my children are the only thing I felt I am not a success at (well, of the things that really count).

Vol

[Mr. Truelove]

Originally Posted by gatorvol64

When they arrested him, they told us they could only keep him 8 hours but we could get him sooner. We made them keep him the whole 8 hours and since the officers are friends of ours they made it as bad a they could. Bright lights, cold cell by himself, and no blanket. And his friend that he was arrested with got to leave earlier than he did. We told them not to take it easy on him. But it was hard to see him put him in handcuffs.

Vol

I think that is great! I got into trouble when I was younger, and it seemed my parents always let me off the hook. Well, I kept doing it until one day it came with some stiff consequences.

Good for you to take such a bold stance.

Mr. Truelove

[LFM2]

I too think you've done good.

I didn't respond to this any sooner as Mr. LFM hadn't read the thread nor had I told him about until we were both washing dishes this morning. Our son who is also 16 was in his room putting together his new Wii and knew we had the utmost privacy. (that boy eats, lives and dreams of gaming!)

I told him of your situation and what might we might do if our situation was the same? I told him that if our son, who I'm sure already knows of our "adult" web-sites, ever made a threat against us that he would tell grandma (who'd have a stroke!) then I guess I'd have to say "Go for it!" because we're not compromising. Those are terrorist tactics in our eyes. Either you do this for me or I'm gonna tell so-and-so that you guys sleep around. Whatever. Just remember we know where you sleep.

I'm not sure if I've mentioned this, but I work in juvenile corrections. I work in a level IV setting where we get the juvenile murderers, sex offenders, gun toting burglars, robbers and other various crimes. The level of manipulation is unreal and if I can deal with 150 of them there, I can deal with one at home.

Sounds like you're already on the fast track and seriously I have the utmost respect for you guys. You're gonna do well, and I want to add that I never wanna be in your shoes.

[prettylady]

You love them, they love you.
sounds like a success story to me.
Your friend,
Prettylady