How to seduce wife's friend into 3some?

[mdraught]

My wife and I are looking to swing for the first time and we have many different fantasies but recently my wife told me how she has fantisized about a friend of hers who is single and a frequent visitor to the house for dinner, drinks and chit chat.
The question is how can we "seduce" her (that seems rather strong but you get the idea) into being with her and possibly me?
We are not sure if she is interested or even bisexual or bisexual curious but I have noticed little looks that she makes at my wife which may be my imagination but I think she is looking at her in a slightly sexual way.
I have played little games of footsie with her under the table and she hasnt pulled back from these games.
So what can we do or what can my wife do to try and get a more affirmative response from her that she is interested in something? How can she or we flirt with her to let her know our intentions? We want to make subtle flirtations at first so as not to scare her off but what can we do?
I have thought of having her over and have wife put on a shirt without a bra and or skirt without panties and give her little looksies and see if I can catch her looking at wife and showing some kind of interest and build on that.
Any other ideas?

Please help us out.

Thanks.

[Pepper & Drew]

So, if this friend is deeply offended or creeped out by your overtures if she's not interested, would your wife be ok with losing a friend? Personally, I think there are way too many other outlets to meet people to play with, both in "swinger world" and "vanilla world" that I wouldn't jeopordize a friendship, but if you feel this is the best way to procede, getting your wife to facilitate a conversation about experimenting with women and whether the friend had done it or thought about it.

Something else to consider: since you've played "footsie" with her under the table, and she didn't object, maybe she thinks you're just interested in cheating with you behind your wife's back. A lot of people don't understand swinging, and are freaked out by it, but cheating is considered "normal". In which case, it's reason 359 why I really wouldn't try to convert a friend.

Tread lightly....I could see this turning into a powder keg....

Pepper

[Alura]

Pepper offers sage advice, Mdraught. Only you two can decide if talking with your friend about swinging would threaten the friendship. If y'all think it would, don't ask her.

However, sometimes a friend to play with is exactly what a couple wants. In that case, like a Porsche, "There is no substitute."

If you think she has an open mind and, even if she says "No" would remain your friend, ask her, "How do you feel about group sex?"

It's a good idea to build up to this point by asking for her opinion on several sex-related issues before dropping the bomb. In your efforts, never ask a question that can be answered "Yes" or "No." What we need here is an essay question. Make her think in order to answer you. Your wife, not you should ask the questions. Men are pervs, y'know.

Be more interested in learning about how she thinks than getting her into bed. Your attitude will pave the way.

Alura

[Alura]

Pepper wrote:

Something else to consider: since you've played "footsie" with her under the table, and she didn't object, maybe she thinks you're just interested in cheating with you behind your wife's back.

Pepper's dead right on this one, Mdraught! Stop the footsie until your friend knows you're not trying to bed her on the sly. This is sure to be what she's thinking now, and you don't want to give that impression! She's going to be a lot more loyal to your wife than to you and, if she isn't, y'all better not even consider playing with her.

Mr. Alura

[She_n_Jaybee]

Many years ago I was in a similar situation, only reversed. Wife's best friend wanted a threesome with us. My wife at the time had experienced a few women and didn't feel any strong desire to try any more. This friend made quite a few subtle remarks over a 2 year period. I had already figured out what she wanted and was certainly in favor of fulfilling her desires. My wife didn't pick up any of the hints, so finally her friend came out and asked. My wife didn't speak to her again for nearly 2 years because of it. The sad part was we all had a great time together and socialized regularly. To me the loss of the friendship wasn't worth her attempt.

Another question to ask yourself (I know what your post says), is it really an equal desire between you and your wife for this friend? You've played footsie with her, does your wife know of this? This type of situation is very fragile. What if the friend is more interested in you than the wife? What if she's only interested in the wife? While this could be the perfect situation, it could also be a complete disaster. As everyone says, tread very carefully.

[MoonLightKiss]

Originally Posted by Alura

Pepper wrote:

Something else to consider: since you've played "footsie" with her under the table, and she didn't object, maybe she thinks you're just interested in cheating with you behind your wife's back.

Pepper's dead right on this one, Mdraught! Stop the footsie until your friend knows you're not trying to bed her on the sly. This is sure to be what she's thinking now, and you don't want to give that impression! She's going to be a lot more loyal to your wife than to you and, if she isn't, y'all better not even consider playing with her.

Mr. Alura

Another thing to consider is, what if this friend is okay with sleeping with the husband without the wifes knowledge? It may not be a matter of she being more loyal to the wife. I know that if I found out one of my friends was willing to sleep with my husband without my knowledge and permission she wouldn't be a friend for very long. And if I found out after we had all played that my husband had always known or suspected she was okay to play with him behind my back, talk about hell to pay on both their parts. Hers for being willing to stab me in the back, and his for being willing to let her by not telling me she was this way. This is definitely something you need to sit down and discuss with your wife. But I wish you both the best in whatever decision you make.

[sereneiders]

Another "don't do it here". But to call your attention to some other aspect of this.

When people is considering swinging, one of the issues is how to ensure you'd feel comfortable enough. It's often seen here that a lot of people looks for already known friends because we all want to reduce the incertainities for the event to come. We trend to base our actions on previous experiences, and since we already shared some degree of intimacy with those friends and they privide us a feeling of safety, we suppose the're would be a "shorter path" and we'd face less things to learn.

But the fact is, the intimacy you share with friends is so distant from the intimacy required to have sex, that it's like saying "We have to go to the moon, I'd better climb the Everest because we'd be closer", without realizing that the Everest put you just 0.3% closer to your goal, wich is ridiculous to ever consider the option, nor the risks of having to climb a mountain when all you need is a rocket. It's like having to break trough a surface and chosing the point where to start digging looking at where the paint is already scratched... even when that part could be the thickest area for what really care.

The fact is, this experience will be overwellming, no matter of what. You will want to get in control of as many aspects as you can, but there are aspects that you won't be able to control, even when you fool yourself believing you do it. And the only things that matter to control are the emotions of the people involved that you care of and how it could be affected by the experience. Then, you do the math: caring about just you two is way easier than caring about you two and a friend.

And it is because of this that we advice to avoid get involved with friends: you'd have too much to worry about being just two as to add complexity to the problem for free.

Moreover for your first experience. So, even if you two were having a crush on this gal and wanting to get her in your bed, I'd avoid experimenting with her. First pick an unknown gal, and once you two feel confortabe enough, just then re-evaluate the possibility to include your friend.

You may worry about the lack of trust and confort if you deal with an unknown gal. It's true, but you can set the limit and the peace as to get to knowe her and develop the required trust and confort level, from the scratch, and (more important) having everyone involved the knowledge of why you're developing then, and how.

This isn't as hard as it seems to be: it is what most swingers do.

[WesternSwing]

I've said it before, it's easier (and safer) to make friends out of swingers then swingers out of friends.

Mr. WS

[blondie77]

Ditto to everything said here!

IMO...I would look for playmates elsewhere. There are plenty of swinger sites, clubs and meet and greets for you to meet like minded people. I would just steer clear of close friends...it could lead to the loss of your friendship or cause some serious drama. It just might not be worth it.

On the other hand, if you and your wife are dead set against finding anyone else and only want this one gal, then I say proceed with caution. However, I think the games need to stop. You need to be honest with her, honest with your intentions, and be respectful to the fact that she may not want to play with either of you.

Try bringing up the topic of swinging, bisexuality or fantasies...anything to get the conversation started to find out what her opinions are before blurting out that you want her for a threeway. You definately don't want to find out that she has deep moral issues against swinging or bi play after you've asked her to jump into bed with you and your wife!

Be careful, tread lightly, be respectful of her feelings, and above all...be honest and no more games.

[dallmax1]

Stay away from your wife's friend. Trust me, I made the same mistake. Flirting is 1 thing, swinging is totally different. Things will never be the same. If you enjoy flirting with her, I suggest to never bring up swinging because flirting afterwards will be looked upon totally different (I already told him I wasn't interested and he keeps flirting with me, what an asshole!). If you value the friendship, DON'T do it. Make friends out of swingers, not swingers out of friends.

Good friends are hard to come by; swingers can come and go.

[good times]

I have to join the chorus here, don't try to make your friend into a swinger. Been there, done that, have the ex-friends to prove it.

[Alura]

I think most everybody agrees that it's dangerous to try to make swingers out of friends. We've lost two friends only because they found out we play, not that we asked them... There is no doubt of the pitfalls.

However, that's not the question Mdraught asked. He wanted to know how to ask her or tempt the lady into playing.

While we can never tell him "How to seduce wife's friend into 3some" because we don't know the lady, surely we can make some suggestions about how he and his wife might try.

On the opposite side of the coin, I have a friend I've known since 1972, about eight years before I met Mrs. Alura. In 1990 we played with him and his wife (ex-wife now). We are still good friends with both of them although we no longer play with either. If you ever come to a Meet Up! in Tulsa, you'll meet him for sure, and maybe her, too.

Among the other people we've played with, we have no ex-friends, and some of them were friends before they were playmates. It all depends on how sincerely both couples are willing to nurture the friendship.

It's definitely harder (and more dangerous) to make swingers out of friends. But, in our opinion, not impossible. Perhaps we could try to help instead of putting all our efforts into trying to dissuade.

Mr. Alura

[sapphire68]

Originally Posted by Pepper & Drew

So, if this friend is deeply offended or creeped out by your overtures if she's not interested, would your wife be ok with losing a friend?

I agree. I haven't been swinging yet for the first time but I could never impose on a friend like that.

[MoonLightKiss]

Originally Posted by Alura

...However, that's not the question Mdraught asked. He wanted to know how to ask her or tempt the lady into playing.

While we can never tell him "How to seduce wife's friend into 3some" because we don't know the lady, surely we can make some suggestions about how he and his wife might try...

Mr. Alura

Mr. Alura, You are quite right...I did this as well, completely ignoring the question he posed in order to offer up my own opinion, which I do still stand by. However, my apologies to Mdraught for not even acknowledging your question Surrender and my sincere thanks to Mr. Alura for pointing it out.

Mdraught, in response to your question, I honestly cannot tell you how to go about seducing your wife's friend for a 3 some. All women are different in how they like to be approached and I do not know this woman. However, I would say, just ask. Honesty is always the best policy I believe, and so I would say just ask her. But talk to your wife about if she would like to invite her friend, decide together what may be the best way to ask, since your wife may know her better than you do, and then perhaps decide then who approaches the friend to ask. Would this friend be more comfortable with your wife asking, you asking, or you both asking? I am sorry I can not be of more help. I do wish you the best in your pursuits.

[sereneiders]

Originally Posted by Alura

However, that's not the question Mdraught asked. He wanted to know how to ask her or tempt the lady into playing.

Mr. Alura

You're right. I appologize.

Anyway, I don't have a clue on how to do that.

I was trying to figure out how I'd tell something like this to any of my vanilla friends. The first I realize is that every friend lead me to a different scenario, and the second it that I am pretty sure that I'd lose even the most liberal of them if I try.