Relationship "Professionals"...HAH!

[intuition897]

What do y'all think of this article?

I actually sent them some 'feedback' about it. This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off.

[curious1103]

Hubby here - Sounds like "Dr. Frank" needs to get away from his ivory towers a little bit more and expose himself to some three-dimensional people and experiences.

Rather arrogant statement "People who can't have sexual fantasies without having to act them out aren't lacking in love, just imagination." Perhaps that's his problem, he's not getting any and we are. Ok, that's a low blow, I admit...

Granted the husband wasn't too helpful in saying "He claims that without it we can't have a relationship and I feel the opposite." Obviously, they need to work on their communication. The husband seems to be pushing the wife into the lifestyle and she's not ready for it, and neither is he willing to compromise by backing off.

Nonetheless, "Dr. Frank" is entitled to his assessment/opinion. Too bad "Swung Out" didn't come to this board first. She and her husband could have gotten some help from a lot of decent people here and not get the "talking down to" that she (and us) just got.

Live and let live, I always say...

[BradAndJanet]

I hope that reminds everybody to be skeptical about advice from 'experts'.

-B

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by curious1103

Nonetheless, "Dr. Frank" is entitled to his assessment/opinion. Too bad "Swung Out" didn't come to this board first. She and her husband could have gotten some help from a lot of decent people here and not get the "talking down to" that she (and us) just got.

Live and let live, I always say...

That's exactly what I was thinking. Well, that and "Jeez I hope this isn't your day job, Frank!" It just goes to show you that you can buy an education but you sure as hell can't buy wisdom.

[Spoomonkey]

Wow...

What a elitist jackass...

He brushes against some good thoughts, but then totally ruins his credibility by calling swinging adolescent and stating that swinging marriages ("all" being the implied generalization) are unstable and unhealthy.

I agree that this woman shouldn't do it - and she should stop allowing herself to be "forced". She needs to put her foot down and be strong enough to lose him if that is what it takes. Obviously she is not a swinger (nothing in the world wrong with that) and he is a manipulative ass crack (plenty wrong with that).

But this DOES NOT represent the swinging community as a whole.

Spoomonkey

[VegasLee]

First I noticed that this is very old, 10 years. Publication Date: Sep/Oct 95


Dr. Frank seems to be passing out text book advise without having any practial knowledge of the lifestyle. That is the problem that most "professionals" have when giving advise on anything.

Seems he is giving his opinion without doing any true research on the subject matter.

Another problem with giving advise on swinging is there is no good research published that I have ever seen and in swinging there is more opionion then fact. That goes true for what we all post here on these boards also. What works for me/us may or may not work for you. Does not make me right and you wrong. Just different. There is no set rules or way to swing. It is ALL personal taste and likes/dislikes.

I see tons of great advise given here in these forums and also some that scares the hell out of me that people would tell new people but that is the great thing about this forum, everyone can post what they want.

[WesternSwing]

Originally Posted by BradAndJanet

I hope that reminds everybody to be skeptical about advice from 'experts'.

-B

It always leads me to ask "so what are you an expert in, again?"

Mr. WS

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by VegasLee

First I noticed that this is very old, 10 years. Publication Date: Sep/Oct 95

OMG, Lee, I never even noticed the date! Boy do I feel like a bit of an ass.

Originally Posted by VegasLee

...Another problem with giving advise on swinging is there is no good research published that I have ever seen and in swinging there is more opionion then fact. That goes true for what we all post here on these boards also. What works for me/us may or may not work for you. Does not make me right and you wrong. Just different. There is no set rules or way to swing. It is ALL personal taste and likes/dislikes.

True, the greater part of what we all read is a matter of opinion or of experience, but surely there are underlying truths about the lifestyle (and those in it) that are unaffected by opinion. Sometimes it just is what it is. Again, this is just my opinion of things, and it can be taken for what it's worth.

I am really very interested in the serious study of swinging, its nature, its participants, its history, its merits, its negative aspects...all of it. I am concerned that there is, in reality, so little serious academic attention focused on an area that, IMO, is such an societal anomaly (or is it?). And a successful anomaly at that. It drives me crazy that no one is interested enough in the truth of the matter to gather the data necessary to dispell the myths either way. I've actually seriously considered going back to University to research it and do a thesis rooted in the Lifestyle. Yes, I'm a shit-disturber and proud of it.. lol

If anyone has any obscure links to valid studies of swinging/the Lifestyle, could you send them to me? I'm always looking for intersting reading material.

[fun_pairTX]

Break it out into syllables EX = Something that was SPURT = A drip under pressure............

Nuff said

[curious1103]

Regardless of issue or publication date, the arguments made here are still valid.

It's like Catholic priests who give counsel on marriages and relationships. How can they make such judgement calls on such issues when they aren't even allowed to be married by an edict of the Roman Catholic Church? Unless you've been exposed to certain experiences, I don't think you should be allowed to formulate opinions (perhaps formulate an opinion, but keep it to yourself), let alone give advice on such matters.

[Vantabulous]

Frankly speaking (pun intended, if you like), I'm reluctant to trust the opinion of any doctor who thinks I'm stable.

On the other hand, Mrs. Van likes to imagine that she's actually having sex with Brad Pitt when we make love and, trust me, that takes more imagination that all of you can put together collectively so perhaps Dr. Frank isn't quite the uninformed jackass that he certainly seems to be. (Have we determined that Dr. Frank is actually a male?)

Anyone notice the response to the last question in this article? First sentence: "I give advice for fun and profit." The reason the article dates back to 1995, I think, is because in 1996, "Dr. Frank" became "Dr. Phil", had a swinging experience with Oprah (she "imagined" he was Brad Pitt) and she got him his own show on TV reckoning that he had to be better on stage than in bed. (Rumor has it that Dr. Phil lost his hair as a result of Oprah trying to push his head down between her legs while Dr. Phil hollered, "If you can't fry it, I'm not going to eat it!")

Of course, that's just my opinion...

Van

P.S. intuition, I apologize if I've been "uncharacteristically" outlandish in your post. The article is horse hookey and I had a "silly" moment...

[WesternSwing]

The comments of Dr. Frank are really based on his/her personal opinion, not on fact or even impartial assessment. Which I think makes Dr. Frank a bad doctor. When psychiatrists and psychologists start helping their patients by telling them what they should think rather then helping them reach their own decisions and opinions, they fail to be doctors. It becomes more like "think like I think and you're okay. Don't, and you're wrong, uneducated, and ill." That just makes people feel worse about themselves.

Mr. WS

[robnbarb]

What is most glareing here is the Absoluteism of Dr Frank's statements, which even a first year Pshyce major knows that no statement of the human condition is absolute.

Where these "experts" get that mentality I will never understand.

[intuition897]

Originally Posted by robnbarb

Where these "experts" get that mentality I will never understand.

They go to university so that they can finally throw the weight of a degree behind their closed-minded judgmentalism.

[Alura]

I once knew a lady who was traveling the world on money she received from the State of California because she was too crazy to work.

Seems she laid down on the street in Carmel-by-the-Sea and "waited for them to come and get me." When she was hustled off to the psychiatrist, she told him he was too crazy to be a psychiatrist and explained why. She thought his entire focus was on christian morality, not mental health. He signed the necessary papers for the certification and she was off to Spain, where I met her.

I think a couple having trouble with their marriage can get much better (and more caring) advice right here on this board than with any marriage counselor. (I hope I haven't insulted anyone.)

Mr. Alura