Emotional & logistical problems of an open marriage

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by mixtupcpl

Well as long as its ok with you, thats good Im not trying to fuck with you guys, I just want to give you food for thought. But the kind of thing that makes me nervous with this is, flash forward maybe 8 years from now.

Now your wife is a still smoking hot upper 40s and the "young kid" is actually 30 and has had an 8 year relationship with her that has been physical and emotional for nearly a decade.

There is a 50/50 chance that he will be harboring some serious affection for her. He'll say "oh no! just physical and our awesome friendship!" NOW, but he may very well be clueless.

You just have to be ready for the possibility that once he is an established man (and not a Mrs. Robinson fantasy kid), he may actually try to take her away. As long as you are ok with that chance, then you're ok. It did happen to me and, well, I'm still married, so its possible but it certainly isnt an experience I'd want to deliberately repeat if you see what Im saying (and in retrospect, us just realizing what we really are - swingers - and doing it that way 5 years ago would have been WAY better for both of us)

Again, we don't have the intention of making this an ongoing thing. Once, maybe two or three times, we don't know yet. We are both still absorbing this and learning about ourselves and each other.

The only person I have to trust here is my wife. That's it. If her friend tries to steal her away, he simply won't succeed. (Who's to say men she hasn't had sex with won't try to steal her away? I'm glad that she's an attractive and desirable woman. I don't have to beat the men off with a stick...she does this herself.) This woman is my soul-mate, and I'm her soul-mate. We've worked through tough things in our marriage, and we're still together because we love, adore, respect, and are just completely devoted to each other. She would not have even considered doing this if I hadn't encouraged her and told her "If this is something you want to do, then do it. Go live out this fantasy, enjoy it to the max, and then come back and share it with me." And that's exactly what she did. And if she decides that she wants to do it again, she can. I know you are just trying to caution us, but I'm just not worried. And my wife is going to have to trust me just as much on my turn...and I know that she will, I'm not worried about that either.

Loki

[mixtupcpl]

Thats awesome Loki. To be honest, my caution was really more for her.

OK, I'm shutting up now because this horse is nearly dead.

I feel kind of close to you guys b/c our situation was so very similar. If you ever want to reach out and talk just PM (either of you).

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by arvcpl

I said it yesterday and I'll say it again, This is not over! You both have been through a lot and it is going to take more than a night of reclaiming sex and a debreifing conversation to get through all the emotional fallout that is going to occur from this.

Absolutely agree!

My wife and I have been reading this thread, and we both feel that your wife getting home safely is a misnomer. She isn't home yet, not by a long shot. She's physically home, but this is just the beginning of a very long road.

The choices you've made are ones that multiple people here told you (Loki) are major red flag raising issues. That's not to say you should lock-step with us, nod politely and agree. If you did, you would be doing what society demands swingers do (and stop swinging). Your rules have to work for you. But, the general rules out there usually have grains of truth in them. It's important to understand what those grains of truth are. and see how they apply to you.

That's just the two of you. My wife and I are also wondering what the impact is on this kid. He's got nobody to turn to for discussing this. He can't really discuss it with either of you. I feel for him. I really do.

In this thread, and during the weekend, you noted reactions and thoughts you didn't expect to have. That's to be expected, regardless of what experiences you have. Any new experiences will have unintended outcomes. That will continue to happen with this situation. Count on it. As a recommendation, I strongly advise you not have another experience with this kid at least for a few months, if not longer. There's a lot of things to work through here. A lot.

Also, lying to your daughter? That'd be right out for us. We do not lie to our children. We might omit, withhold information or choose not to discuss things at all, but we don't lie to our children, except little white lies for surprises, presents and the like. It's the same rule we give each other and we wouldn't have it any other way. In your situation, the way we would have handled it is to tell the daughter "Mommy's going away for the weekend. She'll be back Sunday evening. We know you're curious, but it's not important for you to understand further." These answers of course can change depending on the age of the child.

My wife and I were also alarmed that you had serious relationship issues as recently as six months ago. My wife said "Even if I were to try this, there'd be no way I'd try it with such issues so recently in the past. I'd wait at least a year and a half, maybe two, just to see if things stabilized and our means of handling the past issues are working" There's truth in those words. If it were just the two of you, I'd have less reservations. But, there's a child in the mix, a potential innocent victim. You are making choices that can have a dramatic impact on your daughter. You have a responsibility to her that far outweighs giving a gift to your wife. You owe it to your daughter to be exceptionally careful.

Well, that's enough preaching for one day I certainly don't mean to rain on your parade either. It's all intended for the good, and I hope it's taken that way. We, my wife and I both, wish the best for you and hope it all works out ok.

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

And some folks have mentioned a concern that we're not "doing this together" like conventional swinging. Well, we ARE doing this together, we are "collaborating" with each other...the only part I wasn't there for was the actual event itself. I want my wife to be my best friend (or one of them), and I want to be her best friend (or one of them). During planning and talking about her encounter, I've had to take off the "hubby" hat and put on the "best friend" hate many times to insure that I'm telling her what I think is best for her and that I have no selfish motivations in anything I'm telling her. I don't doubt at all that she'll do the same hat-switching with me for my turn. I think this is part of being a mature adult in a long term relationship...being able to switch hats and be unselfish when you need to.
Loki

I never have and would never consider removing my "husband hat" just so I can be my wife's best friend. They aren't mutually exclusive. If they start to be so, there's a huge problem. A great big whopping neon sign saying "PROBLEM HERE!"

If you can't be unselfish without removing the "husband hat" there's a problem. My "husband hat" and "best friend hat" are both enhanced by my wife having fun with another man, and if both sides of me aren't in with it than I'm not in with it. Relationships have multiple facets. They should never be exclusionary to each other.

I don't think you can love someone fully by repressing some feelings at one moment and other feelings at other moments. Be whole, complete, and love fully.

[iapr]

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

We are not garden-variety swingers because we don't feel like it fits us well. If we had gone to a swinger party and banged it out with another couple, my wife would have come home crying also...probably moreso than from this experience.
Loki

How do you know, you haven't tried it.

[fun4Ds]

Originally Posted by iapr

How do you know, you haven't tried it.

I have to agree on this one. As a couple, we aim to please

[iapr]

Originally Posted by LokisFemaleHalf

#2) All the effort, time, chats, talking, blah blah is and was a good thing for my marriage. We are closer now than ever. This situation has fostered intimacy and has reborn a close relationship. I have gained a lifetime friend. I am not in love with him, nor do I want to be.

This could very likely have also occured if you two had checked out some clubs and interacted with established lifestyle couples as well and probably even more since you would have been meeting people and interacting with them together as a couple.

Originally Posted by LokisFemaleHalf

#3) I have to choose my sexual partners carefully. I always have. For me it takes more than a casual meeting or two and then a roll in the hay. I have to connect on an intellectual and friendship level. That is what I did.

News flash here - every single other woman in the lifestyle says the same thing with complete sincerity. All women in the lifestyle that attend clubs, partys, meet and greets etc all say the same thing. You are not unique in that respect. Every woman needs to connect and needs to feel comfortable and attracted. Why do you think that that cannot occur at a club or some other traditional lifestyle venue? Why do you two have it so ingrained in your heads that a lifestyle club is a place you walk into, get naked and fuck the first person you bump into? You haven't even been to one and you have crossed it off of the possibility list.

If you need to connect on an intellectual level that is fine, connect on an intellectual level then, people in the lifestyle are not dumb. If you need to interact with people for a length of time and on an ongoing basis for you to feel comfortable that is fine too. We have known and gone out with some couples for well over a year before there was any physical contact at all. That is the great beauty about the lifestyle, every individual can set their own price tag on their own sexuality.


My point in all of this is there is a whole world of adventure within the lifestyle and each individual in fully in charge of their own sexuality and can pursue their own interests in their own manner.

I don't think what you did is wrong or that anyone made any mistakes. My point is that if you two had explored the lifestyle together as a couple and gone out into the real world together as a couple and interacted with flesh and blood people together as a couple you would have had all the benifits you are describing and probably a whole lot more if you had done it together. And you would have had a whole lot less emotional turmoil and a lot less emotional cost and anguish.

In other words you would have gotten a whole lot more payoff for a whole lot less cost and whole lot less risk. People have been trying to tell you this all along but you haven't been heading their advice.

[bbarnsworth]

Wholeheartedly agree with iapr.

Also, one of the major red flags that shot up for my wife and I is this kid did not want to have your husband present.

There are people within the lifestyle that are comfortable with swapping in separate rooms, but to my knowledge (someone correct me if I'm wrong) the vast majority of them are comfortable with same room swapping too. This kid isn't comfortable with that, and that says to us that he's wanting more emotionally, and is quite insecure in himself. I.e., he's not mature enough to handle a swinging relationship. That sets the stage for potential drama and also damage to both the kid and to yourself.

One of your desires in spending a weekend with this kid was to 'train' him. Well, sex is something you certainly can become better at through training. More important is the mental and emotional components of a person. This kid may have been weakened by this experience in that regard.

From what I've seen, everything you've hoped to achieve through a weekend away with this kid could have just as readily been achieved by 'traditional' swinging. Just our opinion. No, we're not trying to harsh on you. We really aren't. We want you to be happy, whole and fulfilled. That's why we're saying this. Do yourself a favor, and give traditional swinging a try. You might be surprised at the results.

[lovefest04]

I want to first congratulate Sif and Loki for stepping outside of their comfort zones and into the unknown.

Yes, they are both clearly intelligent and have given the matter a great deal of thought (much more than we did when we got started) and I have to say a little bit more thought may have kept us out of a few sticky situations.

I am, however, a bit surprised by the final few threads here. So what if it took a lot of time and emotional brainpower, so what if it took a bunch of money and a weekend away. How they chose to pursue their fantasy is completely up to them.

I feel the genuine concern and love that most all of the posts have. In some ways I feel that the harshest critics are at some level trying to "save" Sif and Loki from making the same mistakes others before them have made. However, many of us have children and we know that isn't always possible or even the best. Generally, we need to make our own mistakes. The good news is that sometimes there is no mistake, even if we old folks are sure of it.

Sif, I hope you enjoyed every minute of your adventure. I also know that over time you two will find a great deal of joy, eroticism and fun in talking and reliving your encounter(s), together as husband and wife.

Have fun in all your future encounters, you seem like really great people. From what I've read here, I'd love to spend time sipping a fine wine and just getting to know you both, non-sexually even.

Finally, don't get any wild ideas of bungie jumping for your next anniversary, that shit scares me to death and its very dangerous. I hear people have gotten hurt.

S

[fun4Ds]

Originally Posted by lovefest04

I want to first congratulate Sif and Loki for stepping outside of their comfort zones and into the unknown.

Yes, they are both clearly intelligent and have given the matter a great deal of thought (much more than we did when we got started) and I have to say a little bit more thought may have kept us out of a few sticky situations.

I am, however, a bit surprised by the final few threads here. So what if it took a lot of time and emotional brainpower, so what if it took a bunch of money and a weekend away. How they chose to pursue their fantasy is completely up to them.

I feel the genuine concern and love that most all of the posts have. In some ways I feel that the harshest critics are at some level trying to "save" Sif and Loki from making the same mistakes others before them have made. However, many of us have children and we know that isn't always possible or even the best. Generally, we need to make our own mistakes. The good news is that sometimes there is no mistake, even if we old folks are sure of it.

Sif, I hope you enjoyed every minute of your adventure. I also know that over time you two will find a great deal of joy, eroticism and fun in talking and reliving your encounter(s), together as husband and wife.

Have fun in all your future encounters, you seem like really great people. From what I've read here, I'd love to spend time sipping a fine wine and just getting to know you both, non-sexually even.

Finally, don't get any wild ideas of bungie jumping for your next anniversary, that shit scares me to death and its very dangerous. I hear people have gotten hurt.

S

We agree as well

Loki, you rock man You will always do well, there are allot of women who will find you charming...

Sif, your amazing by your own rights ... Simply amazing...

Swingers at heart Lovers in arms...

[hughb]

Hi all - first time poster, long time lurker. This has been a fascinating thread and my wife and I have thoroughly enjoyed all perspectives.

It does seem like a risky way of jumping into this swinging scene but your discussions, "contracts", and research probably removed the majority of the risks. I do imagine there will be some "drama" from the "dildo with a pulse." Putting myself in his shoes, I can't imagine not having SOME attachment to the cougar attack.

But...he'll get over it. As long as he doesn't have your home phone number or know where you live it shouldn't be too big a deal. Besides he got what he wanted. Someday he'll realize how lucky he was.

Anyhow, happy it all worked out and you did not become crawlspace stuffing.

hughb

[mixtupcpl]

Hi Hugh! Welcome. What's the status with you and the better half? Cautiously exploring, just curious, or in LS?

Loki, I'm thread jacking you b/c you're not posting :P

[CallMeLoki]

Well, thanks for the well-wishing folks. Yeah, the young dude may be feeling some emotional attachment, or he may not. He knew the deal going into this. If he is, you are exactly correct...he'll get over it. He'll end up with a job and a girl-friend, he'll get married, have kids, and I hope he'll maintain a friendship with my wife. But, I really don't think he'll be stalking her 10 years from now and trying to steal her away.

Loki

[bbarnsworth]

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

Well, thanks for the well-wishing folks. Yeah, the young dude may be feeling some emotional attachment, or he may not. He knew the deal going into this. If he is, you are exactly correct...he'll get over it. He'll end up with a job and a girl-friend, he'll get married, have kids, and I hope he'll maintain a friendship with my wife. But, I really don't think he'll be stalking her 10 years from now and trying to steal her away.

Loki

I hope it all works out wonderfully. I really do. It isn't any of our business how you and your wife conduct your marriage. If we've offended, I think I can speak for all of us that we're just trying to help, and no offense was intended.

[LokisFemaleHalf]

I like you. And if I am ever in Northern Cali we shall sip wine. We made our choices, did not plan to ever do this, it just evolved. It is done and over, and other than some emotional turmoil because I was never a "casual sex" kind of girl, I am fine, hubby is fine, and I will not be swinging anytime soon, no offense. We all have to make our own choices and live with those choices, and we are fine. Love, Hugs, Kisses.....