Emotional & logistical problems of an open marriage

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by mixtupcpl

BTW - did you say WEEK alone??? Is that a typo or is she actually away for a full week and not just a weekend?

Ooops! I meant weekend...she drove there Thursday and spent the night by herself, just to "chill". He showed up about 11am or so on Friday. She'll be coming home on Sunday.

Loki

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by mixtupcpl

RE: the hookup with a close platonic friend...

I wouldnt do it, personally. Been in that situation as well and, while we came close, ultimately decided to walk away from that.

It's so tempting for the reasons you point out, but it will change things almost inevitably.

I had two single platonic friends who did this and it was a mess both during and then afterward. The friendship isnt worth that risk.

Good points. But then again...most folks said we were absolutely crazy to send her away for a weekend alone with someone she met on the Internet, and I certainly feel like that is being successful. Seems like swinging with a very trusted friend would be a piece of cake after this! We made sure that she'd be at least as safe as she is anywhere else she might go alone, and she's having a good time. And I don't think she's been calling me from the alledged crawlspace where one poster said the police might find her body. We don't jump into things like this with reckless abandon...we think it over and talk it over very carefully.

Loki

[CallMeLoki]

I feel like my wife and I are so complementary to each other. I'm very logical but still emotional, and she's very emotional, but still logical. We influence each other, and it's usually in good ways. I feel like we've established more emotional intimacy with each other over the past year or two than we've ever had (and some of it was painful for both of us). We were having a tough time about 6 months ago, but she REALLY turned us around. We are finally able to tell each other absolutely anything, and know that we won't punish each other, even if we don't particularly like what we're hearing. Ya know, I really couldn't be happier with "us" than I am right now. She is such an unusually wonderful person...she truly deserves this "gift"!

Neither one of us would EVER even consider cheating on the other...it's just not in either one of us to do that. But now we've given each other permission to have sex with other people...at least a few times. That's what I meant by "have our cake and eat it too". We've essentially given each other permission to act on a crush or infatuation, I think is the most accurate way to put it. That's not exactly "swinging"...I'd say it's more of an "open marriage". We've both been completely faithful to each other, and this is our way of rewarding each other, I think.

I was thinking. The "friends" posts above remind me...the person she's with this weekend isn't what I'd call a "swing partner". He's more of a friend to her (now FWB, at least once). They argue and debate politics and economics. She's helping him land a job. They discuss relationship issues. (And yes, I'm fine with that.) She advises him on finding a girlfriend. They have a connection. She adores him, and he adores her. I think they'll probably be friends for a long time...maybe FWB's another time or two, but I doubt this is something she'd want to continue long-term. She isn't "in-love" with him, and I think that she's emotionally mature enough to not let herself get to that point. And even if she did, I think she would come to me and tell me "I'm feeling in-love with this person...I need you to help me handle this...I need you to talk me out of it!" I really don't think my wife could just go screw someone she just met and doesn't know well as a person. The reality is that I don't think I could either. So, maybe this is slipping slightly into the "Polyamory" category? Now, her cyber-BF ain't moving in with us or anything (well, unless he's willing to do the laundry for her and maintain the yard for me, in addition to servicing her when she wants it. ), but I expect they'll have a long-term friendship (and I'm fine with that). They may lose touch after he's gotten a job, gotten a girlfriend or gotten engaged/married, etc. But even if they do, I'm sure this will always be a fond memory for my wife, and I'm sure it'll be a fond memory for him as well.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think it's OK for her to let herself feel some emotions along with the physical satisfaction. I would want to allow myself to feel some emotions along with the physical satisfaction. I think we just have to keep the perspective that it's a temporary relationship of an amorous nature (a "crush" or "infatuation"), where our marriage is a permanent relationship based on a deep emotional connection, the commitments we've made to each other, and all the history we've built together. I've had other infatuations before (I never acted on them, this was before we arrived here), BUT I'm still totally infatuated with my wife after 12 years of marriage...always have been. This just seems to jive with the "seperate lust from love" idea...I completely love and lust after my wife, but it's possible to lust after other women at the same time...it doesn't mean I love them nor does it mean that I don't love my wife...it's just lust, a totally chemical reaction.

Loki

[fun4Ds]

Loki, All I can say is your truly amazing. Their is alot of men in the world that could learn alot from you......

If by chance we ever meet. I'm buying you a cold beer my friend

May I ask how you and Sif came up with your screen names ?

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by fun4Ds

Loki, All I can say is your truly amazing. Their is alot of men in the world that could learn alot from you......

Aw shucks. Why do you say that?

I just *try* to let my heart and my head duke things out, and it seems like I usually come up with good decisions.

Boy, I'm burning up this thread aren't I? I had to talk somewhere...can't talk to our closest friends about this one!

Loki

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by fun4Ds

May I ask how you and Sif came up with your screen names ?

Good question. If you've ever read any Norse mythology, Loki and Thor were Odin's sons. Loki was the god of mischief, and Thor was the god of thunder. Thor was married to a beautiful blonde goddess named Sif. While Thor was out making swords all day (thus the thunder he made), Loki was bonking his beautiful wife. When Odin discovered Loki's transgressions, he kicked him out of Asgard forever and banished him to Earth.

The choice for my wife to have the screen name of Sif was easy. For me, I struggled between Thor (since he was Sif's hubby...I'm also a bassist, so making thunder is also something I do!), but I also have a slightly mischievous nature , so I finally decided on Loki instead. I do bonk Sif, so I figured that worked!

Of course, this weekend I guess you could say I'm Thor and Sif is off frolicking with Loki!

Loki/Thor

[CallMeLoki]

Hey folks...well, I'd have to say my emotional rollercoaster has really acquiesed quite a bit. I'm still thrilled for my wife, and hoping she's getting some more good action tonight. I think her last phone call really helped me reel myself in to my more normal state of my usual calmness/non-nervousness. We talked for a bit and she was able to actually respond with more than "yes" or "no" (I think she really didn't want to talk in front of her guest...not sure why, but that's the vibe I got). But, that last call was more like our normal conversations...I guess I was missing her, and just being able to talk more like normal for a few minutes felt reassuring I suppose?

And her one whispered comment just still rings in my head: "No one can hold a candle to you." That one comment settled my nervousness...I don't know why, an expression from her of total love and appreciation of me even though she's in a hotel suite banging it out with another man, I guess? Boy, it just really impacted me. It's not like I was really worried, or feeling insecure, or anything like that...I guess it was just one of those heart-felt statements that really hits you, ya know? I guess she's doing exactly what we agreed to in our "playtime agreement"...insuring that she makes me feel loved first. There ya go.

Loki

[mixtupcpl]

My wife never wanted to talk when she was out beyond "yes Im ok" either. It caused lots of conflicting emotions in her (mainly guilt over what she was doing) that were tough to fight and could make the whole thing pointless.

I think no matter how "safe" the environment is for something like this, human nature is what it is and neither party can just put all of that away fully if they really do care about their partner. It's the complete separation aspect of this specific scenario, I think, that makes the pangs of guilt (even if there is NO need to feel guilt), more acute.

I'd guess you'll feel the same (I know I did when I finally started fucking someone else during our arrangement). Torn between feeling guilty about what's happening, and not wanting to offend the person your with, and then feeling guilty about putting that stranger first, etc.

[CallMeLoki]

Thanks, Mix. Actually that makes a lot of sense. I guess there's a fantasy surrealness to it, and talking to me brings it back to reality, or something along those lines then huh? Hadn't thought of that. It's a protection mechanism against feeling guilt at the moment. So, I'm glad I left her alone and didn't call her but once that first day. And you're right, I'm sure I'll feel guilt too, and come to think of it, I'd probably do the same thing...not want to talk other than "yes" or "no". I'll have to remember though that I should at least tell her something that let's her know that I'm still hers even though I might be with someone else.

Actually, she hasn't wanted to talk to our daughter, so I knew there was some reason, and what you said makes a lot of sense. She knows our daughter will be asking all kinds of questions about what she's doing, and she'll have to lie to her. There's instant guilt for my wife.

So, tell me this...when she gets home, what can I do to help her dump any guilt she might be feeling?

Loki

[CallMeLoki]

Man...now I'm wishing I hadn't asked her any questions at all. I hope I haven't made her feel any guilt while she's there. This is something we should have talked about before she went, but it never occurred to me that we should discuss ahead of time about any communication between us. All my wife said was "I don't want to give any details while I'm there, I want to wait until I get home", to which I definitely agreed. I simply couldn't stop myself from asking a couple yes or no questions without asking for any details though. Man, I wish I had realized this beforehand.

Loki

[CallMeLoki]

OK, folks...based on what Mix said, I should assume that my beloved wife will come home with some feelings of guilt. You folks give me some suggestions on how to help her overcome any guilt she might have. She doesn't need to feel any guilt...she had my absolute blessing to do this, and I'm fine with anything that happened (even if some rules were accidentally broken). Knowing the conscientious person that my wife is, she will probably have some guilt. It's my job to help her get past it. So, advise me folks! I want her return home to filled with reasurrance, comfort, and approval.

I'd also assume that I shouldn't start pounding her with questions when she gets here, right? I should just let her tell me all about it when she's ready, I'd think. I've got to remember to keep this about her, and not make it "about me" by hitting her with all sorts of questions before she's ready to tell me about it (no matter how much the suspense might be killing me when she gets here, this is about her, not about me).

Mix, I'm so glad you made that post!

Loki

[mixtupcpl]

Personally, I think you guys will be in good shape because of the environment you created for each other. Just be excited for her and happy to see her and let her ease into talking at her own pace.

I can tell you what NOT to do When my wife came home the first few times I made it WAY worse. Without going into it too much, I was younger and an asshole really and I knew how to be hurtful.

She would then get furious, say that I was an asshole for agreeing only to make her feel like a whore, etc. Then we'd fight. Then make up, rinse repeat.

If you just stick with the plan, you'll be good. Personally, I think its more what NOT to do. And you're right re: your daughter, thats exactly what that was.

[josephanthony69]

First, I haven't read the whole thread so please don't hate me for jumping in, but this is a comment from the "other" side of the fence - presently in a couple of First time MFM's (now ongoing) as the other M.
It has to be pre-meeting first where everyone (M, F, & M) are comfy with one another!!
Next, it has to be fun, exciting, different, erotic, and SAFE!! for all concerned!
Hope you all enjoy it and remember, as we age, there is a difference between love and lust - love is at home - lust can be whatever your fantasies want it to be!

Originally Posted by mixtupcpl

OK, I think you're real (confession - I havent been fully sure). Or if you're not real, you do understand this situation well from the point of view of someone in it

So first, you're handling this very well. Kudos on that!

I've been where you are actually. It was harder for me because it was earlier in our relationship and, while I did believe her that she wouldnt leave (and didnt), I was young (still 20s) and its just not something easy to handle at that age.

My wife (then GF) and I did this for a few years. Just some things to see coming and not let screw you up:

1) you're going to want details, but they MAY hurt. It's different then swinging because, in the end, its still a single guy fucking your girl and you're still kind of left out. You can get past it, but it's going to be a masochistic pleasure

2) she's going to outnumber you. Been said before, needs repeating. My wife had like 5 "dates" before it seemed the ink was dry on our "agreement" (figurative - we didnt do anything in writing )

3) you can believe her that she is for real with you (IF she is - only you know), but trust me... MANY of the guys she sees will think that you're a loser, that she isn't getting it from you and that she needs to drop the dead weight and get with THE MAN (them). It may not be the case with this guy (maybe you got lucky) but if you continue open (and not swinging) it WILL happen. I have to say that DAMN this used to piss me off.

4) when a guy would push hard for my wife to leave me (and again, we werent married yet then - just LONG term couple), she would break it off. Your wife NEEDS to do this too.

One area where I think you guys are in a far better spot than we were is you are already a secure couple and you're an established guy. When my wife and I were living this LS, we were just mid-20s, new careers, no kids. The guys after her were mid 30s well established, etc. So there WERE times I thought "Oh Fuck - maybe she WILL leave". One guy in particular had me VERY worried because, being honest, he exceeded me in every area, but she stayed (and actually, ended up really disliking that guy)

Thats all I got on this. PM me if you want to talk more man. I'm not sure how many people have really traveled this road (or can), EVEN on a board like this (which is ironic), so I feel we need to stick together.

For us, it only made us stronger and now (in our upper 30's) are ready to full swap swing (if we can just get past our individual insecurities)

[mixtupcpl]

Joseph...

Totally agree. This situation is a bit different though. It's really an "open marriage" thing and not really a swap/swing thing.

I've been through that with my wife very early on (but for very different reasons than Loki), so I figured I'd share some of what to expect.

I still feel that an open marriage and swinging are VERY different (although in Loki's case, maybe not so much given the foundation they've laid - no pun) Emotionally though, there is a big difference in the impact (even if you do everything you can to prepare)

[sexcupid]

Hey Loki!

Hope this finds you before your wife arrives home.

You ask how to make her feel less 'guilty'? Hug her, kiss her, hold her tight when you first see her. That in itself is reassuring. While in theory you are accepting of what she is doing, and KNOWING what she is doing. There is still that doubt that can creep into the mind of 'how is he going to react?' The way you greet her can either alleviate her worry or reenforce the idea that what she did was 'wrong'.