Emotional & logistical problems of an open marriage

[birdnhand123]

Chicup is right. The MFM's are easy to score since there are so many horn dogs out there who are willing to slip in. Most of our playtime has been couples only but we've had 1 on 1's with each others consent, call it a PLAY date.

Make sure you understand the elusive FMF may never come your way and are alright with this reality before you proceed. If you two are ok with each other hooking up, I would suggest 1 on 1's, then no one gets burned, there are definitely hornettes out there that want NSA sex buddies and couples that are willing to allow single play. At least when your MFM works out and FMF doesn't, you won't feel as left out.

[LokisFemaleHalf]

Originally Posted by fun4Ds

Oh I dont know, being there with them might be fun. I like MFM playing as much as Mrs.fun does Unless you just need a camera guy. I would like that also

Enjoy

Well, guess what? He is coming to visit and we are going to a concert! Playtime! This time, hubby gets to join in after some hot foreplay....alone....to be continued! I love this life!

[CallMeLoki]

Ah...I've missed some posts!

Yes, the dude is coming to visit. Sif wants some more alone time, and would like to have that MFM threesome. I'm definitely game.

And yes, I've chosen my best female friend for my first go. Sif wasn't comfortable with that choice at first, but she's stretched for me and that's very cool. We've all been friends for many years, and know each other well.

Anyway, Sif laid a little groundwork for me by telling her a couple times "you should just do my hubby". Then, I told her one night as I was taking her home from a meeting we'd been at that I wanted to have a really candid conversation with her. I asked her whether she'd rather talk face to face, or rather me write her a letter or something. (She's got a shy streak.) She thought for a bit, and said "Write me a letter".

So, I did. Part of it was quite erotic and steamy as I described that I wanted to take her away for a weekend and why. Then more the "caring" stuff I tend to write, letting her know that our friendship is much more important to me than whether she decides yes or no to a "fantasy weekend" with me. I sent her the letter Monday afternoon, and she responded this morning (Wed). She's still thinking about it (there's an additional complication I won't mention lest I get slain), but her answer sure sounded like "maybe". I think she needs to talk face to face with both me alone and my wife alone. I actually think that if we talk about it enough, she'll get more comfortable with the idea, and might very well end up saying "what the hell, let's go". And if she doesn't, that's fine too. I really do value my friendship with her more than a good weekend romp. I know that as long as I don't pressure her, asking isn't going to hurt us. If we actually go off and do it, that won't hurt us either. She's very emotionally mature, in my opinion. So, I'm really comfortable that she's a good choice. She's a great person on the inside, and a total hottie on the outside.

She grew up Catholic and has always been a bit shy and reserved about sex. She actually calls herself a "prude". Her and I have been close friends for quite a long time, we trust each other, we're very comfortable being alone with each other, don't think twice about hugging each other or kissing each other (sometimes on the lips, although it's not sexual, more of a quick peck that's a simple show of affection), etc. Part of it feels like a challenge to me...I think I could turn this "prude" into a "dirty little slut" for a weekend. (No offense at all intended by my word choices, ladies!) I damn sure want to try! I actually had no idea how she'd respond to my letter...in my assessment, it could have been anything from "Have you lost your mind?" to "What the hell took you so long?"

Anyway, I think I have a "maybe". That's good..."maybe" usually seems to become "yes" for me. So, you guys wish me some luck here on this one!

Loki

[sexcupid]

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

She's still thinking about it (there's an additional complication I won't mention lest I get slain), but her answer sure sounded like "maybe".

Too late dear...you already dimed yourself out earlier in this thread when you mentioned that she is married. Since you state there is an additional complication, I would assume that she is mulling over not making her husband aware of the situation?

Dude...c'mon. Unless you are considering a full swap with her hubby...find someone who isn't attached.

[fun4Ds]

I was just thinking the same thing

You have been straight up so far, is it true ?

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by fun4Ds

You have been straight up so far, is it true ?

Oh yeah, I'm definitely a straight up kinda person. And yes, she's married...but it's not exactly good for her. We all know that and so does she.

I don't feel a bit of guilt about asking her...her hubby has asked my wife to sleep with him (she said "no"). He's made some very selfish choices where she's concerned (like engaging in some play on a trip once, without inviting her, without asking her...she heard him in the other room and busted him). There's very little doubt in my mind that if he had an offer like this, he'd be all over it and never tell her. She, however, actually has a conscience, and I'd imagine one of her pondering points is "do I tell him or not?"

We haven't talked about this yet, but essentially she has 3 choices: 1) don't tell him (what he'd choose without a second thought, but this would create guilt for her though), 2) tell him what she's gonna do, but not with whom (I'd say her most likely choice...hard for her though, she's not that brave...however, this might give him a swift kick in the ass and cause him to make some much needed changes!), or 3) tell him what she's gonna do and with whom (I doubt she'd choose this, she'd want to protect me and my wife I think...if she does, I'm not at all afraid to go ask his "permission"...I actually don't see how he could say "no" to me.)

I know I'm going to get chewed up and spit out for this, but then you folks don't actually know us or them, so don't judge too harshly. Here's how I see it: He asked my wife without telling me, that gives me implicit permission to ask his wife without telling him. Sounds fair to me. What she decides in terms of telling him or not telling him is her decision, not mine (although she will need to tell me so I'll know what to expect). It's her marriage and her responsibility to manage. It's my responsibility to manage my marriage. If she decides "no", I won't try to persuade her. If she decides "yes", I'll take it and I'll go with however she thinks is best to handle her hubby. I don't think I'd make this choice with anyone else, but this is a special situation in my mind.


And I know what's coming..."you'll get drama". No, not from her. She's a level-headed woman, and we won't get any kind of drama from her. She loves me as a friend, she loves my wife, my wife loves her, my wife loves me, I love my wife...none of us would want to damage our friendship, so that keeps anything from getting out of hand. (In fact, one of the things she expressed concern over in her first response was that it might impact my wife and I...she respects our relationship.) She is a good choice in this sense because I know that she just won't create any drama.

Loki

[slevin]

Well, here is my take on the whole married thing:

It might not be good for her and he might be a dick, but they are married. If she doesn't want to be married anymore then she needs to do something about it. Just because some guy propositioned my wife doesn't mean that I'm now going to feel good about sinking to his level and propositioning his wife to fuck me behind his back. I don't like it when someone does that with Katrina and I and I certainly won't do it to anyone else, regardless of their situation.

If the guy is a dick I just won't associate with him. What it comes down to is that their marriage has issues, which comes with drama and I don't want to be involved in (or cause) any drama. There are so many other people out there that it's just not worth it to me. You can discount the whole drama thing, but really you're just stuffing your head in the sand. I've had drama come out from the most level headed and logical people. The ones who you'd never think caused drama.

This is all side from my main point though; I want people to respect my marriage and I am going to respect theirs, even if they don't. Anyone who doesn't respect my marriage gets cut out of my life. I won't even consider playing with one half of a couple unless I know that they both are aware of it, both approve of it and are both interested in it.

To be honest I think you have your blinders on due to being so close to the situation. You can discount the fact that no one here knows you or them, but sometimes not fully knowing lets people have a clearer view of the situation than being heads down involved in it.

Either way, I know none of this is going to change your mind and it wasn't intended to try and persuade you at all. My perspective, something to chew on if you're inclined.

[mixtupcpl]

Agree 100% with Slevin. As a rule of thumb, I try to be very careful with the "eye for an eye" logic. I've had it work out not so well for me in the past with much more serious things. Plus, if the husband really IS an ass, this one could quickly elevate to that "pretty serious" level.

One of Mrs. Mix's playmates was married (bad marriage, lousy wife, yadda yadda, whatever) It's the drama of that whole situation that really lead us to abandoning the open marriage.

Do what you want, but at least don't delude yourself into thinking that this situation won't lead to problems. It doesn't take intimate knowledge of all participants to know that. As a matter of fact, LACK of intimate knowledge of all participants probably makes it easier to recognize.

[bbarnsworth]

100% with slevin. If the couple is married, there's not going to be any solo action unless both spouses know about it happening, with whom and are in total complete consent. I expect people to respect our marriage, and I sure as heck am not going to spin around and not respect other people's marriages.

Shunting the decision of screwing up her marriage to her isn't fair to her, much less him and their marriage. I don't care if he's the epitome of a walking, breathing, cretin. If she wants to have a weekend romp with you without his permission, she'd better at least get separated first. At least, that's how I'd handle it.

This is one of the main reasons why my wife and I are reluctant to play with single males. Verifying they are truly single is essentially impossible, and I don't want to screw up someone's marriage.

You're playing with fire on this one Loki.

[Alura]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

You're playing with fire on this one Loki.

I agree completely, Bbarnsworth.

However, this may be part of the motivation of Loki. He seems to think the adventure can be carried off without problems. He is in a far better position than I to determine that.

So I'll wish all involved the best and hope that no shootin' irons are drawn.

Too bad Loki's wife doesn't seem to be interested in Mr. Playmate. A partner swap could be such a simple and fun answer.

Mr. Alura

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by Alura

Too bad Loki's wife doesn't seem to be interested in Mr. Playmate. A partner swap could be such a simple and fun answer.

About 13 years ago, this would have probably been a realistic possibility. Once, the four of us ended up in my bed making out with our partners. If there hadn't been other folks there at this particular party, I have a feeling clothes very well may have started coming off. However, nowadays, I don't think too many women are attracted to this fellow...he can't seem to beg a lay from anyone, even his wife. He's a handsome fellow, nothing wrong there...his totally selfish mindset of "what's in this for me?" is the problem...you can talk to him for 30 seconds and see he's only after whatever he can get for himself, with very little regard for anyone else.

So, question: even if the playmate says "yes I have my spouse's permission", how do you know that's actually true? Even if you talk to the spouse to verify, how do you know that the spouse isn't being coerced into saying "he/she has my permission"? You don't. The only perspective that makes sense to me is that it's her responsibility to manage her marriage...that's not my business.


I know that she doesn't deal with guilt well, so if she decides "yes", then I'd fully expect her to probably take option #2 (tell him what she's going to do but not who she's going to do it with). That's what I'd actually expect. In reality, that choice could have a good effect for her rather than a bad one. I would expect him to respond one of two ways:

1) "Whoa! Holy shit! I don't want you to do that!" And maybe this would strike some fear into him and make him realize he's got to start making the right choices. (In this case, I'd expect her to come back to me and say "I can't do this", which I'll accept.)

Or, more likely...

2) Take a his normal completely selfish perspective and say "OK, go ahead...I get to do it too." He doesn't realize it, but this would actually work against him. (That's what you get for being selfish sometimes.) She's gorgeous and just loved by everyone...she could have 10 encounters by the time he's still begging for one. Him sitting there seeing his wife have all of the fun would damn sure give him some knots in his stomach and make him go "Oh shit, I am really screwing up here. I really need to change."

So, maybe it would turn out good for her in the long run. Maybe it would turn out good for him in the long run. Maybe it'll give her the strength to change what she needs to change. Maybe it'll give her a good memory that helps her endure what she isn't happy about. Or maybe it'll make her so dissatisfied with what she has that she forces something to change. (For that matter, even me asking might have the effect of giving her enough gumption to either kick his ass into shape or kick him out.) I can say from personal experience, sometimes making a drastic choice has a good effect that you didn't expect. Ultimately, whether she says yes or no, and how she handles her marriage is her decision, not mine.

I have made my choice already by asking. Sif supports me in that choice. I'm prepared to deal with any consequences. The worst consequence is that I lose his friendship, and I don't feel like that's a huge loss if it happens. The woman in question is far from a slut...if she wasn't already "emotionally divorced", there's no way in hell she'd even consider saying "yes".

I very rarely make selfish choices myself. However, this is my one selfish choice for this decade, and yeah, it's a doozy ain't it? If you're gonna be bad, you might as well do it right. In the grand scheme of things, I really don't feel that bad about it.

Loki

[bbarnsworth]

This has warning signs and crossbones&skulls written all over it.

Well, it's your life. Enjoy.

[CallMeLoki]

Originally Posted by bbarnsworth

This has warning signs and crossbones&skulls written all over it.

Well, it's your life. Enjoy.

Yup, I know. That's what most people said about Sif's encounter too.

Loki

[Chicup]

I agree 100% with Chicup on this one.... oh wait....

Anyways this is a very interesting thread because the things done are almost 100% opposite to what I and Mrs. Chicup would do. Its one of those where I wish there was a 5 year follow up to see how things worked out, sadly we rarely get posts like that here.

Loki, and btw, excellent name choice considering this thread, I do appreciate you keeping up with this thread as it can give a different perspective. I hope you continue to do so, and honestly report, because it is so different than just about any of us would do.

[LikeMinds321]

Originally Posted by CallMeLoki

The woman in question is far from a slut...if she wasn't already "emotionally divorced", there's no way in hell she'd even consider saying "yes".

I very rarely make selfish choices myself. However, this is my one selfish choice for this decade, and yeah, it's a doozy ain't it?

Loki

Here you admit to realizing that if this woman, a person you call your friend, was a happily married woman there would be no way she'd even consider playing with you...or doing any swinging!

You are right on one thing, you're a selfish man. And if your woman "friend" ever read this thread I doubt she'd want to be your friend any longer.

You are taking advantage of her in the worst way; she's in a bad marriage and women in bad marriages are targets for guys like you.

LM