The Quality of a Vanilla Relationship

[Cloud of Love]

There's been some talk in other threads about the relative quality of swinger vs. vanilla relationships.

My wife and I have been discussing swinging for years, usually just as a way to make ourselves more horny, but more seriously lately. Also lately my wife has been encouraging me to visit strip clubs and be friendly with the dancers, and to come home and tell her about my adventures. Well, I'm not stupid, so I have been doing this. Had a great time last night for example, and we had a great time discussing it after I came home, and it led to some great sex/lovemaking.

The key part of the discussion came down to this: the timing in our life is not right for actual swinging...too many other things going on. And the timing may never be right. But we want still to explore sex as much as possible together, and (in my wife's words) visiting strip clubs and having fun with the lap dances is a safe way to do this considering the other things going on in our life. She is going to accompany me on the next visit (I go about once a month), and perhaps get a lap dance herself, or perhaps just watch me get one. And she is very intrigued with the idea of me getting a lap dance from two girls at once, either by myself or with her there. As long as I tell her about everything!

The point: my wife trusts me 100%, and I trust her 100%. We may be vanilla, but we have a wonderful, glorious relationship. We have no jealousy or possessiveness between us. And that's part of the reason we love each other so much.

Vanilla may not be Neopolitan, but if it's what you and your honey want, and if it makes you happy (TRULY happy, not fake-appearance for the world-happy), and it tastes good to you both, it's wonderful. facelick

My two cents!

(PS, one of my wife's friends asked us recently if we were swingers. She isn't herself, but I found it interesting that she would ask....apparently she thought it strange that we are still so affectionate with each other after 15 years. That's a topic for another post I guess.)

[Amanda69]

I don't think there are any swingers who would say a vanilla relationship is worse or better, just different. Different strokes for different folks. You can have good vanilla relationships and good swinging ones...whatever works for you.

[Spoomonkey]

Originally Posted by Cloud of Love

(PS, one of my wife's friends asked us recently if we were swingers. She isn't herself, but I found it interesting that she would ask....apparently she thought it strange that we are still so affectionate with each other after 15 years. That's a topic for another post I guess.)

I agree with Amanda. Swinging is its own unique approach - and a healthy swinging marriage can be a very positive thing (as your friend apparently recognizes). But, a "vanilla" marriage - if that is truely what makes you guys happy and fulfilled - is just as wonderful.

Just be true to yourselves.

No one here should try to convince you otherwise - and one of the great things about this board is, I doubt anyone will.

Spoomonkey

[ShellyM]

I think it is wonderful that you have such a great marriage! And the fact that you trust each other so much is a blessing in this day and age. I'm happy for you. I don't see anything wrong in what you are doing at all, sounds like fun!

[northindycpl]

Agreement to previous posts, here, too!

It sounds as though you have a fantastic relationship with your wife.

At the end of the day, the marital relationahip you have, whether swinging or not, going to strip clubs or not, is the only thing that is important.

[MrsVan]

Originally Posted by Cloud of Love

The point: my wife trusts me 100%, and I trust her 100%. We may be vanilla, but we have a wonderful, glorious relationship. We have no jealousy or possessiveness between us. And that's part of the reason we love each other so much.

Vanilla may not be Neopolitan, but if it's what you and your honey want, and if it makes you happy (TRULY happy, not fake-appearance for the world-happy), and it tastes good to you both, it's wonderful. facelick

My two cents!

(PS, one of my wife's friends asked us recently if we were swingers. She isn't herself, but I found it interesting that she would ask....apparently she thought it strange that we are still so affectionate with each other after 15 years. That's a topic for another post I guess.)

Cloud of Love,

I have to agree with your comments about Vanilla couples that there are those that can be so completely in love and trust each other to know the other will not stray. Those types of relationships these days are few and far between but when you find that type of relationship it is one to hold on to. MrVan and I before getting into the lifestyle, were one of those couples and still are. Our friends and family (even kids) felt that we are too lovey and because we are so in love with each other we continue to always show affection and our love for each other. We both trust each other completely and if the lifestyle does not work out for us (which we have no complaints yet) we know that we could be a "Vanilla" couple who would be like you and your wife.

There are times when MrVan and I will be out somewhere and see an elderly couple that are holding hands or sitting next to each other at a restaurant on the same side of the booth together, and I tell MrVan that I can see that being us when we get old. We are so much in love and so happy together that for us it would not matter if we stopped being active in the lifestyle our relationship would not change.

It takes a special couple to be in the lifestyle because many spouses cannot see their SO participate in sex with others.

It is great that you and your wife have found a way to explore and to spice up your already existing sex life. Many "vanilla" couples could learn from the both of you because if more would take the time and energy and devote that to their relationship and find ways to keep the sex life hot and wild, there would be more happily married couples and less of all the bs that goes on in relationships.

Great post! Thanks for sharing this with us.

MrsVan

[Cloud of Love]

Originally Posted by ShellyM

I think it is wonderful that you have such a great marriage! And the fact that you trust each other so much is a blessing in this day and age. I'm happy for you. I don't see anything wrong in what you are doing at all, sounds like fun!

Going to the strip club and getting lap dances has actually taught me a lot about myself. . .that I am in control of my sexuality, not the other way around.

[Cloud of Love]

Originally Posted by MrsVan

Cloud of Love,

I have to agree with your comments about Vanilla couples that there are those that can be so completely in love and trust each other to know the other will not stray. Those types of relationships these days are few and far between but when you find that type of relationship it is one to hold on to. MrVan and I before getting into the lifestyle, were one of those couples and still are. Our friends and family (even kids) felt that we are too lovey and because we are so in love with each other we continue to always show affection and our love for each other.

There are times when MrVan and I will be out somewhere and see an elderly couple that are holding hands or sitting next to each other at a restaurant on the same side of the booth together, and I tell MrVan that I can see that being us when we get old. We are so much in love and so happy together that for us it would not matter if we stopped being active in the lifestyle our relationship would not change.

It takes a special couple to be in the lifestyle because many spouses cannot see their SO participate in sex with others.

MrsVan

One of the reasons that we've always been intrigued with swinging is that we SEE ourselves in the descriptions of successful swinging relationships...total honesty and unconditional love, exploration of sexuality without guilt or threatening the relationship, etc. That's the way our relationship is.

And our recent experiments with me getting lap dances just confirms this...they don't make my wife jealous, in fact my descriptions of what happens make her horny. They don't make me feel guilty at all. I was afraid they would, in the sense that a part of me felt guilty about taking advantage of the dancer. But I've had several dancers tell me that they enjoy dancing for me because I treat them with respect...the one I was with last night told me that she enjoyed dancing for me because I caressed her and tried to make her feel good too, rather than just grabbing her like a piece of meat. She even gave me a half-price discount for the VIP room so as to get twice as many dances in with me! That was cool. And when I came home and told my wife that, it made her very horny! No jealousy.

Maybe our relationship is "French Vanilla" rather than regular Vanilla!

You know, I don't know any of you guys....but for some reason I feel like I can share these things with you guys and you'd understand. I can't say that about most of my regular friends. Thanks for being so friendly and open about these issues.

[LetsParty]

In my opinion, I think it all comes down to whether or not both parties in the relationship want the same thing, and whether there is a common ground with what they want.

Using the strip club analogy, all different wives allow all different activities... Kinda like on a scale:

1 - You CAN'T go!
2 - You can go, but with friends only (in a group!)
3 - Enjoy, but NO private dances!!
4 - You can have private dances, but NO contact!!
5 - You can touch her, but NO genitals!!
6 - It's okay if a stripper touches/teases your privates, but NO orgasm!
7 - Do whatever with a stripper, but NO sex or oral sex.
8 - Get that private dance... get a BJ... but NO intercourse!
9 - Go all the way! Have sex with a stripper!!!

So, on this type of scale, it's up to the husband to think about what he wants. (And we can replace stripper (I guess) with any other female.)

In the context of having a wife... some men might be thrilled with #1... or maybe just #2 with the boyz from work.

Some guys might DREAM or DIE to have sex with another woman... Number 9 on the scale.

No one number is right.
No number is wrong.
This is about a person's desire.

THEN, the second part of the excercise is for the wife to pick what she thinks is confortable in her marriage. Maybe she's okay with #4 (which is pretty common, I'm sure...)

So, then, you take the two numbers and you work on the DIFFERENCE between them.

If the husband DESIRES new sex (intercourse) and is a #9 on the scale....

And the wife is at number #2 on the scale ("fine, I let you go, but only for a bachelor party. NO private dances!!")

...well, there is quite a gap there.

That is something that should be discussed in the relationship, I believe.

How to overcome one's "Rules" vs. one's "Desires" would be a great discussion.

But hey, if all the guy wants is a little lap dance without touching. And if that is all the wife is comfortable with.... then GREAT!!!! Problem solved!

I dunno... everything is just so personal.

Whether we're talking about porn or swinging; polyamory or an open relationship; full swap vs. being voyeurs, ultra-orthodox vs. living on a commune....

...it all comes down to the couple in question.

Whatever works for them, works for them!


....my only problem (which I have yet to reconcile) are those zillions of couples I know who think everything is hunky-dory-lovey-dovey-super-swell... when in reality, one of the spouses is banging someone from work. I've seen it happen three times this week alone. Two men and one woman. One on my softball team, one client, and one friend of my wife's who came over for drinks last night... in all three circumstances, "I knew something the spouse didn't know!!! I knew something the spouse didn't know!!!" (sad, actually)

So, whatever the choices... I just hope that all the choices are HONEST choices.

A-men!

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by Cloud of Love

ere. As long as I tell her about everything!

The point: my wife trusts me 100%, and I trust her 100%. We may be vanilla, but we have a wonderful, glorious relationship. We have no jealousy or possessiveness between us. And that's part of the reason we love each other so much.

I think most of us who are happy with this, were all at that point before we were swinging. As for jealousy or possessiveness, you won't KNOW that until you try it. The green eyed monster can be pretty deep in its cave and come out when you least expect it.

[Cloud of Love]

Originally Posted by Chicup

I think most of us who are happy with this, were all at that point before we were swinging. As for jealousy or possessiveness, you won't KNOW that until you try it. The green eyed monster can be pretty deep in its cave and come out when you least expect it.

Yes, this is a good point, and that is why we have decided to wait until the kids are out of the house before pursuing this any further than visiting strip clubs. We don't THINK jealousy would be a problem....it never has so far in our relationship...but do we want to take that bet given the stakes with a young family? At this time, no...we're happy where we're at.

[louie_st]

Originally Posted by MrsVan

Cloud of Love,
There are times when MrVan and I will be out somewhere and see an elderly couple that are holding hands or sitting next to each other at a restaurant on the same side of the booth together, and I tell MrVan that I can see that being us when we get old. We are so much in love and so happy together that for us it would not matter if we stopped being active in the lifestyle our relationship would not change.

MrsVan

For starts great post, a poster marraige for the new term French Vanilla. I also adore this comment about elderly couple holding hands. I have seen two many Lifestyle(swingers) couples look for something new in this lifestyle and forget about what got them there. Too many times a couple who says there ready are just not that. Taken for all that is worth they rush into playing and forget about who they are. If more couples would be so honest and say we could give it up tommorrow and never look back. I have read too many too many posts out here where that is not the case. I like to think that if you think your spouse has doubts then don't do it. If you do not think your husband or wife is in to something 100% then stop and talk about it. Rather then push for something that may wreck the reason you are doing this. Like that stupid movie What About BOB, baby steps, everything should be baby steps. No sense in jumping in the water to find out the current is too fast! Go slow and make sure everything is 100% before moving onto the next phase.

[intuition897]

Cloud, you said it before I could: French Vanilla. I LOVE vanilla! I just hate that cardboard-box-flavoured styrofoam block pseudo-vanilla ice cream that you get for $1.99. It's got to be Double Creme Deluxe French Vanilla. Likewise, some people paint their walls white or "vanilla" beige...because they lack the creativity and courage to do anything else. However...I LOVE it when someone with discriminating taste uses white or beige as an actual colour! The effect is stunning, and difference is clear.

You two sound like Hagen Daazs to me.

[WesternSwing]

I don't think many, if any, swingers would say that vanilla's don't have the quality of relationship that swingers do. Mainly, because we were all vanillas once ourselves and it was because our relationships were so good, and so strong, that we were able to successfully wade into the swinging pool.

Mr. WS

[Cloud of Love]

Originally Posted by intuition897

Cloud, you said it before I could: French Vanilla. I LOVE vanilla! I just hate that cardboard-box-flavoured styrofoam block pseudo-vanilla ice cream that you get for $1.99. It's got to be Double Creme Deluxe French Vanilla. Likewise, some people paint their walls white or "vanilla" beige...because they lack the creativity and courage to do anything else. However...I LOVE it when someone with discriminating taste uses white or beige as an actual colour! The effect is stunning, and difference is clear.

You two sound like Hagen Daazs to me.

Haagen Daazs French Vanilla flavor.....yeah,that's us!

My wife admitted to me last night that it arouses her VERY much to hear about my adventures with the strippers and to know that I had touched another woman sexually. I guess we've added some chocolate syrup to our Haagen Daazs French Vanilla! facelick