I thought this would be a swinging relationship and now it seems she doesn't want it

[neoparadigm]

Synopsis:
(M)(35) me, lots of experience..mosty in Vegas as MFM entertaining couples, playing
most every week. Great times, no drama, endless pussy, everyone happy.
Some mfmf with party girls off the radar, usually lots of drama with mfmf though.

(F)(32) She, mid 30's, did some porn in 20's, some 3 somes with rich east coast guys, party girl in the limo... all that, some escorting, hot chick, never formally swinging though. She is pretty new to the scene of internet meeting, clean, and organized swinging. She's no angel though.

(US) met on AFF a year ago, went to swing club first night out (date), played with
a couple, full swap, even got into DP with the other girl. My girl was cool, we had a great time. I am in love with this new girl and want to proceed with relationship! lol

(What Happened next)

Thinking we will be playing all the time right out of the shoot, she pulls back and
wants monogamy. I never agreed to it, wanting a swinging relationship, thinking
she will come around, I go back to AFF and couples, without telling her, 6 months
later I end the relationship based on wanting to swing.

She cries, claims to be devistated, and we don't talk for two months. Finally we see
eachother agian, have sex one on one but I refuse to get back together unless swinging is in the formula. A week later she calls from a swing club late at night
and lets me listen to her fuck another guy over the phone while I listen from 300
miles away. I love it! she says "are you happy now?" YES I am. We get back together.

We catch eachother in all kinds of lies as we open our email accounts to one another,
she finds out about my swinging with enless couples, I find out she has been fucking
her seperated husband who she claimed was long over with, and that she was also
back hooking as well for extra money at night and doing quite well, we work though
each others lies and BS and decide to get back together and try swinging again.

We go to a club and full swap with a couple from AFF and I have a great time
but she won't play with the other guy.. says she was too attracted to him and could fall for the guy if he called and wanted to cheat on his girlfriend. It was the other
couples first time.

She then agrees to play only once a month with 3 months off a year.

We play again two weeks later at another club with 2 other couples, again great for
me but she plays very little, not offering much to the vibe. Will not do other guys,
only lets them go down on her briefly.

She suggests we change our profile to "I" only play with the couple and she just watches. I don't think this is really what most couples want. Things start looking bad again.

I get invited to a gangbang from a previous couple I have played with and I sneak
off and go.. She finds out and flips out and even calls the couple and tells them I
am not to ever play again with them. My rational is that she is still fucking her ex
when she goes back east every few weeks .. so why should she be playing and not I ?
We clear up the miss communication and move on... I agree to stop all extra play
when she ends communication with her ex. She agrees.

She knows I like DP situations and sets up a play for me while I am out of town.
The couple calls me and I confirm, I call my girl and agree to have her watch via
webcam. She does watch, then freaks out because she thinks that I had no condom
anal with the girl on cam but it was a DV instead. She calls and tells me to stop.
The vibe is broken and we stop. I stop out of respect for my girl.

Most recent we played in a club in the city, thinking I just wanted her to have
a good time, even just to watch, we got there quite late and action was well under way.. we watched some really hot action.. trying to vibe off it..we found a space
just for us.. and played with one another, then this really hot couple that also
came in late walked by and my girl commented... wow ..they were hot...
so I suggested we get up and go into the other room to enjoy that action, just to
watch... I asked the couple and they were cool with us being there.. another older
couple came in as well.. I carefully positioned her just within arms reach of the
other girl from mine so if they felt a connection they could reach to touch..
and I also got fresh towels for us and gave one to the other couple as well..

Nothing happened.. my girl was clearly losing interest in the whole thing..
I suggested we leave and we did.. she was upset with me the whole next day
saying I was not considerate of her and that we should have just played there
alone.. I was ok with that, but felt if we are at an orgy type party we should be
at least able to see and hear other things going on... for the experience..

With a fairly detailed background here... not sure what I should do...
just seems like she is not having a good time... She has plenty of kink in her..
we have hot sex on our own, she can fuck an unattractive guy for money here
and there so I don't get why she can't seem to find a good time at a club or
with other hot couples..

any thoughts or suggestions?

[sexyshelby]

Way too much drama for me...

~SS

[Thrax]

(M)(49) me, a couple years of experience, don't like drama, or people that recount stories as if they were Detective Joe Friday.

Obviously, you two should talk. Sit down. Try it. Come to terms. Either establish a monogamous relationship with or without swinging, or just remain drama-filled fuck-buddies.

Just the facts.

Good luck.

Thrax

[neoparadigm]

It may seem like drama for most.. but this is all very open, honest and a real post here.. I am hoping to get some advice from experienced couples ...

I am very experienced with MFM but not with couple situations much..

Why would you ever want to deprive or restrict the pleasure of your partner?

[BiloxiCouple]

Catching each other in a bunch of lies and cheating and not communicating and listening is not good for a relationship.

You mentioned alot of her faults, what about yours? There appears to be three sides to most stories. Yours, hers and the truth.

Make a decision and move on with it.

Also, I like to know the defitions of some of the words here:

neo-
pref.

New; recent: neonatal.
New and different: Neo-Freudian.
New and abnormal: neoplasm.


par·a·digm ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-dm, -dm)
n.
One that serves as a pattern or model.
A set or list of all the inflectional forms of a word or of one of its grammatical categories: the paradigm of an irregular verb.
A set of assumptions, concepts, values, and practices that constitutes a way of viewing reality for the community that shares them, especially in an intellectual discipline.

Was just curious how your board name is defined. Taken from dictionary.com.

[Amanda69]

Definately three sides to every story but in this case does it matter. Far too much lying, cheating and just general dishonesty with each other. Why not admit you like to fuck each other once in a while but are not meant for being together as a couple.

Couples should be honest, communicate and treat each other with respect I don't see that in anything you have described.

[neoparadigm]

we have both lied to avoid uneeded drama, neither of us like drama, opening up our
e mails to one another was an act of openess and honesty... we are trying to be as open
as possible.. I really question whether that was a good idea.. as we both saw things that
were quite shocking.. I could deal with her antics more than she could with mine..
I like the idea of her being sexually free... even escorting is positive in my opinion
and the money to boot is fine as well.. I never placed judgment on her at all..only
understanding and support.. I told her she need not have to lie to me because I will
not get angry nor jealous..

I know a lot of you here just want to write us off as weak, drama freaks, or whatever,
but we are genuinely looking for advice and guidance from other whom have been down
the road before..

Not here to just hear how great your relationships are... we are here for constructive advice..

thanks

[BiloxiCouple]

Not here to just hear how great your relationships are...

Then you want to hear advice from people with bad relationships? Wouldn't you like to hear how our relationships are more positive and use that to give you advice?

I know a lot of you here just want to write us off as weak, drama freaks, or whatever,but we are genuinely looking for advice and guidance from other whom have been down the road before..

Lots of us have been down that road before, hence the drama problems.

I feel the only thing you want is the sex. No matter how you get it. By the way you spoke of it. I almost considered it bragging.

By the way you wrote about her and yourself there is alot of issues that need to be discussed and listened to. Yours issues go from wanting to be totally open and honest to lying and being "shocked". You are dating a prostitute. How do you not expect her to fuck someone even if it is her separated husband?

If she doesn't want to live your lifestyle. Then it needs to be broken off. And the same goes the other way. If you don't want to be in her lifestyle you need to break it off.

Why didn't you list your faults or problems with this situation. It cannot be all her. You need to evaluate yourself in this relationship to see if it is going to work.

We can give you advice only on what you list here. Ultimately you know what is going on better than we ever will.

One of the best keys to any relationship including the ones on this site is communication and compromise.

For the rest of the details of your post - I think it is alot BS.

[neoparadigm]

thank you for your advice... it is helping to read all these comments regardless of their harshness.. maybe I do have problems..and don't see it.. and the more they are defined
the better.

I see myself as a guy who loves group sex. I don't like to view my girl as a ticket to the game.
I want to be with someone who enjoys it as much as I do... not just using her to get onto
the guest list. Finding a slutty girl to party with is easy. No problem... but most of the girls
I have dated into group play are not all that stable, have drug or alcohol problems, or huge
emotional bagage from childhood abuse, or whatever.. My girl is great in that she is clean
and sober, has a good stable professional day job, is fairly attractive, loves sex, says she loves
me, and we get along great in day to day life, the only thing we ever dissagree on is swinging
issues.. the rest is great, even my family likes her.. she is very diplomatic and respectful of others, and I think a very good communicator for the most part.. I she doesn't want to swing,
I would rather just go play with another girl who does and keep my gal for the relationship part.
I have been perfectly clear with her that I am only interested in an open relationship, where
we swing, I even broke it off, but she came back saying she would do it.. the problem is I don't
think she likes it..

So the question is really..
how can I get her to like it?

She is slutty enough to hook..
she is bi..
she loves anal..
she is very good looking and you'd all love to fuck her believe me..
she does go to the clubs..

If I keep taking her ... will she eventually find a way to like it?

She'll fuck strangers for money, why not cool decent guys at a club?
now that she is with me she doesn't need the money.. she knows this
and I am not trying to boast here..I'm not some loaded rich guy but we don't have to
worry about it at all.. and she has promised me she is not hooking anymore and I don't
bring it up nor did I ever condemn it ... she is the one ashamed of it .. not me..

I just want her to have a good time and not be forced or manipulated into all this in any way..

[neoparadigm]

any other thoughts?

[TeamSoBe]

Originally Posted by neoparadigm

any other thoughts?

Do you think that it's possible that your girl looks at her sex adventures as the kind of partying and experimenting that you do when you're young and not yet committed? Maybe her plan is to get all of that out of her system while she's young and then transform from the whore into the madonna once she picks her ideal long-term guy?

If she has a madonna/whore complex relating either to herself or to you then it seems like the sort of confusion that could keep her from getting into the moment.

[JnCC]

Originally Posted by neoparadigm

any other thoughts?

Yea, I have a couple, but first a question. If you're getting all this action, "lots of experience..mosty in Vegas as MFM entertaining couples, playing most every week" and it's all good action "Great times, no drama, endless pussy, everyone happy" then what do you care if this "Ticket" doesn't want to play, or takes a hike altogether?

Without knowing the answer to that, I don't know whether the problem is that she's a flake, you're a bullshitter extraordinaire, or both.

[neoparadigm]

for one I would never consider her a ticket to play... she is not a flake because she
will go to parties and such, and I am not a bullshitter.. I played with about 50 couples last year, and yes it is great.. she knows all about this, my past playing and she knows it has been great for me.. and I am not all that interested in stopping because
what guy wouldn't like and endless stream of sex with mostly very attractive women.

This is NOT necessarily better on a sex level than what I was doing... but I do enjoy
the day to day companionship of a partner.. and hope to share the amazing swinging
lifestyle that I have been experiencing over the past 4 years or so... I want her to
have great time..enjoy group play and feel healthy and good about herself..

I am just used to playing all the time... once a month is just not enough for me I don't think.. she may think I am obsessed, but I just simply enjoy group sex..more
options, positions, the energy of it, the sound of it all, the visual, scent and on and on.. I think it is great! how am I not supposed to like this? It is hard to understand
why people have a hard time with this.. relax, play and have fun..

[TeamSoBe]

Originally Posted by neoparadigm

It is hard to understand why people have a hard time with this.. relax, play and have fun..

From what you're describing, the only interest that you have outside of work is sport fucking. If you played with 50 couples last year then that's every weekend and it's all that you ever do.

If you were that single-mindedly into, say, going to dog shows, then that would seem pretty strange too. "What? You go to dog shows EVERY SINGLE WEEKEND? You don't ever do anything else? Trip to the movies? Shopping? Golf? No? Every single weekend it's another trip to another dog show?"

She probably imagines more romantic weekends with the guy who she expects to spend her life with, so you might be branding yourself as Short-Term Guy by preferring to spend your Saturday night fucking another woman instead of taking her to the symphony or something.

[NewAndScared]

Sounds like this would be the worst case scenario couple to hook-up with. Ex hooker-porn star trying to help her ego-maniac boyfriend get over the fact that his mommy and daddy didn’t love him enough.

What are we over-compensating for?