Swinging for the wrong reason: I screwed up warning-long

[mysticmind]

I got into swinging for completely the wrong reasons. DH and I split up about 3.5 years ago. He asked me to leave and it came down to him being attracted to another woman. After much soul-searching, I figured maybe he would get it out of his system and all would be ok, so I agreed to a swap. Wrong decision, but of course I didn't know that at the time. This woman was the complete opposite of me. I'm 5'5", 145, 42-32-40 and this gal was around 240, older than him with a huge rear (I wasn't blessed in that department). Of course, this led to insecurity on my part because I feel like he's not attracted to me. The second woman was the same. She and her husband have been our best friends for a few years and we were involved with them off and on for about 2 years. My DH wanted to stop everything which we all agreed to (that was a ground rule, that if anyone was uncomfortable, all would be stopped). Then he didn't want anything even resembling flirting going on, so I have taken great pains to be sure that nothing I do or say could be seen as flirting with any of his friends (he and I have always been big flirts). I don't even speak to the male half of this couple hardly at all. My problem is that he's still talking sh*t with her and referring to her as his girlfriend in front of her and other people. And of course, he lies about it. He says he only went over there to get something out of the other guy's garage and was just there long enough to get whatever he was after, tell her and leave. She would tell me nearly every time he came over exactly what was said and I never confronted him about it until this past weekend. He admitted everything, claims he hasn't touched her etc. I don't know what to believe or how to feel. I've told him that I feel betrayed and since he's lied to me about all this seemingly little stuff, I couldn't believe him about whether or not they were sexually active. I feel betrayed. I am still all for the lifestyle under certain circumstances (not ours). I just don't know what to do. I'm getting older and learning what I want out of life, and a liar who isn't attracted to me ain't it. I'm reasonably good-looking and intelligent and still young enough to find someone who wants me for me. Is this all my fault? Am I wrong for setting boundaries this late in the game? He swears he's gonna change (heard that one before) and he wants me, but I just don't know. At times I feel like I'm just a trophy for him because the type of woman he really wants wouldn't be socially acceptable in his eyes.

[CA91709]

Mr. CA writing this post...
If DH wants to be with a 'greater woman' instead of you, then it seems like you have a choice to make. You can continue to be his trophy woman, or you can move on. It's always a tough and agonizing decision to make. But it sounds to me that he isn't treating you right, or with respect. His hypocrisy and `do as I say, not as I do' attitude doesn't even work on kids, much less on an adult whom he should be in love with.

If he truly wants someone with a backdeck that everyone can use as a peeknuckle card table on Saturday night, so be it. I don't believe you need to stick around as his `front'.

I wish I could be of more help but it sounds like you have a choice to make. Do it now while your still young.

[intuition897]

I think the thing that got me was the old double standard deal. He doesn't really expect to get away with that, does he? Not sure if I'm getting the whole picture or not, but it seems to me that he's enjoying the sneaking around part. Whether this other woman is telling you the truth or not is debatable. But whether they have had sex yet or not, the intent is clearly there. He'd certainly like to! And yet he tells you that your flirting with anyone else is unacceptable?? Uh-huh.... right. What's unacceptable is being lied to, regardless of who started what.

I can't help wondering if perhaps his view of sex in general isn't needing a little adjusting? Worthy, pure, chaste woman vs. the deliciously filty slut? It's a myth that women are either one or the other. Fact is we're all a little of both. It's really too bad that he sees sex as something that should be horded, hidden and kept all to himself in this way.

My best advice would be to spend some time in your favorite thinking spot, thinking about the things that you want and value in this relationship with him. Dig for the truths. You'll need to lay out for him exactly what is and is not acceptable to you, let him know the choice is his, and allow him to make it. Assure him this is not an ultimatum, and that you have no desire to babysit him for the rest of your natural lives to keep his wanderlust under control. He needs to step up to the plate and act like a grown-up in a grown-up relationship. This is you asking him to do the right thing, not the easy thing, which would be to tell you what he wants and needs from the relationship also. You both need to lay it all out on the table, every scrap of it, come what may. The truth will make itself known eventually; you can spend years languishing in a less-than-healthy relationship, or have it all out in the open right here and now and whatever will be will be. Relationship-altering discussions are never fun, but they need to happen.

[tncinmd]

You know the one about having your cake and eating it, too ? Well, looks like he's going for it.

Nope, not your fault. We're not in the marriage counseling business. We know you're smart enough to make your own decisions.

[2BwthUorNot]

Originally Posted by mysticmind

I got into swinging for completely the wrong reasons. DH and I split up about 3.5 years ago. He asked me to leave and it came down to him being attracted to another woman. After much soul-searching, I figured maybe he would get it out of his system and all would be ok, so I agreed to a swap. Wrong decision, but of course I didn't know that at the time. This woman was the complete opposite of me. I'm 5'5", 145, 42-32-40 and this gal was around 240, older than him with a huge rear (I wasn't blessed in that department). Of course, this led to insecurity on my part because I feel like he's not attracted to me. The second woman was the same. She and her husband have been our best friends for a few years and we were involved with them off and on for about 2 years. My DH wanted to stop everything which we all agreed to (that was a ground rule, that if anyone was uncomfortable, all would be stopped). Then he didn't want anything even resembling flirting going on, so I have taken great pains to be sure that nothing I do or say could be seen as flirting with any of his friends (he and I have always been big flirts). I don't even speak to the male half of this couple hardly at all. My problem is that he's still talking sh*t with her and referring to her as his girlfriend in front of her and other people. And of course, he lies about it. He says he only went over there to get something out of the other guy's garage and was just there long enough to get whatever he was after, tell her and leave. She would tell me nearly every time he came over exactly what was said and I never confronted him about it until this past weekend. He admitted everything, claims he hasn't touched her etc. I don't know what to believe or how to feel. I've told him that I feel betrayed and since he's lied to me about all this seemingly little stuff, I couldn't believe him about whether or not they were sexually active. I feel betrayed. I am still all for the lifestyle under certain circumstances (not ours). I just don't know what to do. I'm getting older and learning what I want out of life, and a liar who isn't attracted to me ain't it. I'm reasonably good-looking and intelligent and still young enough to find someone who wants me for me. Is this all my fault? Am I wrong for setting boundaries this late in the game? He swears he's gonna change (heard that one before) and he wants me, but I just don't know. At times I feel like I'm just a trophy for him because the type of woman he really wants wouldn't be socially acceptable in his eyes.

fruitcake

this story appears a bit odd. It seems like past tense then again it seems present tense. you certainly need to get your safe word into play. He had agreed to not get involved yet, he did. what changed his mind? did it happen suddenly so you didn't have time to talk about it? did the relationship start with his friends or yours? when did he lie to you? about what? if the two girls are talking, why don't you believe her? do you think she is lying too? All trol I don't think you have enough info to pass judgement. ask him if he wants you or her straight up and trust him. calling a woman "girlfriend" sounds like he picked it up from you. I don't know on this one other than if you are that attractive, maybe you should write to me and we could discuss it over a bottle of wine

[charms123]

Our two nickels... (inflation...)

STOP! And get some counseling. We are not therapists so we don’t know if your marriage (albeit confusing) is salvageable or not. But you two need some help. Or you do to make a decision.

Run don’t walk to your nearest yellow pages for help!

Good Luck

M&N

[mysticmind]

Thanks y'all! I did lay a good bit out on the line for him regarding what I need in a relationship and what I'm no longer willing to accept, so hopefully things will get better. In reply to 2B, this whole thing boils down to him wanting to have his cake and eat it too. We did discuss things, and I thought we were on the same page regarding any play that was going on. He all of the sudden decided that he was too jealous for me to do anything, so he called a stop to everything around the first part of this year. I am not sure whether or not to trust her because she knew what the agreement was, agreed to stop, and then she went right back to the flirting and God only knows what else. Her husband approached me after we all had agreed to stop and I turned him down because that's not part of the deal. These were our friends, and he's always lied about insignificant things, but sometimes they were significant. He would never tell me if they had had sex and if I asked, his and her answers wouldn't always line up. He went over there the other day with another friend of his and point blank said "This is my girlfriend" to the other guy, but of course, he was "just kidding". I don't give a damn if he was kidding or not, this hurts me, I've told him that.
ETA: for the record, any play actually stopped sometime in January or February of this year.

[BodyScape02]

Change the locks ...put his stuff out on the lawn and serve his ass with divorce papers ( and name her as the reason... )

Let him see if the other guy is willing to take him in. He has totally disrespected you and you have degraded yourself in an attempt to keep something not worth keeping.

I lived through that once. Don't give him a chance to hide all of your assets... Do what you have to do. Recover and move on.

I know that sounds cold...but been there done all the wrong things for the right reason and got royaly screwed in the process... Learn from my mistakes.

If he gave a fig about you he would not have been so blatant or so controlling.

Run and get a great lawyer and let him deal with the lawyer...your too emotionally easy to control.

I mean you bought the bull lock stock and barrell !!!!

You said:

"he's always lied about insignificant things, but sometimes they were significant. He would never tell me if they had had sex and if I asked, his and her answers wouldn't always line up. He went over there the other day with another friend of his and point blank said "This is my girlfriend" to the other guy, but of course, he was "just kidding". I don't give a damn if he was kidding or not, this hurts me, I've told him that.
ETA: for the record, any play actually stopped sometime in January or February of this year.

Quit kidding yourself. He is a liar... it is not little and it never did stop and you are being publically humiliated!

Sorry for the blunt advice but... I wish someone had given it to me. Get strong and get out!

Best wishes

Ms Body...

[2BwthUorNot]

I Strongly but Humbly Disagree BodyScape02

Being a member, I am a bit taken back by the harsh words of advise. They are not at all becomming of a member and not ay all helpful to this woman in your circumstance. You sound very bitter and, may I add, I IMHO, read it (yorur advise) come out of personal hate and anger. It doen't read at all like the understanding and helpful nature of these forums. I wouldn't be surprised if this alone doesn't generate many posts. It's a subject of it's own kind. Stop, take a breath, count to ten or do whatever it takes to get away from the personal hurt. You can never understand another, hear the meaning, forgive and be remorsefull or feel and be touched by/from the heart if you closeit or your mind. How can you ever pass judgement like that with talking about it. How can you ever understand what it is that really happened if the first knee jurk reaction
comes from emotion rather than understanding. Lets just say the advise is taken and acted upon. The ramifications, aftermath, reverberations, could be felt by generations yet to come. Peoples lives would change and the individual emotional fallout could change personalities and outlook on life and living. this we could not help to see passed on to those in our everyday lives. The broken hearts, souls, individuals and the families of those involved would be hurt in every sector of their lives. You must show restraint, patience, tolerance, understanding, and have compassion and empthay, and sympthay inorder to truely understand what this woman is going through. All is not what it appears. It can look so your way if you have percieved hurt before. It changes people lives if we can not pull down the layers of our individual pains and humble ourselves by doing so.
Only then we can listen, truely listen to somebody elses' percieved wrong. then we can give and take advice, discuss the problems, and arive at the solutions. It's beautiful outside today and I'm going to enjoy it too. Why don't you do the same. We may come to a different conclusion after we get in touch with our soul, inner being or inner spirit, or with whatever provides your internal voice and personal guidance. Nothing is as you see it. It is your choice. Only you can can change the way you percieve things.
Doesn't it feel like you have been wronged. Don't trust all your feelings. digest them and understand them; never act on them or give advice from that point of view. We all love you and understand where you are comming from. You have well meaning intensions.

Originally Posted by BodyScape02

Change the locks ...put his stuff out on the lawn and serve his ass with divorce papers ( and name her as the reason... )

Let him see if the other guy is willing to take him in. He has totally disrespected you and you have degraded yourself in an attempt to keep something not worth keeping.

I lived through that once. Don't give him a chance to hide all of your assets... Do what you have to do. Recover and move on.

I know that sounds cold...but been there done all the wrong things for the right reason and got royaly screwed in the process... Learn from my mistakes.

If he gave a fig about you he would not have been so blatant or so controlling.

Run and get a great lawyer and let him deal with the lawyer...your too emotionally easy to control.

I mean you bought the bull lock stock and barrell !!!!

You said:



Quit kidding yourself. He is a liar... it is not little and it never did stop and you are being publically humiliated!

Sorry for the blunt advice but... I wish someone had given it to me. Get strong and get out!

Best wishes

Ms Body...

[2BwthUorNot]

It it rarely the problems that are our demise, it is how we react to them. I haven't reacted to some of my own too well. I should know

Originally Posted by BodyScape02

Change the locks ...put his stuff out on the lawn and serve his ass with divorce papers ( and name her as the reason... )

Let him see if the other guy is willing to take him in. He has totally disrespected you and you have degraded yourself in an attempt to keep something not worth keeping.

I lived through that once. Don't give him a chance to hide all of your assets... Do what you have to do. Recover and move on.

I know that sounds cold...but been there done all the wrong things for the right reason and got royaly screwed in the process... Learn from my mistakes.

If he gave a fig about you he would not have been so blatant or so controlling.

Run and get a great lawyer and let him deal with the lawyer...your too emotionally easy to control.

I mean you bought the bull lock stock and barrell !!!!

You said:



Quit kidding yourself. He is a liar... it is not little and it never did stop and you are being publically humiliated!

Sorry for the blunt advice but... I wish someone had given it to me. Get strong and get out!

Best wishes

Ms Body...

[mysticmind]

Ok, I believe it may be over. I'm not sure yet what I plan to do, but I found out today that they have been calling each other very frequently (especially when I'm at work) and both have lied to their spouses about it. I *think* that this has taken on an emotional component for him that I can't live with. Yet all I can do is ask why. I have tried to be everything for him and it has just bitten me on the ass.

.

[EvilMJ]

It is good that you spoke to him about what you are willing and not willing to put up with. If he follows those rules and stops lying to you and saying hurtful things then wonderful. I think you also need to address this issue of whether or not he is attracted to you with him.

2BwthUorNot you speak of forgiveness, and I agree that everyone deserves a chance to correct their wrongs, but I think the point Bodyscape makes is vaild point as well. You can only be played the fool so long until it starts to eat you up inside. How may times can you forgive someone for steping on your heart, lying to you..etc. I think there is a fine line here and it is up to mysticmind to find it. If he is good to his word and starts treating you like you should be treated, with respect and love, then there is a chance for you. However, if he continues to make you feel undesirable and lying about even what you consider the little things how long can you go on. As much as I love to look at the wonderful side of life, there is a dark side that has to be acknowledged as well.

What I do think is that you two should not be swinging PERIOD. I personally would also break off the relationship with this couple. It doesn't seem like she is much of a friend if she continues to carry on with your husband and then tell you all about it. A real friend would have put a stop to things when you guys decided to end the swinging part of your relationship.

[Chicup]

Originally Posted by mysticmind

Ok, I believe it may be over. I'm not sure yet what I plan to do, but I found out today that they have been calling each other very frequently (especially when I'm at work) and both have lied to their spouses about it. I *think* that this has taken on an emotional component for him that I can't live with. Yet all I can do is ask why. I have tried to be everything for him and it has just bitten me on the ass.

.

Looks like bodyscapes advice was pretty good after all.

[mysticmind]

Originally Posted by EvilMJ

I personally would also break off the relationship with this couple. It doesn't seem like she is much of a friend if she continues to carry on with your husband and then tell you all about it. A real friend would have put a stop to things when you guys decided to end the swinging part of your relationship.

Truer words were never spoken (written). I'm hoping to get some time alone with him tonight to discuss things. I attempted to earlier, but he just got defensive.

[CA91709]

Mr. CA...
I hope it works out for you mysticmind. Follow your heart, but don't dismiss the mind.