What if the club gets raided?

[JustAskJulie]

This is a question I received:

Of all things...after readiing the book "Lifestyle" one of the
major concerns my wife has is " what if it gets raided". In the
book it makes reference to this happening at times at clubs.What can I
tell her?
---------------------------------

I'm interested to see if anyone has any thoughts on this subject. Has
anyone ever been at a club when it's been raided?

Julie http://www.swingersboard.com

[NJ Couple]

Why would a club be raided? There's no prostitution going on, and any decent club will prohibit drugs, and as far as i know, most clubs don't even serve alcohol.

[JustAskJulie]

Originally posted by NJ Couple:
Why would a club be raided? There's no prostitution going on, and any decent club will prohibit drugs, and as far as i know, most clubs don't even serve alcohol.

It has happened on many occasions across the US. Just because you
aren't doing anything illigal at the club doesn't mean that some people
won't say you ARE. The cops can come in at any time and detain
everyone there for whatever reason they come up with "public nudity",
"adultery", whatever. Chances are it won't hold but it can cause
problems.

Other problems that have occured (as with one club in MI) is the press.
AT an off-premise club in MI, the local FOX News affiliate managed to
sneak into the party with a camera and broadcast what they saw (which
was nothing) and tried to tell the public what was going on. This of
course led to the members of that club being quite scarred to attend
again.

Some states have actually outlawed swinging, in most states it is
illigal indirectly because adultery is illigal. Remember the US is a very
prudish country, once you marry you aren't supposed to have sex with
other people.

This is why house parties are becoming more and more popular again,
with advertising only being done via word of mouth.

Most clubs do make every effort to make sure that there is no reason
for anyone from the outside to be able to come in and cause problems,
but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. All it takes is an "anonymous"
tip from a competing club (yes clubs do compete) to the police for them
to come in during a party and cause problems.

In many states, there is a law against 'Pandering'. Pandering is defined as: A person who provides the means of helping to satisfy the ignoble ambitions or desires, vices, etc. of another. As you can see, the owners of a club could possibly be held accountable for actions of the members. This is the reason there are Off-premise clubs.

Personally, we are not into the club 'scene', for this and other reasons. But I must admit that it is a scary thing to think that you might wind up on TV as a member of a 'Sex Gang'.

Does this answer your question?

Husband of CyberMWCouple

[NittanyLion]

Is there a website with ACCURATE information about the various laws, state by state, that concern swing clubs and swinging in general? And what about local ordinances? I can easily imagine a district attorney or sheriff here in rural Central Pennsylvania raiding a club for some cheap publicity.

[Alura]

Hmmm. Seems to us that it would be best to stay away from the clubs just before elections. That's when this sort of raid usually takes place. Why do Americans insist on electing the type of people who are more than willing to stoop to power politics?

Alura

[JustAskJulie]

I don't know of any websites with info regarding such laws from state to state. In most cases your club owners would have already done their homework and made sure that whatever they are doing is completely legal.

However, even if what they (and you) are doing is completely legal they can still come up with reasons to go after a club. And it does happen all the time.

Another issue is the media. I've seen many cases where someone from the media has snuck into a swingers club with a camera and reported on what they saw. That usually tends to freak the club members out and scare them away for a while.

I'd say one of your best bets is to stick with a club that is pretty well established (aka been around a while) or one that they are associated with. It seems like sometimes newer club owners/hosts don't quite realize some of the things they do to cause themselves problems. For instance, one club that I know of that started recently actually INVITED someone from a news station to cover their party. Grantd we've seen some fairly impartial articles lately posted here but in general that doesn't happen. That invite led to the police in the area knowing about the party, which had them sitting just down the street from the hall after the parties just waiting to pull people over on their way out. It also scared a lot of the members to the point where the following party or two was pretty dead and those that were there were scared to do anything other than sit at tables and drink.

It is a shame that people even have to worry about going out to a club because it might get raided. We have done a lot of research on this subject and this is what we've found:
* On Premise. Off-Premise and house parties are all susceptable to raids.
* Length of time a club has been established doesn't affect one's chances to be raided.
* Most raids aren't by the ABC or alcohol related.
* Many of the raids happened because other clubs initiated an investigation
* It doesn't matter how a club is set up ALL clubs are possible targets.
* There are only 2 places where "swing clubs" are currently forbidden: Phoenix & Hollywood Fl (both bans are currently being fought in court)

That is the bad news... The good news is that there has been many recent victories that should discourage future raids. Club owners are also getting smarter and better information is being shared to help prevent these raids. We recommend joining the International Lifestyle Association (ILA). Their website is <a href="http://www.theILA.org)." target="_blank">www.theILA.org).</a> It is the industries only non-profit trade association and they are the only lifestyle organization with a law enforcement outreach program and that work to help clubs that have been raided and are fighting legal battles.

There is information on this site on what to do when caught in a raid. They also send out information to all clubs to help them protect against raids.

Knowledge, sharing information and supporting organizations like the ILA i sthe best defense against a raid at your local club.

Bob & Tess
The French Connection

[JustAskJulie]

Thanks for the great info Bob & Tess. Interesting that swing clubs are banned in Phoenix considering how many swing clubs that exist there.

[Flori_DAMAN]

We went to the club that was raided about 4 months after the fact. We did not know at the time what had happened there. We hooked up with a couple there. He worked at FOX broadcasting (not a reporter),and their interest was piqued by the story....just thought I would share that tidbit. John

[JustAskJulie]

This was a very old question that never got any response, but witht he recent raids that have happened I wanted to bump it up and see if we could get some feedback from anyone who might have been involved in a raid.

[BiCoupleNJ]

When I ran my swing club in Hawaii, I was still enlisted in the Air Force. Most of my club members (there were 300 couples when I took over... 3,000 couples when I handed the reins over to my successor) were military, but I also had police, politicians, newspaper folks, government folks... people from all walks of life. Luckily, we never faced any form of political harassment.

Those clubs that have been raided recently (and especially the one in NYC) have all had more than just legal proceedings on their premises. Although one can argue that it is nearly impossible to keep drugs out of a club, the difference in the NYC club is that the employees were allegedly selling drugs. And there was more than just sex between consenting adults - whereas my club was an on-premise club, I never hired anyone in to perform sex acts of any sort. The NYC club was allegedly involved in some form of prostitution, primarily for the single men that were in attendance.

I have not heard of other clubs that were raided recently except for the NYC club from 2 or 3 weeks ago. If there were others, can someone list where they were located? Having worked in management in a swing club and having known dozens and dozens of other club owners or managers, I feel confident in saying that, in 9 of 10 situations, the local law enforcement does not harass swing clubs/parties, so long as they do not get out of hand and do not allow illegal or illicit activities on site.

I would bet that most, if not all, of the clubs that have recently been raided were those that allowed illegal/illicit activities to occur on premise. I don't think that you would have seen them raided otherwise.

My 2 cents worth...
Jerry

[EternallySingle]

Public interests groups, if they hear about something they feel will lower property values or attract "the wrong crowd" will notify local news crews, who are too happy to raid a sexually oriented business for higher ratings. Its doesn't even have to be a sex business. I read about a sporting goods store in either Utah or Idaho that closed and moved to a different city because a group complained that they sold thong bikinis and didn't want their granddaughters buying them. Another group, with the help of the police and sheriff's department in Pierce County, tried to open a 15-21 dance club but was shot down by a group that didn't want teenagers congregating in one spot after dark. Its not the same thing, but complaints by enough people are just as powerful as breaking an actual law. It can't put you in jail, but it can send you to court and put you out of business.

[BiCoupleNJ]

So much for a free country... seems that too many zealots are holding the purse strings to the government... and making the government follow their wishes - no teen gatherings... no sporting goods stores with thong bikinis... no social clubs for consenting adults....

My forefathers came to this country in 1699. The first of them landed in Perth Amboy, NJ, about 20-25 miles from where I live now, because Scotland was as bad as the rest of the UK and Europe - bias based on religion, the caste system & other mundane and trivial things. Considering this country was based on freedoms and the ability to choose that which you felt was acceptable to you, one can argue - strongly I might add - that we have become what was once our own worst enemy - censors, bigots, zealots & the like.

Maybe it is time to build a new Mayflower...

Jerry

[Vjklander]

We've been in two raids at bdsm events. One in NJ everyone just had to not be nekkid or actually make physical contact with anyone and it was allowed to go on (a 3 day event no less). The other was in philly where everyone had to leave, they used fire code violations. Both events we were vending at so it kinda stank. Recently, the ChristNazi's put the kabosh on the Black Rose event planned for Ocean City Md. Basically, the clerk of the liquor board threatened to pull the hotel's liquor license if we were there. Keep in mind we would have had the entire hotel and it would be closed to the public. Since we don't want to harm those who support us we decided to move the event to a friendlier environment. So PG county got our $300,000 + in their economy instead of OC. And the event was a great success.
A big plug here:
Anyone who cares about their freedoms should check out this site:
http://www.ncsfreedom.org/
These folks are a great resource when dealing with cops, media, and others.
J