Swinging with Family Present

[ionsawmill]

Originally posted by bill&sabrina
Even swingers can have a narrow view of what married couple do. A lady that attends the same club Sabrina and I go to found this out over the weekend. She went to the club without her husband, but with a man that her and her husband play with quite regularly. You would have thought that she went to the church ice cream social with a man other than her husband instead of a swing club. You have entered dangerous waters, but it isn't something that with strength you can't get out of. I truly do hope for the best for you.
Bill

One of the funniest things I've seen so far in my limited experience with swingers was at an off-premises club. An older woman brought her 21 year old son as her date. It was his birthday and her gift to him was a night out at the club. I doubt seriously that she intended to swing with another couple with him as her partner, but the reaction from the members of the club was one of shock and disgust. That really brought home the idea that most swingers really aren't that much more open minded than straight couples.

[bill&sabrina]

Originally posted by ionsawmill

One of the funniest things I've seen so far in my limited experience with swingers was at an off-premises club. An older woman brought her 21 year old son as her date. It was his birthday and her gift to him was a night out at the club. I doubt seriously that she intended to swing with another couple with him as her partner, but the reaction from the members of the club was one of shock and disgust. That really brought home the idea that most swingers really aren't that much more open minded than straight couples.

Makes me remember the old saying "The more things change. The more they stay the same." I posted to the thread Telling the kids. That I will tell our children when they are mature enough to handle it that I will tell our children about swinging, and us doing it. The reaction was pretty much just what you described. I had never thought about taking them to a club when they are old enough and introducing them to swinging that way. I might take that into consideration. I am sure that comment and if I do it will chap some asses, but so be it.

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by ionsawmill
... but the reaction from the members of the club was one of shock and disgust. That really brought home the idea that most swingers really aren't that much more open minded than straight couples.

Shock and disgust?!? My God, some people are just SOOO intolerant these days. Or maybe they were all PTL members undercover.

Dan

[Flori_DAMAN]

I will gaureentee (i always mispell that damn word), that by the time your kids are 21, if you've been swinging much they know anyhow....lol.

John

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by Flori_DAMAN
I will gaureentee (i always mispell that damn word), that by the time your kids are 21, if you've been swinging much they know anyhow....lol.

John

I can guarantee the majority of even the most ardent swingers would find the idea of taking one's child to a club repulsive. Knowing and participating together are two different species.

Frankly, I'm having a tough time even believing the story anyway. Then again, Jerry Springer's made millions from watered down DNA.

Dan

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by bill&sabrina


I had never thought about taking them to a club when they are old enough and introducing them to swinging that way. I might take that into consideration. I am sure that comment and if I do it will chap some asses, but so be it.

Good idea. You can even supply the condoms. Do they sell them in family packs?

You know, many in the swinging community are trying their damndest to convince the general public we're not a bunch of sexual deviants, and now we have people in here suggesting it's a good idea to actively involve your kids.

If I ever run for office, remind me not to hire you for campaign manager.

Dan

[Flori_DAMAN]

OH Dan,

I have no problem believing the story.

I was attending a club for a few years that there kids were quite involved in. The daughter was a real good looking young lady. There son was the DJ. The kids didn't swing, but they acutally had the daughters wedding at a swinging event!

Hey there are different strokes for different folks..

John

[ionsawmill]

Originally posted by CanadianCouple
Frankly, I'm having a tough time even believing the story anyway.

OK. I really wasn't a Scout, but I can't necessarily swear to God. I'm sure some of the other board posters were there that night. (You know who you are.) It was Memorial Day weekend in Biloxi, 2002 at Close Encounters, also known as the night the air scrubbers shut down and you couldn't see the bar from the dance floor.* The big bike thingy was in town and the place was packed. I met more people in the line for the bathroom than I did the rest of the night.

*Just a little inside joke for anyone who knows the layout at Close Encounters.

[bill&sabrina]

Originally posted by Canadian Couple

You know, many in the swinging community are trying their damndest to convince the general public we're not a bunch of sexual deviants, and now we have people in here suggesting it's a good idea to actively involve your kids.

I want to know how you are going to convince the general public that we aren't sexual deviants if we are to ashamed and embarrassed to let our kids know what we do, and maybe even guide them if they show an interest in it also. I can't wait to see how you decide to degrade me for asking this, and stating my opinion.

Bill

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by bill&sabrina



I want to know how you are going to convince the general public that we aren't sexual deviants if we are to ashamed and embarrassed to let our kids know what we do, and maybe even guide them if they show an interest in it also. I can't wait to see how you decide to degrade me for asking this, and stating my opinion.

Bill

Well Bill, I guess I'm one of those old fogeys who believes there are some things that should be off limits, and that includes parental/child sexual involvement, even if only attending a club together. I also believe there's apparently very little or no limits set in your household regarding your kids, and while that's every parent's right, it does your kids no good whatsoever. Beginning with and since the '60's, when this kind of parenting became vogue, teens have sunk into an abyss of self destructive behaviour unheard of previously. And with people like you, your solution is more of the same.

Go ahead and take your kids to the local swinger's haven, Bill. Make certain they get that quality guidance they'll need to embark on a successful career in swinging.

Dan

[CanadianCouple]

Originally posted by bill&sabrina

I want to know how you are going to convince the general public that we aren't sexual deviants if we are to ashamed and embarrassed to let our kids know what we do, and maybe even guide them if they show an interest in it also.
Bill

I had to re-read that quote to get the full import of it.

Bill, do you really believe the public will become more accepting of our lifestyle if each of us begin involving our own children in it? To the point of actually taking them to the nearest swinger's club? I can't believe you actually buy into that.

Dan

[bill&sabrina]

Well Dan you might be right about a lot of what you said about me, but you are wrong about one thing. My children do have limits set for them. I agree with you that when limits aren't set that children suffer. Can you believe it we think alike on a subject. The goddamn world must be coming to an end if we agree on something. What I don't obviously agree with you on is that some things should be kept private. I will tell our children about swinging and that we do it, but if they don't express an interest in it that will be as far as it goes. I want to be a parent that guides my children through life instead of leaving them to go it alone. Even if that means telling and showing them what swinging is.

Bill

[ionsawmill]

I'm deeply sorry for the off topic post which started this minor flame-war. I was not suggesting that anyone start swinging with their kids or that anyone change their policies with regard to informing their kids of their lifestyle. I was merely relating the story of something I saw as intolerant, considering that the club was an off-premises club and the "kid" in question, if you'll notice my earlier post, was an adult of 21 years.

I ask that the forum moderator please move this and all other off-topic posts to another thread, if that is possible.

[CanadianCouple]

Ion, you have nothing to feel sorry about. You chose to post information about a woman taking her 21 year old son to a swing club, and that prompted comments which branched off into other areas. That's how converstations are born and expand.

The "kid" may be 21, but he's still her son. I'm 45, and I can tell you I'd feel nothing short of incestuous about participating in anything even remotely sexual with my 76 year old mother. Bill has this inner compulsion to share anything and everything with his kids, including the fact their parents have sex with other people. I also believe the majority of people reading this thread agree with me, but have chosen not to join in the fray. That's fine, it's their choice to either participate or simply observe.

Playing amateur psychologist, I still think Bill is unconsciously seeking approval with what he and his wife do, even from their own children. It belies his assertion to the contrary.

Dan

[ionsawmill]

I would have to say that I agree with Bill. I for one would love to be honest with my co-workers, my friends, my family, etc. about swinging. For that matter, there are a lot of people I would love to be honest with about other things in my life. I wish we lived in a world where I could be openly Atheist at work and not lose my job; where I could be honest about the lifestyle with my friends and not be thought a freak; where I could openly bisexual with my family and not be disowned. If Bill has the guts to let the world, including his children, know about the parts of his life that we are all afraid to share, then I think that deserves applause.

Like Bill, I think that children need only need to know what is appropriate for their age and maturity and the current thinking in child psychology is to tell children the truth when they ask for it, but only when they ask for it. Bill obviously, from his statements, hasn't been open with his children about swinging. He only says that he will "tell [his] children about swinging and that we do it, but if they don't express an interest in it that will be as far as it goes". I can see nothing wrong with that.

My own parents were not open about their sexual histories, including the fact that my father had a child out of wedlock during a previous relationship. When I found out, in my early 20's, I wasn't shocked by his behavior, but I was hurt that he didn't trust me to understand the situation. Once I understood what had happened to him, I understood so much about why he had raised me the way he did.

I can understand the you would "feel nothing short of incestuous about participating in anything even remotely sexual with [your] 76 year old mother" but I have to tell you that if you have children, your mother has a pretty good idea that you have sex. Knowing that you exist, I would say that odds are your mother had sex too, and you know it. Is having that knowledge incestuous? Is it incestuous to admit that your parents and your children are sexual beings just like you?

The mother in question at this probably knew that her son was already having sex and wanted to introduce her son to an option that most 21 year olds don't have: a safer alternative to out and out promiscuity*. For all I know, she may have just wanted to take him out and get him drunk on his 21st, and that was her favorite watering hole. Who knows.

My question would be this: what would happen if one of your children showed up at a swinger function with his or her significant other while you were already there, having independently explored the idea of swinging without knowing you were a swinger? Playing amateur psychologist, I would say that you are either embarrased by your involvement in the lifestyle, or you've raised your children to be intolerant of people with different ideas about what is right and wrong sexually and you fear their disapproval.

Like many people, I don't tell everyone about my interest in swinging because I fear the repercussions; loss of job, friends, family. While you may not agree with Bill, I think we can both agree that of the three of us, he is probably less likely to end up in an embarassing situation or suffer a heart attack from the stress of living a double life.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I don't think Bill was suggesting having sex with our children, having sex in the same room with our children, or discussing all the gory details of our sex lives with our children. Bill simply believes what he is doing is right and good and is intent on raising his children to believe like he does. That's what we expect all parents to do.




*(due to the lower incedence of STD's in the swinger community)